[HiResDes]

This is the blog post that inspired this thread

Friendzoning is bullshit because girls are not machines that you put Kindness Coins into until sex falls out. Slut is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say yes. Friendzone is how we vilify a woman for exercising her right to say no. The Friend Zone is a fundamentally sexist construction based solely on the idea that women should be penalised for putting their own romantic happiness above that of an interested man. If a lady doesn't want you, then either respect her decision and keep away to salve your heart, or respect her decision and stay because you still think she's cool enough to be worth the effort of friendship. But if you don't respect her decision, then you don't respect her – and if you don't respect her, then stay the fuck out of her life.

I used to be on the side that believed the term was commonly used by both genders of any sexuality; however, as Foz cites the term has seemingly mutated into a pathetic misogynist slander that males use to describe failed sexual advances that lead to a compromised or undesired friendship. And while I agree that she does indeed have a point and that it seems sexist to devalue the friendship of person of either gender in anyway, I can't deny the bitterness that exists within the depths of my "heart" after all of my romantic failings. I must say I mostly blame myself, though my mind wants me to believe that in many cases I failed because I didn't live to some sort of masculine ideal or stereotypical datable male character-set, which if true would be equally as sexist in my opinion. Thoughts?

[Mumei]

Oh! So that's where this originates:

[likeGdid]

Great. What the hell am I supposed to do with all these kindness coins?

[Centurion]

she's wrong, and she's also probably ugly.

[MorisUkunRasik]

So good.

[Al-ibn Kermit]

she's wrong, and she's also probably ugly.

Can't tell if sarcastic.

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

There IS a "friend zone," in that it's possible to end up friends with somebody in whom you're interested but who doesn't return that affection. No woman is obligated to be romantically attracted to any particular man, but if she chooses to remain friends with him after rejecting him, it's only natural that a guy would read a pattern into that, i.e. I've been rejected romantically but am "good enough" to be a friend. It's not a matter of "putting kindness coins into a sex machine," it's a matter of feeling dejected when somebody rejects you in favor of somebody who seems to be a less desirable partner for one reason or another. I don't doubt that there are guys who adopt the former view, mind, but that doesn't negate the social currency of an entire term.

Edit: Also, friend zone can be used pretty gender mutually; at least, I wouldn't really bat an eye if I heard of an instance where a woman had been "friend-zoned" by a man. All the term really denotes is "two friends - one is romantically interested, the other isn't." There's nothing sexist that HAS to be inherent there.

[DanteFox]

You know, women can get friendzoned too...

[macuser1of5]

she's wrong, and she's also probably ugly.

yeaaaaaah, that might not be a good idea (but quoting anyway for lulz)

I think the term can be used in a fairly innocuous manner, but I do see a lot of people use the term in a weird internet dork manner as outlined in the OP. Kind of like the woman is the gold chest at the end of a dungeon or something.

[Divvy]

The "friendzone" or whatever you want to call it can exist for a plethora of reasons. For some of them her argument is correct, for other it is not.

[JokerOfSpades]

I always thought friendzoning was different from rejection - where the woman in question doesn't even know that the man likes them, but they only think of them as a friend. Either way, a relationship has never been formally discussed.

In which case, the man didn't make moves or enough moves.

I figured rejection was moreso when the woman knew and decided that they did not want to pursue a relationship.

Either way, there's no reason to attack a woman for doing either. Again, it's her exercising her right to say no/her free will. In fact, I never knew that women were attacked for that. I figured with was just "damn, rejected/friendzoned."

You know, women can get friendzoned too...

This is also true; I'm just going from the OP.

[Staccat0]

100% correct
I've said it again and again on GAF, and I have yet to see an intelligent retort

I married my best friend. No "zones" involved

[Cyan]

The Friend Zone is a fundamentally sexist construction based solely on the idea that women should be penalised for putting their own romantic happiness above that of an interested man. If a lady doesn't want you, then either respect her decision and keep away to salve your heart, or respect her decision and stay because you still think she's cool enough to be worth the effort of friendship. But if you don't respect her decision, then you don't respect her – and if you don't respect her, then stay the fuck out of her life.

Either she's misunderstanding the term, or I've been using it wrong.

[Scullibundo]

Wow. Big ego on that one. Anybody can get friendzoned. And friendzone is speaking in relation to the interested party and has almost zero connotation or judgement in relation to the attracted party.

[onemic]

I always thought friendzoning was different from rejection - where the woman in question doesn't even know that the man likes them, but they only think of them as a friend. Either way, a relationship has never been formally discussed. In which case, the man didn't make moves or enough moves. I figured rejection was moreso when the woman knew and decided that they did not want to pursue a relationship. Either way, there's no reason to attack a woman for doing either. Again, it's her exercising her right to say no/her free will. In fact, I never knew that women were attacked for that. I figured with was just "damn, rejected/friendzoned." This is also true; I'm just going from the OP.

This. Although it happens to more males I always thought it was a something that can happen to anyone, man, woman, straight, gay, etc.

[JokerOfSpades]

Either she's misunderstanding the term, or I've been using it wrong.

Wow. Big ego on that one. Anybody can get friendzoned. And friendzone is speaking in relation to the interested party and has almost zero connotation or judgement in relation to the attracted party.

.

[CoffeeJanitor]

You know, women can get friendzoned too...

Yes. If guys thought about how often they do this stuff themselves they might not get caught up in the nonsense.

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

100% correct I've said it again and again on GAF, and I have yet to see an intelligent retort I married my best friend. No "zones" involved

Of course you should be close friends with your spouse, but it's undeniable that it's possible to be interested in somebody of the preferred sex only as a friend without romantic interest, which is what the "friend zone" term implies.

[Devolution]

Either she's misunderstanding the term, or I've been using it wrong.

Wow. Big ego on that one. Anybody can get friendzoned. And friendzone is speaking in relation to the interested party and has almost zero connotation or judgement in relation to the attracted party.

You both might want to read threads here on GAF on why women and men can't be friends. Same line of logic you're saying doesn't make sense when she criticizes it.

[Ghost_Protocol]

I always thought friendzoning was different from rejection - where the woman in question doesn't even know that the man likes them, but they only think of them as a friend. Either way, a relationship has never been formally discussed. In which case, the man didn't make moves or enough moves. I figured rejection was moreso when the woman knew and decided that they did not want to pursue a relationship. Either way, there's no reason to attack a woman for doing either. Again, it's her exercising her right to say no/her free will. In fact, I never knew that women were attacked for that. I figured with was just "damn, rejected/friendzoned." This is also true; I'm just going from the OP.

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

[Mumei]

Either she's misunderstanding the term, or I've been using it wrong.

I think it's probably more accurate to say that there are different ways of using the term and that she's referring to a way of using it that she comes across often.

I agree that it is possible to 'friend zone" someone, in a sense; I put people I am attracted to but who are off limits for whatever reason (not gay, not available, not attracted to me, etc.) into that mental space.

[Devolution]

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

Wrong. Thanks for speaking for me though.

[JokerOfSpades]

You both might want to read threads here on GAF on why women and men can't be friends. Same line of logic you're saying doesn't make sense when she criticizes it.

Meh, that's silly. Of course they can be friends.

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

I can't tell if you're serious or not because I've seen people say that without a hint of irony.

[Copernicus]

Since when is friendzoning a gender specific thing?


It's an attractiveness thing.

[The Technomancer]

Either she's misunderstanding the term, or I've been using it wrong.

Yeah, this, I think there may be some mismatches in how people mean the phrase.

[edible_candle]

Like others in this thread, I think she's misusing the term 'friendzoned.' Her attack should be more focused on the people who use the concept as a crutch for their own ineptitude at interacting with the opposite sex. And then blame it on women only being into assholes or some other load of bullshit.

Men are equally as likely to friendzone a woman as vice versa.

[Ghost_Protocol]

Meh, that's silly. Of course they can be friends. I can't tell if you're serious or not because I've seen people say that without a hint of irony.

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

[macuser1of5]

I can't tell if you're serious or not because I've seen people say that without a hint of irony.

this thread will be full of these posts in short time.

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

oh you were serious (?) lol

[mr2xxx]

Do people actually "villify" the one friendzoning someone? I always use it to make fun of the person who doesn't have the guts to put themselves outthere and instead hopes that by being friends they might have a shot at some point. I agree with Fox that if you have feelings for someone then put them out there and if they don't respond then move onto the next one.

[kisaya]

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

Nope, sorry.

Seriously though, it's never obvious unless someone tells me straight up. A man's feelings have always been ~mysterious~ to me, so I can never tell.

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

Lol, oh wow. Someone left you bitter :/

[FallingEdge]

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

It really isn't.

[sangreal]

How are women being penalized? Also, I'm sorry, but no you cannot simply stop liking someone because you respect their decision to not share your interest. Combine that with her "option" to remain friends and you have the definition of being in the friendzone -- liking someone that only wants to be friends with you. Whether you respect someone's decision and treat them as a friend, or don't respect their decision and continue to make advances is a completely separate issue. I really have no idea what she is trying to say. Her first option is the one presented when the term friendzone is usually being discussed -- end the friendship.

I'm using a pretty loose definition too, just to make some sense out of the topic. I would definite it more specifically as "thinking you're in a romantic relationship while your partner sees it as platonic."

[The Technomancer]

Men are equally as likely to friendzone a woman as vice versa.

Yeah, I've been on both sides of the interaction a fair number of times. Had a few good female friends who I would only find out months or years later were attracted to me at the time because I just wasn't in the right mental space to notice it.

[Aeana]

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

We're not psychic.

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

You both might want to read threads here on GAF on why women and men can't be friends. Same line of logic you're saying doesn't make sense when she criticizes it.

My argument has never been that the whole "men and women can't be friends" thing is wrong because women separate between friendship and attraction in the preferred sex; it's always been (my argument, that is) that it can exist in either gender.

[edible_candle]

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

This is absolutely not true.

[ScientificNinja]

As a typical rationalist male (as feminists used to call me in college), I hadn't really considered this before.

Enlightening.

[JokerOfSpades]

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

Oh.

I didn't know that women all could fake emotion/emotionless. Pre-made spies (just watched Avengers, sorry).

Tell me, then - there are going to be many women who will come into this thread and tell you you're wrong. Are you preemptively calling them liars?

[BocoDragon]

She wants to make this about some sort of sexist male power structure. It's nothing like that.

Perhaps "friendzone" is some unrealistic male projection on the opposite sex (emphasis on "perhaps".. I don't think it is)... but it wouldn't come from some sort of expectation of male privilege. It's not about controlling women or any feminist fantasy like that.

It comes from the fact that men are ready and willing to have sex with nearly any attractive female. It would be enough for a man to say 'yes' if a woman was nice to him, so it's just confusing for men that women don't operate in the same way. We would fuck you if you were nice to us... so we have to invent some sort of term for why it doesn't necessarily work in reverse.

[Devolution]

Not being ironic. It's a fact.

Stop talking for us and deal with your baggage.

She wants to make this about some sort of sexist male power structure. It's nothing like that. Perhaps "friendzone" is some unrealistic male projection on the opposite sex (emphasis on "perhaps".. I don't think it is)... but it wouldn't come from some sort of expectation of male privilege. It comes from the fact that men are ready and willing to have sex with nearly any attractive female. It would be enough for a man to say yes if a woman was nice to him, so it's just confusing for men that women don't operate in the same way. We would fuck you if you were nice to us... so we have to invent some sort of term for why it does't work in reverse.

I don't believe this. Never have. And I'm surprised so many men let people think that about their gender.

[Lunchbox]

Meh, that's silly. Of course they can be friends.

nope

hint of friendzone means you get out

[Resilient]

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

no.

[Cyan]

You both might want to read threads here on GAF on why women and men can't be friends. Same line of logic you're saying doesn't make sense when she criticizes it.

Oh, I've definitely seen people actually say that sort of stuff (see: "women only like assholes!"/"why do women hate nice guys like me!"). I just didn't think that was associated with the concept of the friendzone.

My understanding of the concept is that it says people (or women, specifically, since that's almost always how it's used) unconsciously classify people as potential sexual partners or not. It's easy, especially early on after meeting someone, to inadvertently slip from the first category to the second. And very difficult to do the reverse. People in the second category are definitely not relationship material, but might be friend material. Thus, "friendzone."

I didn't think there were generally judgments implied of the person doing the unconscious classifying, though I could be wrong.

[Foxy Fox 39]

Nope, sorry. Seriously though, it's never obvious unless someone tells me straight up. A man's feelings have always been ~mysterious~ to me, so I can never tell. Lol, oh wow. Someone left you bitter :/

I...I have something to confess!

[JokerOfSpades]

nope hint of friendzone means you get out

I'm friends with girls I have no interest in.

For the more attractive ones - just because you would feasibly fuck them doesn't mean you:
A) Think about it all the time
B) Think of them as any more than a friend

[HiResDes]

Stop talking for us and deal with your baggage. I don't believe this. Never have. And I'm surprised so many men let people think that about their gender.

I think just like Boco if it means anything.

[BocoDragon]

I don't believe this. Never have. And I'm surprised so many men let people think that about their gender.

Spend a day in a man's body.

Show of hands, gentlemen. Would you be willing to have sex with nearly any attractive female?

I can't believe you'd even argue such a statement, Devolution.

[Staccat0]

Of course you should be close friends with your spouse, but it's undeniable that it's possible to be interested in somebody of the preferred sex only as a friend without romantic interest, which is what the "friend zone" term implies.

That's not how it ever gets used though. Not on GAF at least. Instead, the term "friend zone" and the way people relate to it, turns into this stupid fucking game of cat and mouse where you are purposely mean to girls or do other stupid shit to avoid getting "friend-zoned" when in reality it just means, "I don't find you sexually attractive. You aren't funny, rich, handsome or whatever sets the chemicals of in my brain. So I'm saying 'lets be friends' or 'You are a great friend and I dont want to ruin that' in order to avoid an awkward direct dismissal."

The kicker is, these guys USUALLY aren't that good of friends with the girl in my personal anecdotal experience. It's just a nice let down. Its a meaningless phrase people latch onto in their rejection.

It would be one thing if people said, "I got friend zoned" and meant, "I liked this girl, and she didn't like me... but she isn't pissed when I'm at the same parties or if I wanna hang out"
but usually it means, "I liked this girl, and she said I was too nice" which leads to a lot of embarrassing bullshit conversations.

The phrase usually seems to come from a place of rejection rather than a simple statement of fact or status. Sure some people have friends they wouldn't sleep with. However, that's the vast majority of people they know. Hardly a "zone" one can be "put in" because they slipped up somehow. The "friend zone" is just "Sexually or romantically unappealing" but also not Hitler... pretty broad zone to bitch about being in

[Zefah]

I always shake my head when I read someone seriously write about how they got friend-zoned. It typically just wreaks of arrogance and entitlement in that somehow the guy was wronged because a girl didn't fall in love with him.

[Devolution]

I think just like Boco if it means anything.

Spend a day in a man's body. Show of hands, gentlemen. Would you be willing to have sex with nearly any attractive female? I can't believe you'd even argue such a statement, Devolution.

I'd argue that always viewing people as fuckable things is not a good way to go about shit, yeah.