[junesongprovider]

It would be both inaccurate and disrespectful to use male pronouns, even when talking about her past. What someone has done or intends to do or not do is irrelevant; she’s stated that she identifies as a woman, and that’s all you need to know.

That's pretty much the conclusion I came to. I just wanted to acknowledge that it feels a little weird to switch over to the feminine pronouns. I primarily brought it up because during a texting conversation with RoboPlato earlier, I found myself using "he" and "him", just out of habit, because I was referring to someone that up until now I knew as a man. But it did feel wrong to refer to her with masculine pronouns, which is what got me thinking about it.

I just thought that the pronoun transition was an interesting side effect of her coming out.

[HIGH DEF JEFF]

AM! is my favorite band. This is shocking (not in a bad way). Curious to see what kind of press it gets.

Regarding some of his lyrics. I never questioned the song "Searching for a Former Clarity" because I always thought it was about someone else. I still think it is..the subject of the song is dying of a disease.

But that line in "The Ocean", as mentioned above always seemed so strange to me. Again, not in a bad way, I just wasn't sure what his point was. Well now we know and good on him.

I'll be rocking one of my AM! shirt tomorrow for sure.

[junesongprovider]

Really, though, I think the first major step is just making sure that we're being respectful to the person in question. So long as people are showing that respect, then we can deal with the final points of the situation in an informative, but not condescending manner.

Thanks for the perspective. I agree, this really is the most important thing to keep in mind.

[thezerofire]

I've never really listened to Against Me!, but good for her. It must feel great to finally get it all off her chest.

[KO Traveling Hobo]

And Tom was always a woman even if she didn't realize it.

But the whole thing is that Tom(shouldn't it be Laura?) is only now embracing who she really is inside, which entails changes in both behavior and appearance. If her wife is willing to stay with her, then more power to them, but I don't think it'd be fair to hold it against her should she choose to part ways.

It's not like your sexual identity/preferences disappear when you get married.

[MorisUkunRasik]

You marry a person, not their gender.

That's rather absurd, if my significant other wanted to physically become a man it is a naive expectation to think that I would be interested in being in a relationship with a man since I'm heterosexual. If Laura's wife wants to say that's one thing, but she can not be expected to simply because they're married.

It's near expecting gay people to marry the opposite sex and learn to love them.

[Staccat0]

Really cool it was someone from a more "agressive" and respected band
Congrats to her for being able to be so open about it.

You marry a person, not their gender.

Thats not fair.

[cousins]

Good for her.

[Emitan]

yeah okay lets just forget i said that

[KO Traveling Hobo]

yeah okay lets just forget i said that

It definitely sounded nice, at least.

[kittens]

Rad, glad she's feeling able to be open about it.

[Emitan]

It definitely sounded nice, at least.

I live in a fantasy world where everyone is perfect

[Femmeworth]

yeah okay lets just forget i said that

*pats Billiechu* There, there. You meant well.

[macuser1of5]

The wife thing is heartwarming, but I'm going to be a negative nancy and say they're not going to last. I'd like to be proven wrong, but I just can't imagine, and I hope the wife isn't scolded if she decides it's uncomfortable for her.

it worked for genesis p. orridge and his wife... but they kind of took the bull by it's horns lol.

[Jamie xxoo]

Forgive my ignorance but how does this work? Does the penis stay? How much like a normal vagina is it if the penis goes? I guess I'll read the article when I see the magazine. Whatever makes Gabel happy.

Some trans people don't change their genitals for whatever reason. If they choose to have the operation, it's not a simple inversion of the penis, it's a complete surgical/cosmetic reconstruction of the site. The result is a vagina that doesn't look out of place/can't be picked from regular vaginas. Depth, sensation, smell, taste, lubrication and aesthetics vary from person to person depending on what they started with and the skill of the surgeon, and how much hormones affect their body chemistry, but all parameters are generally within normal female ranges, except for lubrication, which is often less, but not always. It acts and functions like a regular vagina, except there are no periods.

Against Me's future records will suck. Gabel's throaty voice fits perfectly with the music. It would be like dude from Hot Water Music changing his voice. It just won't work.

Her voice wont be affected unless she decides to work on it consciously. She could also get an operation to change her voice box and tighten the vocal chords, but a singer would usually never do that because of the risks involved - voice loss or loss of vocal power.

To continue a singing career she's pretty much going to have to decide to sing like a man, which might happen since he's announced this decision and her new name so publicly. Doesn't sound like she wants to blend into society as a normal woman.

So the honest question goes, and I am not trying to be insensitive here...but... is he straight now and will be considered gay once he becomes more physically a woman?

Goes to show how silly labels are. She loves the woman she's in a relationship with, but whether she'll be attracted generally to men or women once HRT starts, who knows?

I would argue that Tom Gabel and Laura are not the same person otherwise she would not feel the need to make this change.

But she's going to have the same memories and humor and reference points from her past as before - she'll bear a physical resemblance and like the same foods etc etc - she won't become a completely different person unrecognisable to anyone who knew her before..

[Jamie xxoo]

That's rather absurd, if my significant other wanted to physically become a man it is a naive expectation to think that I would be interested in being in a relationship with a man since I'm heterosexual. If Laura's wife wants to say that's one thing, but she can not be expected to simply because they're married. It's near expecting gay people to marry the opposite sex and learn to love them.

Totally agree with you, no-one should be expected to stay with a partner through a gender-change.

Some do, though. We can't assume the wife was strictly heterosexual to start with.

[krypt0nian]

Don't know who she is, but good for her!

Same here. Very brave and I wish her well!

[Dead Man]

Never heard of the band, but it's always good to read stories of people who transition in a supportive environment.

[MorisUkunRasik]

Totally agree with you, no-one should be expected to stay with a partner through a gender-change. Some do, though. We can't assume the wife was strictly heterosexual to start with.

True. Also, is Laura's sexual orientation clear at this point? Two heterosexual women married to each other seems like it wouldn't benefit either party.

Hope everything works out for them.

[giancarlo123x]

I was going to make a thread on this, my jaw hit the floor earlier when I read about it. Since Against Me! is my favorite band I didn't believe my friend when he told me. I'm curious to see what the future of the band holds. Good for Laura on coming out.
Edit: A couple of pictures from the last show at Commongrounds in Gainesville.

Im the one behind him in the first pic, and to the left in the second.

[junesongprovider]

True. Also, is Laura's sexual orientation clear at this point? Two heterosexual women married to each other seems like it wouldn't benefit either party. Hope everything works out for them.

She's obviously attracted to women, as evidenced by the wife, but we don't know if she has ever had attractions towards men. It's possible, but not really part of the public record. I don't know how much of an effect, if any, the hormones will have; there's been some speculation above. But I think it's safe to assume she is into girls just as much as she ever was before coming out, especially since she and her wife are staying together.

And I agree with

We can't assume the wife was strictly heterosexual to start with.

sexuality isn't a binary. It's entirely possible that the wife had attractions toward women as well as the attraction towards men evidenced by her marriage to (someone who at the time was) a biological man. This is speculation, of course, these are very personal details of strangers' lives. But again, I think their decision to stay together speaks to the fact that the wife not only loves Laura, but is still sexually interested in her now that she is becoming a woman.

[junesongprovider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMh4DclBNJg

Your tells are so obvious. Shoulders too broad for a girl. Keeps you reminded. Helps you remember where you come from. You want them to notice the ragged ends of your summer dress (?) You want them to see you like they see every other girl. They just see a faggot. ???????????? You know it's obvious, but we can't choose how we're made.

[Femmeworth]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMh4DclBNJg

So much respect.

[MorisUkunRasik]

She's obviously attracted to women, as evidenced by the wife, but we don't know if she has ever had attractions towards men. It's possible, but not really part of the public record. I don't know how much of an effect, if any, the hormones will have; there's been some speculation above. But I think it's safe to assume she is into girls just as much as she ever was before coming out, especially since she and her wife are staying together. And I agree with sexuality isn't a binary. It's entirely possible that the wife had attractions toward women as well as the attraction towards men evidenced by her marriage to (someone who at the time was) a biological man. This is speculation, of course, these are very personal details of strangers' lives. But again, I think their decision to stay together speaks to the fact that the wife not only loves Laura, but is still sexually interested in her now that she is becoming a woman.

Whatever the case, I hope they both do what makes them happy and don't do anything out of some obligation they feel to one another.

[junesongprovider]

Whatever the case, I hope they both do what makes them happy and don't do anything out of some obligation they feel to one another.

Absolutely. It really is inspiring, power of love, etc. that they are staying together, but no one should be expected or obligated to stay in a relationship that becomes incompatible with their own sexual orientation. Heather can't change her sexual orientation any more than Laura can change her female gender identity. But luckily, it seems like this relationship still works for both of them.

[makingmusic476]

I love the reaction stories like this get on gaf. I don't think I know anybody locally that would have a similarly positive reaction.

sexuality isn't a binary. It's entirely possible that the wife had attractions toward women as well as the attraction towards men evidenced by her marriage to (someone who at the time was) a biological man. This is speculation, of course, these are very personal details of strangers' lives. But again, I think their decision to stay together speaks to the fact that the wife not only loves Laura, but is still sexually interested in her now that she is becoming a woman.

She could very well be like, "same person, new toys!"

This type of change doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

[thatbox]

So much respect.

I can't even imagine what it took to sing that as the only one at the time who had any idea exactly how intimate and personal it was.

[junesongprovider]

I love the reaction stories like this get on gaf. I don't think I know anybody locally that would have a similarly positive reaction. She could very well be like, "same person, new toys!" This type of change doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

You're right, it absolutely depends on the person. We're really just speculating about a stranger.

[Tokubetsu]

Haven't listened to them in years but everything from Axl Rose to Former Clarity were mandatory listening when I was still in high school. Wish her the best.

[lexi]

I think I've only heard of this band in passing, just listened to a few songs and they're pretty good! Although how you write a song called 'Transgender Dysphoria Blues' and people NOT suspect you're actually trans is beyond me.

I get the feeling she'll have a very successful transition passing-wise, she looks great in that photo in the Rolling Stone article.

[soultron]

I've been really out of the loop with AM! lately, but I'm glad TG feels comfortable enough where she can come out. I wish her all the best as Laura and hope the music keeps on coming. White Crosses was alright!

[Tokubetsu]

I think I've only heard of this band in passing, just listened to a few songs and they're pretty good! Although how you write a song called 'Transgender Dysphoria Blues' and people NOT suspect you're actually trans is beyond me. I get the feeling she'll have a very successful transition passing-wise, she looks great in that photo in the Rolling Stone article.

Get their first three albums. Reinventing Axel Rose, As The Eternal Cowboy and Searching for Former Clarity. I don't really care for any of their stuff post 2005 but they're still pretty good.

http://youtu.be/TZ02RRo3Aus

[junesongprovider]

Get their first three albums. Reinventing Axl Rose, As The Eternal Cowboy and Searching for Former Clarity. I don't really care for any of their stuff post 2005 but they're still pretty good. http://youtu.be/TZ02RRo3Aus

Searching For A Former Clarity, especially. That is one of my favorite albums.

[345triangle]

i only ever liked reinventing axl rose, but that was a hell of a record and they were amazing live around that time. more power to tom/laura.

[Fjordson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMh4DclBNJg

Damn, this is pretty good. Somehow, I don't think I've ever knowingly heard an Against Me! song before.

Glad she's finding her true self. Happy she's staying with her wife as well.

[aku:jiki]

I have nothing but support for Tom for this, even if I don't fully understand it. If it's something he needs to be happy, then more power to him, and even more power than that to the wife for staying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMh4DclBNJg

Wait, if Tom is still writing songs like that (bare, acoustic, singing at the top of his lungs), why can't we get an album like that instead of the shitty mainstream rock they've done on the past couple?

[abusori]

I've never heard of the band, but I wish her all the luck in the world. I think it's great that she is being very vocal about it as well; this sort of thing has an impact on people when they realize that a normal (albeit famous, but people like to pretend) person they already appreciated is going through it.

[Tokubetsu]

I have nothing but support for Tom for this, even if I don't fully understand it. If it's something he needs to be happy, then more power to him, and even more power than that to the wife for staying. Wait, if Tom is still writing songs like that (bare, acoustic, singing at the top of his lungs), why can't we get an album like that instead of the shitty mainstream rock they've done on the past couple?

Yea, it'd be cool if after all this, she goes back to this more bare music.

[RobotNinjaHornets]

Wait, if Tom is still writing songs like that (bare, acoustic, singing at the top of his lungs), why can't we get an album like that instead of the shitty mainstream rock they've done on the past couple?

That was for The Revival Tour

[Xun]

Not my kind of music, but good for her!

[optimiss]

..but whether she'll be attracted generally to men or women once HRT starts, who knows?

I often hear people attribute changes in sexual prefernces to HRT on a chemical level but I am dubious. I think it is more a matter of being comfortable in sexual roles you previously weren't. I know from my own experiences that while I maintain an attraction soley to women post HRT, I no longer feel the societal taboo against being attracted to men. I think that is often enough to get the ball rolling on long denied desires.

[DangerStepp]

I like how he's wearing the towel on his head and around his chest.

That's the first step I'd take to being a lady, too.

[giancarlo123x]

Get their first three albums. Reinventing Axel Rose, As The Eternal Cowboy and Searching for Former Clarity. I don't really care for any of their stuff post 2005 but they're still pretty good. http://youtu.be/TZ02RRo3Aus

New wave is a great album also, Thrash Unreal is awesome. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzJ21OpFnZ0&ob=av3e
Hell even after a while White Crosses grows on you. If you have spotify listen to everything at least once.

[davepoobond]

the most ridiculous thing in this thread is someone saying Rise Against sounds like Against Me. WOW.


i don't know much about the people in Against Me, but I do love their voices as they are... i don't really listen to any of their new stuff (if they've had any since that one last song) but i really gotta wonder if this procedure will make the band sound musically worse or not.

[Femmeworth]

I can't even imagine what it took to sing that as the only one at the time who had any idea exactly how intimate and personal it was.

Indeed.

I just realized that video was filmed at a location not too far from me. :O

[Seguin]

Get their first three albums. Reinventing Axel Rose, As The Eternal Cowboy and Searching for Former Clarity. I don't really care for any of their stuff post 2005 but they're still pretty good. http://youtu.be/TZ02RRo3Aus

Umm, Vivada Vis and Crimes as Forgiven by Against Me! are probably their two best.

[border]

This effectively means the end of the band, so I guess it must have been a really tough announcement.

Strangely enough, his wife kinda looks like she used to be a guy:



I wonder if it's possible?

[thatbox]

Really?

[PolarBearsClub]

Umm, Vivada Vis and Crimes as Forgiven by Against Me! are probably their two best.

Crime? Definitely but it's not for everyone. Vivida vis? Just...not good. Not even in the same ballpark as reinventing axl rose in terms of good music. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion, and really i can listen to shit stroll and enjoy it once in a while, but would you honestly recommend it to a random gaffer to give them an idea of what AM! Sound like?

[coldvein]

This effectively means the end of the band, so I guess it must have been a really tough announcement. Strangely enough, his wife kinda looks like she used to be a guy: I wonder if it's possible?

the plot thickens.