[Atrus]

Friendzoning is a mental state, not a woman who chooses to say no. The no comes from that mental state and that itself is what's avoided aka. Avoiding the Friendzone.

This is where men accidentally fail to pursue a romantic relationship and end up being friends instead, from which there is usually substantial difficulty in reattaining that original, primary goal.

[Lionel Mandrake]

I have totally friendzoned girls.

[Rhythmic]

Yep. It's not the act itself, it's the miscommunication leading up to it. If you mean physical attraction, I couldn't disagree more. Of course, not attractive in the sense that he/she is only a friend and not a potential romantic partner, then yes, I'd say that's accurate.

The second part mostly. It can be based on physical attraction if that is the only thing somebody cares about.

How are you defining attractiveness?

Attractiveness as in whatever qualities a person looks for in a relationship worthy person. physical, mental or whatever. People in general find different things attractive.

[Rentahamster]

One point of contention that I would have with the blogger's stated definitions - that the term "friendzone" is sort of the opposite of "slut" in that it is a pejorative against women who don't put out enough - is that it's not how I normally use the word and how I see others use it.

In my perception, it is more about highlighting the failings of a guy who can't seem to get involved with girls romantically and just ends up pathetically resigned to be friends. i.e. a pejorative against loser males rather than "non-slutty" girls.

[Staccat0]

Friendzoning is a mental state, not a woman who chooses to say no. The no comes from that mental state and that itself is what's avoided aka. Avoiding the Friendzone. This is where men accidentally fail to pursue a romantic relationship and end up being friends instead, from which there is usually substantial difficulty in reattaining that original, primary goal.

[Aylinato]

There IS a "friend zone," in that it's possible to end up friends with somebody in whom you're interested but who doesn't return that affection. No woman is obligated to be romantically attracted to any particular man, but if she chooses to remain friends with him after rejecting him, it's only natural that a guy would read a pattern into that, i.e. I've been rejected romantically but am "good enough" to be a friend. It's not a matter of "putting kindness coins into a sex machine," it's a matter of feeling dejected when somebody rejects you in favor of somebody who seems to be a less desirable partner for one reason or another. I don't doubt that there are guys who adopt the former view, mind, but that doesn't negate the social currency of an entire term. Edit: Also, friend zone can be used pretty gender mutually; at least, I wouldn't really bat an eye if I heard of an instance where a woman had been "friend-zoned" by a man. All the term really denotes is "two friends - one is romantically interested, the other isn't." There's nothing sexist that HAS to be inherent there.

Yes, I believe the word she was looking for was the word 0tease" which directly indicates the idea that a woman is an object. friendzone is not women exclusive.(can happen to any sexual person interested in another person)

[Atrus]

It's true and both men and women of sufficient dating experience know it exists. I've talked with women I go out with all the time about their friends and they know which of the men in their lives have been friendzoned (their words).

[RyougaSaotome]

Not if they have good sex but I've had some weird and sad conversations about faking it. (I don't.) Then just getting herself off later.

This is kind of off topic, but this type of stuff always makes me sad. For either gender if there's something that's not working or something you think could lead to better sex, honesty can go a long way in a relationship where you trust your partner.

Of course, that's certainly a lot to ask of some men and women but still.

[WickedCobra03]

I see it both ways. First, sure, I get that women are not basically objects of men's entertainment too. But I also see the other side where women can be very deceiving for their own entertainment and basically flirt the hell out of a guy and repeatedly turn them down. And at that point, I feel like raw biology is working against the men in this case where basically they can be easily lured by a woman's flirtation methods.

[edit] I by the way am one of those guys who can just go into a relationship with a girl and it be strictly for friendship just because I like the person, but don't have any romantic feelings for them whatsoever.

[kisaya]

I see it both ways. First, sure, I get that women are not basically objects of men's entertainment too. But I also see the other side where women can be very deceiving for their own entertainment and basically flirt the hell out of a guy and repeatedly turn them down. And at that point, I feel like raw biology is working against the men in this case where basically they can be easily lured by a woman's flirtation methods.

I feel like both parties shouldn't expect anything from just flirting :/ I guess I'm just guilty of this, I usually like to be playful with people I either feel comfortable with or with those that I feel don't see me in that way.

[Phat Michael]

god this shit is so retarded. How old are half the people in this thread?

The last 2 x GF's i had have both were friends before we ever hooked up. I was friends for 2 years with one of them, then friends for about 10 years with the other.

I trusted both implicitly and it just felt right when it happened because we had both known each other for so long.

If a girl says she wants to be friends, then be friends with her. Nothing wrong with having a new friend - one day she might look at you in a different light but dont pressure her or look out for it.

Seriously, its not that complicated.

[Devolution]

This is kind of off topic, but this type of stuff always makes me sad. For either gender if there's something that's not working or something you think could lead to better sex, honesty can go a long way in a relationship where you trust your partner. Of course, that's certainly a lot to ask of some men and women but still.

Funny thing is it's not too off topic since it all centers around the same thing: people don't want to be direct. They'd rather lie or talk in euphemisms and cloudy rhetoric than communicate the truth. The motivation to do so isn't always the same but people can just save themselves a lot of grief by leveling with friends and partners about their desires.

[devilhawk]

Friend zoning is when you use someone despite knowing their feelings toward you, while actively feigning just enough interest to give them hope and thus keep them on a string. It's exploitative and cruel. Otherwise you're just friends or you're just rejected.

Took 121 posts. This is the cruelest type, sure.

Just being friends with a girl doesn't count as being friend zoned, as being in the friend zone means one person was put there despite their wishes. If a guy says he is friend zoned by a girl he definitely was not initially intending on being her friend. In that case, one is normally not still their friend. In the cruelest cases of friend zoning you get the quoted above, in most others you get no friendship at all.

[Horse Detective]

I have friend zoned way more girls than the other way around.

I think this is only a debate if you are really terrible at talking to people/accepting when someone just isn't into you.

[Keikaku]

I was going to say something but it looks like, between them, Devo and Kabouter have it covered.

[bangladesh]

I love watching guys feeding a chick's ego. They're like parasites and the chick makes use of them.

[etiolate]

I feel like both parties shouldn't expect anything from just flirting :/ I guess I'm just guilty of this, I usually like to be playful with people I either feel comfortable with or think they don't see me in that way.

It's probably best not to do this. Flirtation as a tool to initiate romantic interest and as a tool for playfulness without intent is then a dangerous tool. The other side can't be expected to tell which is which and the flirter can't be expected to know how the object of flirtation feels initially. Everyone is then just guessing at the truth without every asking for or telling the truth.

[enzo_gt]

What she is wrong about is the actual behavioural component of the woman saying "no." Often is not explicit, or not explicit enough to make clear communication, get people on the same page and avoid the dreaded friend zone that is the discrepancy in the status of relations between two people.

[Devolution]

It's probably best not to do this. Flirtation as a tool to initiate romantic interest and as a tool for playfulness without intent is then a dangerous tool. The other side can't be expected to tell which is which and the flirter can't be expected to know how the object of flirtation feels initially. Everyone is then just guessing at the truth without every asking for or telling the truth.

Problem is some people are naturally this way, with everyone. I don't think the answer is for everyone to stop being overly friendly.

Edit: Also some people are so desperate they misinterpret any sign of friendliness.

[Foxy Fox 39]

[Poimandres]

My girlfriends housemate and her friends go out on weekend with the specific intention of leading guys on and not having to pay for a single drink. I've heard them talking and laughing about all the guys that fall at their feet, and how easy it is to manipulate them.

Not really relevant here, but god damn it pissed me off.

[KO Traveling Hobo]

Problem is some people are naturally this way, with everyone. I don't think the answer is for everyone to stop being overly friendly.

This I agree with. It's simpler to just assume that all flirtation is innocent.

[Freezie KO]

Women have so much power every step of the way in the courtship process. Give us this one word.

[Devolution]

My girlfriends housemate and her friends go out on weekend with the specific intention of leading guys on and not having to pay for a single drink. I've heard them talking and laughing about all the guys that fall at their feet, and how easy it is to manipulate them. Not really relevant here, but god damn it pissed me off.

Next time they do this, tell her to record them, put on youtube. I'm sure this is illegal but they deserve it.

[Mumei]

It's probably best not to do this. Flirtation as a tool to initiate romantic interest and as a tool for playfulness without intent is then a dangerous tool. The other side can't be expected to tell which is which and the flirter can't be expected to know how the object of flirtation feels initially. Everyone is then just guessing at the truth without every asking for or telling the truth.

*shrug*

I think flirting can be fun for its own sake. It doesn't actually have to indicate that there's interest in anything more and I feel like it's presumptuous when someone thinks that because there was a bit of flirting going on that they feel entitled to expect anything more.

[Gustav]

Spend a day in a man's body. Show of hands, gentlemen. Would you be willing to have sex with nearly any attractive female? I can't believe you'd even argue such a statement, Devolution.

No. Only the special ones deserve my love.

[saunderez]

Took 121 posts. This is the cruelest type, sure. Just being friends with a girl doesn't count as being friend zoned, as being in the friend zone means one person was put there despite their wishes. If a guy says he is friend zoned by a girl he definitely was not initially intending on being her friend. In that case, one is normally not still their friend. In the cruelest cases of friend zoning you get the quoted above, in most others you get no friendship at all.

Yep agree with this whole post.

Friend zoning involves feigning interest or stringing someone along. I have been in this situation. We'd been friends for many years. We had gotten really close, we had kissed and slept in the same bed plenty of times but never had sex. I wanted to know whether or not I was wasting my time pursuing her so I told her how I felt to see if she felt the same way. She said she had feelings for me but wasn't looking for a relationship at that time. So I continued waiting for her to be ready for a relationship and later found out she'd been seeing someone else. Totally destroyed the friendship all because she didn't want to let go of her "backup plan" and all I was looking for was to be cut free if she wasn't interested. That is real friend zoning and its cruel and unnecessary and it definitely isn't exclusive to females.

It's a totally different story when the other party doesn't know you're interested, but when you flat out tell them how you feel and they continue to string you along it's definitely friend zoning.

[Soul_Pie]

I feel like bringing words like sexism and feminism into the equation is really misinterpreting the situation, it's a communication problem more than anything else I feel and something that can happen to both girls and boys.

To give an example, when I was in university, there was this girl who I hung around with as a friend who I really liked in a purely platonic way, she wanted more but I didn't know that. I have a bit of a tendency to be a playful, jokey person and I think that might have come off as being flirty, I'm not sure. Anyway, we were at a party one night and we both got a bit drunk and she started coming onto me, I was a bit stunned and didn't really want any of it and she accused me of leading her on and asking me why I didn't have the guts to ask her out, then she started crying. It was a weird situation because I never thought she felt that way. I actually felt really bad about it for a long while.

In any case, I think friendzone is a stupid term anyway and simplifies what is often a fairly difficult and complicated aspect to a boy/girl relationship, especially when our own wants out of a friendship can change in time.

[HiResDes]

*shrug* I think flirting can be fun for its own sake. It doesn't actually have to indicate that there's interest in anything more and I feel like it's presumptuous when someone thinks that because there was a bit of flirting going on that they feel entitled to expect anything more.

Whether or not they are entitled is moot. They may very well suppress such expectations, but mutual flirting definitely triggers at least the thought or contemplation of something more.

[JokerOfSpades]

My girlfriends housemate and her friends go out on weekend with the specific intention of leading guys on and not having to pay for a single drink. I've heard them talking and laughing about all the guys that fall at their feet, and how easy it is to manipulate them. Not really relevant here, but god damn it pissed me off.

Oh, I know about this. I've already let you guys know how a female friend got me and some friends out of paying for something by seducing a guy. I know quite a few females who know their power... and use it.

[Devolution]

Oh, I know about this. I've already let you guys know how a female friend got me and some friends out of paying for something by seducing a guy. I know quite a few females who know their power... and use it.

You do realize "their power" is only a manifestation of the desperation of some men right? You don't give a fuck, "their power" ceases to exist.

[Gustav]

I always thought that friend zoning is when person a keeps in contact with person b, knowing that person b has feelings for person a and abusing this for little ego boosts from time to time.

[Cipherr]

Spend a day in a man's body. Show of hands, gentlemen. Would you be willing to have sex with nearly any attractive female? I can't believe you'd even argue such a statement, Devolution.

No I wouldn't. The hell is the matter with you.

[Glass Rebel]

I always thought that friend zoning is when person a keeps in contact with person b, knowing that person b has feelings for person a and abusing this for little ego boosts from time to time.

That's what I thought too but thanks to the internet it's applied to every instance of not getting game. *sugh*

[kisaya]

It's probably best not to do this. Flirtation as a tool to initiate romantic interest and as a tool for playfulness without intent is then a dangerous tool. The other side can't be expected to tell which is which and the flirter can't be expected to know how the object of flirtation feels initially. Everyone is then just guessing at the truth without every asking for or telling the truth.

See, I don't view it that way though. When someone flirts with me I don't jump to the conclusion that they're romantically interested in me. Maybe I'm just insecure, but I feel like someone has do more than just flirting to convince me otherwise (or just say it straight up).

[JokerOfSpades]

You do realize "their power" is only a manifestation of the desperation of some men right? You don't give a fuck, "their power" ceases to exist.

But of course - I never meant it any differently.

Any reaction that anyone gets out of you is a manifestation of that power over you.

[Poimandres]

Oh, I know about this. I've already let you guys know how a female friend got me and some friends out of paying for something by seducing a guy. I know quite a few females who know their power... and use it.

I'm sure it's common, and almost certain I've been the victim of this kind of behaviour!

If women don't want to be seen as sexual objects the culture that encourages this needs to change. Personally, one of my biggest annoyances in life is people taking advantage of other people, or thinking of themselves as superior, and this is a prime example of that way of thinking.

[KO Traveling Hobo]

You do realize "their power" is only a manifestation of the desperation of some men right? You don't give a fuck, "their power" ceases to exist.

That doesn't make it right, though.

[Atrus]

See, I don't view it that way though. When someone flirts with me I don't jump to the conclusion that they're romantically interested in me. Maybe I'm just insecure, but I feel like someone has do more than just flirting to convince me otherwise (or just say it straight up).

It works differently for men. A single man in a social setting is likely going to see a number of women he may be interested in pursuing. Depending on the man he may make an approach or he may just be nervous and idly think about it.

Either way, he is going to have an interest and flirting back is going to act as a reaffirmation signal to that. Typically men are usually the ones who put themselves out there and are in receipt of a significant number of negative responses that naturally make people feel bad. When you get a positive reaction, it's going to count for a lot because of its comparison to the negative ones. It also provides for a lot of confusion as negative responses are bad and some positive responses are bad.

When women make the approach, it is socially atypical and it's innately going to carry an affirmation of interest.

[soultron]

I find it funny how this blog uses the term as something used to vilify women. I've always thought of the friendzone is something that's a guy's fault because of his own lack of honesty/expression of intent early on, in the very formative stages of the relationship.

[Devolution]

That doesn't make it right, though.

And I said or implied this?

[DominoKid]

friendzoning as i see it is a way to reject somebody w/o actually getting your hands dirty.

it's the easy way out basically.
and it wastes your time and mine.

[kisaya]

friendzoning as i see it is a way to reject somebody w/o actually getting your hands dirty. it's the easy way out basically. and it wastes your time and mine.

Not really, only a waste of time if that somebody still has hope. I'll say though that it's better to be direct.

[saunderez]

friendzoning as i see it is a way to reject somebody w/o actually getting your hands dirty. it's the easy way out basically. and it wastes your time and mine.

Exactly. And the worst part about it is that when the friendzoned person realises they've been friendzoned it often ruins the friendship. It's hard to trust someone who can't be honest with and if you can't trust them are they really a friend? IMO it's much easier to just be rejected and let the feelings you have for them go.

[Glass Rebel]

Exactly. And the worst part about it is that when the friendzoned person realises they've been friendzoned it often ruins the friendship. It's hard to trust someone who can't be honest with and if you can't trust them are they really a friend? IMO it's much easier to just be rejected and let the feelings you have for them go.

Trust and honesty is a two-way street though and guys tend to be quite dishonest in these situations as well.

[saunderez]

Trust and honesty is a two-way street though and guys tend to be quite dishonest in these situations as well.

True, I'm just speaking from my experience where I was open about my feelings and was friendzoned just to keep me around. Learned my lesson though and it's something I certainly wouldn't put someone through.

[Ixzion]

A commenter in that post summed up my thoughts pretty well:

Freindzoning is real, and involves real manipulation. The object of the infatuation knows of the pain of their admirer full well, and yet chooses not to do the kind thing, which is to cease and reject all contact. Instead they bask in the undivided support and attention, if not worship they receive, which clearly exceeds anything they could expect from a mere friend. They hold the whip hand, and they know it. And they like it. Yes of course the admirer harbours hopes for some kind of sexual 'reward' for grimly holding on, Hoping by their persistence and generosity that their strength of feeling will somehow be recognized and eventually reciprocated. Naive, yes, but if it were only about sex, there are far easier ways... So yes, women (or men) who chose to gratify their own egos, abusing the strength of feeling of a love sick friend ahead of putting that friend out of his/her misery deserves whatever label that friend finally needs to apply to his or her tormentor to escape that horrible and unhealthy situation

[soultron]

friendzoning as i see it is a way to reject somebody w/o actually getting your hands dirty. it's the easy way out basically. and it wastes your time and mine.

Consider the case wherein the dude is too much of a wuss to ask a girl out in the very beginning stages of them being introduced and getting to know one another. He plays along as a friend for the longest time even though he wants more, but again, is too much of a wuss to ever assert himself. (It's too late by that time anyway because he's friendzoned himself.)

Even if you're in the case wherein a woman is manipulative, it's something that makes you smarter and better off once you finally realize it. It's like how you learn self-respect after you've been cheated on and know that the next time someone does it to you that you'll kick them to the curb without a second chance. Being friendzoned by a girl is something that something that every guy should go through, in my opinion. If they don't wise up after a few instances of it happening, they're probably hopeless saps.

[HiResDes]

What a well-written and insightful comment, I'm surprised, had gotten so use to the likes of YouTube.

[kisaya]

Exactly. And the worst part about it is that when the friendzoned person realises they've been friendzoned it often ruins the friendship. It's hard to trust someone who can't be honest with and if you can't trust them are they really a friend? IMO it's much easier to just be rejected and let the feelings you have for them go.

Wait what? Isn't friendzoning rejection? It's pretty much the person telling you that they only see you as a friend and nothing more o_o that sounds pretty honest to me (unless she doesn't want to be around you and just wants to be nice, then yeah that's wrong). It's just up to you if you rather be a friend or an acquaintance.