[saunderez]

Wait what? Isn't friendzoning rejection?

Friendzoning is rejection without the rejection part. Getting rejected is a different thing altogether, it's the preferable option.

[soultron]

True, I'm just speaking from my experience where I was open about my feelings and was friendzoned just to keep me around. Learned my lesson though and it's something I certainly wouldn't put someone through.

When and how you chose to lay your feelings bare is sort of important. Care to provide some context?

Forgive me because I'm about to go all Dating-Age up in this.

[Devolution]

I don't think people are understanding what she's getting at. She's talking about the dichotomy of our decisions and how (whether people agree or not is up for debate) our decisions are often viewed from a negative male perspective. That's the whole point of the slut vs friendzone binary she's set up.

[soultron]

Friendzoning is rejection without the rejection part. Getting rejected is a different thing altogether, it's the preferable option.

Still, sometimes it's your fault, as a guy. Sorry if this is hard to accept, but it's one of the possible cases of a "friendzoning."

[jordan0386]

If your cute enough, you'll eventually sleep with all your female friends.

[Glass Rebel]

I don't think people are understanding what she's getting at. She's talking about the dichotomy of our decisions and how (whether people agree or not is up for debate) our decisions are often viewed from a negative male perspective. That's the whole point of the slut vs friendzone binary she's set up.

Well you see what would you rather have, a key that can open every lock...

No seriously, if that's what she's getting at she has a point and I absolutely agree but the two of them are not comparable at all for obvious reasons.

[kisaya]

Friendzoning is rejection without the rejection part. Getting rejected is a different thing altogether, it's the preferable option.

I'm still confused. Where is friendzoning hiding the rejection? Yeah it's a "nicer" method, but it's still rejection.

[HiResDes]

Friendzoning can definitely be used as a slander, it's been misappropriated so much that it has become part of the misogynist slang vernacular.

[WARCOCK]

Friendzoning is rejection without the rejection part. Getting rejected is a different thing altogether, it's the preferable option.

I don't understand this. View it from a purely pragmatic perspective. That person is offering you friendship, if you don't want it and you were just in it for the game/ass then just politely get the fuck out. You get a sort of diplomatic upperhand with regards to the fate of the relation. As opposed to rejection, which is just an awkward, K BYE. If you get bitter because of it, i'm sorry but it's your bad, unless you were clearly being abused/used.

[Devolution]

Well you see what would you rather have, a key that can open every lock... No seriously, if that's what she's getting at she has a point and I absolutely agree but the two of them are not comparable at all for obvious reasons.

What's not comparable?

[kisaya]

I don't understand this. View it from a purely pragmatic perspective. That person is offering you friendship, if you don't want it and you were just in it for the game/ass than just politely get the fuck out. You get a sort of diplomatic upperhand with regards to the fate of the relation. As opposed to rejection, which is just an awkward, K BYE.

Exactly. You guys sound like you just want to hear something like "No I'm not interested, stay away from me."
I mean if you do that's fine, but sometimes the person saying that doesn't feel that way.

[TheKaeptain]

If your cute enough, you'll eventually sleep with all your female friends.

No.

[saunderez]

When and how you chose to lay your feelings bare is sort of important. Care to provide some context? Forgive me because I'm about to go all Dating-Age up in this.

We had a complicated friendship. We were introduced through friends at the pub, hit it off immediately, made out slept in the same bed, no sex. Spent a lot of time together, I stayed over at her place a lot, we made out but it never went any further. After months of this I wanted to know what the deal was so I put it on the table ("The Talk" as it would be called on HIMYM). Got the whole "I have feelings for you but don't want to be in a relationship right now" thing. I was fine with that but eventually the intimacy stopped and it wasn't until later I found out second hand that she was seeing someone else. I feel like an idiot for being so oblivious to the situation but if she hadn't strung me along I would've moved on. I'm not exactly sure how I was to blame in this situation, I made my intentions clear from the get go and we were way more intimate than friends should be so in hindsight it's obvious I was being strung along.

Exactly. You guys sound like you just want to hear something like "No I'm not interested, stay away from me." I mean if you do that's fine, but sometimes the person saying that doesn't feel that way.

"I'm not interested in you that way" works fine for me. I'm sure my female friends wouldn't want me to string them along if they had feelings for me, honesty goes a long way. I've been on the other side of the fence, rejecting someone sucks but it's the decent thing to do.

[kisaya]

We had a complicated friendship. We were introduced through friends at the pub, hit it off immediately, made out slept in the same bed, no sex. Spent a lot of time together, I stayed over at her place a lot, we made out but it never went any further. After months of this I wanted to know what the deal was so I put it on the table ("The Talk" as it would be called on HIMYM). Got the whole "I have feelings for you but don't want to be in a relationship right now" thing. I was fine with that but eventually the intimacy stopped and it wasn't until later I found out second hand that she was seeing someone else. I feel like an idiot for being so oblivious to the situation but if she hadn't strung me along I would've moved on.

That's not friendzoning. Sounds like she was confused and just led you on to have something on the side.

[Bleepey]

Stop talking for us and deal with your baggage. I don't believe this. Never have. And I'm surprised so many men let people think that about their gender.

You were the person who tried to argue that it's just as hard for a girl to get load as it is a guy right? If so, with all due respect, your opinion doesn't matter.Oh and *raises hand* if you put me in the Playboy mansion filled to the brim with stunning nymphomaniacs fighting to have first hand knowledge of what my cock takes like, I, and 99% of men wouldn't give too fucks really about "personality".

[Devolution]

You were the person who tried to argue that it's just as hard for a girl to get load as it is a guy right? If so, with all due respect, your opinion doesn't matter.Oh and *raises hand* if you put me in the Playboy mansion filled to the brim with stunning nymphomaniacs fighting to have first hand knowledge of what my cock takes like, I, and 99% of men wouldn't give too fucks really about "personality".

No, you were of the opinion that "attractive" women never get rejected and could get laid if they want to. Which is frankly bullshit and already been pulled in this thread, so thanks.

[etiolate]

People deciding to be friends instead of involved is really different than what friendzone truly implies. If friendzone was as simple as getting rejected then it wouldn't be the big issue it is.

People want to demonize the male in the situation by saying they have egotistical expectations of women (that they owe him something) and other men want to demoralize the male because a male not handling rejection well or getting rejected is seen as weakness in the male's constant hunter/pursuer role. Of course, friendzone is something both men and women can get trapped in and really, the issue of friendzone speaks about an abusive relationship. That's why it's a hot issue. It's not about a dichotomy of yes/no to the let's fuck question. It's about the dangerous gray area in between that allows one side to take advantage of the other.

[Glass Rebel]

What's not comparable?

"slut" and "friendzone". And I'm not talking about the grammatical difference.

I could see "slut" ("she's bad because she wants to have sex") and "prude" ("she's bad because she doesn't want to have sex") but the term "friendzone" puts a lot more factors into her equation that distract from the point she apparently wants to make.

Mind you, I'm not saying that females shouldn't complain about the term and all the male (and female) behaviour that leads to such a situation but "slut" is inherently more rooted in sexism and especially misogyny than "friendzone".

[soultron]

We had a complicated friendship. We were introduced through friends at the pub, hit it off immediately, made out slept in the same bed, no sex. Spent a lot of time together, I stayed over at her place a lot, we made out but it never went any further. After months of this I wanted to know what the deal was so I put it on the table ("The Talk" as it would be called on HIMYM). Got the whole "I have feelings for you but don't want to be in a relationship right now" thing. I was fine with that but eventually the intimacy stopped and it wasn't until later I found out second hand that she was seeing someone else. I feel like an idiot for being so oblivious to the situation but if she hadn't strung me along I would've moved on.

This isn't even a case of friendzoning, in my opinion. It was someone who was confused and used you until something better came up. I hope you've learned that, in the present, when someone feeds you an excuse like that you drop them instantly, or to keep your distance and cut off all physical intimacy. This isn't even some game-y "power shift" bullshit -- it's just basic self-respect.

What she did was shitty, no doubt. But I still don't see this as a friendzoning.

If I had to guess you were young and there was booze involved?

[DominoKid]

Consider the case wherein the dude is too much of a wuss to ask a girl out in the very beginning stages of them being introduced and getting to know one another. He plays along as a friend for the longest time even though he wants more, but again, is too much of a wuss to ever assert himself. (It's too late by that time anyway because he's friendzoned himself.) Even if you're in the case wherein a woman is manipulative, it's something that makes you smarter and better off once you finally realize it. It's like how you learn self-respect after you've been cheated on and know that the next time someone does it to you that you'll kick them to the curb without a second chance. Being friendzoned by a girl is something that something that every guy should go through, in my opinion. If they don't wise up after a few instances of it happening, they're probably hopeless saps.

I can't consider it because I don't know what that's like. I can only speak from experience.

[Aurean_Mentat]

See, I also take a view of friend zoning as something along the lines of being a backup dick. A friend of mine was strung along by this girl for years... she was married to someone else, had sex with people other than her husband, but did just enough to my friend to string him along. She would use him for the emotional intimacy she craved, dump her problems on him, then go have sex with her husband/ people she met in clubs. The worst part is that he couldn't see it... that's the most insidious part.

And honestly, when it comes right down to it, what's wrong with a 'I don't think about you like that.' in response to someone's honest expression of their feelings?

I mean, generally speaking, if the person you really like doesn't think about you in the same terms, space is sometimes the most healthy thing possible. Emotions aren't rational things, and if you can't remain in an emotionally healthy space while being around the object of your unreturned affection, then you tell them that. You accept their decision, and you move on (preferably to someone else who you either have no romantic feelings for, or you have a decent shot of having them reciprocated [eventually]).

At the end of the day, you have to do what's right for you to do. Not saying that you have a license to be a dick [no one does], or that you're petty, or call the person in question who you have unrequited romantic feelings for names, or do any underhanded crap, but having viewed firsthand a chick doing this to one of my good friends, and the damage it did to him, I have zero tolerance for that crap, or anything even remotely resembling it.

[kisaya]

"I'm not interested in you that way" works fine for me. I'm sure my female friends wouldn't want me to string them along if they had feelings for me, honesty goes a long way. I've been on the other side of the fence, rejecting someone sucks but it's the decent thing to do.

But friendzoning involves that. I mean that's what would I say, "I'm not interested in you that way, just as friends." ?

[Bleepey]

You do realize "their power" is only a manifestation of the desperation of some men right? You don't give a fuck, "their power" ceases to exist.

So a guy is automatically desperate if he finds a girl attractive....hmmmm

Girls who look like this

[JokerOfSpades]

No, you were of the opinion that "attractive" women never get rejected and could get laid if they want to. Which is frankly bullshit and already been pulled in this thread, so thanks.

See, that's the thing - I don't recall anyone speaking in absolutes like that.

In regards to the topic, I'm sticking with my first post - I was certain friendzoning and rejection were different.

"slut" and "friendzone". And I'm not talking about the grammatical difference. I could see "slut" ("she's bad because she wants to have sex") and "prude" ("she's bad because she doesn't want to have sex") but the term "friendzone" puts a lot more factors into her equation that distract from the point she apparently wants to make. Mind you, I'm not saying that females shouldn't complain about the term and all the male (and female) behaviour that leads to such a situation but "slut" is inherently more rooted in sexism and especially misogyny than "friendzone".

Oh, and agreed.

[kisaya]

Why would you guys see friendzoning as back up dick? It's either you're my friend or not, whatever you prefer. End of story.

[WARCOCK]

People deciding to be friends instead of involved is really different than what friendzone truly implies. If friendzone was as simple as getting rejected then it wouldn't be the big issue it is. People want to demonize the male in the situation by saying they have egotistical expectations of women (that they owe him something) and other men want to demoralize the male because a male not handling rejection well or getting rejected is seen as weakness in the male's constant hunter/pursuer role. Of course, friendzone is something both men and women can get trapped in and really, the issue of friendzone speaks about an abusive relationship. That's why it's a hot issue. It's not about a dichotomy of yes/no to the let's fuck question. It's about the dangerous gray area in between that allows one side to take advantage of the other.

I'm not sure the tone here(in this thread) is really indicative of "stop being a bitch and just fucking move on you pansy". I think there has been an ample amount of empathy and sympathy expressed with regards to the rejected lover. This most vile of personal ordeals that one has to go through when all their hopes have been pinned up to this one outcome. It's an awful thing, and i think the rejecter should engage with the rejectee as much as possible on the given subject in order to break off the infatuation with the most grace possible. But what is the alternative? The girl just does not love you. Disengagement is the only visible healthy outcome, at least to my eyes.

[Devolution]

"slut" and "friendzone". And I'm not talking about the grammatical difference. I could see "slut" ("she's bad because she wants to have sex") and "prude" ("she's bad because she doesn't want to have sex") but the term "friendzone" puts a lot more factors into her equation that distract from the point she apparently wants to make. Mind you, I'm not saying that females shouldn't complain about the term and all the male (and female) behaviour that leads to such a situation but "slut" is inherently more rooted in sexism and especially misogyny than "friendzone".

The two aren't equal, just opposite sides of the spectrum and part of the same problem asserted in the blog, women cannot choose for themselves without some sort of negative label associated to said choice. I don't know if I agree in every instance but it's definitely something I notice.

Most girls I know don't get called prudes, instead it's assumed they're "using" someone if the friend who is a guy, even if they're unaware of his intentions. Or better yet the idea that people can't simply do things for each other based on a mutual friendship if they're of the opposite sex. Even if people are attracted to each other, companionship as friends should be the reason anyone hangs around someone else. If one person doesn't feel the same and those expectations were the only thing keeping you tied to them that's neither fair to you nor that person, so why torture everyone? I think people handle rejection very poorly or would rather make themselves miserable seeing someone they desire with other people in the hopes of some random one off chance they wake up one day and say "yes you're the fucking one." It's just silly and it shouldn't even be something that happens and yet it does.

You can't stop these people from doing what they do but you can attack the rhetoric that acts like this is normal or acceptable behavior. Make friends to make friends.

[Bleepey]

No, you were of the opinion that "attractive" women never get rejected and could get laid if they want to. Which is frankly bullshit and already been pulled in this thread, so thanks.

Attractive women almost never get rejected attractive men can easily get rejected often. The Chris Evans of the world can go to clubs and fail more times the they succeed with near to no standards, the Precioises of the world will find someone.

[LetsGoKiting]

There's so much bitterness in this thread. Friend zone is basically putting a limit on your relationship with someone. I've friend zone attractive friends for reasons like, it wouldn't work out, it's too complicated, sex would be so awkward, you have way too much baggage to deal with. People get so butt hurt. A good friendship shouldn't be ruined because your horny. Just find a new target.

[saunderez]

If I had to guess you were young and there was booze involved?

Yes those factors were much to blame. Lust was definitely another factor. At the end of the day she wanted me around because I was good with her kid and she wanted a backup Dad since the kids actual father was 2000km away. I've definitely learned my lesson, and it hasn't happened to me since.

[etiolate]

I'm not sure the tone here(in this thread) is really indicative of "stop being a bitch and just fucking move on you pansy". I think there has been an ample amount of empathy and sympathy expressed with regards to the rejected lover. This most vile of personal ordeals that one has to go through when all their hopes have been pinned up to this one outcome. It's an awful thing, and i think the rejecter should engage with the rejectee as much as possible on the given subject in order to break off the infatuation with the most grace possible. But what is the alternative? The girl just does not love you. Disengagement is the only visible healthy outcome, at least to my eyes.

I didn't mean to imply it's something rampant in this thread, but that it is likely a possible private reaction that exists out there. Like it has been mentioned, it's often the male that other males look down upon in the assumed friendzone situation of the blogger's. Part of it is that they feel the person is keeping themselves in a bad situation, but I think part of it may be disappointment at the guy not doing their hunter role correctly. There is an unreasonable expectation of hetero males to eat up rejection without flinching and continue hunting. To not do this must upset some unspoken rule.

[Devolution]

Why would you guys see friendzoning as back up dick? It's either you're my friend or not, whatever you prefer. End of story.

Because they're projecting.

[mac]

Attractive women almost never get rejected attractive men can easily get rejected often. The Chris Evans of the world can go to clubs and fail more times the they succeed with near to no standards, the Precioises of the world will find someone.

?

preciouses Slang term created by Ehm for boobs, especially the boobs of those named Aly. Originated from the language of ahl.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=preciouses

[WARCOCK]

I didn't mean to imply it's something rampant in this thread, but that it is likely a possible private reaction that exists out there. Like it has been mentioned, it's often the male that other males look down upon in the assumed friendzone situation of the blogger's. Part of it is that they feel the person is keeping themselves in a bad situation, but I think part of it may be disappointment at the guy not doing their hunter role correctly. There is an unreasonable expectation of hetero males to eat up rejection without flinching and continue hunting. To not do this must upset some unspoken rule.

Oh right, no argument there. This is probably how most males process this topic imo, i am a pessimist though haha.

[odd_morsel]

The two aren't equal, just opposite sides of the spectrum and part of the same problem asserted in the blog, women cannot choose for themselves without some sort of negative label associated to said choice. I don't know if I agree in every instance but it's definitely something I notice. Most girls I know don't get called prudes, instead it's assumed they're "using" someone if the friend who is a guy, even if they're unaware of his intentions. Or better yet the idea that people can't simply do things for each other based on a mutual friendship if they're of the opposite sex. Even if people are attracted to each other, companionship as friends should be the reason anyone hangs around someone else. If one person doesn't feel the same and those expectations were the only thing keeping you tied to them that's neither fair to you nor that person, so why torture everyone? I think people handle rejection very poorly or would rather make themselves miserable seeing someone they desire with other people in the hopes of some random one off chance they wake up one day and say "yes you're the fucking one." It's just silly and it shouldn't even be something that happens and yet it does. You can't stop these people from doing what they do but you can attack the rhetoric that acts like this is normal or acceptable behavior. Make friends to make friends.

How about men who think of platonic friendships with women as options? We like to keep our options open, and the more options you have the better off you are. Even when you're in a relationship it's good to have options, and the absolute worst is when you lose an option you know you used to have. I know I've personally had female friends who I was attracted to in the past and was in contact with them and went out with them for drinks from time to time because in the event that my relationship went sour, I'd have done most of the legwork toward finding a new girlfriend (meeting, getting to know them, deciding whether or not I'm attracted to them or if they'd be a good girlfriend).

Do you think women are guilty of the same thing?

[Bleepey]

? http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=preciouses

Precious. From the movie precious

[Devolution]

Men sometimes think of platonic friendships with women as options. We like to keep our options open, and the more options you have the better off you are. Even when you're in a relationship it's good to have options, and the absolute worst is when you lose an option you know you used to have. I know I've personally had female friends who I was attracted to in the past and was in contact with them and went out with them for drinks from time to time because in the event that my relationship went sour, I'd have done most of the legwork toward finding a new girlfriend (meeting, getting to know them, deciding whether or not I'm attracted to them or if they'd be a good girlfriend). Do you think women are guilty of the same thing?

I think people are guilty of having friends that would also make good partners but not necessarily being interested in a relationship with them. I don't see why anyone would make friends with people they can't stand and you pretty much learn and grow with close friends, I think it's inevitable some feelings might arise.

[Napoleonthechimp]

Oh joy! Another reason why I should consider myself to be a disgusting male chauvinistic pig.

Friendzoning isn't about saying "no" because the woman in question doesn't even acknowledge the man's intentions.

[Aurean_Mentat]

I often wonder why, if its clear that the person of someone's affections doesn't return them, at least, not to the same degree that the originator does, and that if the originator can't process that in a healthy space, why its not all right to say 'I respect your decision', and then just move on, and away?

What I seem to take away from a lot of the posts about the topic is that somehow the above process is selfish. Looking at it objectively, as long as you did that, and acted like an adult. Didn't storm off, or call them names, or badmouth them to your/their friends. Just looked at it, realized that you couldn't be rational about it, and that the best thing for you to move on?

I mean, its totally reasonable to expect the person to be an adult about someone else being not interested in them. We're all adults here, and the fact that adult behavior and conduct is expected is totally reasonable. My only point is that it should go both ways.

I've never thought of friend zoning as someone simply saying they're not interested. Someone saying they're not interested is them being not interested. What I've always associated with friend zoning is stringing someone along, feeding them just enough bread crumbs that they will do most whatever you want them to (buy you things, do stuff for you, be a shoulder to cry on, etc). As I said, I've seen this happen over a number of years to a good friend of mine, and its the cruelest thing you could do to a person. He was basically her backup dick if all the other prospects dried out.

To be honest, the word 'friend zoning' seems to be one of those words that means different things for different people. I'm not entirely sure what the correct definition is, but the aforementioned is what it means to me.

[jorma]

The two aren't equal, just opposite sides of the spectrum and part of the same problem asserted in the blog, women cannot choose for themselves without some sort of negative label associated to said choice. I don't know if I agree in every instance but it's definitely something I notice.

But if you don't give a fuck about those labels, "their power" ceases to exist. And i'm not quoting you back to be an ass about it; it's because i fully agree with your earlier contention.

And i dont agree that this is a feminist issue either; it's not like men can make a choice about anything without having someone there to give you their opinion of you based off that choice. And the friendzoning thing goes both ways as well - some will accuse the woman of being a scheming asshole, some will hate on the man for being a fucking wuss.

[Glass Rebel]

The two aren't equal, just opposite sides of the spectrum and part of the same problem asserted in the blog, women cannot choose for themselves without some sort of negative label associated to said choice. I don't know if I agree in every instance but it's definitely something I notice. Most girls I know don't get called prudes, instead it's assumed they're "using" someone if the friend who is a guy, even if they're unaware of his intentions. Or better yet the idea that people can't simply do things for each other based on a mutual friendship if they're of the opposite sex. Even if people are attracted to each other, companionship as friends should be the reason anyone hangs around someone else. If one person doesn't feel the same and those expectations were the only thing keeping you tied to them that's neither fair to you nor that person, so why torture everyone? I think people handle rejection very poorly or would rather make themselves miserable seeing someone they desire with other people in the hopes of some random one off chance they wake up one day and say "yes you're the fucking one." It's just silly and it shouldn't even be something that happens and yet it does. You can't stop these people from doing what they do but you can attack the rhetoric that acts like this is normal or acceptable behavior. Make friends to make friends.

It's still a significant difference because she's implying in her blog post that in a friendzone situation it's always and only the man's fault.

Friendzone is a vastly more comlicated situation depending on the parties involved and I feel that this discussion oversimplifies a problem that isn't solely of sexist nature. While her feelings that arose from past experiences might be very honest the blog post screams "It's not my fault and it'll never be!" to me.

"slut" is pretty clear-cut; it's a term used by men out of frustration to describe women who have sex with "everybody else" but them and trying to rob them of their right to engage in sexual activity as they see fit. "friendzone" on the other hand is a very personal matter involving two people which isn't exclusively about sex. Otherwise you're implying that sex is the only difference between friendship and an intimate relationship.

I agree with your assertions btw. I just don't think that the comparison is apt and that it's detrimental to the discussion of the core issue.

[AdrianWerner]

There's so much bitterness in this thread. Friend zone is basically putting a limit on your relationship with someone. I've friend zone attractive friends for reasons like, it wouldn't work out, it's too complicated, sex would be so awkward, you have way too much baggage to deal with. People get so butt hurt. A good friendship shouldn't be ruined because your horny. Just find a new target.

Friendzone is when one of friends wants more and sticks with friendship despite knowing he won't get more.
if for example a guy looses interest in girl romantically and yet stays her friend it doesn't really count as friendzoned IMO, as that term has negative connotations.

[HiResDes]

Oh joy! Another reason why I should consider myself to be a disgusting male chauvinistic pig. Friendzoning isn't about saying "no" because the the woman in question doesn't even acknowledge the man's intentions.

[Devolution]

But if you don't give a fuck about those labels, "their power" ceases to exist. And i'm not quoting you back to be an ass about it; it's because i fully agree with your earlier contention. And i dont agree that this is a feminist issue either; it's not like men can make a choice about anything without having someone there to give you their opinion of you based off that choice. And the friendzoning thing goes both ways as well - some will accuse the woman of being a scheming asshole, some will hate on the man for being a fucking wuss.

This angers me too and it's actually the reason stuff like sexual assault happens in the first place.

[Uchip]

I'd argue that always viewing people as fuckable things is not a good way to go about shit, yeah.

would like to have sex with =/= sex object
its a compliment unless you somehow twist it into an insult
hell if a girl told me i was fuckable id be ok with that

[JokerOfSpades]

This angers me too and it's actually the reason stuff like sexual assault happens in the first place.

Makes sense, with the "most sexual assaults are committed by trusted people." Come to think of it, a frat friend was complaining about how this one dude he knew was just friends with a hot girl, and still a virgin. I don't think he intended any harm, but I see how it can be harmful...


Actually, not really - rapists are a bit more off-kilter/desperate than regular folk, I imagine.

[Devolution]

Makes sense, with the "most sexual assaults are committed by trusted people." Come to think of it, a frat friend was complaining about how this one dude he knew was just friends with a hot girl, and still a virgin. I don't think he intended any harm, but I see how it can be harmful... Actually, not really - rapists are a bit more off-kilter/desperate than regular folk, I imagine.

If the pressure is on men to take what they want, and some men give into said pressure, what is the outcome?

[jorma]

This angers me too and it's actually the reason stuff like sexual assault happens in the first place.

I think the idea that the choices made by one individual reflects back on their entire gender as a whole is laughable and at the core fascist. This is something i think we all have been guilty off, and sometimes i think we all need to fight the urge to call someone out because we think they've let our entire gender/race/whatever down with their actions. It's just wrong :X

[Kong Fisso]

good old gaf discussing back and forth for 100+ posts before remembering that, oh, we forgot to reach a common definition of the term. Reading the thread I'm still not sure if you're even talking about the same thing

edit: Oh, we're at rape now. Didn't see that coming.

[Napoleonthechimp]

This angers me too and it's actually the reason stuff like sexual assault happens in the first place.

I think sexual assault happens because of the repression of human sexuality. It something innate to all human beings and when suppressed it has a tendency to be expressed in violent and dangerous ways.

Due to the fundamental difference in the biochemical make up of each gender - in particular I'm referring to the levels of testosterone - I don't view men and woman as being completely equal. It doesn't mean one is better than the other, it just means each gender decides (not thinks) differently. To ignore these fundamental differences is to remain ignorant and invite conflict.

It seems that, a lot of the time, men get punished for not thinking like a woman... or at very least the socially conditioned idea of a woman that seems to exist.