[bede-x]

I'm not sure that artsy games do better on PS3, with Limbo and Braid doing really well on the 360. I doubt they would have done better, if they had launched on PS3 first.

However, Sony as a developer obviously caters far better to the artistic crowd, either publishing or developing games such as Ico, Flower, Journey and others. They just seem to experiment more that Microsoft's studios do. I would love to see Microsoft do titles like LocoRoco, Gravity Rush or Last Guardian, but feel that's unlikely to happen.

[EuropeOG]

So 360/Wii owners prefer proper games. PC has all arty games beat though.

[Meisadragon]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this isn't the first time this has been brought up. I remember after Alan Wake there were people saying it would have sold better as a ps3 game.

Yeah, but Alan Wake didn't get exceptional reviews, and then Rockstar released Red Dead Redemption during that period. It's really hard to say how it would have performed. Too many things to consider.

On topic, it's true that Sony experiments a lot and those games are usually received very well on the PS3, but unless they release it on other platforms as well -- it is impossible to know how it would have done there.

[Carl]

Yeah i think Sony are definitely more willing to publish, make deals for, and market "different" games. As proved by their incubation deal with ThatGameCompany (and now Giant Sparrow), and publishing games like Datura and Heavy Rain.

TGC's games and Heavy Rain have all sold well on PS3, but i don't know as if that means that PS3 owners are more likely to buy them than 360/Wii owners. But i definitely think Sony are more interested in them than MS/Nintendo

[Petrichor]

I only make games on the PS3. I make artsy games. Therefore PS3 owners are more likely to like artsy games than Wii or 360 owners.

Logic out the window on this one. Release fl0w, flower and journey on 360 and compare sales figures, and then he might be able to qualify his argument with some actual evidence, but until then his claims are completely baseless.

Heavy Rain may have sold well, but you could just as easily point to the pitiful sales of Bioshock PS3 as evidence against this argument.

[boingball]

well, without sales numbers it is only some marketing bullshit.

But it is fair to assume that the Wii crowd consists mainly of Nintendo-Fans plus Wii Sports/Fit casuals. The former will buy classic Nintendo titles on the marketplace and the latter ones will probably buy only retail shovelware if they buy anything at all.

The 360 crowd consists mainly of Halo/CoD FPS shooter fans plus Kinect casuals. So the same applies for both groups as on Nintendo.

The PS3 crowd does not really have that many casuals, at least Move is much less successfull then Waggle or Kinect. And the Sony fanboys are much more diverse than Nintendo/Microsoft fanboys (GoW, UC, R&C, ... are selling less than Halo/Mario games).

Journey would have failed hard on the Wii. On the 360 DD games seem to sell more than on the PS3, so it is difficult to say whether Journey would have sold more/less on the 360 than on the PS3. Though Journey is selling hot in Japan and the 360 is dead in Japan, so at least there the PS3 is the correct system to sell it on.

So this theory might be correct. But there certainly too few facts/numbers.

[XANDER CAGE]

It still boggles my mind that a video game is only "art" when it's serious in tone.

[Sir_Crocodile]

I wonder if this is advanced sucking up to try and get another exclusive contract with sony

[SolidSnakex]

I'd say that there's some truth to what they're saying simply because Sony pushes artsy games a lot more than anyone else. I'm talking about games that are hard to actually describe and not something like 2D platformers with twists. A good example of that would be Sony's next big PSN title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFfteZaAXq4

[a Master Ninja]

it means the same thing.

First party publishing decisions =/= the interests and tastes of the audience that owns the system.

The PS3 crowd does not really have that many casuals,

While not the "family system" of choice, I've seen it suggested that the PS3 retained a fair amount of offline casuals the PS2 had. People that buy 2 or 3 games a year like Madden, GTA, and play Call of Duty singleplayer but never touch online.

[Carl]

Playstation developer most likely to wax lyrical about playstation brand In other news coke employee thinks coke is better then pepsi

In other news, TGC aren't a Playstation developer anymore, so can say whatever they want.

[Kilrogg]

"Look Mom, I made art! True, bona fide art. See, I even used the word 'bona fide'!"

[Of All Trades]

On one hand Journey was outright amazing.

On the other hand Heavy Rain had my all-time jump-the-shark QTE sequence with feeding a baby.

[Sir_Crocodile]

In other news, TGC aren't a Playstation developer anymore, so can say whatever they want.

I wonder if this is advanced sucking up to try and get another exclusive contract with sony

rah rah rah

[ULTROS!]

I think what I consider "art" are Linger in Shadows and probably Datura (because it's by the same team who made LiS). I'm assuming LiS sold quite decently because it's very cheap.

Just wondering, does XBLA and WiiWare have something similar to Linger in Shadows (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDdStxjGELk)?

[Petrichor]

well, without sales numbers it is only some marketing bullshit. But it is fair to assume that the Wii crowd consists mainly of Nintendo-Fans plus Wii Sports/Fit casuals. The former will buy classic Nintendo titles on the marketplace and the latter ones will probably buy only retail shovelware if they buy anything at all. The 360 crowd consists mainly of Halo/CoD FPS shooter fans plus Kinect casuals. So the same applies for both groups as on Nintendo. The PS3 crowd does not really have that many casuals, at least Move is much less successfull then Waggle or Kinect. And the Sony fanboys are much more diverse than Nintendo/Microsoft fanboys (GoW, UC, R&C, ... are selling less than Halo/Mario games). Journey would have failed hard on the Wii. On the 360 DD games seem to sell more than on the PS3, so it is difficult to say whether Journey would have sold more/less on the 360 than on the PS3. Though Journey is selling hot in Japan and the 360 is dead in Japan, so at least there the PS3 is the correct system to sell it on. So this theory might be correct. But there certainly too few facts/numbers.

This isn't evidence that sony fans have more diverse tastes. It could be the same 2 million people buying all of sony's first party efforts; it's just Sony's IP's don't appeal to their audience as much as Nintendo's do to Wii owners, or Halo does to xbox owners.

[Punchpudding]

Even if I thought that I would never say it aloud to avoid sounding like a dick. Plus now I understand the point of those old artsy PS commercials.

[Prophet Steve]

Not sure if I sound really dumb here, but may the actual reason be that there are none of those "art" titles are on the 360 and there are no similar titles?

Would someone really miss that point?

[SolidSnakex]

Heavy Rain may have sold well, but you could just as easily point to the pitiful sales of Bioshock PS3 as evidence against this argument.

Bioshock was a poor port of a year old title.

[Sho_Nuff82]

I think some people have absolutely no clue what MS publishes and/or secures as exclusives on XBLA.

[Takuya]

Hey Sony,you have no right to talk about art until you release The Last Guardian.

It was Jenova Chen, not Sony.

[Kafel]

Game developers can say really dumb things when they're chasing a contract.

[Carl]

rah rah rah

I very much doubt they would have walked away in the first place if they wanted to partner with Sony again. I can't imagine the deal ended without a long talk between Sony and Chen, with lots of money involved to stay exclusive.

[Meisadragon]

I think what I consider "art" are Linger in Shadows and probably Datura (because it's by the same team who made LiS). I'm assuming LiS sold quite decently because it's very cheap.

LiS was only good for free trophies. I literally had no idea what I was doing in that game, actually -- interactive realtime art is an accurate name.

[Always-honest]

I cerainly think there are more creative and interesting games on ps3. So yeah, i agree.

[Tizoc]

Hmm well I did love the visual presentation of El Shaddai and Heavy Rain was an interesting experience.
Both of which I played on the PS3. ...oh and then there's Journey and Flower.

[Tellaerin]

I think he may be onto something, though not quite in the way he believes.

The X360 does seem to be the go-to console for the dudebro gamer, who isn't typically interested in the overtly artsy stuff. So PS3 ends up having more of an audience for this kind of stuff, but that's not because people have specifically sought it out on that platform - it's because the people who are least interested in it have gone elsewhere.

[Kafel]

Not sure if I sound really dumb here, but may the actual reason be that there are none of those "art" titles are on the 360 and there are no similar titles? Would someone really miss that point?

There's more than one thousand indie titles on the 360. A lot of them only are portraying some idea of art.

[sublimit]

It was Jenova Chen, not Sony.

I know but Sony replied to him through Jack Buser.

[evolution]

First party publishing decisions =/= the interests and tastes of the audience that owns the system.

You also build your audience through the types of software you release for your system. If Sony publish more "artistic" games for the ps3 than MS does on 360 it makes sense that the audience for that particular genre may be larger on ps3.

[Clear]

I cerainly think there are more creative and interesting games on ps3. So yeah, i agree.

Agreed. PS3 has a far more eclectic range of titles than the other consoles this gen.

[Carl]

I think what I consider "art" are Linger in Shadows and probably Datura (because it's by the same team who made LiS). I'm assuming LiS sold quite decently because it's very cheap.

Was the top seller in the US for the month it was released. http://www.nextgn.com/2008/12/06/top...-games-on-psn/

As you say, i assume it's continued to sell decently based on cheapness.

[Riposte]

Linger in Shadows

LOL THE FUCKING DOG

Yes, this is very artz

[ShironRedshift]

Well I think he's entirely correct. When thinking of Heavy Rain, Afrika, LittleBigPlanet, Flower, Linger in Shadows, The Last Guardian... etc, then it's pretty apparent that Sony are catering to, if not a more adult audience, then perhaps a more sophisticated one than the average publisher/developer aims for.

Right about Sony, yes. Jumping from there and assuming that the PS3 actually has more people interested in these titles than the 360, when they'e only released on the PS3/PSN to begin with, however... Not so much, precisely because those games aren't on the 360/XBL and so we have no way of knowing how well they would have actually done on it, especially when on top of that we don't actually know how well (in terms of numbers) Journey actually did (or in other words, how healthy PSN is right now/what it takes to top the charts on it).

[EXGN]

IMO, the difference between Sony and MS is that even though they both have a number of "artsy" games, only Sony seems to get behind from the beginning, whereas MS tends to look at indie games already being made and says "Hey, lets snatch this up as a timed as exclusive" (IE, Fez, Braid).

I really don't think MS would ever sink the budget into something out-there like Journey, The Last Guardian or Heavy Rain.

And I really wouldn't lump Alan Wake into that category either, it's a shooter ultimately.

[inky]

What a bunch of random and bs conjectures. I own all three consoles, so I might as well be a kid, a bro manchild and an artsy hipster all rolled into one I guess.

But do they require users to think and feel about a deep, immersive gameplay experience like Heavy Rain?

Lols.

[thegreatchamp]

stop asking stupid questions at the end of every post

Agree. It was especially annoying in the iPhone Android thread.

[Wolfgunblood Garopa]

Do you value the opinion of Jenova Chen? Is he just "sucking up" to Sony and trying to improve their brand? Are Xbox 360 and Wii owners uneducated idiots who don't understand art? Are video games art at all? Is spelling "Thatgamecompany" as one word a symbol of maturity and artistic credibility?

All this and more, tune in at 11

[SSReborn]

Didn't Q-Games make very artsy styled games at one point as well?

[Sir_Crocodile]

I very much doubt they would have walked away in the first place if they wanted to partner with Sony again. I can't imagine the deal ended without a long talk between Sony and Chen, with lots of money involved to stay exclusive.

So they're going to develop games for those they've basically dubbed the great unwashed instead?

We'll see.

Also, I'm glad I've never bothered setting up psn on my PS3. Means I've never given any money to this guy. And now I never will!

fun fun fun

[Anteater]

Thoughtful and deep, emotional and thematic sophistication, I'm glad that I've bought a Playstation 3

[Banjoman]

PC is the champion of adult gaming

Indeed. Only there I can enjoy my eroge visual novels.

[Riposte]

Calling a game "artsy" (or for that matter "artistic") was kind of funny at first, but now it has become empowering, which poisons the discussion. There is no good reason to create a barrier between these games and "non-artsy" games. It is mostly done in an arbitrary manner which is most based off how pretentious the noise around the game is and the size of the frames on the glasses the "indie" dev wears.

EDIT: This Linger in Shadows game seems to be a cheesy movie (with cool music) which stops often and forces you to solve a nonsensical puzzle.

[Kunan]

More like they compared the games released and inferred this based on it. This isn't really indicative of the userbase, especially considering sales of said games vs the great sales of indie XBLA games.

[Carl]

So they're going to develop games for those they've basically dubbed the great unwashed instead?

I don't think that's what he meant at all; just that the audience on PS3 is more interested in games that are a little different.

[Atomski]

Only if you don't count PC I guess. I can't imagine Dear Ester would have sold nearly as much on PS3.....

[Fixed1979]

PS3 - The Apple of home consoles. Now they too can feel like elitist.

[bede-x]

PC has all arty games beat though.

It's not that simple. There might be a ton of artistic indiegames on PC and I love those, but sometimes for certain productions, you need a bigger budget than an indie can provide. Something like Shadow of the Colossus or The Last Guardian requires a publisher that's willing to take chances and oftentimes those publishers have proven to be firstparty. Sony has been very good at it for a couple of generations, like Sega was before.

So while PC artsy games are good, I still feel they lack the grandness, for lack of better word, that some firstparty console games provides. Take a look at Journey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKqeD7ojynw

Or perhaps it would be more appropriate to my point, to try and imagine an indie developing and animating something like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHzHoMT5eRg

[OldJadedGamer]

I think some people have absolutely no clue what MS publishes and/or secures as exclusives on XBLA.

It is very strange and something I see constantly on GAF.

[mantidor]

I agree with the general sentiment, this is stupid.

Anyone who really is into niche, "artsy" stuff should own all consoles + handhelds + PC anyway (although ps3/360 might be a bit redundant except for a couple of games).

And I hate how the wii gets ignored in threads like this with games like Shattered Memories, Lost Winds or Muramasa.

The truth is that if you are into these type of games tough luck, they aren't very popular in any platform and you aren't going to find that many, I basically rely on GAF to find this gems, because outside they barely get mentioned.