[Easy_D]

At the rate they're going, they will be handed God of War 5 if they lose the next DmC, so sure, why not.

What's to follow after Gears 5? Super Mario Bros 6?

Edit: I can see that people would be annoyed with this statement like.

"Yeah it can sell 10 copies for all I care, we're making a game we want to make in a way we want to make it"

vs

"We're kinda disappointed with our sales :( We wanted our hard labour of love to do better"

So their games might not be perfect or might have huge problems performance/gameplay wise but at least it seems they care about developing games.

[zoukka]

At this point he could be giving away free beer and GAF would hate him.

This particular statement from him is ballsy and true.

[NinjaBoiX]

This really didn't need its on thread.

This post, however, was imperative.

[PairOfFilthySocks]

More developers need to share this attitude.

Come at me, GAF.

[Ogs]

More developers need to share this attitude. Come at me, GAF.

I agree with this.

[Messofanego]

Way to twist a statement akin to "We want to follow our creative vision" into a shitty attention-grabbing headline.

GAF Tabloids strike again!

[NinjaBoiX]

At this point he could be giving away free beer and GAF would hate him. This particular statement from him is ballsy and true.

It's blatantly not true. It's like saying, "I don't care if I lose my job, and my studio shuts down, as long as I like the game." He's not of sound mind if he genuinely doesn't care about the sales, especially with NT's record.

[Gbraga]

No one was even taking about Dantes design before in this thread until it was brought up to crap on the fanbase like it always is. Talk about falling right into the PR trap. Tameem wouldn't bring in top dmc players to test the game if he was making a game for himself.

To be fair, he said that making a game "only to the fans" would ruin it. And if the top DMC players do aprove this game by it's gameplay, plus Ninja Theory's narrative, I'd say they're right in ignoring the fans about things storywise.

Also, calling top players doesn't mean it's not the game he wants, what if he wants a gameplay as good as the previous ones? Than calling top players to voice their opinions after playing would actually help him to make the game he wants...

About the topic, whatever, just give us a realase date.

[test_account]

I dont see the big deal about this statement. He says "from that point of view" to begin with, so i'm pretty sure that he also knows, from another point of view, that sales matters.

[Xanathus]

Sounds like someone is on a fixed salary contract.

[Easy_D]

You know, from what I've seen I'd say this seems to be shaping up as a pretty good action game. Yeah maybe not what your hardcore DMC fan wants but as someone not invested in the series I'd say that it looks better than Heavenly Sword and Enslaved, at the very least

[PairOfFilthySocks]

It's blatantly not true. It's like saying, "I don't care if I lose my job, and my studio shuts down, as long as I like the game." He's not of sound mind if he genuinely doesn't care about the sales, especially with NT's record.

Read his quotes again. It's quite clear that what he means is that he wants to make a game that he wants to make, sales be damned. I'm assuming that, considering how he's one of the big-wigs at Ninja Theory, the people he recruits share the same attitude.

Some of you guys have let your DmC hate get to the point where you're damning a dev for not wanting to make a manufactured, focus-tested product. Come the fuck on.

[NinjaBoiX]

More developers need to share this attitude. Come at me, GAF.

You realise he is just saying what people want to hear right? Do you honestly think, as the head of the studio, that he doesn't care if the game sells or not? It's crowd pleasing empty talk, he doesn't mean a word of it, surely.

[Kusagari]

More developers need to share this attitude. Come at me, GAF.

I agree. Unfortunately NT's track record says they're not one of them.

[NinjaBoiX]

Read his quotes again. It's quite clear that what he means is that he wants to make a game that he wants to make, sales be damned. I'm assuming that, considering how he's one of the big-wigs at Ninja Theory, the people he recruits share the same attitude. Some of you guys have let your DmC hate get to the point where you're damning a dev for not wanting to make a manufactured, focus-tested product. Come the fuck on.

Yeah, I can see how you got that I'm down on the game from what I said, I pretty much typed it right?

I actually think it looks really good, and like HS and Enslaved, jank be damned. But when the head of a studio comes out and says, it can sell 1000 units for all I care, my bullshit detector goes a little nuts.

[PairOfFilthySocks]

I agree. Unfortunately NT's track record says they're not one of them.

What does this even mean? Because NT games are mediocre they should just give up trying to differentiate themselves and just design their game according to demographics statistics?

Edit:

Yeah, I can see how you got that I'm down on the game from what I said, I pretty much typed it right? I actually think it looks really good, and like HS and Enslaved, jank be damned. But when the head of a studio comes out and says, it can sell 1000 units for all I care, my bullshit detector goes a little nuts.

Of course he wouldn't want NT to go under, but he's saying that he doesn't want to undermine his creative license just to make ends meet. It's a similar attitude to what Free Radical had, judging by that recent interview with them. Probably not a healthy attitude in the current high-risk videogame climate, but it's an admirable one.

[BIONIC-ARRRMMM!!]

Read his quotes again. It's quite clear that what he means is that he wants to make a game that he wants to make, sales be damned. I'm assuming that, considering how he's one of the big-wigs at Ninja Theory, the people he recruits share the same attitude. Some of you guys have let your DmC hate get to the point where you're damning a dev for not wanting to make a manufactured, focus-tested product. Come the fuck on.

lol. If anything, DmC is the definition of a game that is focus tested to hell and back to appeal to the "neo-generation"

[Criminal Upper]

Tameem is the last person who you'd ask for advice on creating successfull video games.

[TheSeks]

You hear that, players? It's not for you.

Oh, yeah, well if DmC isn't for me my NeoGAF postings aren't for NeoGAF posters.

What does this even mean? Because NT games are mediocre they should just give up trying to differentiate themselves and just design their game according to demographics statistics?

*Commander Shepard Voice* ...Yes. At least then their games would sell before people go "DAMN! WE'VE BEEN HOODWINKED AGAIN!"

[Setero]

lol. If anything, DmC is the definition of a game that is focus tested to hell and back to appeal to the "neo-generation"

This is what I don't get, its been made clear from day one this game is being made to reach a larger market, yet he is trying to play off its failure to have mass appeal as artistic integrity and worse yet people are buying that.

[NinjaBoiX]

Of course he wouldn't want NT to go under, but he's saying that he doesn't want to undermine his creative license just to make ends meet. It's a similar attitude to what Free Radical had, judging by that recent interview with them. Probably not a healthy attitude in the current high-risk videogame climate, but it's an admirable one.

I just don't buy it. Words are cheap. It's easy to say something admirable, particularly when the result of said statement would be nigh on impossible to quantify. I like NT, I really do, and I want, and indeed think, DmC to be good. I just don't buy this statement. No biggie.

[zoukka]

I just don't buy it. Words are cheap. It's easy to say something admirable, particularly when the result of said statement would be nigh on impossible to quantify. I like NT, I really do, and I want, and indeed think, DmC to be good. I just don't buy this statement. No biggie.

This preceeded his comment about the sales:

He also said that the only way to make a successful game is to make a game that the developers themselves want to play.

This is a fact. Whether you believe it be the case with Tameem, should only depend on his prior work. If it seems like stone cold money grabbing Zynga style, then yeah the statement would sound like bogus.

[NinjaBoiX]

This is what I don't get, its been made clear from day one this game is being made to reach a larger market, yet he is trying to play off its failure to have mass appeal as artistic integrity and worse yet people are buying that.

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. Eloquently put good sir.

[gogogow]

To be fair to this guy, Capcom is to blame, they gave the DMC IP to this guys.

Of course he wouldn't want NT to go under, but he's saying that he doesn't want to undermine his creative license just to make ends meet. It's a similar attitude to what Free Radical had, judging by that recent interview with them. Probably not a healthy attitude in the current high-risk videogame climate, but it's an admirable one.

They got top DMC players to help him out, there's Hideaki Itsuna from Capcom Japan to help them out, the character designs has been altered a few times, what's left of his "creative license/vision"?

As a result, some are concerned that DmC will stray too far from the series' roots. But Jones said Capcom Japan was working closely with Ninja Theory to ensure the combat is up to scratch. "It's an intensely collaborative relationship, particularly in the character department," Jones said. "I can't tell you how painstaking and intensive it is. We are there three to five days out of the month with core creative from previous DMCs, most notably Itsuno-san (Hideaki Itsuno), who was the lead creative on DMC 2, 3 and 4. "He has done a huge knowledge transfer over the past two years working with these guys to make sure that part of the game was up to the standard Capcom believes a Devil May Cry game should achieve." "We went into this with a certain amount of humility," Antoniades explained, "understanding Capcom are master of their art when it comes to combat and mechanics and the role of enemies within that. We've been all ears and we've been working very closely. "The feedback has not just been an advisement, it's been precision. It's down to single frames make a difference. We've been working very closely and we're really pleased with that."

[Amalthea]

I can't wait to read his autobiography:

"Tameem Antoniades: What Tameem Antoniades wants from Tameem Antoniades: Tameem Antoniades' Quest of making classic gaming characters look like Tameem Antoniades"

[zoukka]

I can't wait to read his autobiography: "Tameem Antoniades: What Tameem Antoniades wants from Tameem Antoniades: Tameem Antoniades' Quest of making classic gaming characters look like Tameem Antoniades"

At one point you got banned for that meme.

[Amalthea]

At one point you got banned for that meme.

That was a meme? Should I delete it?

[zoukka]

That was a meme? Should I delete it?

I'm pretty sure it was for that dedicated thread only and I call it a meme because it gets blurted out in every DmC/Tameem thread :)

[aeolist]

I'm fine with this statement taken on its own but going by the last few games this dev has shitty taste so that just makes it kinda funny

[Massa]

To be fair to this guy, Capcom is to blame, they gave the DMC IP to this guys. They got top DMC players to help him out, there's Hideaki Itsuna from Capcom Japan to help them out, the character designs has been altered a few times, what's left of his "creative license/vision"?

Right, because iterating based on player feedback means sacrificing your creative vision. Please go tell that to Valve and Blizzard. Or don't, just continue to irrationally curse anything that comes out of this game.

[Amalthea]

I'm pretty sure it was for that dedicated thread only and I call it a meme because it gets blurted out in every DmC/Tameem thread :)

Just like every Michael Bay thread gets the "explosions lol" comments I guess.

[zoukka]

Just like every Michael Bay thread gets the "explosions lol" comments I guess.

One statement is a fact, the other just fanboy hatemail.

[V_Arnold]

That was a meme? Should I delete it?

It basically goes like this: I see someone using that "Taneem makes characters look like him" argument, and it just shows that there is no substance and nothing to learn from that post, only an undirected, rage-driven bashing. Fun for some, but ultimately very, very pointless and bears no fruit at the end of the day.

[Criminal Upper]

One statement is a fact, the other just fanboy hatemail.

Yeah, fanboys have been WAY too harsh on Bay.

[shinobi602]

It basically goes like this: I see someone using that "Taneem makes characters look like him" argument, and it just shows that there is no substance and nothing to learn from that post, only an undirected, rage-driven bashing. Fun for some, but ultimately very, very pointless and bears no fruit at the end of the day.

That's about half the posts on GAF.

[zoukka]

Yeah, fanboys have been WAY too harsh on Bay.

But all of his movies contain explosions and he even made a video of himself blowing shit up :b

That's about half the posts on GAF.

The line is drawn when people start to bash the guy himself, not his work. Like we used to have people calling some developers fat, ugly etc before.

[Criminal Upper]

But all of his movies contain explosions and he even made a video of himself blowing shit up :b

Well, to be fair, all of Temeem's work have similarities as well. They have had terrible combat systems, dip below 20 fps, and are all commercially unsuccessfull.

Going back on topic, I do think it's refreshing for a developer to say, "I don't care about sales" but at the same time, you should want to make a successfull product that people will buy so you can CONTINUE making products in the future. Capcom has blood on it's hands from a few developers already, Clover, Grin, etc. They will not bail you out if you underperform.

[Boss Doggie]

Maybe it's just me but I love how the argument is "but if it's x company people would eat it!"

What-ifs are nice but poor arguments :P

[Horse Armour]

Lol at the OP backlash.

[V_Arnold]

That's about half the posts on GAF.

There is a difference between describing what you do not like about Valve for example or showing a photo of Gabe as if his only relevant quality was his weight. That happens sometimes as well, and it is just as pointless - but not half of GAF. More like one percent, or even less :D

[Amalthea]

The line is drawn when people start to bash the guy himself, not his work. Like we used to have people calling some developers fat, ugly etc before.

Antoniades is neither fat nor ugly, he just seems to be so self-confident for no reason. At least Bay's shitty movies make a lot of money (sadly).

[Facism]

I hope he sacrifices some of that creative vision so i don't have to deal with a 22fps game if i buy for the ps3. Track record is none too good with framrates.

[zoukka]

[QUOTE=Criminal Upper;37666324]Well, to be fair, all of Temeem's work have similarities as well. They have had terrible combat systems, dip below 20 fps, and are all commercially unsuccessfull.[quote]

These are not design decisions.

Going back on topic, I do think it's refreshing for a developer to say, "I don't care about sales" but at the same time, you should want to make a successfull product that people will buy so you can CONTINUE making products in the future.

Many people still make games with the mentality, that if I make an awesome game, it will succeed. Crazy or not, it's a different debate.

[AHA-Lambda]

yeah you won't care because Capcom will have just paid your bills, but capcom? Yeah they'll be pissed if it only sells 1000 units ;)

[Clear]

This is the only attitude for devs to roll with.

You can't please everyone, and if you go chasing everyone's expectations you're just going to make things worse. Rightly or wrongly you need to have confidence in your vision for a project, especially when the internet doubts you.

As I said in another thread recently, its about having the integrity to stand by your creative decisions. You are going to get judged anyway, so you need the courage of your convictions.

[Pie and Beans]

Ninja Theory sounds done after this. I'm sure Tameem's personal brand of nigh on arrogance will continue to haunt the industry long afterwards though.

[szaromir]

But valve has made good games.

Not too many though.

[Gbraga]

For people that are not confident about this game:

If it was the same game, the same design, same everything, even 30fps, but with Capcom on charge and Itsuno directing it, would you be hyped? Because if so, I respect that, you're not confident Ninja Theory will deliver a gameplay worthy of the DMC series and will only believe by playing, I can really respect that. If you don't think you'd like it even so, then please elaborate because I honestly can't see why would you like the series in the first place. Instead you post yaoi of DMC on tumblr, than I can understand why you wouldn't like the game just because of the reboot.

[gogogow]

Right, because iterating based on player feedback means sacrificing your creative vision. Please go tell that to Valve and Blizzard. Or don't, just continue to irrationally curse anything that comes out of this game.

Hahaha, wow....you need to chill. What the hell are you talking about? I have never said anything bad about DmC. I only stated facts and asked how much of his creative vision is left, when NT is not the only ones deciding what to do in this game. While in the OP he's saying how he doesn't give a crap what players think and they make the game for themselves, while I showed it's not the case at all, since they are getting help from DMC players and Capcom. How am I "irrationally cursing anything about this game"? It seems YOU are the one irrationaly cursing ME for unknown reasons. Stop being so sensitive. I don't even know what Valve or Blizzard has to do with all this, Tameen Antoniades works for NT. What Valve or Blizzard does has nothing to do with NT/Tameem. Valve and Blizzard make good games, so why doesn't NT? See? There's no connection AT ALL.

[FrontalMonk]

I think he has a point, but is just really bad at expressing it. Like, to say "we're proud of what we've made and think it's an excellent game, and we hope you'll agree", sure it's a straight up PR line but its solid. Nothing wrong with that. The problem with this line to me is that he seems to forget some of the basic principles of a creative work - it goes through revisions, and iteration. I remember a Creative Writing prof telling me back in the day that you can write poetry for yourself and think it's great, but if you want it to be art that can be appreciated, you have to connect it to a shared human condition, that shared experience, those things that everyone goes through. It's not saying "you need to cater directly to your fans" but it's saying "you need to be relatable".