[chickdigger802]

It's a really, really good game that doesn't stray all that far from the "tried and true" MMORPG conventions. I had a great time with it until I hit the motivation wall.

This.


but also one of the poorest optimized games released this gen.

There is a reason why everyone was facepalming when Elder scrolls was mentioned to use the same engine as this.

[sflufan]

Except for the whole part where adding new content to it involves a lot of money and effort. Voice acting demands, animation, and such.

That doesn't negate the fact that the game doesn't really deviate from the established GAMEPLAY conventions of the genre.

[Struct09]

ouch what's gaf consensus on the game btw?

It's a good game, just too similar to WoW.

[Orayn]

EQ was 450,000 subscribers at its peak and was heralded as a huge success. Just because WoW blew that number away, that doesn't mean that's the proper measuring stick for successful subscriber numbers in an MMO.

That might be because EQ didn't have an ungodly bloated budget like TOR.

[Vinci]

EQ was 450,000 subscribers at its peak and was heralded as a huge success. Just because WoW blew that number away, that doesn't mean that's the proper measuring stick for successful subscriber numbers in an MMO.

Tell me how much EQ took to develop and then we can compare that number with how much TOR cost. I'm not saying that TOR won't be profitable, but you are comparing two very different products.

That doesn't negate the fact that the game doesn't really deviate from the established GAMEPLAY conventions of the genre.

True. My comment is more stating the foolishness of the decision. If the game lacks content in various areas, for example endgame, and you need to get that out to maintain your sub numbers... making the addition of new content a massive undertaking is probably not the wisest approach to take.

[keltickennedy]

I am still slowly trying to make my way to lvl 50 (at lvl 37). I might switch over to getting a time card since I don't play that often, maybe once or twice a week. I still really like the game. I prefer it over WoW because soloing is a better experience with the class quests.

[massoluk]

ouch what's gaf consensus on the game btw?

I thought it's a good game, but not enough for me to pay the monthly subscription for this singleplayer experience. It's always been in my "I'll resubscribe and come back one day when I have ample time to finish the class quest " list.

[RiderKairuu]

It was fun for the first month but it got so boring to me after a while.

[HarryDemeanor]

ouch what's gaf consensus on the game btw?

I enjoyed my time with the game. My only two problems with the game was that there wasn't much at the endgame and it didn't run great on my PC but that was more the fault of my PC.

I'm going to check it out again when 1.3 launches and hopefully I have a better PC by then.

[Conor 419]

I'm guessing this game was profitable though, right?

[Durante]

First post wins this round. Though to be fair, selling 2 million copies at full price and then slowly bleeding subscribers probably still makes them more money than selling 3-4 million of a hypothetical KOTOR 3.

To be even more fair, KotOR 3 wouldn't have needed a 300 Million budget (unlike TOR).

[SDBurton]

I quit after they took too long to implement the features I wanted. Fun game, though nothing worth sticking with.

[M.D]

Is it likely they already got all the investment back with the initial sales & current sub base? If so, they'll be smart to make it F2P, but with a way to milk a lot more money out of it.

I have a feeling they're EA/Bioware are too proud as a company to make this move

[inky]

EQ was 450,000 subscribers at its peak and was heralded as a huge success. Just because WoW blew that number away, that doesn't mean that's the proper measuring stick for successful subscriber numbers in an MMO.

If EQ cost 5% of what SWTOR potentially cost I would be very, very surprised.

[vaelic]

EA loses Star Wars users, shares tumble

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/ea-los...203742233.html

[Ushojax]

I want to go to the universe where the trilogy was completed.

I want to go to the universe where the second one was completed. This franchise has been terribly handled.

[HK-47]

EQ was 450,000 subscribers at its peak and was heralded as a huge success. Just because WoW blew that number away, that doesn't mean that's the proper measuring stick for successful subscriber numbers in an MMO.

did everquest have to give a cut to another company and did it cost as much to make?

[Yoshichan]

Is Darth Vader a raid boss yet? 'cuz I'd play it then!

[Derrick01]

To be even more fair, KotOR 3 wouldn't have needed a 300 Million budget (unlike TOR).

EA would have found a way. They're the most wasteful and un-organized gaming company out there when it comes to spending money.

[Vinci]

Is it likely they already got all the investment back with the initial sales & current sub base? If so, they'll be smart to make it F2P, but with a way to milk a lot more money out of it. I have a feeling they're EA/Bioware are too proud as a company to make this move

EA is not going to make an important decision based on pride. If they crunch the numbers and they come up in favor of F2P, that's where it will go.

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Depending on who you ask, even WoW is struggling. Lots of drama in MMO land these days.

UUuT?

[zlatko]

I was one of them. Or maybe I bowed out earlier? Not sure.

Still a good fun game though. I just don't have the time for it.

[INDIGO_CYCLOPS]

It was fun for the first month but it got so boring to me after a while.

This is where I stand on it. I was definitely one of those 400K.

[Vinci]

UUuT?

I never claimed those people were intelligible.

[K.Sabot]

It was a sub average single player game and a shitty MMO.

4chan is gonna run with this.

[Sn4ke_911]

first reply wins again.

[Chamber]

should have just made KOTOR 3

I still can't believe KOTOR 3 never happened.

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I never claimed those people were intelligible.

I have never heard anything like that though, the closet to bad news from WoW was dropping to just 10 million paying customers.

[Chairman Yang]

Is it likely they already got all the investment back with the initial sales & current sub base? If so, they'll be smart to make it F2P, but with a way to milk a lot more money out of it. I have a feeling they're EA/Bioware are too proud as a company to make this move

It's very unlikely they've gotten their investment back so far. From another thread, here are some rough calculations I made:

2 million boxed sales = $60 * 2M * 50% (production/distribution costs, retail margins, Lucasfilm cut) = $60M

EA indicated that 500K subs would just cover their monthly operating costs, which means that those monthly operating costs are 500K * $15 = $7.5M

So with 1.5M subs for 6 months, they'd add (1.5M * $15 * - $7.5M) * 6 months = $90M

So their total operating profit after 6 months would be $150M with the above assumptions. Whether or not the game is a disaster depends on how much EA spent on it. If it was $200M, they'll probably end up being mildly profitable, although shareholders won't be pleased with their low ROI. If it was $250M or more, heads will roll.

[Moaradin]

I still can't believe KOTOR 3 never happened.

KOTOR 2 was shit.

[Rokal]

The 1.3 million also counts all the players they gave a free month to as 'active', right? The drop was larger than 400k if so.

[Arcteryx]

ouch what's gaf consensus on the game btw?

It's a much better SP experience than a true "MMO" experience. But that said, even the SP side of things is pretty bland. I got my $60 out of it, but not much more.

The 1.3 million also counts all the players they gave a free month to as 'active', right? The drop was larger than 400k if so.

The numbers they were throwing around shortly after launch definitely did, although I don't know about currently though.

[McBradders]

It was fun for a while but the community never really seemed to gel for me and the grind is very flimsily hidden. Not a poor game but a woefully antiquated one given how things have changed since WoW launched.

[Sothpaw]

I quit after a few weeks. There is no reason to play TOR instead of WOW unless you're way into Star Wars.

There is no excuse for releasing an MMO in 2011 without group/raid finder, macro support and mod support.

Bioware made a terrible decision to have full voice instead of basic mmo features.

[RiderKairuu]

This is where I stand on it. I was definitely one of those 400K.

Same here, I actually had a lot of fun with the game but as new stuff was coming out I lost interest fast. It was my first MMO.

[Orayn]

I quit after a few weeks. There is no reason to play TOR instead of WOW unless you're way into Star Wars. There is no excuse for releasing an MMO in 2011 without group/raid finder, macro support and mod support. Bioware made a terrible decision to have full voice instead of basic mmo features.

What do you make of Guild Wars 2? ;)

[Solid07]

I forgot that I even own TOR. I haven't touched that game ever since my free month was up. Now I'm patiently waiting for KOTOR 3.

[JonCha]

Copycat MMO. I'll be surprised if it doesn't ride on the Star Wars brand though.

[Coolwhip]

This was... expected. The only MMO that I'm pretty sure will succeed is GW2. Tera looks like it could work too, especially since it doesn't present itself as a wow killer.

[FStop7]

1.3 mil subscribers is struggling?

For a Star Wars game in which over $100 mil was invested? It may be enough to keep the lights on but it's got to be very disappointing.

[JoeTheBlow]

should have just made KOTOR 3

Yeah, yeah.

Imagine KOTOR 3 with some kind of Demons/Dark Souls type of multiplayer, pulling in people to your single player, or going to theirs, to help out on quests or boss fights, and so on.
Paying for a game, then paying for a sub, in these economic times?
Crazy shit.

[StudioTan]

Nice thread title. It's true but still takes the most negative slant possible. Most MMOs would LOVE to have 1.3 million subs.

The 1.3 million also counts all the players they gave a free month to as 'active', right? The drop was larger than 400k if so.

No, that went into effect in April, Q4 ended in March.

For a Star Wars game in which over $100 mil was invested? It may be enough to keep the lights on but it's got to be very disappointing.

They said anything north of 1M subs means they are very profitable. 500k was the break even point.

[AppleMIX]

WOW.

People's perception of the MMO market is fucked.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...h-500-000-Subs

Even at 1.3 million they are making a pretty significant profit.

Nice thread title. It's true but still takes the most negative slant possible. Most MMOs would LOVE to have 1.3 million subs.

Pretty Much.

[TouchMyBox]

When it launched I told people half-jokingly that I would join them when it went F2P.

I guess that was actually a legitimate thing for me to have said.

WOW. People's perception of the MMO market is fucked. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...h-500-000-Subs Even at 1.3 million they are making a pretty significant profit.

Anybody suggesting that the game is a massive failure and is going to put EA a billion dollars in the hole are crazy, but the perception is that with MMOs we see acceleration in dropped subscribers as nobody wants to pay a subscription for a game if their friends are jumping ship.

[Mama Robotnik]

I want to go to the universe where the second one was completed. This franchise has been terribly handled.

Yeah, that still hurts too.

KoTOR 2 was going places, rewarding non-morally aligned playstyles, had some interesting characters (G0-T0, the unassuming little droid that secretly ran an entire galactic Dominion of crime; Kreia who was just incredibly well performed and realised), and a story that acknowledged the sinister possibility that The Force is some sort of tyrannical entity feeding of constant and unending death and warfare between its pawns. Kreia's quest, to use the freak of nature that was the Jedi Exile to poison The Force to death, and restore free will to the galaxy, was a fascinating direction for a Star Wars "villain". The idea that both Jedi and Sith were under constant vigilance to kill her on sight, exposed both groups as dogmatic. Some really great stuff was happening...

But then you hit the two-thirds mark and the entire game collapses into disjointed nonsense with chasms seperating narrative chunks and a nonsense ending. If the game was finished, and maybe tinkered a bit further, it would have (in my opinion) succeeded KoTOR 1.

Still hurts.

[Rokal]

The numbers they were throwing around shortly after launch definitely did, although I don't know about currently though.

To clarify what I was talking about, as of patch 1.2 (April 12th) they gave all active players with a level 50 character (or a certain server-wide 'legacy level') a free month of gametime. This meant previous subscribers who hit level cap were tempted by a 'buy one month of game time, get one month free' promotion, and existing subscribers that would have had their subscriptions expire in April/May were instead renewed for a month. They lost 400k subs even with all the free time they were handing out.

[Des0lar]

WOW. People's perception of the MMO market is fucked. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...h-500-000-Subs Even at 1.3 million they are making a pretty significant profit.

How much did the game cost? Has it made this money back yet?

[Chamber]

KOTOR 2 was shit.

Certainly not a polished game but I enjoyed KOTOR 2.

[LumpOfCole]

KOTOR 3 might not have made as much as SWTOR thanks to subscriptions, but it would've cost about 1/3 as much to make / maintain.

[StudioTan]

To clarify what I was talking about, as of patch 1.2 (April 12th) they gave all active players with a level 50 character (or a certain server-wide 'legacy level') a free month of gametime. This meant previous subscribers who hit level cap were tempted by a 'buy one month of game time, get one month free' promotion, and existing subscribers that would have had their subscriptions expire in April/May were instead renewed for a month. They lost 400k subs even with all the free time they were handing out.

It didn't happen on April 12th, it was given on April 25th.