[Orayn]

It shares some common characteristics with traditional or "versus" fighting games while being dramatically different in other areas, and that's all that really needs to be said. Insisting on arbitrary genre distinctions is silly, and bickering about whose fuzzy, subjective definitions are best doesn't accomplish anything - We might as well be arguing about who would win on a three-sided conflict between The Federation, The Galactic Empire, and The Covenant.

[Regulus Tera]

almost every video game ever can be classified as an action game.

I suggest going back to the days when the only genres were Puzzle, Action, and Adventure.

It shares some common characteristics with traditional or "versus" fighting games while being dramatically different in others, and that's all that really needs to be said. Insisting on arbitrary genre distinctions is silly and bickering about it doesn't accomplish anything - We might as well be arguing about who would win on a three-sided conflict between The Federation, The Galactic Empire, and The Covenant.

The Daleks.

[Professor Beef]

so because they wanted the ruleset to be more competitive they were whiny fucks?

Wanting to change the rules to be more competitive isn't a bad thing. How they went about it is what I had a problem with.

[Cipherr]

Yeah, because is not, Smash is a beat´em up / party game.

You don't know what a beatemup is then. Like someone said, Double Dragon is a beatem'up. Smash is a fighting game. Adding 2 more players and items doesn't cause a game to change genres, it causes it to become a game, in said genre, that has 4 players and items. But the base genre does not change.

If Rampage and Battletoads had player vs player on a single screen they would be more like Smash than any fighting game. Guardian Heroes has pvp, guess what game it resembles more: Smash, or King of Fighters? Would you say Guardian Heroes is a Fighting game?

No, I would say guardian heroes is a beatemup with a fighting game mode. The same way Guardian Heroes stat allocations don't suddenly make it an RPG. It merely becomes a Beatemup with RPG elements. Modes and options do not change the games base genre.

[Karsticles]

Is Virtual On a Fighting game? Zone of the ender's vs. mode? Action games

I prefer to think of "action" as a gameplay type more than a genre. It's like how people call Zelda an "adventure" game - what the hell does that even mean?

[danmaku]

While the game is obviously a fighting game, albeit a non conventional one, it's true that the Smash community looks quite secluded from the rest of the FGC. By looking at tournament streams, I get the impression that Smash is rarely mixed with other games. You either have Smash OR all other fighters. I might be wrong, but it seems that the two communities don't go along very well.

[Anth0ny]

Jesus fuck, some people seriously can't let this topic die. They did, but the Smash Community in all their whiny glory, ruined things by constantly complaining about (some) items being allowed. Instead of being happy that Smash was being showcased, they ended up killing it. It's one of the reasons why I'm fucking done with the community as a whole. The majority of players are a bunch of hypocritical whiny fucks that don't give a shit about expanding the scene at all, and complain when things don't go their way. Yes, I'm aware one could potentially make this argument about fighting games and players NOW, but I'm talking about BEFORE such things as Cross Assault and the like. The MLG Incident and the drama that was created afterwards is the perfect god damned example. I wish I could go back in time to when I cared about competitive Smash, slap Past Beef in the face, and tell him to concentrate on Capcom vs. SNK 2 instead.

clarification: the melee tournament at evo 2k7 had the highest attendance that year after marvel 2.

it was brawl at evo 2k8 that fucked everything up. To be fair, the the time, evo wasn't the juggernaut it is today (thanks to the sf4 boom in 09). I'm sure if smash 4 was offered a spot on the roster, the smash community would be there.

[K701]

Modes and options do not change the games base genre.

Smash is based on Kirby Super Star.

[The Xtortionist]

it was brawl at evo 2k8 that fucked everything up. To be fair, the the time, evo wasn't the juggernaut it is today (thanks to the sf4 boom in 09). I'm sure if smash 4 was offered a spot on the roster, the smash community would be there.

If there's a god he'll convince Nintendo to license Smash streaming rights to MLG.

Melee in MLG was so fucking hype. I want that back.

[Regulus Tera]

Smash is based on Kirby Super Star.

But Kirby Super Star is decidedly not a beat 'em up.

[Metal B]

Sakurai get his inspiration for Smash Brothers gameplay from fighting-games and Sumo-Fighting (damaging your opponent to ring him out). So if you wanna say that SSB is not a fighting game, you also have to say that sumo is not a fighting style and E. Honda is the only non-fighter in Street Fighter 2.

[tearsofash]

I hate to be the gal that says "who cares" because I know it defeats the purpose of intellectual debate in a public forum. It's a fun game. I consider it action platforming styled after a fighting game.

Is the 2-4 player modes in New Super Mario Bros Wii considered a fighting game?

I think it's moot to argue over Nintendo's game genres. Whether it's Zelda being an RPG or Smash being a fighter. They are games. Games that are fun. That's the main point. yeah?

[Regulus Tera]

Sakurai get his inspiration for Smash Brothers gameplay from fighting-games and Sumo-Fighting (damaging your opponent to ring him out). So if you wanna say that SSB is not a fighting game, you also have to say that sumo is not a fighting style and E. Honda is the only non-fighter in Street Fighter 2.

What's Blanka's fighting style supposed to be?

I hate to be the gal that says "who cares" because I know it defeats the purpose of intellectual debate in a public forum. It's a fun game. I consider it action platforming styled after a fighting game. Is the 2-4 player modes in New Super Mario Bros Wii considered a fighting game? I think it's moot to argue over Nintendo's game genres. Whether it's Zelda being an RPG or Smash being a fighter. They are games. Games that are fun. That's the main point. yeah?

This analogy doesn't apply because the multiplayer modes in NSMBW are not about fighting each other.

[K701]

But Kirby Super Star is decidedly not a beat 'em up.

You are right. Take it up with who made the base argument :)

[Cipherr]

Smash is based on Kirby Super Star.

I don't know what point you are really trying to make with that. /shrug.

While the game is obviously a fighting game, albeit a non conventional one, it's true that the Smash community looks quite secluded from the rest of the FGC.-

Rightfully so. Everything I have ever seen and heard about the Smash community has been terrible. Theres no shock noone wants anything to do with them TBH.

You are right. Take it up with who made the base argument :)

Take what up? I don't see your point. If you have one, say it. Because that was just vague for no reason. There have been RPG's based off of fighting games, what it was inspired by also does not dictate the genre of the final product. I don't see where you are going; pointing out what the game was inspired by, nor how it has any relevance to what I said.



Smash Bros. history is no secret.

[Regulus Tera]

You are right. Take it up with who made the base argument :)

You've already lost me.

[Karsticles]

I hate to be the gal that says "who cares" because I know it defeats the purpose of intellectual debate in a public forum. It's a fun game. I consider it action platforming styled after a fighting game. Is the 2-4 player modes in New Super Mario Bros Wii considered a fighting game? I think it's moot to argue over Nintendo's game genres. Whether it's Zelda being an RPG or Smash being a fighter. They are games. Games that are fun. That's the main point. yeah?

If everyone just kept to themselves, it would be fine, but the fact is that Smash Bros fans want to do things like play at fighting game tournaments. If the fighting game community doesn't believe Smash Bros is a fighting game, that causes a problem. Smash Bros fans want integration and acceptance. (clearly some don't, of course)

What's Blanka's fighting style supposed to be?

Bowling ball style!

[Barrow Roll]

Gotta wonder how many people here actually watched the video before posting. Yeesh.

[Foxy Fox 39]

Smash is based on Kirby Super Star.

Smash bros 64 was a straight up fighting game. The series then evolved to include an beat-em up single player mode in melee.

[FyreWulff]

It's a fighting game based off of sumo wrestling. So yes.

[The Xtortionist]

Smash bros 64 was a straight up fighting game. The series then evolved to include an beat-em up single player mode in melee.

Same with Tekken

[Professor Beef]

I'm sure if smash 4 was offered a spot on the roster, the smash community would be there.

LOL @ thinking any Smash game is ever going to be back at EVO. After that Brawl situation, I'd be shocked to see it as a side-event.

If there's a god he'll convince Nintendo to license Smash streaming rights to MLG. Melee in MLG was so fucking hype. I want that back.

It'll never happen, but it's nice to dream. You can thank Mew2King.

[K701]

You've already lost me.

Im saying it was cypherr who made the argument that the base of a game doesn't change no matter the modes or options you add.

[Gravijah]

Im saying it was cypherr who made the argument that the base of a game doesn't change no matter the modes or options you add.

he was arguing about the genre.

[Foxy Fox 39]

Same with Tekken

I find it funny this guy is trying to disclude smash because of a secondary mode that was later added in the series' life.

[Boss Doggie]

I think it's generally an action game with combative elements.

With that said, the disparity has more to do with the FG community being scum as a whole.

[The Xtortionist]

It'll never happen, but it's nice to dream. You can thank Mew2King.

I'm fuming just thinking about it. These aren't mom n' pop grassroots $50 prize pool tournaments. Show some fucking professionalism, no only to your fellow players but also for MLG supporting your fucking game and giving you something more than a few bucks to play for. Fucking amateurs.

[IrishNinja]

hahaha how is this even a debate

K701, what about smash makes it not a fighting game

[tearsofash]

This analogy doesn't apply because the multiplayer modes in NSMBW are not about fighting each other.

I think that's why it does apply. You look at NSMBW and how they aren't "fighting" but think about what little you would actually have to add to make it "fighting".

EDIT: fighting in quotes because genres are weird, but I'm trying to play along.

[ShdwDrake]

Meh I guess you can say smash is a fighting game. But whatever genre it is it's still fun as hell and isn't that all that matters.

I don't think smash is a fighting game. But I also don't think me2 is an rpg. So my opinion might be moot.

[Metal B]

Smash bros 64 was a straight up fighting game. The series then evolved to include an beat-em up single player mode in melee.

That's the reason Capcom never develops any good single player modes, because with them you are not a fighting-game anymore.

What's Blanka's fighting style supposed to be?

Ok, the second non-fighter ...

[timetokill]

I just don't get this whole argument. It's clearly a fighting game. I don't even know how you could argue otherwise.

Are people just upset that it's a fighting game that is more popular than the others pretty much combined? That the barrier to entry is low enough to encourage newcomers and doesn't promote the "exclusive no-scrubs club" like the fighting community usually loves to do?

[K701]

hahaha how is this even a debate K701, what about smash makes it not a fighting game

THIS

*grabs dick*

[Regulus Tera]

I think that's why it does apply. You look at NSMBW and how they aren't "fighting" but think about what little you would actually have to add to make it "fighting".

A KO-system, basically? That seems to be the one link between all these titles. And under that pretension every game ever could be a fighting game.

[Professor Beef]

I'm fuming just thinking about it. These aren't mom n' pop grassroots $50 prize pool tournaments. Show some fucking professionalism, no only to your fellow players but also for MLG supporting your fucking game and giving you something more than a few bucks to play for. Fucking amateurs.

Like I said, thank Mew2King for fucking it up for everyone else. It pissed plenty of people off at the time, so you are not alone in your anger.

[Boss Doggie]

Are people just upset that it's a fighting game that is more popular than the others pretty much combined? That the barrier to entry is low enough to encourage newcomers and doesn't promote the "exclusive no-scrubs club" like the fighting community usually loves to do?

Just go visit SRK and see the seething hate. But yeah, mostly that.

I can't wait for the complete hypocrisy when they welcome PSASB. :P

[Foxy Fox 39]

I think that's why it does apply. You look at NSMBW and how they aren't "fighting" but think about what little you would actually have to add to make it "fighting". EDIT: fighting in quotes because genres are weird, but I'm trying to play along.

huh?

[Chet Rippo]

THIS *grabs dick*

wat

[GamerSoul]

Not that I care what it is labeled as, I think its flexibility and depth allows it to behave as a fighting game if that's what needed of it. It is more than just a fighter and it's better because of that fact.

It'll never happen, but it's nice to dream. You can thank Mew2King.

What did he do exactly? And did it involve MetaKnight? lulz

[Bleep]

It's absolutely insane to me that people care what genre a game is considered.

[DragonSworne]

Smash bro is an RPG, you are playing the roles nintendo characters.

I would go as far as saying it is an RPG in the truest sense and form.

[The Xtortionist]

What did he do exactly? And did it involve MetaKnight? lulz

Conspiracy to manipulate match outcomes.

[Conceited]

With that said, the disparity has more to do with the FG community being scum as a whole.

Yep, look at these scumbags raising over $20,000 and shaving their heads for childrens charity, truly the lowest of the low.

It drives me crazy when ignorant people spread ignorance about the FGC. Either educate yourself or keep your uninformed opinions off the internet.

[Foxy Fox 39]

Smash bro is an RPG, you are playing the roles nintendo characters. I would go as far as saying it is an RPG in the truest sense and form.

You're playing as star fox for instance, but are you really playing his role?

I can be dressed up as a mailman...but my role is to be able to deliver your mail without you ever noticing I opened it. Me getting into fights all day isn't really a mailman RPG.

[Foxy Fox 39]

Yep, look at these scumbags raising over $20,000 and shaving their heads for childrens charity, truly the lowest of the low. It drives me crazy when ignorant people spread ignorance about the FGC. Either or educate yourself or keep your uninformed opinions off the internet.

I hate to burst your bubble...but....

[GamerSoul]

Conspiracy to manipulate match outcomes.

ouch. One of the last things you ever want to do in any sport.

[CorvoSol]

Is Dissidia a fighting game guys? It's certainly not a beat 'em up. edit: GOD FUCKING DAMMIT WONKEY

Nobody knows what Dissidia is.

The Daleks.

The Daleks declared war on the Galactic Empire, so they sent Their Beloved Son to do the deed. His name was R2D2.

[danmaku]

Conspiracy to manipulate match outcomes.

Well, that pretty much proves that Smash isn't random!

[Conceited]

On topic, Smash is a party fighting game to me, I don't see it as competitive.

I hate to burst your bubble...but....

Do you have a point you'd like to make?

[Kokonoe]

Great video.

good video. I love how people in this thread are claiming otherwise. Did you not watch the video? A game does not have to be a Street Fighter clone to be considered a fighting game.

Seems so. The video proved Smash Bros(especially Melee) is indeed a "Fighting Game".