[luckyboyceo]

I read the blog; I agree with her points about how it's unfair for men to complain about women having a right to choose, but I think the main difference is the same difference that exists between men and women with regards to dating. I don't think there's many men out there that would want a women to date you out of pity, or just because you weren't a prick to them, but it's like men looked at the grading rubric and did all the things that would theoretically get them an A, only for them to fail. Attraction isn't necessarily logical or fair though, so it leads to misplaced anger

Yep. It's not the act itself, it's the miscommunication leading up to it.

There is no such thing as friendzone. Only a "not attractive to me" zone.

If you mean physical attraction, I couldn't disagree more. Of course, not attractive in the sense that he/she is only a friend and not a potential romantic partner, then yes, I'd say that's accurate.

[Trent Strong]

Why don't you address the men who don't agree. What's wrong with them boco?

Maybe they aren't being honest. Maybe they just don't want to look shallow, or they just want to give the politically correct answer.

[HiResDes]

Wanting to have sex with a person equates to objectifying and treating them as a possession...Okay guys, I get it, Devo's always right.

[DanteFox]

Why don't you address the men who don't agree. What's wrong with them boco?

self-selection bias. there are loads of men who agree with boco who won't answer his impromptu poll for multiple reasons. He's not just making it up or projecting his feelings either. This is the male condition. Of course it's not all binary. It's more like a bell curve.

Also everyone who's disagreeing with him is only doing so based on the act itself, not the willingness or urge.

[Foxy Fox 39]

There is no such thing as friendzone. Only a "not attractive to me" zone.

How are you defining attractiveness?

[InsaneZero]

gonna use my kindness coins to go play Time Crisis 2, then.

But does sex come out from there?

[The Technomancer]

Yep. It's not the act itself, it's the miscommunication leading up to it.

Miscommunication in general is the single most damaging thing in any kind of relationship, platonic or romantic, at least based on my experience. The closest I've been to heartbreak and depression was after a sequence of painful events unfolding due to mismatched expectations.

[Trancetronic]

But what about the ol' "i don't want to hurt you" card played? You know, when you say "Hey lets go out" and then they pull that out of their ass, candycoating the blow to make you feel good about yourself and also saving her from feeling guilty? I mean most people lie right? Well it's only natural for them to lie about that, too. It's a sugarcoated lie.

[BeesEight]

We're not psychic.

Oh really? Then how do you always know when we're up to no good?

Checkmate!

Spend a day in a man's body. Show of hands, gentlemen. Would you be willing to have sex with nearly any attractive female? I can't believe you'd even argue such a statement, Devolution.

Shit, don't use my body for this experiment then.

[BocoDragon]

Why don't you address the men who don't agree. What's wrong with them boco?

A difference of semantics on what "want to have sex" means than what I mean. If you even find a woman attractive in the first place, that's a sexual attraction already. That attraction is put upon us by the circuitry of our brains... it doesn't mean that they immediately begin consciously scheming to sleep with her. There's still a choice in that.

[kamspy]

There are a lot of other factors that play into my willingness to sleep with a girl, with drama being paramount.

Yup. When I first started this thread I was siding on the opinion of being always ready and willing to have sex with anyone attractive, but then I realized I'd been systematically blowing off a girl, who would be willing to come over and have any type of sex I want at the drop of a text message. Now I thought to myself, OK, what if I had the chance to just have the sex with no implications of a relationship or anything extra curricular. The answer was yes. :(

If you extended the statement to:

Any guy would have sex with any attractive girl as long as no one in the world found out and there were absolutely no strings attached afterwards.

I'd probably have to agree after a little self analysis.

[mr2xxx]

Why don't you address the men who don't agree. What's wrong with them boco?

To be fair men do have a sexual overperception bias which means a women shows a man attention he thinks "she totally wants me". Women don't have such a bias to cloud thier judgment regarding a man. Doesn't mean that men can't control themselves though, its just something we have to live with.

[Staccat0]

I have no idea what this sentence means, but yes, there is a difference between being rejected outright and "let's just be friends." There is also a difference between being friendzoned and being friends with a girl.

Sorry? It doesn't sound like you were that confused, you answered my question.
I guess it's my opinion that you are wrong. I have always taken, "lets just be friends" as a direct but gentle rejection by a person I know.
There was probably nothing I could have done differently to avoid this "zone" she just wasn't into me. Us being friendly beforehand hardly seems worth mentioning.

If the alternative "zones" are either rejection via stranger or rejection via person who actively dislikes me... If those are the other rarely mentioned zones, I find the need to categorize the most common one as this thing a person can do to you to reek of someone trying to protect themselves from the probable truth. She didn't find me that attractive.
Nothing to make whole threads about "avoiding it" or times "you got friend zoned" but rather the natural end state of most failed courting

[Devolution]

A difference of semantics on what "want to have sex" means than what I mean. If you even find a woman attractive in the first place, that's a sexual attraction already. That attraction is put upon us by the circuitry of our brains... it doesn't mean that they immediately begin consciously scheming to sleep with her. There's still a choice in that.

Moving them goalposts huh?

[Trent Strong]

I don't believe this. Never have. And I'm surprised so many men let people think that about their gender.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...positioned-sex

[macuser1of5]

Maybe they aren't being honest. Maybe they just don't want to look shallow, or they just want to give the politically correct answer.

Or not.

[Kabouter]

Maybe they aren't being honest. Maybe they just don't want to look shallow, or they just want to give the politically correct answer.

Yeah, or maybe they just don't agree with the statement :o

[Devolution]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...positioned-sex

College age men on campus. Not surprising at all. Neither with the women polled. There's also some hilarious statistics on how often college males think other college males are getting sex. And how much they're trying to compete with those imaginary numbers.

[BladeoftheImmortal]

I'd argue that always viewing people as fuckable things is not a good way to go about shit, yeah.

But, would you like to get down tonight? I'm with boco on this one. i can't stop staring at attractive women. And if they were ok with it, id bring them home with me. Every last one pf them. now, that doesn't mean i don't like a friendship with them, but id always be willing to do more if i thought they were pretty.

[HiResDes]

Insinuating that this thought process goes for all men was a bit hyperbolic, but as various studies have shown there does seem to a great difference in how men and women generally view sex and their willingness to engage in it with random people. Males show a positive correlation, while females generally show a recessive one.

[Mudkips]

Friend zoning is when you use someone despite knowing their feelings toward you, while actively feigning just enough interest to give them hope and thus keep them on a string. It's exploitative and cruel.

Otherwise you're just friends or you're just rejected.

[Professor Beef]

But does sex come out from there?

If you 1cc it, yes.

[sangreal]

Sorry? It doesn't sound like you were that confused, you answered my question. I guess it's my opinion that you are wrong. I have always taken, "lets just be friends" as a direct but gentle rejection by a person I know. There was probably nothing I could have done differently to avoid this "zone" she just wasn't into me. Us being friendly beforehand hardly seems worth mentioning. If the alternative "zones" are either rejection via stranger or rejection via person who actively dislikes me... If those are the other rarely mentioned zones, I find the need to categorize the most common one as this thing a person can do to you to reek of someone trying to protect themselves from the probable truth. She didn't find me that attractive. Nothing to make whole threads about "avoiding it" or times "you got friend zoned" but rather the natural end state of most failed courting

I wasn't sure -- I guessed. Like I mentioned before though, I generally think of the friendzone of a non-rejection because it is usually only implied. If a girl says 'I don't like you [for any or no reason]" I wouldn't use the term. I reserve it for cases when someone doesn't realize they're in a strictly platonic relationship.

[Devolution]

Insinuating that this thought process goes for all men was a bit hyperbolic, but as various studies have shown there does seem to a great difference in how men and women generally view sex and their willingness to engage in it with random people. Males show a positive correlation, while females generally show a recessive one.

We have a lot of things going against us, most of it societal, despite how much evopsych biological bullshit some are going to post in this thread. If we could be satiated with little to no sex, you definitely wouldn't see aristocratic women writing of philandering with their servants or other nobility. It's more of a thing imposed on us and shaming of our body at a young age.

[Warm Machine]

I think most men, when they see or meet anyone of the opposite sex does a conscious and subconscious level judgement call on how attractive that person is to them. Within the judgement call is a rating on the possibility of a relationship however you want to define it.

This scale is going to slant in one direction or another depending on that persons personal situation. Single swinging guy is going to err on the side of sexual objectification of whoever he passes on the street. Your button down happily married guy is hardly going to notice what is infront of him until he get pretty direct signals.

It isn't as black and white as what Boco is suggesting but he isn't wrong depending on situation.

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Friend zoning is when you use someone despite knowing their feelings toward you, while actively feigning just enough interest to give them hope and thus keep them on a string. It's exploitative and cruel. Otherwise you're just friends or you're just rejected.

That's not friendzoning. That's just being a manipulative dick.

I see friendzoning as being rejected but being either oblivious or in denial.

[BocoDragon]

Moving them goalposts huh?

Getting more specific, since you pressed for it. I was making a statement in reference to male biology, and how our minds prepare us for sexual attraction based on nothing more than first looks (Women are less so like that, apparantly). Whether or not they actually want to act on that attraction is entirely their business.

In relation to my original post, just adding female friendliness to that visual attractiveness would probably make for a potential mate. But it doesn't appear simple enough for a man to be good looking and "nice" to elicit the same potential for a women.

[kisaya]

Friend zoning is when you use someone despite knowing their feelings toward you, while actively feigning just enough interest to give them hope and thus keep them on a string. It's exploitative and cruel. Otherwise you're just friends or you're just rejected.

I would hope when a girl friend zones someone they'd be a bit more considerate of their feelings >_< I would be more careful of my actions towards that person if anything. I think what you're saying is something totally different.

[HiResDes]

Sure there are societal forces at play, for example the rampant use of the negatively connotative term "slut" used to describe a woman and the positive connotative term "pimp" but I'm not so sure these forces are the only factor.

[onemic]

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

Not true

[Trent Strong]

Or not.

Yeah, or maybe they just don't agree with the statement :o

Yeah, you're right. But I did say "maybe". Besides, I don't think GAF, and especially GAFfers who frequent threads on feminism, are really a representative sample of the population at large.

[Devolution]

Sure there are societal forces at play, for example the rampant use of the negatively connotative term "slut" used to describe a woman and the positive connotative term "pimp" but I'm not so sure these forces are the only factor.

If I'm going to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of women just prefer their vibrator.

[macuser1of5]

If I'm going to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of women just prefer their vibrator.

Only if it's gold plated.

[JokerOfSpades]

If I'm going to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of women just prefer their vibrator.

I'd doubt that, but I'm not a woman.

[FallingEdge]

Also everyone who's disagreeing with him is only doing so based on the act itself, not the willingness or urge.

Or, OR, they are being honest in what they are saying.

Seriously, people aren't all the same. Stop trying to lump them in the same category.

[Devolution]

I'd doubt that, but I'm not a woman.

Why would you doubt it? No expectations, no contraception of any kind necessary, and you're guaranteed to get off.

[Ezalc]

Friend zoning is when you use someone despite knowing their feelings toward you, while actively feigning just enough interest to give them hope and thus keep them on a string. It's exploitative and cruel. Otherwise you're just friends or you're just rejected.

No this is leading somebody on.

[DanteFox]

Or, OR, they are being honest in what they are saying. Seriously, people aren't all the same. Stop trying to lump them in the same category.

People are largely the same at the instinctual level. Whether or not they act on those instincts is up to them completely though, that much I agree with.

[JokerOfSpades]

Or, OR, they are being honest in what they are saying. Seriously, people aren't all the same. Stop trying to lump them in the same category.

Generalizing is necessary for studies. You can't keep appealing to individuality because there are some people who don't fit the norm.

(This comment is on generalization in general, not on boco's comment)

[Professor Beef]

Women ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS know when a guy likes them. ALWAYS.

I'm going to friendzone this post.

[macuser1of5]

Yeah, you're right. But I did say "maybe". Besides, I don't think GAF, and especially GAFfers who frequent threads on feminism, are really a representative sample of the population at large.

Well 10 years ago I would probably fuck a couch if it gave me the eyes, but now I really can look at someone and say, yeah, they are attractive, and have honestly zero sexual desire toward them.. I dont want to say its maturity, because I don't think it is related, just me in a different life place now.

[JokerOfSpades]

Why would you doubt it? No expectations, no contraception of any kind necessary, and you're guaranteed to get off.

Masturbation rarely compares to the real thing for anyone.

[kisaya]

If I'm going to be honest it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of women just prefer their vibrator.

Eeeeeh, from what I'm told not really lol.

[FyreWulff]

Older male rolemodels in my life basically spewing this friendzone bullshit resulted in me basically throwing away a friendship in school because there's basically an undercurrent of "you ain't tryin' to get in those pants, you're a failure" when dealing with women.

Thankfully I figured out that I didn't have to do this later on, but damn.

[etiolate]

Friend zoning is when you use someone despite knowing their feelings toward you, while actively feigning just enough interest to give them hope and thus keep them on a string. It's exploitative and cruel. Otherwise you're just friends or you're just rejected.

This is the dark side of friendzoning.

There's the initial friendzone, where one side is attracted but the other is not. Normally, this eventually resolves itself as both parties move on past the issue.

Then there's friendzoning as a gateway to a manipulative relationship. This is like permanent-friendzoning, though there is no friendship really involved so it's an odd term for it.



This special etiolate appearance is brought to you tonight by the blog in the OP that puts forth some bullshit to start gender wars.

[AdrianWerner]

Meh. It's almost always a man's fault. If you want to sleep with a woman you need to make it pretty clear early on. If she says no, you can then move on. If instead you don't make it clear and hang around her for months or years as friend, then sorry, you can only blame yourself.

[Devolution]

Masturbation rarely compares to the real thing for anyone.

If the real thing isn't getting women off they use them anyway which honestly it doesn't in a lot of cases. At some point they don't even bother with the former. Especially younger women who have to deal with less experienced men and haven't explored themselves very well. A lot of women fake it and don't get off from penetration alone. Bad sexual experiences, being raped, there's all kinds of baggage that doesn't really get talked about, least of all by us since we're called names when we do.

Eeeeeh, from what I'm told not really lol.

Not if they have good sex but I've had some weird and sad conversations about faking it. (I don't.) Then just getting herself off later.

edit: Forgot to mention most of the b/c I've taken is a real libido killer unless I keep it up myself through various means.

[cutmeamango]

I enemyzone girls.

[squidyj]

Hell no, but it certainly doesn't count against a girl. There are a lot of other factors that play into my willingness to sleep with a girl, with drama being paramount.

Yeah. I went out with this crazy girl for a while. In the end it was seriously damaging and totally not worth it.

[Buckethead]

Friendzoning is fine but when you send mixed signals and try to dump your emotional BS on me - you can fuck right off.