[Pyronite]

Today in "no shit" news... I think Epic have something on their hands that is going to bring disappointment for them. The next-gen won't be as powerful as they think it will.

I doubt you have better insight than Epic Games as to what the two console manufacturers are going to put out.

[Globox_82]

I doubt you have better insight than Epic Games as to what the two console manufacturers are going to put out.

Well said
Although u am sure this is based more on where next box might end. Cant wait to see it. Those that have seen it seem blown away. Who said that it looks better then samaritan?

[Averon]

I'd imagine Epic knows exactly what MS and Sony's plans are for Durango and Orbis. Epic and MS have been really close for a while (it was Epic that pushed MS to include extra ram in the 360) so them knowing what Durango will be shouldn't be a surprise. I'd imagine Sony will want to make sure Epic's new engine runs smoothly on Orbis. I'm sure Sony doesn't want a repeat of the PS3/UE3 difficulties nor do they want to continue having 3rd party games on their platform performing below MS's.

[Globox_82]

I'd imagine Epic knows exactly what MS and Sony's plans are for Durango and Orbis. Epic and MS have been really close for a while (it was Epic that pushed MS to include extra ram in the 360) so them knowing what Durango will be shouldn't be a surprise. I'd imagine Sony will want to make sure Epic's new engine runs smoothly on Orbis. I'm sure Sony doesn't want a repeat of the PS3/UE3 difficulties nor do they want to continue having 3rd party games on their platform performing below MS's.

One would asume that but its a Japanese company they rarely change their ways, just look at big N.

[Haunted]

Well said Although u am sure this is based more on where next box might end. Cant wait to see it. Those that have seen it seem blown away. Who said that it looks better then samaritan?

Epic's own Mark Rein said Samaritan looks like crap compared to UE4.

[MrBud360]

I know about this U4 demo. There is a gigantic Demon over a volcano. I cant tell anymore. But its really impressive.

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Epic's own Mark Rein said Samaritan looks like crap compared to UE4.

I can't even fathom such a thought. That's just overhype.

[Hot Coldman]

I doubt you have better insight than Epic Games as to what the two console manufacturers are going to put out.

Yet more "no shit" revelations! It's called a hunch, dude. Anyway, catch up with the rest of my thread and you'll see I already shifted my position.

[i-Lo]

Epic's own Mark Rein said Samaritan looks like crap compared to UE4.

Sounds like quite the hyperbole. Wouldn't blame the guy; after all, he is trying to sell a product.

I'd only trust Tim Sweeney if an when he gives a more objective overview of the engine.

[Proelite]

Alberto said that MS listened to EA, Crytek and Epic and beefed up their target spec, so Xbox 3 having the 2.5 teraflops necessary for UE4 / Samaritan isn't a suprise.

Playstation 4 currently has 1.9-2.0 teraflops based on the latest rumors, but I am pretty sure Epic is already on Sony's case. They should be able to match whatever GPU is in the next Xbox.

[Dash Kappei]

even if performance doubled every 12 months that wouldn't happen unless the wii u was only 240gflops i.e. weaker than the 360. iPad is only 10 GFLOPS (Apr 11 2010) iPad 2 is only 19GFLOPS (Mar 11 2011 iPad 3 is only 38GFLOPS (March 16 2012) ipad 4 maybe 76GFLOPS (2013) iPad 5 maybe 152GFLOPS (2014) iPad 6 maybe 300GFLOPS (2015) iPad 7 maybe 600 GFLOPS (2016) iPad 8 maybe 1200 GFLOPS (2017) I highly doubt they can keep the upgrades doubling every year but even if it does... By the time iPad 8 arrives is when it will be more powerful than WiiU and by that time we will already be talking about the next generation of consoles by Nintendo. Who knows what would have happened by that time. Tablets could go the way of netbooks and be usurped by something else completely. You also have to realise that the iPad 3 renders at an outrageously high resolution and there goes your power running multiplatfor game sin native resolution. Good luck selling $1 games at AAAA budgets as well.

Also, it's not like that kind of power can be taken as an indication of how games will look and play.
I mean, iPad 3rd Gen smokes the Gamecube and you guys know that i LOVE my iPad and iOS gaming, right?
Well, there's nothing even remotely close to Resident Evil 4 (or even launch games like Rogue Leader 2 or Wave Race:BS, LM...) I don't see how it would even matter if the iPad5/x surpasses the WiiU techically: you're not going to see the kind of games and graphical quality you guys expect from that.

[USC-fan]

Why are we talking about wiiu? Thought I clicked on the wrong thread.

[BlackJace]

Why are we talking about wiiu? Thought I clicked on the wrong thread.

It's all the rage. Well, the decision to put UE4 on the system is anyway.

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

I hope this platform he's speaking of gets announced this E3.

[Medalion]

I hope this platform he's speaking of gets announced this E3.

Nope, just Wii-U stuff

[BurntPork]

What possible reason is there other than tech?

Because of Epic saying no for another reason. For example, even though Wii U is technically capable of running the engine, they don't think it'll do it proper justice. Perhaps they'll say that it's only for machines that can run Samaritan at at least 720p/30FPS.

[johnnysix]

Really have to laugh at some of delusion happening in this thread.

To the people stating with confidence that "it will have to be available for Wii-U too" - Why? There have been reports that the Wii-U doesn't match the 360 and PS3 in some respects, why is so outrageous to think it won't run UE4? Of course, it may scale, but aren't we looking at a similar situation to what we have now with the Wii, 360 and PS3 (ie. scaled back ports for Wii). Nobody has any investment in the Wii-U at this point from a consumer perspective, so I don't get this kind of blind faith people have in Nintendo's next system.

I also can't believe some people are saying that Epic are overestimating the power of the next generation of consoles. - Do you really think they haven't been talking to Sony, Microsoft and Apple? They'd be crazy to release an engine that isn't primarily aimed at the next generation of consoles.

[Proelite]

I also can't believe some people are saying that Epic are overestimating the power of the next generation of consoles. - Do you really think they haven't been talking to Sony, Microsoft and Apple? They'd be crazy to release an engine that isn't primarily aimed at the next generation of consoles.

Wut.

[BurntPork]

Really have to laugh at some of delusion happening in this thread. To the people stating with confidence that "it will have to be available for Wii-U too" - Why? There have been reports that the Wii-U doesn't match the 360 and PS3 in some respects, why is so outrageous to think it won't run UE4? Of course, it may scale, but aren't we looking at a similar situation to what we have now with the Wii, 360 and PS3 (ie. scaled back ports for Wii). Nobody has any investment in the Wii-U at this point from a consumer perspective, so I don't get this kind of blind faith people have in Nintendo's next system. I also can't believe some people are saying that Epic are overestimating the power of the next generation of consoles. - Do you really think they haven't been talking to Sony, Microsoft and Apple? They'd be crazy to release an engine that isn't primarily aimed at the next generation of consoles.

Current-gen engines can't scale back to the Wii at all, actually. Wii doesn't have programmable shaders, so it was beefed-up last-gen hardware. Wii U, however, will very likely be an extremely weak next-gen hardware. It'll be more like low settings vs high settings, or PSP vs XBox or Wii.

[USC-fan]

Because of Epic saying no for another reason. For example, even though Wii U is technically capable of running the engine, they don't think it'll do it proper justice. Perhaps they'll say that it's only for machines that can run Samaritan at at least 720p/30FPS.

So your saying it can run but it would at 1 fps.

[squidyj]

I don't see why it wouldn't be on wii-u

I don't see why it would be targeting current gen console horsepower. I'm not saying they wouldn't get it running but I would hardly make it a focus if I was Epic. Let it run Unreal 3 stuffs and we'll hash out the code path later. I definitely wouldn't be talking about Unreal 4 on Wii U.

[ClovingWestbrook]

I know about this U4 demo. There is a gigantic Demon over a volcano. I cant tell anymore. But its really impressive.

How do you know about it?

[davonaytor]

PC's haven't been announced yet.

[Mxrz]

Well, why would you even want watered down ports to begin with?

This is kind of intriguing. Epic obviously has to hype their new money machine, but they generally deliver, and all the rumored stuff does make it sound like something special. If nothing else, we'll finally make it out of the UE3 era.

[BlueSummers]

Someone needs to stumble onto a breakthrough which redefines how we make games and can bring down the time and costs for games. I really feel like games may implode on themselves if we keep going as we are now.

[JABEE]

One would asume that but its a Japanese company they rarely change their ways, just look at big N.

But Kaz

[donny2112]

Well, why would you even want watered down ports to begin with?

Yeah, really. Why would people want games on a console, when it's not the best version of the game? That's why Xbox smoked PS2 two gens ago. That's why PC's been blowing this gen out of water since its inception.

Ports that are still good are better than no support at all. Check out the Wii this generation, if you want to see the effects of near total lack of industry support. It shot off better than the PS2, but crashed hard without the industry behind it, even if it would've just been "watered down ports."

[Reg]

have the wii-u specs ever been leaked?

[Giant Panda]

One would asume that but its a Japanese company they rarely change their ways, just look at big N.

Yes, because PS2 and Wii not matching the competition proved to turn out terribly.

[sleepykyo]

whatever ports end up even happening will be bastardized versions made by some B team. Am I wrong?

Didn't stop publishers from releasing PS3 games.

[Haunted]

I know about this U4 demo. There is a gigantic Demon over a volcano. I cant tell anymore. But its really impressive.

Quoted for posterity so you'll gain clout if it turns out to be correct.

[MrBud360]

How do you know about it?

They showed to the developers, and i know one of them. It was all running in the editor, impressive tecnology for developers.

[ClovingWestbrook]

They showed to the developers, and i know one of them. It was all running in the editor, impressive tecnology for developers.

Ahh nice. Thanks for the info.

[Majanew]

Yes, because PS2 and Wii not matching the competition proved to turn out terribly.

The difference in power/graphics between PS2 and GameCube/Xbox was negligible, and the PS2 was where to go for the game library. The Wii was an anomaly.

[salpa]

have the wii-u specs ever been leaked?

No, people just like to assume it is going to be an underpowered piece of garbage because it is coming out earlier than the competition.

People like to think that just because the Wii was underpowered, Nintendo all of a sudden "always releases underpowered hardware".

That's why I stay away from the Wii U thread.

[Jonnyram]

Before people say no Wii U support. He says "intended platforms." Wii U might not have been the intended platform for UE4, but may run it at the lowest setting. All speculation of course.

Epic reaching in the first reply.

[shinra-bansho]

Because of Epic saying no for another reason. For example, even though Wii U is technically capable of running the engine, they don't think it'll do it proper justice. Perhaps they'll say that it's only for machines that can run Samaritan at at least 720p/30FPS.

I don't see how that's different from "technical limitations" preventing UE4 on the platform - if what you're saying is that it won't be able to run it in real-world situations.

Technical limitations, resource limitations and contractual obligations are largely the only reasons a company wouldn't want their product on every platform possible.

[Van Owen]

No, people just like to assume it is going to be an underpowered piece of garbage because it is coming out earlier than the competition. People like to think that just because the Wii was underpowered, Nintendo all of a sudden "always releases underpowered hardware". That's why I stay away from the Wii U thread.

Or it's because thus far all reports indicate its roughly as powerful as a 360.

[nordique]

I had no idea this was a Wii U thread :P




I expect every next gen platform, including the Wii U, to run Unreal Engine 4.


Remember people its about feature set, not raw power. Feature wise, people are kidding themselves if they think the Wii U is going to be this bare bones piece of metal and plastic moulded together.

I'm expecting the Wii U, on paper, to be between the PS3 and PS4 ("in between this gen and next) and I don't think its a bad place to be.

Both sides who think the Wii U will be an Xbox 360 in terms of power or the Next Xbox in terms of power are kidding themselves.


And I also expect to the untrained eye all games to look "on par" with current gen, next gen. HD takes everything to a certain even playing field.

[johnnysix]

I also can't believe some people are saying that Epic are overestimating the power of the next generation of consoles. - Do you really think they haven't been talking to Sony, Microsoft and Apple? They'd be crazy to release an engine that isn't primarily aimed at the next generation of consoles.

Wut.

You don't think they would be speaking to Apple? I think Epic have shown they're very interested in demonstrating the benefits of using their engines on mobile platforms. There will be at least 2 revisions of the ipad and perhaps an iTV before the end of the Wii-U's life.

[Derrick01]

To keep hope alive that the Wii U will be comparable to PS4/Durango

Yeah I would say that ship has sailed and the sooner people accept that the sooner they can move on and go back to pretending that graphics don't matter.

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

The difference in power/graphics between PS2 and GameCube/Xbox was negligible

Er, no.

[Neo C.]

It's annoying to read Wii U and UE4 in every UE4 thread, seriously. I think some Nintendo fans set themselves up an "expectation trap" which is going to hurt them no matter what the outcome may be.

No UE3 support for Wii is just part of the reason why the Wii software dropped hard last year. No UE4 for Wii U wouldn't be desastrous either if Nintendo played the other cards right. What I learned in this gen is that the market has its own dynamic and former rules often don't apply to next gen (for example, most successful console gets most software support).

[les papillons sexuels]

The difference in power/graphics between PS2 and GameCube/Xbox was negligible, and the PS2 was where to go for the game library. The Wii was an anomaly.

you got xbox 360 and ps3 mixed up with ps2 and xbox/gc.

[gconsole]

Why do people keep begging things for wiiU. First is the game. Then the engine. What next? U must know already that nintendo will continue their wii philosophy and wont follw the rest of the industry.

[pottuvoi]

Why do people keep begging things for wiiU. First is the game. Then the engine. What next? U must know already that nintendo will continue their wii philosophy and wont follw the rest of the industry.

The philosophy of Nintendo is exactly the reason why I'm 'quite skeptical about WiiU being powerful or programmable enough for something like UE4, if the rumors about UE4 are true.

UE4 will most likely be the first engine to really push the idea of compute based rendering and it's something that requires certain level of programmability from a GPU.
There is also a certain base cost for going this route which might be too much for older hardware and thus UE3 may be more feasible for some machines in actual game development.

[airmangataosenai]

Er, no.

When you consider that there's an 18 month gap in between the launches of the PS2 and Gamecube, it's actually a shockingly small difference in performance. Time-wise, that's actually a larger gap than between the Dreamcast and PS2. So yeah, PS2 was indeed a beast when it launched in 2000. Using it as an example of how performance doesn't matter (Even if there are other examples to back the claim) is just revisionism.

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

When you consider that there's an 18 month gap in between the launches of the PS2 and Gamecube, it's actually a shockingly small difference in performance. Time-wise, that's actually a larger gap than between the Dreamcast and PS2. So yeah, PS2 was indeed a beast when it launched in 2000. Using it as an example of how performance doesn't matter (Even if there are other examples to back the claim) is just revisionism.

I don't care how it relates to the discussion on the importance of performance or what the time span between those consoles' releases was (although the difference between Xbox/GameCube and PS2 was more pronounced than the difference between PS2 and Dreamcast), I'm just saying that the notion that the difference in power between those consoles was negligible is ridiculous at best. It was quite pronounced.

[AzaK]

Epic's own Mark Rein said Samaritan looks like crap compared to UE4.

But didn't he also say that Samaritan was like UE 3.9? If .1 can take engine from crap to awesome then there is something strange happening in the world of GPU tech.

[ElTopo]

Why do people keep begging things for wiiU. First is the game. Then the engine. What next? U must know already that nintendo will continue their wii philosophy and wont follw the rest of the industry.

What you post makes little sense.

So you're saying it's unreasonable to hope that the successor to the most-used engine this gen runs on Wii U, that it's unreasonable to hope that 3rd parties support the successor of the most successful console of this gen, that instead it's reasonable that 3rd parties bet completely against Nintendo again even though it didn't work out for them this gen (and instead severely hurt their profits) ?

What would Epic say should Wii U - against opinion at GAF - become a breakout success ? Ignore the system ? Don't use UE4 ? Pray ? Seems like a risky bet for them and the industry.

Edit:
Why are people so keen on repeating times and times again that Nintendo cannot get 3rd party support because "something something Nintendo" and that we should stop hoping for that ?