[Black-Box]

Do you really go through life thinking that your actions regarding something so important would be that completely out of your hands? That is a really shitty way to live.

I can't control everything I do, no one can, even people who are trained can't control always control their actions. some people will freeze, some people will run away, some people will fight back, everyone is different.

[Baconsammy]

Why didn't she just kill the mugger? If I were her I would've just killed him. What a coward!

Nah, clearly the defensible course of action is to give the mugger your child and then run off with your purse intact.

[SonnyBoy]

I know how my mind works.

This.

But they can't fathom how anyone can think or be differently than they are, so they try to discredit it. LOL

[evil solrac v3.0]

I do empathize, both as a parent and as a person who's had a knife pulled out on them by an assailant. Like I said, I'm not expecting anyone to be a hero, but to run and leave your child behind is indefensible. There really is a defense force for everything.

or maybe you're abig strong guy and she is a smaller more vulnerable woman? do you think that's possible? do you know people panic in situations that they aren't used to?

[Kinyou]

Imagine if he hadn't bluffed when he turned the knife on the 4 year old and actually killed the kid. I find it very, very hard to believe we'd still have the chorus of "she only panicked!" in this thread, even though the mother's actions remain identical.

Even though I don't like "what if" arguments, you're probably right.

[DY_nasty]

I can't control everything I do, no one can, even people who are trained can't control always control their actions. some people will freeze, some people will run away, some people will fight back, everyone is different.

A really shitty way to live.

[evil solrac v3.0]

I love how people here think that "panic" absolves someone of their actions. I've been mugged twice, and yeah, it's scary. But if you're a parent and your flight/fight response does not include your child, you're a shitty parent. All this "you guys don't know what you'd do" nonsense is ridiculous.

get the fuck outta here with that nonsense! so now you know for a fact she's a bad parent based on a five second of someone pulling a kife on her? are you serious with this?

[Treefingers]

A really shitty way to live.

An honest way to live

[Air Zombie Meat]

This. But they can't fathom how anyone can think or be differently than they are, so they try to discredit it. LOL

Really? I'd say the other side of the argument are the ones saying everyone should act the same as them.

[Ducarmel]

I've been in similar situations WITHOUT my daughter. I know how I reacted in those situations, and I know how I would react WITH my daughter. And I know got-damn well that I'm not going to drop and leave her. Now I know this is GAF and how it operates, I don't care to, nor do I plan to prove my merits to you. LOL I've spoken for myself, it is what it is. Don't believe, there's no possibility that I could care any less than I do about your opinion of what I'd do. With that said, please enjoy the rest of your day. LOL

Ok so for you as a person you know how you would react but for this women by what is shown in the vid she just did not know what to do, why would you assume she can keep calm and know how to act in this situation.

I am not a psychology major but all the books i read showed that survival was the number one instinct in all species and maternal was number 2. A gaffer brought up documentaries of animals fighting for their kids but yet there are plenty documentaries of animals abandoning some even go to the extreme to eating their kids to survive.

[Baconsammy]

get the fuck outta here with that nonsense! so now you know for a fact she's a bad parent based on a five second of someone pulling a kife on her? are you serious with this?

He knows that for those 5-10 seconds, she was one of the worst parents on Earth.

[Black-Box]

I love how people here think that "panic" absolves someone of their actions. I've been mugged twice, and yeah, it's scary. But if you're a parent and your flight/fight response does not include your child, you're a shitty parent. All this "you guys don't know what you'd do" nonsense is ridiculous.

if someone loses memory and forget they had kids, does that make them a bad parent?

[DY_nasty]

An honest way to live

Honest and shitty.

Why go through life pardoning yourself in advance for any and every situation that could be seen as truly defining or important? Just give up before you even leave the house. Its all the same.

Fuck that.

[Baconsammy]

Honest and shitty. Why go through life pardoning yourself in advance for any and every situation that could be seen as truly defining or important? Just give up before you even leave the house. Its all the same. Fuck that.

"OK, sweetie, daddy is taking you for ice cream, but if anything bad happens, you're on your own, and most likely fucked. Now enjoy your tasty treat."

[Ezenzer]

get the fuck outta here with that nonsense! so now you know for a fact she's a bad parent based on a five second of someone pulling a kife on her? are you serious with this?

Are you serious? I agree she didn't have time to think, which makes it extremely revealing that her first response was to drop her daughter's hand and flee. She wasn't even reacting to actual injury, only the threat of such. The mugger himself was clearly stunned by her running away because, fuck, who does that? And yet here we are, on GAF...

[SuperSonic1305]

This wouldn't have happened if she had a gun.

[MrDenny]

I just can't agree. It's your opinion, and I think yours is an argument that's coming from a far better place than most of the guys in this thread, but I still can't agree. Judging someone on how they act once they've completely shit their piss just isn't right. A coward has a situation sink in and then runs, this woman's brain never gave her the chance to let the moment sink in. Pure fucking reactions.

Agreed. It looks like she didn't even notice the knife until it was right in her face .
That man is despicable, hope he gets caught.

[Rich Uncle Skeleton]

Yes, I think without having any context or knowing anything about the person it would be stupid to make a judgement of their character. Because going through life I've learned that it's always possible for people to make horrible mistakes that they regret. And in a fight-or-flight situation where your brain panics I don't think you can make any judgement based on what the person does. It's easy to think less of someone in your hypothetical without any context and I wouldn't blame anyone who does, but for someone to claim that the person is a terrible parent or a horrible person based on it is imo pretty asinine.

I definitely see your point. Personally, if someone's instinct is to sacrifice their child to save themselves, rather than the opposite, I'm going to think less of them, because I think it bespeaks something about their personality. I wouldn't base my entire assessment of a person on a single action, instinctive or not, but it will color my view of that person.

This actual case is obviously less extreme than that, but people were making the case that we can never judge a person based on a fight-or-flight response and I just can't get on board with that.

PS: props for WU LYF avatar

We bros.

[Baconsammy]

This wouldn't have happened if she had a gun.

She would never have abandoned her gun?

[Skilotonn]

Well, I didn't see that one coming.

[Ezenzer]

if someone loses memory and forget they had kids, does that make them a bad parent?

If someone panics and forget they're driving a car, does that make them a bad driver?

If a police officer panics and forgets his training, does that make him a bad officer?

If a pilot panics and forgets how to fly a plane, does that make him a bad pilot?

If a doctor panics and forgets how to operate, does that make him a bad doctor?

This is fun.

[Steelrain]

if someone loses memory and forget they had kids, does that make them a bad parent?

If the moon was made of cheese, would you eat it?

[Treefingers]

Honest and shitty. Why go through life pardoning yourself in advance for any and every situation that could be seen as truly defining or important? Just give up before you even leave the house. Its all the same. Fuck that.

Realizing that it's possible to fuck up and not think rationally in a panic doesn't mean not having any trust in yourself. You, yes even you, can lose control of your actions no matter what you think. Sorry that that's the truth but there you go.

[CornBurrito]

I know how my mind works.

If psychology and neuroscience has taught us anything, it is that we actually do not have complete conscious awareness of all our mental processes.

So no, you probably do not know how your mind works. At least not anywhere near a perfect level of understanding.

[h0pper]

If someone panics and forget they're driving a car, does that make them a bad driver? If a police officer panics and forgets his training, does that make him a bad officer? If a pilot panics and forgets how to fly a plane, does that make him a bad pilot? If a doctor panics and forgets how to operate, does that make him a bad doctor? This is fun.

hahaha quote of the forever. nicely done.

[Air Zombie Meat]

If someone panics and forget they're driving a car, does that make them a bad driver? If a police officer panics and forgets his training, does that make him a bad officer? If a pilot panics and forgets how to fly a plane, does that make him a bad pilot? If a doctor panics and forgets how to operate, does that make him a bad doctor? This is fun.

The difference is that those people are trained to do their jobs and aren't in life threatening danger. I don't think they give out classes on how to deal with armed muggers at the maternity clinic.

Anyway I see we've reached the point in the thread where everyone is taking opposing arguments to ridiculous extremes just to make their own look better. Thats pretty cowardly if you ask me.

[DY_nasty]

Realizing that it's possible to fuck up and not think rationally in a panic doesn't mean not having any trust in yourself.

Realizing its possible to fuck up is different than excusing yourself ahead of time with "oh, well i couldn't overcome my baser instincts. statistics show its normal"

That's pitiful. How do you not strive to be better than that?

[Treefingers]

If someone panics and forget they're driving a car, does that make them a bad driver? If a police officer panics and forgets his training, does that make him a bad officer? If a pilot panics and forgets how to fly a plane, does that make him a bad pilot? If a doctor panics and forgets how to operate, does that make him a bad doctor? This is fun.

If a doctor is in a life-threatening situation and fucks up an operation would you blame them and call them a horrible doctor? I dunno, I wouldn't.

[Treefingers]

Realizing its possible to fuck up is different than excusing yourself ahead of time with "oh, well i couldn't overcome my baser instincts. statistics show its normal" That's pitiful. How do you not strive to be better than that?

I dunno where I implied that I was advocating that, and as far as I can tell neither was the poster that you quoted. All he was saying is that we don't always have control. Which is the simple truth.

Edit: Crap sorry for the double post

[Black-Box]

If someone panics and forget they're driving a car, does that make them a bad driver? If a police officer panics and forgets his training, does that make him a bad officer? If a pilot panics and forgets how to fly a plane, does that make him a bad pilot? If a doctor panics and forgets how to operate, does that make him a bad doctor? This is fun.

so your saying that her mind was perfectly "normal" when she ran away?

so she didn't panic?

[MrHicks]

doesn't MOTHER INSTINCT > all normally?

in nature mothers fight to the death to protect their young
its pretty much the default mode

since humans are animals i'd figure this mother instinct would be hardcore hardwired even in human females

am i wrong?

[DY_nasty]

I dunno where I implied that I was advocating that, and as far as I can tell neither was the poster that you quoted. All he was saying is that we don't always have control. Which is the simple truth.

Its implied when you say you don't have control.

Whether its true or not, its definitely giving up ahead of time when you believe that you don't.

[Treefingers]

Its implied when you say you don't have control. Whether its true or not, its definitely giving up ahead of time when you believe that you don't.

No it's not. There's a clear distinction. And I never said I don't have control, I said its possible to lose control.

[CrushDance]

It's got to be embarassing when your infant child is made of sterner stuff than you. You better not be trying to steal my gimmick...

Wrong. The child does not know the intimacy of the situation as well as the adult. This is why children are raised and trained to watch out for signs of danger.

[CornBurrito]

doesn't MOTHER INSTINCT > all normally? in nature mothers fight to the death to protect their young its pretty much the default mode since humans are animals i'd figure this mother instinct would be hardcore hardwired even in human females am i wrong?

Not all animals protect their young, and there is a lot of research done in parental care.

Even species that do protect their young won't always do so. IIRC the younger the mother, the less inclined she is to protect her young. This is because she still has high reproductive fitness, allowing the young to be "replaced."

Also keep in mind that infanticide was pretty common among hunter-gatherer populations as a means of population control. Or the fact that juveniles used to have high mortality rates. It wasn't uncommon to have 10+ kids and only have 2 reach adulthood. "Momma will always protect her baby!" isn't as hardwired as people like to think. At least not in humans.

[hey_it's_that_dog]

Honest and shitty. Why go through life pardoning yourself in advance for any and every situation that could be seen as truly defining or important? Just give up before you even leave the house. Its all the same. Fuck that.

Acknowledging the realities of human cognition based on aggregated data is separable from adopting a code and living by it. If people are capable of anything, it's inconsistency.

In any case, your personal philosophy of life, no matter how adaptive for you or anyone else, does not change the facts of psychology.

[Carnby]

The only indefensible behaviour here is the lack of empathy or understanding of how mind states can rapidly change under extreme stress.

This.

[DY_nasty]

Acknowledging the realities of human cognition based on aggregated data is separable from adopting a code and living by it. If people are capable of anything, it's inconsistency. In any case, your personal philosophy of life, no matter how adaptive for you or anyone else, does not change the facts of psychology.

The only code adopted is not to roll over in advance lol

[evil solrac v3.0]

Are you serious? I agree she didn't have time to think, which makes it extremely revealing that her first response was to drop her daughter's hand and flee. She wasn't even reacting to actual injury, only the threat of such. The mugger himself was clearly stunned by her running away because, fuck, who does that? And yet here we are, on GAF...

yes, here we are. condeming a woman for being afraid, instead of being outraged that a fucking lowlife put a knife to a four year old child's head. he didn't act shocked, his eyes twinkled because he saw a real easy mark to threaten and make money out of. nevre forget that.

[Baconsammy]

yes, here we are. condeming a woman for being afraid, instead of being outraged that a fucking lowlife put a knife to a four year old child's head. he didn't act shocked, his eyes twinkled because he saw a real easy mark to threaten and make money out of. nevre forget that.

The thread is about the mother. Go ahead and make a thread about guys that attack mother-daughter combos and we'll profess our disgust for them. In this thread, we're talking about the shitty mothering skills on display.

[Deified Data]

Wouldn't judge unless I've also been attacked by a knife-wielding maniac.

[MonkeyKing]

I just have to go with this. If this were a man, damn near everyone would be calling him a coward and a piece of shit for leaving his child. Don't excuse the mother's behavior or try to rationalize it. She had the option of giving up material shit and potentially saving both her own life and that of her child. She chose to keep her shit, run, and completely abandon a defenseless child. And no matter how some of you try to rationalize it, you would not have done the same. I know myself and I'd be willing to die to protect my child. All good parents would.

It's the truth.

[daveb234]

I really wish those guys chasing the attacker got him. Would of loved to see his ass handed, what scumbag.

[starchild excalibur]

Gave up the kid before giving up the purse.


Huh.

[evil solrac v3.0]

The thread is about the mother. Go ahead and make a thread about guys that attack mother-daughter combos and we'll profess our disgust for them. In this thread, we're talking about the shitty mothering skills on display.

this thread is about both. but it's also about armchair Generals throwing unfounded accusations. anyone who judges a woman based on this is the real coward.

this is a shitty parent with shitty parenting skills.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...,2656636.story

[Baconsammy]

this thread is about both. but it's also about armchair Generals throwing unfounded accusations. anyone who judges a woman based on this is the real coward.

Unfounded eh? Man demands purse. Woman with 4 year old daughter clutches purse rather than give it up. Woman then runs away with purse, giving thief with knife her daughter instead of her purse. Pretty sure accusations of bad parenting are based in reality.

[Steelrain]

this thread is about both. but it's also about armchair Generals throwing unfounded accusations. anyone who judges a woman based on this is the real coward. this is a shitty parent with shitty parenting skills. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/s...,2656636.story

Nope

[Riggs]

Wow horrible, that mom is weak. I would die fighting for my kid, hell I'd die fighting for my mom or dad.

[Satch]

doesn't MOTHER INSTINCT > all normally? in nature mothers fight to the death to protect their young its pretty much the default mode since humans are animals i'd figure this mother instinct would be hardcore hardwired even in human females am i wrong?

Some animals eat their young.

Lionesses let a new male kill their offspring when he becomes king.

So no, not necessarily.

[SonnyBoy]

Ok so for you as a person you know how you would react but for this women by what is shown in the vid she just did not know what to do, why would you assume she can keep calm and know how to act in this situation. I am not a psychology major but all the books i read showed that survival was the number one instinct in all species and maternal was number 2. A gaffer brought up documentaries of animals fighting for their kids but yet there are plenty documentaries of animals abandoning some even go to the extreme to eating their kids to survive.

Bruh, I haven't assumed anything about this woman. I only said what I would do, which would be the opposite of what she did.