[XiaNaphryz]

Pentagon Quit The Avengers Because of Its ‘Unreality’

The Pentagon halted its cooperation with Marvel Studios’ blockbuster movie The Avengers because the Defense Department didn’t think a movie about superheroes, Norse Gods and intergalactic invasions was sufficiently realistic in its treatment of military bureaucracy. Moviegoers and comic fans know that S.H.I.E.L.D., led by Samuel L. Jackson’s super-spy Nick Fury, is an international peacekeeping/global surveillance/crisis response/quasi-military organization. But its relationship with the United States is murky. And that basically stopped the U.S. military, which is normally eager to cooperate with the film industry on blockbuster movies, from teaming up with the Avengers. “We couldn’t reconcile the unreality of this international organization and our place in it,” Phil Strub, the Defense Department’s Hollywood liaison, tells Danger Room. “To whom did S.H.I.E.L.D. answer? Did we work for S.H.I.E.L.D.? We hit that roadblock and decided we couldn’t do anything” with the film. Well, almost anything. In the movie’s climactic Manhattan fight scene, New York National Guardsmen show up to try to help police and firemen contain — spoiler alert — the damage wrought by a cosmic invasion. The Defense Department allowed Marvel to film Humvees for the scene. But attentive moviegoers may have noticed the U.S. military’s latest stealth jets, the F-22 Raptors and what looked like F-35 Joint Strike Fighters, aboard S.H.I.E.L.D.’s airborne helicarrier, an awe-inspiring, tilt-rotor aircraft carrier. (One assumes that thing has the runway space necessary for a Raptor take-off — and S.H.I.E.L.D. super-scientists fixed the jet’s oxygen woes.) The fighters were “digitally inserted” by the studio, Strub explains, not actual planes provided by the U.S. military. Normally, the military loves to help Hollywood make mega-blockbusters. Iron Man got into a dogfight with F-22 Raptors in his first eponymous movie. The Navy provided the producers of the recent Act of Valor with unprecedented access to SEAL training missions and even let its secretive elite warriors act on camera. And the secretary of the Navy, Ray Mabus, even has a cameo in the forthcoming Battleship. (“I had a great time, although the director would probably recommend that I keep my day job,” Mabus told Politico.) But the ambiguity around what exactly S.H.I.E.L.D. is provides a vexing complication. If it’s an American governmental agency, what kind of constitutional authority does it exercise over the military? If it’s an international body, as the movie text suggests and Strub determined, are U.S. military personnel and equipment on loan to it through some kind of United Nations Security Council resolution? The questions may seem picayune, but they’re precisely the stuff that can cause an image-conscious military to yank its cooperation from a movie. The comics have fudged the issue for decades. Marvel now describes it as an “extra-government” body, although many takes on the organization have clearly emphasized its international character. Yet U.S. presidents have fired S.H.I.E.L.D. directors (Fury, Tony Stark/Iron Man) and appointed others (Norman Osborn/The Green Goblin, incumbent Steve Rogers/Captain America) — although that might operate by an informal international understanding, much like the U.S. appoints the director of the World Bank. Either way, the ambiguity prevented the Avengers from assembling beside the U.S. military. “It just got to the point where it didn’t make any sense,” Strub laments. And now comic nerds have another data point to bring up during continuity debates about what exactly S.H.I.E.L.D. is.

[Escape Goat]

Avengers was not enough of a recruitment film for the US military.

[f0rk]

I don't see how there can be any ambiguity in a relationship with a organization ran by Samuel L. Jackson.

[richiek]

Because to the US military, a film series featuring giant robots beating the shit out of each other is so much more realistic.

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

Michael Bay's powers of persuasion were enough to get the Pentagon into Transformers 1 and 2 weren't they?

[Slayven]

Damn if they are real close to a recent comic storyline.

[Canuck76]

I can't not think the military being in action movies is a bit unhealthy. Maybe I'm being a tad sensitive, but who knows. Kid's might be sort of unconsciously influenced by that stuff and want to join and have an image of what it's going to be, and then get a different reality.

[shira]

They just didn't want to reveal their helicarrier to China

[Brera]

Because to the US military, a film series featuring giant robots beating the shit out of each other is so much more realistic.

Thats because Transformers fight for the American dream...

[Banana Kid]

Turns out, the army is just way into the Justice League.

[Stet]

I wouldn't want to work with Joss Whedon either.

[Stinkles]

I wouldn't want to work with Joss Whedon either.

zing

[XiaNaphryz]

Thats because Transformers fight for the American dream...

How long until the GI Joe/Transformers crossover?

[Copernicus]

It's probably a good thing.

Most movies with heavy military injection end up with really shitty fight scenes.

(I haven't watched Avengers yet)

[Nesotenso]

How long until the GI Joe/Transformers crossover?

You just gave Hasbro so many ideas

[Rahxephon91]

Because to the US military, a film series featuring giant robots beating the shit out of each other is so much more realistic.

giant alien robots.

[shira]

You just gave Hasbro so many ideas

Unfortunately, they all start with bay

[strafer]

Iron Man is real yo.

[Razgriz-Specter]

You just gave Hasbro so many ideas

[Slayven]

You just gave Hasbro so many ideas

[MattKeil]

You just gave Hasbro so many ideas

An idea from 1986, actually.

If they were smart they would have made the human anti-Transformer unit GI Joe, not that NEST crap. But really you could spend weeks making changes to the Transformers movies prefaced with "If they were smart..."

[WillyFive]

One of the worst parts of the Transformers movies was the shameless army propaganda/product placement. It felt like a whole third of each movie was composed of stock footage of army/navy/air force money shots.

Good on The Avengers.

[BertramCooper]

I agree with DoD.

$220 million isn't nearly enough money to make a convincing depiction of military bureaucracy.

[BigDug13]

They bailed on Crimson Tide because of the Mutiny storyline. Anything that shows military negatively seems to be something they avoid.

[FStop7]

Avengers is too unrealistic but Stargate SG1 and Battleship aren't?

_wut_

[Guy Legend]

“We couldn’t reconcile the unreality of this international organization and our place in it,” Phil Strub, the Defense Department’s Hollywood liaison, tells Danger Room. “To whom did S.H.I.E.L.D. answer? Did we work for S.H.I.E.L.D.? We hit that roadblock and decided we couldn’t do anything” with the film.

lol

[Cloudy]

Are these guys for real? It's a freakin' movie lol

[Jason Raize '75 - '04]

Avengers was not enough of a recruitment film for the US military.

Why do you hate America?

[Escape Goat]

Why do you hate America?

[cutmeamango]

I'm pretty positive they wanted the army fighting with the Avengers where random soldier waiting for hot babe in Florida says: "Hulk, smash as our founding fathers and brave soldiers that died in battle for the freedom of our star spangled banner would have!"

Too bad for them that the Avengers already had Captain America.

[Razgriz-Specter]

They wouldn't do Independence Day because of Area 51 guys.

[Gr1mLock]

Ghasp. Fiction FICTIONAL? Who would have thunk it?

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Are these guys for real? It's a freakin' movie lol

But it means something if any organization throws its hat behind a fictional branch of said organization.

[Bleepey]

Phew almost read a spoiler. I love how nerdy it got regarding shield's role

[shidoshi]

Man do I wish I owned this:

[entrement]

How embarrassing. It's fiction!

[AnathemicOne]

I find it hard to believe they support Transformers but not the Avengers, I mean come on

[Escape Goat]

I find it hard to believe they support Transformers but not the Avengers, I mean come on

The military in the Transformers were not subordinate to anyone else but the President/Generals. In The Avengers we have military being answerable to Nick Fury, a spy master in a covert branch of the military, whose authority is ambiguous in the big picture. Thats what I see anyways. They probably take this stuff very seriously in the military.

[Callibretto]

I thought Nick Fury answer to US government? at least that's how it goes in Ultimates universe.

[LaserBuddha]

If the Pentagon helps with a movie, then in some way they are putting their stamp on it, saying that they helped make their part of it authentic.

If they help with a movie that contains some sort of quasi-UN military authority that supercedes the United States government, occupying it's airspace and carrying out unilateral military operations (and planet-killing secret weapons research) on U.S. soil, and this organization is the only mortal force protecting the U.S. when shit hits the fan.... well I don't think you need to be terribly smart to understand why the bureaucracy wouldn't want to directly support the concept.

Yeah, it's just a movie, and I'm sure the Pentagon is full of normally-functioning people who get that just as easily as anyone (yeah, surprise, GAF isn't a think tank of more sensible and intelligent people than the freakin' Pentagon), but actually putting an official "stamp of approval" on that vision of international relations can at the very least become a fumble for someone's career. So what if they just advised on the hardware? They might as well have written the movie if they touch it at all, when it comes to politicians.

But of course this thread is now pretty much about how much Transformers sucks compared to the Avengers. Derp on, my wayward son.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

If the Pentagon helps with a movie, then in some way they are putting their stamp on it, saying that they helped make their part of it authentic. If they help with a movie that contains some sort of quasi-UN military authority that supercedes the United States government, occupying it's airspace and carrying out unilateral military operations (and planet-killing secret weapons research) on U.S. soil, and this organization is the only mortal force protecting the U.S. when shit hits the fan.... well I don't think you need to be terribly smart to understand why the bureaucracy wouldn't want to directly support the concept. Yeah, it's just a movie, and I'm sure the Pentagon is full of normally-functioning people who get that just as easily as anyone (yeah, surprise, GAF isn't a think tank of more sensible and intelligent people than the freakin' Pentagon), but actually putting an official "stamp of approval" on that vision of international relations can at the very least become a fumble for someone's career. So what if they just advised on the hardware? They might as well have written the movie if they touch it at all, when it comes to politicians. But of course this thread is now pretty much about how much Transformers sucks compared to the Avengers. Derp on, my wayward son.

That's as good, logical and intelligent of an explanation as you're going to get from anyone.

Avengers is too unrealistic but Stargate SG1 and Battleship aren't? _wut_

Stargate was loved by the Air force for providing the military in a constantly positive light.

[Vulcano's assistant]

thank god for CG then?

[Slayven]

I thought Nick Fury answer to US government? at least that's how it goes in Ultimates universe.

In 616 they answer to the UN, when Fury feels like it.

[Grover Cleveland]

If the Pentagon helps with a movie, then in some way they are putting their stamp on it, saying that they helped make their part of it authentic. If they help with a movie that contains some sort of quasi-UN military authority that supercedes the United States government, occupying it's airspace and carrying out unilateral military operations (and planet-killing secret weapons research) on U.S. soil, and this organization is the only mortal force protecting the U.S. when shit hits the fan.... well I don't think you need to be terribly smart to understand why the bureaucracy wouldn't want to directly support the concept. Yeah, it's just a movie, and I'm sure the Pentagon is full of normally-functioning people who get that just as easily as anyone (yeah, surprise, GAF isn't a think tank of more sensible and intelligent people than the freakin' Pentagon), but actually putting an official "stamp of approval" on that vision of international relations can at the very least become a fumble for someone's career. So what if they just advised on the hardware? They might as well have written the movie if they touch it at all, when it comes to politicians. But of course this thread is now pretty much about how much Transformers sucks compared to the Avengers. Derp on, my wayward son.

Silly junior, rationality and sensibility have no place on GAF. Meanwhile, shitting on Michael Bay's Transformers is one of GAF's most treasured traditions.

I agree on all points and I think the quote makes it pretty clear as to where the Pentagon's doubts are here. Appearing to be in any way supplementary or subservient to Nick Fury and S.H.I.E.L.D. wouldn't exactly be a display of strength on the part of DoD. And when you're involved with anything made for public consumption, even something as relatively innocuous as a summer comic book popcorn flick, public relations and the military's image and "brand" is something that the DoD will take very seriously.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

If the Pentagon helps with a movie, then in some way they are putting their stamp on it, saying that they helped make their part of it authentic. If they help with a movie that contains some sort of quasi-UN military authority that supercedes the United States government, occupying it's airspace and carrying out unilateral military operations (and planet-killing secret weapons research) on U.S. soil, and this organization is the only mortal force protecting the U.S. when shit hits the fan.... well I don't think you need to be terribly smart to understand why the bureaucracy wouldn't want to directly support the concept. Yeah, it's just a movie, and I'm sure the Pentagon is full of normally-functioning people who get that just as easily as anyone (yeah, surprise, GAF isn't a think tank of more sensible and intelligent people than the freakin' Pentagon), but actually putting an official "stamp of approval" on that vision of international relations can at the very least become a fumble for someone's career. So what if they just advised on the hardware? They might as well have written the movie if they touch it at all, when it comes to politicians.

/thread

[Jackpot]

But Transformers 2 also had a vague "international team", with US soldiers and robot aliens blowing the shit out of China and then Egypt.

[Gunloc]

The real reason we go to movies, to get the straight facts about the chain of command in government.

Nick Fury calling the shots at the Pentagon?!? My world is shattering around me!

[Discotheque]

I can't not think the military being in action movies is a bit unhealthy. Maybe I'm being a tad sensitive, but who knows. Kid's might be sort of unconsciously influenced by that stuff and want to join and have an image of what it's going to be, and then get a different reality.

There's a reason why recruitment ads have that badass music and cool shit in them.

[Carbonox_Ratchet]

Because to the US military, a film series featuring giant robots beating the shit out of each other is so much more realistic.

Probably because they think they can get Darpa to create actual shape-shifting robot warriors for war duty but not a Norse God. :P

IT'S A CONSPIRACY.

[jaxword]

It's pretty common knowledge the US military will only work with projects that depict it as positively as possible.

The "unrealistic" excuse is just that, an excuse. Transformers was allowed because it showed how awesome and noble and Good the US military was for fighting the evil robots.

There was no moral ambiguity, we had brave American soldiers shooting the bad guys.