[Steelrain]

Lol what a shitty parent.

[Soule]

I know what you're saying, and I can see the rationality behind it. But please try to keep in mind that I'm not suggesting she should have fought back or anything like that. I'm just saying she shouldn't have left her child behind. That's all, nothing more.

Well I'm sure if you sat her down and asked her what she'd do in this situation before it happened, abandon child probably wouldn't be near the top of the list.

[hey_it's_that_dog]

A reasonable rebuttal I can respect. Agree to disagree, only because I think parental instinct supersedes survival instincts.

This is an empirical question so your opinion is irrelevant. Unless you mean that you personally believe that in every case a person's parental instinct should supercede their survival instinct, which makes no sense because a person doesn't get to choose which of their instincts is stronger and you certainly don't get to make moral judgments about it.

[Risible]

For fucks sake...Situations like these don't lead to a pause in the action where you get to choose between Renegade and Paragon actions. She flipped her shit at the sight of a knife. Hell, most people react to a knife more extremely than they do a gun.

Please don't bring hyperbole into it. I never said there was a pause in the action for some binary decision.

However, think about the multitude of stories you've read or seen in the news where when confronted by danger a parent puts their life on the line to save their child. I think in the majority of cases parental instincts trump fight or flight instincts. I posit that this women cared
more about herself or her pocketbook than the child.

And why are you so angry?

[Sentry]

the whole point behind fight or flight is that she didn't think anything except maybe "OH FUCK" or thoughts to fast to even keep track of

True, but even if you don't believe that's what happened here, the argument that she didn't think her daughter would be in danger is incomprehensible imo.

[Dunlop]

A reasonable rebuttal I can respect. Agree to disagree, only because I think parental instinct supersedes survival instincts.

Either way they are both instincts which pretty much removes the whole point of your argument.

I was in a crowded elevator once that broke down, one person was instantly on the floor rocking in fetal position and crying like an animal. Right before hand she was cracking jokes with her peers. Pretty sure the reaction was out of her control.

[Air Zombie Meat]

I don't understand because the choice was "hand over the pocketbook" or "run and leave my daughter behind". She hadn't been stabbed at that point. She chose her pocketbook over her daughter.

Did she really though? Or did she just shit herself and freak out? I'd say the latter is the much more likely of the two. I'm going to say that the chances of someone caring more about a purse than a child they gave birth to and raised are extremely slim.

[Kyoufu]

What the fuck is wrong with people? :/

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Please don't bring hyperbole into it. I never said there was a pause in the action for some binary decision. However, think about the multitude of stories you've read or seen in the news where when confronted by danger a parent puts their life on the line to save their child. I think in the majority of cases parental instincts trump fight or flight instincts. I posit that this women cared more about herself or her pocketbook than the child. And why are you so angry?

Just because this case is an exception to the majority doesn't mean she consciously cared more about herself and her pocketbook. Given that instincts vary, it should not be surprising that once in a while a different instinct wins out. As it is not surprising, it doesn't require a special explanation. The simplest explanation is that her instinct played out differently than in the majority of cases. This is not necessarily something she can be blamed for.

[Zaptruder]

I know what you're saying, and I can see the rationality behind it. But please try to keep in mind that I'm not suggesting she should have fought back or anything like that. I'm just saying she shouldn't have left her child behind. That's all, nothing more.

You say you know, but then contradict that knowledge immediately by continuing to insist that she shouldn't have left her child behind.

Of course she shouldn't have left her child behind. But why blame the victim in this situation? What purpose does it serve?

Do you wish not to acknowledge the irrationality and panic that grips people in duress?

[DonasaurusRex]

i was not prepared for the video she didnt stick around long at all lol.

[CornBurrito]

A reasonable rebuttal I can respect. Agree to disagree, only because I think parental instinct supersedes survival instincts.

And I'd say that this is evidence against that idea.

[Meccanical]

What.

[Dubbedinenglish]

I hope they catch that piece of shit. People in here jumping on the mom? WTF is wrong with you? Tell us about the time you and your kid were in the same situation and about what you did.

Well my dad and I were held at gunpoint when I was 10. He didn't run, nor did I.

This woman's actions are indefensible. Not one enev fleeting action to help her kid. Robber could've taken the kid and ran.

[Seraphinianus]

True, but even if you don't believe that's what happened here, the argument that she didn't think her daughter would be in danger is incomprehensible imo.

i agree. more importantly, i think arguing about what she was thinking and what she should have done is an exercise only for beard stroking internet geniuses

[hey_it's_that_dog]

You say you know, but then contradict that knowledge immediately by continuing to insist that she shouldn't have left her child behind. Of course she shouldn't have left her child behind. But why blame the victim in this situation? What purpose does it serve? Do you wish not to acknowledge the irrationality and panic that grips people in duress?

Maybe the misunderstanding here is that Gatismo thinks that because some of us are explaining how this could have happened in such a way that exculpates the woman from blame, he thinks we don't also think it was a bad outcome, and that of course it would have been better if she had tried to get her child to safety.

[Izick]

Knew it! The way you phrased the title and left "heroically" in there at the end gave it away.

Um...anyways, that's just fucking shitty. What an awful parent.

[BobLoblaw]

Did she really though? Or did she just shit herself and freak out? I'd say the latter is the much more likely of the two. I'm going to say that the chances of someone caring more about a purse than a child they gave birth to and raised are extremely slim.

Unless the person is, in fact, a shitty parent. Let's be honest, many (maybe even most) parents nowadays are shitty parents. They don't watch what their kids eat. They don't know who their child's "friends" are. They don't pay attention to what their kids watch on tv. Is it so hard to believe that she was literally just a shitty parent?

In my experience, most good parents ALWAYS value their child's life over their own. If someone comes after you, you put the child behind you and attempt to defend the both of you. You don't run off and leave your child BEFORE you're even attacked. Only animals do something like that and that's usually because their child has been attacked and killed by a predator. Humans are supposed to be beyond that.

[CornBurrito]

Well my dad and I were held at gunpoint when I was 10. He didn't run, nor did I. This woman's actions are indefensible. Not one enev fleeting action to help her kid. Robber could've taken the kid and ran.

Here is a startling fact I am about to reveal to you. Individuals are DIFFERENT!

:O

Huge shocker I know, but get this, some people react differently to life threatening situations.

[789shadow]

Don't attack anyone in NeoGAF, they will definitely kick your ass.

Maybe.

[Wolf Dawgz]

Here is a startling fact I am about to reveal to you. Individuals are DIFFERENT! :O Huge shocker I know, but get this, some people react differently to life threatening situations.

She reacted differently in a shitty way. Which is why people are calling her a crappy parent. What's the problem with this?

[DY_nasty]

Please don't bring hyperbole into it. I never said there was a pause in the action for some binary decision.

If you're going to say that there was time to decide, then you're saying that there is a pause for that decision to take place.

And how do you decipher one's anger through the internet? Are you a wizard?

[CornBurrito]

She reacted differently in a shitty way. Which is why people are calling her a crappy parent. What's the problem with this?

Because I don't believe that people are able to consciously control their fight or flight response.

[Jeff-DSA]

Wow. If a man pulled a knife out on my wife with my son anywhere nearby, she might get cut up, but that guy isn't walking away without losing quite a bit of his own blood. There's no chance in the world that she would ever take a step anywhere but between the danger and my kid.

Panic makes people do weird things, but overriding the mother's instinct to protect their child seems like it was a result of straight up cowardice.

[Hari Seldon]

Dude should definitely get attempted murder charges for the knife to the throat area though.

[DY_nasty]

Because I don't believe that people are able to consciously control their fight or flight response.

...why?

[gatisimo]

This is an empirical question so your opinion is irrelevant. Unless you mean that you personally believe that in every case a person's parental instinct should supercede their survival instinct, which makes no sense because a person doesn't get to choose which of their instincts is stronger and you certainly don't get to make moral judgments about it.

You're right, a person does not get to actively decide which instinct is stronger. However, I do not think it's unfair to say that the actions of a parent who endangered their child's well-being for their own personal safety are morally reprehensible.

[RSLAEV]

Yeah..we all like to think we'd do the brave thing. God I hope they catch that asshole.

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Wow. If a man pulled a knife out on my wife with my son anywhere nearby, she might get cut up, but that guy isn't walking away without losing quite a bit of his own blood. There's no chance in the world that she would ever take a step anywhere but between the danger and my kid. Panic makes people do weird things, but overriding the mother's instinct to protect their child seems like it was a result of straight up cowardice.

So many people having a really hard time understanding normal variation in human behavior.

[CornBurrito]

...why?

There's no evolutionary reason for it to be under conscious control.

Flight or fight responses are last ditch efforts to survive when there is a perceived threat. The hunter-gatherer who spends precious seconds rationally deciding which to choose dies.

There's a lot of research done on flight or fight responses. The release of adrenaline is a huge part of it. There's no evidence suggesting people can consciously control the adrenaline level in their body.

[Days like these...]

My mind is literally full of fuck! I don't think I've ever been so disappointed in gaf. i've seen plenty of documentaries with all sorts of animals defending their offspring to the death but then again we are the worst animal of them all so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

[3N16MA]

She did nothing wrong and completely freaked out. Everyone wants to dream that they'd go all fucking "you shall not pass!" when the time comes but when someone breaks out a weapon, survival kicks in. Sucks that she didn't grab her kid but, hey, what are you gonna do?

My first reaction would be to protect my niece or nephew if I was in that situation and they're not even my kids. When it comes to my family I will protect them first.

[hey_it's_that_dog]

You're right, a person does not get to actively decide which instinct is stronger. However, I do not think it's unfair to say that the actions of a parent who endangered their child's well-being for their own personal safety are morally reprehensible.

Make no mistake. I agree with you that this was a bad outcome. The outcome would have been better, probably, if she had behaved in another way.

But actions can only be blameworthy or praiseworthy if they are intentional.

[Kinyou]

nope, you don't empathize. You weren't attacked with your kid, you had a knife pulled on you solo and you have no idea what went through her head to make her react the way she did. You also didn't get stabbed. So really, you can't empathize.

errr... I don't think that you need to have lived through the exact same scenario to feel empathy or compassion.

I guess but man some people don't know how to react to a knife wielder. Not everyone grows up in sketchy areas and knows how to deal with that kind of situation.

Yeah, all I meant to say was that she panicked when she saw the knife, not when she felt the pain of getting stabbed with it.

[cousins]

such a feel good story.

[Perspicacity]

What the fuck is happening in this thread.

[gatisimo]

Maybe the misunderstanding here is that Gatismo thinks that because some of us are explaining how this could have happened in such a way that exculpates the woman from blame, he thinks we don't also think it was a bad outcome, and that of course it would have been better if she had tried to get her child to safety.

Actually, I think the misunderstanding is that people think I'm calling her a bad parent, or that I'm suggesting she doesn't love her kid. I am not judging her at all.

I'm merely saying her actions (i.e. leaving the child behind) are morally reprehensible.

[Zeliard]

...why?

Because it's a biological reaction?

[DY_nasty]

There's no evolutionary reason for it to be under conscious control. Flight or fight responses are last ditch efforts to survive when there is a perceived threat. The hunter-gatherer who spends precious seconds rationally deciding which to choose dies. There's a lot of research done on flight or fight responses. The release of adrenaline is a huge part of it. There's no evidence suggesting people can consciously control the adrenaline level in their body.

Maybe I'm just from a different, fucked up upbringing... *shrug*

[Angry Grimace]

My first reaction would be to protect my niece or nephew if I was in that situation and they're not even my kids. When it comes to my family I will protect them first.

Easy to say, not easy to do.

[DY_nasty]

Because it's a biological reaction?

Why is that always the excuse these days?

Is it really that convenient?

[hey_it's_that_dog]

My mind is literally full of fuck! I don't think I've ever been so disappointed in gaf. i've seen plenty of documentaries with all sorts of animals defending their offspring to the death but then again we are the worst animal of them all so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

If animals do it in a documentary, then that is what must happen 100% of the time and if it doesn't then some moral failing has occurred!

Actually, I think the misunderstanding is that people think I'm calling her a bad parent, or that I'm suggesting she doesn't love her kid. I am not judging her at all. I'm merely saying her actions (i.e. leaving the child behind) are morally reprehensible.

Morality is human-centered. It doesn't exist without people. I don't see how actions can be reprehensible completely independently of the person. So I took it to mean that you think she exhibited a moral failing.

[TheOddOne]

Sounds like my mom, left me to save her ass multiple times.

[Femmeworth]

Damn. :\ I can't fully blame the mother for running, though.

[Baconsammy]

Lets all judge someones character based on a five second video of their panicked reaction to being attacked with a knife.

As a parent, I will judge it. I'd stand and fight and die for my daughter if I had to. I would NEVER leave her alone next to a knife wielding asshole to save myself. You bet your ass I'll judge her character for doing that.

[Dubbedinenglish]

What the fuck is happening in this thread.

"Protect the oven, not the bread"

[raphier]

I expected that...especially when you add heroically... in the title.

[AtomskEater]

Well my dad and I were held at gunpoint when I was 10. He didn't run, nor did I. This woman's actions are indefensible. Not one enev fleeting action to help her kid. Robber could've taken the kid and ran.

Aside from people's reactions being different, guns can hit targets from a distance while knives have a much shorter range, making them a better option to try to flee from (or at least that's what my "common sense" tells me, as I've got no studies or anything on this).

This probably didn't consciously play into anything, just saying.

[Bob White]

Please don't bring hyperbole into it. I never said there was a pause in the action for some binary decision. However, think about the multitude of stories you've read or seen in the news where when confronted by danger a parent puts their life on the line to save their child. I think in the majority of cases parental instincts trump fight or flight instincts. I posit that this women cared more about herself or her pocketbook than the child. And why are you so angry?

I know this wasn't directed at me but, I am a little angry at you. You're saying this woman choose her purse over her kid. That's just fucking bile, man. The lady reached a place where she faced an amazing sense of fear. Seeing the knife sent her into the red immediately and she never had a chance to think, just react.

I'm sure if someone told her that morning she would be robbed at knife point for her purse while out with her daughter, and that giving the purse up would make the mugger go away, she would react like you want her to.

[cousins]

Why is that always the excuse these days? Is it really that convenient?

I'd hate to be in most of these people's families.