[OttomanScribe]

Hey TravelGAF. Anyone been to any of the above (Western China, Kyrgyzstan, Northern Pakistan) and feel like offering any advice? I am to be travelling the region in about a month or so.

[Farooq]

Don't go to Northern Pakistan.

Unless you want to visit the Kalasha People

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uld8pPGN5cM

They are interesting people.

[Steelrain]

Uh...watch out for those drones.

[kittoo]

Why?

[numble]

I was in Xinjiang last in 7 years ago. Even then, the guidebooks had already been outdated and the places were more modern/Sino-ized then described.

Things were really cheap compared to the rest of China, but since you're not going anywhere else in China, that probably isn't as helpful.

Anyway, Xinjiang is supposed to be different depending on where you are. Urumqi is different from Kashgar is different from Turpan, etc. I'd be interested in hearing about your travels there.

[OttomanScribe]

Uh...watch out for those drones.

Not that part of Pakistan lol. Where we are thinking of going there is barely anyone, let alone some Talibs to be blown up.

I was in Xinjiang last in 7 years ago. Even then, the guidebooks had already been outdated and the places were more modern/Sino-ized then described.

Cool :) what stood out?

Why?

Why not?

[numble]

Not that part of Pakistan lol. Where we are thinking of going there is barely anyone, let alone some Talibs to be blown up. Cool :) what stood out? Why not?

Just that there were a lot more Han Chinese than I expected, even in Kashgar. Also the Sunday Market in Kashgar seemed to have been split up with half moved into modern facilities. Maybe that's changed now.

Seeing Arabic script on all the signs, people wearing burqas, caps, and headdresses, and then seeing a big old statue of Mao, etc. It probably stands out more coming from someone that has seen lots of the rest of China, it looks very different from the rest of China.

[OttomanScribe]

Just that there were a lot more Han Chinese than I expected, even in Kashgar. Also the Sunday Market in Kashgar seemed to have been split up with half moved into modern facilities. Maybe that's changed now. Seeing Arabic script on all the signs, people wearing burqas, caps, and headdresses, and then seeing a big old statue of Mao, etc. It probably stands out more coming from someone that has seen lots of the rest of China, it looks very different from the rest of China.

Yeah, that is what we are expecting. We are going from Beijing overland to there. We were going to go to Mongolia too but it was too hard to organise with our limited time.

[Fezan]

For north Pakistan try nanga parbit and swat really beautifull areas.there is also lake saif-ul-malook. also do visit Kashmir

[PoweredBySoy]

Why can't you just take a Caribbean cruise like everybody else?

[Farooq]

Do you intend on visiting some Sufi shrines in Pakistan?

Edit: Or some Mughal architecture? The northern regions of Pakistan are beautiful though.

[OttomanScribe]

Do you intend on visiting some Sufi shrines in Pakistan?

Nah, we aren't going far into Pakistan, mainly to see scenery, rather than any major cities. Are you familiar with them?

[OttomanScribe]

Why can't you just take a Caribbean cruise like everybody else?

No Bactrian camels in the Caribbean. Also I'm from Australia, that stuff is way expensive.

[mr. puppy]

this may surprise you, but there are mountains and lakes in parts of the world that arent war zones or p[laces where you probably going to be kidnapped

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

Go nowhere that ends in Stan.

[OttomanScribe]

this may surprise you, but there are mountains and lakes in parts of the world that arent war zones or p[laces where you probably going to be kidnapped

Which of the places mentioned am I likely to be kidnapped in or are a warzone?

Also I am mainly going for the food if I'm honest.

Additionally these are historically very significant regions, being placed along the Silk Road. Some of the architecture is absolutely amazing.

Just because it is Pakistan doesn't mean I am going to get hit by drones, I am not going to Swat or even a major city. It might make getting back into Australia a bit hard but whatever.

[Farooq]

Nah, we aren't going far into Pakistan, mainly to see scenery, rather than any major cities. Are you familiar with them?

I have been to Swat, when it was the Switzerland of South Asia 15 years ago, never been since. The northern regions are beautiful though.

I have seen a couple of Sufi shrines in Multan, I think one of them was bombed a year ago.

I have seen some Mughal architecture like the Badashi mosque in Lahore.



It is a shame you can't make it to Mongolia though. It was one of the greatest experiences I have been through. There are very little tourists, and it's like the entire country is there for you to explore and discover. It can be lush in one area, and a desert in another. Amazing country.

[Phantast2k]

I'd imagine that you could turn up on some Australian intelligence terror suspect list if you went there. However I guess that outright Waziristan & Dagestan instead of Kyrgyzstan would be worse in that regard, lol
on topic: haven't been to any of these places.

hf

[RamzaIsCool]

Their language resembles Turkish (Kyrgyzstan, Xinjiang), so if you listen carefully you can make out what they are saying (if you know Turkish that is).

[RustyNails]

Why can't you just take a Caribbean cruise like everybody else?

Yes and become irritated by overcrowded disney families

[OttomanScribe]

I have been to Swat, when it was the Switzerland of South Asia 15 years ago, never been since. The northern regions are beautiful though. I have seen a couple of Sufi shrines in Multan, I think one of them was bombed a year ago. I have seen some Mughal architecture like the Badashi mosque in Lahore. It is a shame you can't make it to Mongolia though. It was one of the greatest experiences I have been through. There are very little tourists, and it's like the entire country is there for you to explore and discover. It can be lush in one area, and a desert in another. Amazing country.

Cool. Yeah I'm spewing too. It would be difficult on a few levels unfortunately.

The kind of shrines I want to see are mostly in Sirhind, rather than northern Pakistan. Unless you know of any Mujadidi Naqshabandi ones in that region?

Their language resembles Turkish (Kyrgyzstan, Xinjiang), so if you listen carefully you can make out what they are saying (if you know Turkish that is).

Yeah, they are Turkic after all. Don't know Turkish tho. Pity.

I'd imagine that you could turn up on some Australian intelligence terror suspect list if you went there. However I guess that outright Waziristan & Dagestan instead of Kyrgyzstan would be worse in that regard, lol

Probably already am mate. Though if I do nothing wrong they aren't gonna extraordinary rendition me right? :)

[Zapages]

Which of the places mentioned am I likely to be kidnapped in or are a warzone? Also I am mainly going for the food if I'm honest. Additionally these are historically very significant regions, being placed along the Silk Road. Some of the architecture is absolutely amazing. Just because it is Pakistan doesn't mean I am going to get hit by drones, I am not going to Swat or even a major city. It might make getting back into Australia a bit hard but whatever.

I have been Murree (about 3x) and Swat (1x) in Pakistan... Both are nice. Murree is more like a city than anything else from last visit. (I went when I was like 12 or 13 years old to Swat with my Family). As you are from Australia everything will new there compared to where I live (north western NJ)... Also Murree more like a weekend trip type of thing.

Where exactly do you want to travel in Pakistan. You'll need to go to Islamabad/Rawalpindi at least to get to the northern regions of Pakistan. I know because, we tried to go to Gilgit and it was tough due to weather and lack of good roads or rock debris back in the mid 90s. Its a lot better

So you want to go to Gilgit and Skardu area?

http://wikitravel.org/en/Gilgit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilgit-Baltistan
http://www.mygilgit.com/Gilgit/touri...t-pakistan.php

Concordia Travels? You can try to get contact with them to arrange a trip around the area: http://www.concordiaexpeditions.com/...-road-trip.htm

If not Concordia, other travel agencies/tours folks there:
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/pakistan...tit/activities

http://www.hgp.com.pk/

They already do some trips. I hope this helps. :)

As for security concerns, its safe from my experience as there were tourists there from all over the world back in 2005 (Murree). Good luck and safe travels. :)

[Messofanego]

Murree is an absolute must (went 2 years ago), who needs Switzerland when we got this?! You need to go to Islamabad first to get there. 40km ride. Wish I had my pics on my current laptop :(





I filled my water bottle with ICE-COLD water flowing right down from the mountain. Climbing the rocks is a lot of fun. Also, the chair lift ride is awesome because there's no safety, first time being in one of them!



At the top is an amusement park where sometimes you can walk among the clouds.


Just make sure you get a good hotel and driver, some of the drivers can end up feeling like beggars asking you for money to eat. We obliged, but I'd rather they stick to their one job that we're paying them for.

Oh yeah, Monkey Point is pretty cool.

[Kentpaul]

you couldn't pay me to visit they places and I'm pretty open to travel.

[GusBus]

you couldn't pay me to visit they places and I'm pretty open to travel.

This. I also find it hard to believe that this is actually safe. Are you going solo or with a group?

[Ghost_Protocol]

Oh yeah, Monkey Point is pretty cool.

Is it just me, or does feeding animals that have arms you can just hand food to feel a little surreal? I've done it in the zoo once or twice and it always feels weird...

[R2D4]

I wonder if those hikers that got arrested and put on trail in Iran started a thread like this on some forum before hand?

[Chairman Yang]

Also I am mainly going for the food if I'm honest.

Tell me more...what's the food like?

[OG Kush]

I've been Swat, Muree and Nanga parbat. All amazing places, so beautiful and people are really friendly. No Talibans etc. Taliban is such a small percentage in pakistan and only in certain areas. people acting like talibans patrol all the streets and shit! Many tourists there, you'll be fine. Amazing food as well. The fresh naan, the chai, the chicken, everything.

ill upload a video soon as well.

[Messofanego]

Is it just me, or does feeding animals that have arms you can just hand food to feel a little surreal? I've done it in the zoo once or twice and it always feels weird...

It's a bit weird, but I just think of them as mini humans. I'm sure someone has done a crazy handshake with a monkey.

[DY_nasty]

I like skydiving and shoot throwing military grade explosives with friends...

but I still wouldn't up and significantly raise my odds of seriousfuckingharm by visiting an area that the entire world sees as "fucked up".

[The Internet]

The furthest north I've been to Pakistan is Murray, but it's alot more touristy. You got balls bro.

[Chairman Yang]

I've been Swat, Muree and Nanga parbat. All amazing places, so beautiful and people are really friendly. No Talibans etc. Taliban is such a small percentage in pakistan and only in certain areas. people acting like talibans patrol all the streets and shit!

It's not exactly crazy to think so. I mean, three years ago there was a battle in Swat involving tens of thousands of combatants and millions of refugees.

[OG Kush]

Maybe because I am Pakistani so I don't see it the way foreigners do, but still when I went with my family, plenty of women without burkas, everyone was chill, saw many people smoking hash, very chill place IMO.
heres a video of a little road stop on way to muree:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwhMSXIFuC4
don't know if it shows much, but at this stop there were even women and men playing music and its not shown in the video, they were all dancing, none of this sharia law banning music etc.
OP i suggest searching for videos on which areas you want to go to and see for yourself. Also find out from non-pakistanis what they're experience was like.

Look at this stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtMHs8WiLSU
Good documentary called Jouney to the ends of Pakistan:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_ceraNj650
A video of someone's K2 expedition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhLkSyM923U

look at this beautiful scenery:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3stHtVh9jM

[shagg_187]

Go nowhere that ends in Stan.

Afghanistan
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Pakistan
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan
Hindustan

Do tell more please...

[Lamel]

MURREE in pakistan.

It is amazing. The ride there even is exhilarating, let's see if you don't crap your pants.

[shagg_187]

MURREE in pakistan. It is amazing. The ride there even is exhilarating, let's see if you don't crap your pants.

As amazing Murree is, it's overcrowded at times.

[tino]

You sound like a spy.

Which country are you working for?

[FStop7]

Oh yeah, Monkey Point is pretty cool.

"Hello, I'm Bob!"

"Hi, Bob! I'm monkey. Welcome."

[OttomanScribe]

Are you going solo or with a group?

With my wife. :)

Where exactly do you want to travel in Pakistan. You'll need to go to Islamabad/Rawalpindi at least to get to the northern regions of Pakistan. I know because, we tried to go to Gilgit and it was tough due to weather and lack of good roads or rock debris back in the mid 90s. Its a lot better

Thanks bro. We will not be flying into Islamabad. We will be going down through China to get to the North. Not sure where abouts exactly. Wife has all the plans lol. Might go to Kashmir?

It's a bit weird, but I just think of them as mini humans. I'm sure someone has done a crazy handshake with a monkey.

Monkeys are like little furry psychopaths, no joke.

Tell me more...what's the food like?

Heavenly. This is the silk road we are talking about. They had 500 odd years to pick all the best spices :D

I booked to seats back on the plane to encompass my girth.

[OG Kush]

Oh shiz, Ottoman, you're Muslim right? If so you won't have a problem in Pakistan. Sad to say in a way, but its kind of true. But, man what an experience it will be hearing the Adhaan while standing over some amazing landscapes.

[Haly]

Steal the secrets of Xinjiang barbeque.

[OttomanScribe]

Oh shiz, Ottoman, you're Muslim right? If so you won't have a problem in Pakistan. Sad to say in a way, but its kind of true. But, man what an experience it will be hearing the Adhaan while standing over some amazing landscapes.

Yeah bro. Figured as much. Though I anticipate still having to pay my fair share of 'administrative fees' lol.

[OttomanScribe]

Steal the secrets of Xinjiang barbeque.

I'll do my best, but I am afraid I will be two busy eating the secrets of Xinjiang barbeque.

[numble]

Remember that in some places in Xinjiang, things run on different time zones, so make sure if you book a time for something, you know whether it is the official Beijing time (China runs on one time zone) or the unofficial "local" time zone, which can be 2 hours later:
http://www.davidwong.com/2004/09/06.html

I don't remember too well, but I think it may even differ within Xinjiang. Kashgar's unofficial local time might be an hour later than Urumqi's unofficial time.

[OttomanScribe]

Remember that in some places in Xinjiang, things run on different time zones, so make sure if you book a time for something, you know whether it is the official Beijing time (China runs on one time zone) or the unofficial "local" time zone, which can be 2 hours later: http://www.davidwong.com/2004/09/06.html I don't remember too well, but I think it may even differ within Xinjiang. Kashgar's unofficial local time might be an hour later than Urumqi's unofficial time.

Wow. Thanks! I hadn't heard that!

[CRD90]

Don't have a clue about the geography of Pakistan, but...

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...eania/pakistan

Always find that site pretty useful. Dunno if any of the mentioned cities are in the north.

[OttomanScribe]

Don't have a clue about the geography of Pakistan, but... http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travel-and-...eania/pakistan Always find that site pretty useful. Dunno if any of the mentioned cities are in the north.

Most of em are West. No way I would go anywhere near Quetta. Even though I'm Muslim I would probably still be taken as a spy without someone to vouch for me.

[Nemo]

Yes yes YES! The landscape there is some of the most beautiful in the whole world! Definitely want to go there once in life, enjoy it bro!

[OttomanScribe]

Yes yes YES! The landscape there is some of the most beautiful in the whole world! Definitely want to go there once in life, enjoy it bro!

Glad someone gets it! :D

I hopefully will :) Will post up pictures from the trip when we get back (leaving in a month or so) God willing.