[UFRA]

For my current job I applied online and it worked no prob.

[JCX]

Depends on the method.

The impersonal "create login, personality test, etc" not really, because they are easy to find online so more people apply, and they have a lot of filters for computer algorithms before a human even sees your resume.

Email applications work much better, at least for me. If you can find an email, do it.

Overall, the online app system is a mess and should be abolished. It makes it unnecessarily hard for people to find jobs, and I'm talking basic things like retail and food service.

I hate them so much.

[D4Danger]

applying online is a waste of time if you ask me. All I got was calls from recruitment firms who wanted to add me to their books.

I never heard back from any job I applied for when it was handled by a middle man.

[Zoe]

It seems like half the people here are talking about job sites, and half the people are talking about application services run/bought by the company you're applying for.

I've never had a problem with a company's application service.

[Burger]

Job hunting sucks, pure and simple. I can share some thoughts from the other side.

At my previous employer we advertised for a new graphic designer on two occasions, both times it was a very similar process. We had over 100 C.V's and cover letters by the end of the week. It's surprisingly easy to go through 100 applications in 30 minutes and put 10 in a pile to call back, and 90 in a pile to throw in the bin. Some C.V's were simply terrible, some were just average, and a great many were overly pandering, sounding like they had done 6 months of intensive research into our business and came to the startling conclusion that they were exactly what we needed. Interviewing 10 people takes longer, but out of 10 only 3-4 people stood out in terms of personality and skill set.

We would get people with a double degree, or even a masters and you had to reject them, vastly over qualified for a junior position (that was clearly marked as such). If I recall correctly we didn't even reply to the 90%

Emails or phone calls saying "Did you get my C.V? When will I hear back? Should I come in?" are annoying. We had a business to run.

If you go to an interview at least try to smile and sound interested. That is the biggest advice I could give anyone. We hired one girl out of 3 or 4 possibles simply because she seemed interested, asked questions and seemed happy and curious about various things. One guy came in, didn't smile, had no questions, mumbled short answers back to any questions we asked. I think his interview lasted about 5 minutes. I would agree that most employers know once they shake your hand if you are not getting the job, or are worth investigating.

It would be nice to reply to everyone with two paragraphs about why specifically they were not successful, but it's simply not possible.

[The Lamp]

Just ask to speak to the hiring manager, and if they aren't there ask for a time when they might be so you can call back. Then when you get them just try and politely say you've filled out an application, and you were wondered if you could setup a time to come in and do an interview. Key here being you aren't begging them to hire you, but you are asking to get some actual face to face time. PS: I'm pretty much over filling out any online applications that don't give me any contact info. I really do feel to a large degree it's just intrusive data mining.

Oh, so it's not overstepping boundaries to ask for an interview if you haven't been offered one? Was unaware.

[Steelrain]

Yeah. My last couple of jobs were from online job boards.

Get a better resume?

[Patryn]

I'm an actual statistic for Monster, because it was indirectly responsible for my job. My recruiter found me after I posted my resume there, and I got my current job (that I love) through them.

[Zeitgeister]

No, but mostly because any job listing will have maximum exposure in minutes and the pile of candidates too large by default.

[bengraven]

I've submitted over 200 applications in the last year and a half and have only got 6 interviews. Four of those were scam artists who wanted me to "work from home".

[mt1200]

I disgree, I've got all my jobs with the help of online job sites

[RDreamer]

Job hunting sucks, pure and simple. I can share some thoughts from the other side. At my previous employer we advertised for a new graphic designer on two occasions, both times it was a very similar process. We had over 100 C.V's and cover letters by the end of the week. It's surprisingly easy to go through 100 applications in 30 minutes and put 10 in a pile to call back, and 90 in a pile to throw in the bin. Some C.V's were simply terrible, some were just average, and a great many were overly pandering, sounding like they had done 6 months of intensive research into our business and came to the startling conclusion that they were exactly what we needed. Interviewing 10 people takes longer, but out of 10 only 3-4 people stood out in terms of personality and skill set. We would get people with a double degree, or even a masters and you had to reject them, vastly over qualified for a junior position (that was clearly marked as such). If I recall correctly we didn't even reply to the 90% Emails or phone calls saying "Did you get my C.V? When will I hear back? Should I come in?" are annoying. We had a business to run. If you go to an interview at least try to smile and sound interested. That is the biggest advice I could give anyone. We hired one girl out of 3 or 4 possibles simply because she seemed interested, asked questions and seemed happy and curious about various things. One guy came in, didn't smile, had no questions, mumbled short answers back to any questions we asked. I think his interview lasted about 5 minutes. I would agree that most employers know once they shake your hand if you are not getting the job, or are worth investigating. It would be nice to reply to everyone with two paragraphs about why specifically they were not successful, but it's simply not possible.

As a graphic designer, I have a question for you. Do you guys actually look through someone's portfolio that they send you, before tossing them, or do you immediately look at the qualifications and stuff and just go with that?

I also found it interesting that you rejected those that were way overqualified, because I've been denied jobs on a few occasions that were entry level and could practically be called internships and they gave them to people with masters degrees...

[Songbird]

I hate online application systems that are run directly by employers (but do they even do that? my data goes somewhere else). The only time I've ever gotten an interview through one is at Boots, which I didn't manage. Handing in my CV in person is so much better because I can smile and introduce myself, a far better first impression than a keyword searched form.

And to any HR/recruiters here, are you really so offended by a polite call asking about things like shortlisting times? I have been asked to stop visiting stores and asking about vacancies, so I can believe it... Apparently the person doesn't count anymore. :(

[Zoe]

I hate online application systems that are run directly by employers (but do they even do that? my data goes somewhere else).

It's common to contract a service rather than reinvent the wheel. My employer uses a company that has tailored their hiring application for school districts.

[Songbird]

It's common to contract a service rather than reinvent the wheel. My employer uses a company that has tailored their hiring application for school districts.

But then does the hiring company look at my application or does the contractor end up filtering through them all? I think the latter is how the BBC does things, especially with the personality tests I've failed.

[Baraka in the White House]

The company I work for requires you to go online and set up a profile that's basically a huge application/resume. You have to check whatever type(s) of job you're interested in and those are the ones you'll be considered for when they decide to sift through their virtual stack. It works but it's impersonal and depressing as fuck because you'll never talk to a real person until you've been chosen for an interview.

[Zoe]

But then does the hiring company look at my application or does the contractor end up filtering through them all? I think the latter is how the BBC does things, especially with the personality tests I've failed.

The hiring company for all the companies I've worked at. Contracting out a website is different from contracting out hiring/recruiting resources.

If there's a filter, it's likely something the hiring company has set up to happen automatically.

[Burger]

As a graphic designer, I have a question for you. Do you guys actually look through someone's portfolio that they send you, before tossing them, or do you immediately look at the qualifications and stuff and just go with that? I also found it interesting that you rejected those that were way overqualified, because I've been denied jobs on a few occasions that were entry level and could practically be called internships and they gave them to people with masters degrees...

Portfolios were largely irrelevant for the position, and we tended to ignore them. Like I said, it was a juniorish position, and it was more for an artworker than a designer. We wanted iD/Ai/Ps users, who could work a Mac, layout type, and a had a working knowledge of CMYK workflows.

For instance, if people send through amazing portfolios full of great logo designs, packaging mockups, website layouts etc (and some did) you had to think "Well, we don't do any of that stuff, so will this person be happy in this job in a years time? Probably not."

If you send a portfolio make sure it matches up with the job you are applying for. Personally I never really gave much credence to qualifications, but that's specific to the creative arts really. If there were 2 candidates, one was out of design school with little experience vs someone who has 4 years of experience and no qualifications, the latter gets the job.

In fact the two occasions I was involved in hiring, we made each of those choices. The girl I mentioned was pretty fresh out of design school and her work was pretty sloppy, had little knowledge of RGB vs CMYK etc. It improved over time, but that's what experience teaches. We also hired a girl who worked in newspaper advertising, and she slotted right into the position, and hit the ground running (but had no degree).

I'm looking for a job right now and I hate it. I re-did my C.V. over the weekend and spent about 6 hours on it. I looked at my C.V. that I sent out when I arrived in London and it was shocking, I couldn't believe I sent it out. Getting other people's input is invaluable.

[JeTmAn81]

As the creator of my business's online employment application, I can tell you that our search committees rely on that info pretty heavily and go through it with a finetooth comb. So, if they have a custom system that at least should be an indicator that online applications are important to the business.

[RDreamer]

Portfolios were largely irrelevant for the position, and we tended to ignore them. Like I said, it was a juniorish position, and it was more for an artworker than a designer. We wanted iD/Ai/Ps users, who could work a Mac, layout type, and a had a working knowledge of CMYK workflows. For instance, if people send through amazing portfolios full of great logo designs, packaging mockups, website layouts etc (and some did) you had to think "Well, we don't do any of that stuff, so will this person be happy in this job in a years time? Probably not." If you send a portfolio make sure it matches up with the job you are applying for. Personally I never really gave much credence to qualifications, but that's specific to the creative arts really. If there were 2 candidates, one was out of design school with little experience vs someone who has 4 years of experience and no qualifications, the latter gets the job. In fact the two occasions I was involved in hiring, we made each of those choices. The girl I mentioned was pretty fresh out of design school and her work was pretty sloppy, had little knowledge of RGB vs CMYK etc. It improved over time, but that's what experience teaches. We also hired a girl who worked in newspaper advertising, and she slotted right into the position, and hit the ground running (but had no degree). I'm looking for a job right now and I hate it. I re-did my C.V. over the weekend and spent about 6 hours on it. I looked at my C.V. that I sent out when I arrived in London and it was shocking, I couldn't believe I sent it out. Getting other people's input is invaluable.

Thanks. That was pretty fascinating to read.

It is a little odd that you'd just discard people with those sorts of things in their portfolio and think they wouldn't like it there. Maybe that's been part of my problem. The fact is though I love doing those things I'd love any job I could get at entry level. Most people just graduating or even a few years after will have portfolios full of that sort of stuff, since that's what you do in school, but I know most would love any position.

As for sending a portfolio I usually link to my web portfolio, and I know most other designers do the same thing, so doing specific things for a specific job is a bit strange, but I suppose I'll keep it in mind.

What this conversation has really highlighted to me was something I've suspected. I think most of my generation would love any and every entry level position, and would gladly take it. We apply for it, so we do really want it. But those hiring seem to have this stereotype in their mind that we don't want that or something. It's this weird cycle now where a lot of people tend to think that this generation won't take entry level jobs and just want higher level positions, but the hiring people won't hire them for entry level jobs because they think they just want higher level positions, etc. I've run into this problem a few times. I've had to really really emphasize to employers that yes I would indeed be happy and I do want the position, only to have them still kind of doubt it. I had a huge problem with one of my employers where I wanted to move up in the company, but they were hesitant solely because they didn't know if I'd be happy since it wasn't what I had my degree specifically in.

[Songbird]

What this conversation has really highlighted to me was something I've suspected. I think most of my generation would love any and every entry level position, and would gladly take it. We apply for it, so we do really want it. But those hiring seem to have this stereotype in their mind that we don't want that or something. It's this weird cycle now where a lot of people tend to think that this generation won't take entry level jobs and just want higher level positions, but the hiring people won't hire them for entry level jobs because they think they just want higher level positions, etc. I've run into this problem a few times. I've had to really really emphasize to employers that yes I would indeed be happy and I do want the position, only to have them still kind of doubt it. I had a huge problem with one of my employers where I wanted to move up in the company, but they were hesitant solely because they didn't know if I'd be happy since it wasn't what I had my degree specifically in.

This rings true for me. I just need work that'll let me afford a place to live, and I can't express my eagerness to work without a covering letter or in person hand-off. How else can I avoid sounding super needy and scary?

But then temp admin work's already made me overqualified in a lot of places. I don't care, let me express why I'm best for the job - A form without a personal statement doesn't let me do that.

[Burger]

Thanks. That was pretty fascinating to read. It is a little odd that you'd just discard people with those sorts of things in their portfolio and think they wouldn't like it there. Maybe that's been part of my problem. The fact is though I love doing those things I'd love any job I could get at entry level. Most people just graduating or even a few years after will have portfolios full of that sort of stuff, since that's what you do in school, but I know most would love any position. As for sending a portfolio I usually link to my web portfolio, and I know most other designers do the same thing, so doing specific things for a specific job is a bit strange, but I suppose I'll keep it in mind. What this conversation has really highlighted to me was something I've suspected. I think most of my generation would love any and every entry level position, and would gladly take it. We apply for it, so we do really want it. But those hiring seem to have this stereotype in their mind that we don't want that or something. It's this weird cycle now where a lot of people tend to think that this generation won't take entry level jobs and just want higher level positions, but the hiring people won't hire them for entry level jobs because they think they just want higher level positions, etc. I've run into this problem a few times. I've had to really really emphasize to employers that yes I would indeed be happy and I do want the position, only to have them still kind of doubt it. I had a huge problem with one of my employers where I wanted to move up in the company, but they were hesitant solely because they didn't know if I'd be happy since it wasn't what I had my degree specifically in.

I think for designers in particular things need to be catered or tweaked for the position. For example, my CV remains fairly static, is 1 page, is meant to be very easy to read, nothing in there that doesn't need to be. For instance I am not formally trained at all, so there simply isn't an education section. Here is a dummy preview:



Obviously the cover letter is heavily changed for each position. If you aren't having results try removing things from your C.V. if they are not relevant for the position. For instance, it looks like I've had 2 jobs, but I've had 5. 3 are not important, and a little bit of creative licence can hide the fact that I had 3 shitty jobs that don't even deserve to be mentioned.

[Brettison]

Oh, so it's not overstepping boundaries to ask for an interview if you haven't been offered one? Was unaware.

Not for the type of jobs he said he was applying for, and I see no harm just calling and asking if you can come in for face to face time. You don't even have to call it an interview. These types of places probably get sooo many random applicants and soo much turnover you just need to get some face time to dramatically increase your chances.

[RDreamer]

I think for designers in particular things need to be catered or tweaked for the position. For example, my CV remains fairly static, is 1 page, is meant to be very easy to read, nothing in there that doesn't need to be. For instance I am not formally trained at all, so there simply isn't an education section. Here is a dummy preview: Obviously the cover letter is heavily changed for each position. If you aren't having results try removing things from your C.V. if they are not relevant for the position. For instance, it looks like I've had 2 jobs, but I've had 5. 3 are not important, and a little bit of creative licence can hide the fact that I had 3 shitty jobs that don't even deserve to be mentioned.

Ah, yeah I know you should definitely fit things like that to the position you're going for. I don't mention most of my jobs, since they have nothing to do with the field, for instance. So I know all about that sort of stuff. I had just never heard of changing your portfolio for a specific job. Everyone I know has an online portfolio and sends that. It isn't catered to anyone specific, and just has all their great projects. If a job requests specific things, though I will send them along.

My resume itself seems to do pretty decently well, since I get a lot of responses when I send that to people on craigslist. It's the online application places that I don't. Those ones where you only upload it in order for it to get info from you, or don't even upload it at all. And most of the job websites only allow plain text, boring shit.

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Drop off a physical app for some facetime, but also do the digital app.

[Burger]

Ah, yeah I know you should definitely fit things like that to the position you're going for. I don't mention most of my jobs, since they have nothing to do with the field, for instance. So I know all about that sort of stuff. I had just never heard of changing your portfolio for a specific job. Everyone I know has an online portfolio and sends that. It isn't catered to anyone specific, and just has all their great projects. If a job requests specific things, though I will send them along. My resume itself seems to do pretty decently well, since I get a lot of responses when I send that to people on craigslist. It's the online application places that I don't. Those ones where you only upload it in order for it to get info from you, or don't even upload it at all. And most of the job websites only allow plain text, boring shit.

I've never had an online portfolio. I have a PDF. I find it easier to exert control over something in InDesign than I do the web. Plus I'm not a web designer so I would never have a web based portfolio.

I'm probably heavily biased, I'm not a recruitment manager or anything. Obviously if something you did was totally awesome but unrelated, then sure, throw it in.

[PigSpeakers]

I thought this for the longest time. I didn't really have my first job until I was 19, and that only lasted for two months, with one hour a week. My next job was seasonal retail, so I don't really count that. My current job has lasted for over a year, was done as sort of an aside without really thinking about it on an online application. It's just a retail position, but I got an interview within a week of doing the app and then got the job during the interview (which blew my mind since I'd had such crappy luck).

Doing those stupid personality surveys are killer though. I hated it. After awhile I had all of my answers memorized and didn't even have to think about it anymore.

[RedSwirl]

Now see I just got an e-mail back from a company that got my resume, saying they'll contact me in a few weeks. Do I follow that up directly to the recruiter, or just wait?

[Vox-Pop]

Works for retail.

[Cow Mengde]

Use Craigslist. Yes, I'm serious. I found a couple of jobs through it, including my current job. You get to submit a cover letter and resume without all the bullshit.

That said, I also once landed a part time job through filling in those damn surveys. It only worked once though.

[Seraphinianus]

In the space where they allow you to write something, write "Come on, dude, I'll jerk you off!!!"

[Zoe]

Use Craigslist. Yes, I'm serious. I found a couple of jobs through it, including my current job. You get to submit a cover letter and resume without all the bullshit. That said, I also once landed a part time job through filling in those damn surveys. It only worked once though.

I found my current job through Craigslist. Still had to fill out an online application though.

[qcf x2]

Real life networking, mingling, friend-making can make a big difference. Don't stop applying to places in favor of bar hopping, but use your unemployed time to branch out and meet some new people.

Just my opinion.

[Aesius]

Use Craigslist. Yes, I'm serious. I found a couple of jobs through it, including my current job. You get to submit a cover letter and resume without all the bullshit. That said, I also once landed a part time job through filling in those damn surveys. It only worked once though.

Found two jobs through CL as well, including the one I'm currently at.

[SnakeswithLasers]

To answer your question: Online job application processes do pan out because they are basically the only way big companies do things anymore.

[oneils]

Well, you guys are part of the problem then.

Depending on the setting, going every week is overkill and does you no favours. This would only work if they can hire on the spot and give you something right then and there (e.g., manual labour).

[Kreios]

Most of the places I go to around here just tell me to look at their website. I tried Home Depot once, and I swear half the questions were scaled ones like
"Compared to your _____ (friends, relatives, etc) you are 1. More organized 2. A little more organized 3. Less organized"

It was like, great, either I suck, or people I know just suck. Either way I'm in the hole. I'll try craigslist and some networking like you guys said though. Thanks for the ideas

[Dead Man]

Online applications plus actual networking = win. None of this going to employers with your hat in your hands rubbish.

[Kylehimself]

I once sat through the most boring online job application for B&Q. It took me almost and hour and I had to do a bunch of shitty tests. They wanted somebody who could use computer systems and handle money (I worked in government finance for nearly three years), somebody who could communicate with the public and handle customers (I worked on the government switchboard for a year) and it was preferable for candidates to have construction industry experience (I have an official qualification for site carpentry which I achieved over 3 years). I filled the application in at 9pm Sunday and was denied at 8AM Monday. I couldn't of ticked more boxes if I tried. I'd love to know who got that job.

I've just completed a college course with the hopes of going to university to study Computer Science this September. It seems to get any work these days you need a degree, and whilst I don't want to still be studying by age 28 (nearing 24 now) I don't know what else to do.

[krameriffic]

Go to the actual places, even if they prefer you to apply on-line. Go every week if need be until someone will sit with you. Show some determination and ambition.

This isn't always an option. A lot of places you are applying to may be far away, making this economically unfeasible. When I was applying to jobs, I was applying to companies like Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman which, while local to me, actually don't allow you onto the premises of their facilities because of the nature of their business. And some places will flat tell you that they won't take applications in person.

Showing up in person depends on what kind of job and what kind of situation you are in. I was looking for new college graduate engineering positions over the last ~8 months and I can't imagine how I would approach engineering companies like that. I had the advantage of still having access to career and recruiting events at my school, and that's pretty much how I landed my job because those gave me an opportunity to speak directly with recruiters and make real impressions.

I sent out probably around 100 applications through the internet over the course of my job search to positions that I judged myself to be a really good fit for. In 8 months, I landed 5 interviews: National Instruments, Knoll Atomic Power Lab, Honeywell, Ball Aerospace and Lockheed Martin. 1 in 20 got me a call back, and that's with very solid experience and a 3.9 GPA applying to college grad positions. I went months at a time without getting any kind of response, and it was fucking depressing.

Things only started to turn up for me when college job search season started to kick back into gear in the months before summer graduation this year. In the first 7 months of my job search I had 2 interviews, in the last month of it I landed 3 AND a job. Being able to talk to the recruiters was what did it for me. The online applications... are really horrible. If you're applying to big companies for career positions, you have to deal with the slow, ponderous and political machine that is corporate business.

Of course most of this probably only applies within a few select industries. It could be quite different when looking for different kinds of jobs.

[Bufbaf]

We really need some kind of GAF Linkedin/whateverplatform professional networking account sharing thread thingamabob. I'd so love to have some possibility of networking people outside of my (and with that, my company's) usual circles.

[friskykillface]

Mine worked for my job but it took a while.

I mixed in online and hand written applications for the jobs I applied for.

[Big-E]

Mostly all of the jobs I have applied to in the past would not accept handing resumes inperson and would not want to talk to you, just pointed you to the website. Teaching is almost all like this now with teachers having to spend money for each district they want to apply for in the fucking awful website that every single fucking district is using to do their hiring. It is fucking moronic and a real shame that no one is fucking willing to staff a person to fucking do some hiring.

[Zoe]

Mostly all of the jobs I have applied to in the past would not accept handing resumes inperson and would not want to talk to you, just pointed you to the website. Teaching is almost all like this now with teachers having to spend money for each district they want to apply for in the fucking awful website that every single fucking district is using to do their hiring. It is fucking moronic and a real shame that no one is fucking willing to staff a person to fucking do some hiring.

Have you seen how many people apply for a single position in a school district?

[JetBlackPanda]

I've done recruitment for a long time and I can tell you that online applications do work, but not as well as networking does. Job fairs are great for meeting the recruiters face to face which helps in the hiring process. Another great way to get a job is to join professional associations in your field. That way you can potentially meet the actual hiring managers. Another great avenue is to use Linkedin and figure out who the hiring manager is for the position you are applying to. Then you can email him directly and get around the recruiters and screeners. Do not show up at the workplace. The will think you are a pyscho and end it there.

This man knows the truth... In the 9 years ive worked at a fortune 500 company probably 90% of the hires have been a networked person that knows someone.

[OnkelC]

I just had to fill a vacancy and was quite happy that most applications were sent to me online. The person I hired also sent her application online.

80 applications in total btw, only 5 of them were sent on paper.

[rpmurphy]

My opportunities for interviews from online applications vs. handing out my resume to reps at job fairs were about equal, but my area is IT and I admit that my interpersonal skills are not great. From my experience, the turnaround time can be very fast or very slow depending on the industry, company and position. As a matter of fact, I applied earlier this year to one of these online job sites (the company that runs the site) and the feedback from the recruiter came back incredibly fast... and that's where I'm at now after taking the job. lol
From my knowledge so far, the online job sites are very job-poster-centric, and HR can sift through many job applications without much effort based on a number of criteria. Considering that if you apply for a job that you could probably be competing against a lot of people who apply to the same position, the black hole experience can be common. The online applications certainly work well for the job poster, but for you as the job seeker, it's a useful tool but like anything, you can't rely on it 100%. Networking online and offline, relevant job fairs, direct applying where it is okay to do so, doing things to make a name for yourself or to improve the content of your resume, all these things are still important.

[Dead Man]

Mostly all of the jobs I have applied to in the past would not accept handing resumes inperson and would not want to talk to you, just pointed you to the website. Teaching is almost all like this now with teachers having to spend money for each district they want to apply for in the fucking awful website that every single fucking district is using to do their hiring. It is fucking moronic and a real shame that no one is fucking willing to staff a person to fucking do some hiring.

You have to pay to apply for a job? What?

[jvalioli]

I'm a computer scientist, so I know it is not the same for you, but I know for my job and many like that, in person resumes are basically useless because they have to be scanned into the system.

[Wads]

I've got every job since finishing college (2004) by applying online. I've experienced similar results, but a lot of the time it can pay to go to the companies own webpage and apply to them directly. I got a job at a huge health care company this way - some head hunter emailed me about my profile on Career Builder, and I went out and found the position on their website, applied directly, and got the job.