[MutFox]

However, I'm honestly not sure of where this debate is really going.

I not sure either now.
At first I thought it was just complimenting assets,
but then I thought it was compliments altogether.

[Plywood]

Amazing logic. And you used the term "stare", which would still count as an asshole thing to do.

Bad choice on my part but I went on to say: "OR what, do they have them on display for a specific person and no wandering eyes may gaze?"

It's not like I'm going to set up camp and make a day out of it for fucks sake.

[frequency]

I'm just curious for the females in this thread: if a normal-looking female stranger standing next to you and said "Oh my God, you have the nicest breasts" or "Your ass is amazing. Do you work out?" would you be offended? If these things were said by a flamboyant gay guy, would you be offended? In the two preceding situations would you be as offended as if a presumably straight guy said them to you? Why or why not?

I would be offended and really uncomfortable. My reaction would be to move as far away from that person in as fast a time as I could.

I'm just not comfortable with these situations and it was completely avoidable if the other person just showed some restraint and didn't talk.

I would be even more uncomfortable if it was a man. Mostly because I'm pretty sure that man is saying it for different reasons than the woman.

[GamerSoul]

There is a difference between "enjoying" the sight of them due to your hormones, and making the active choice of being a misogynistic, threatening asshole.

I wouldn't go as far as misogynistic asshole, but I think your right about "enjoying" the sight from a distant. Most of the time it's better to keep your thoughts to yourself if the situation is not in your favor. It's just how society is. Keep that iceberg submerged, peeps.

[Devolution]

Of course I'm angry, I can't even begin to explain the implied sexual threat in some words. You can speak to some greater objectivity all you want and ignore the sexualization and harassment of women in our culture. When saying something like "nice tits" you're confining us to a space whether you mean to do so or not. Depending on the circumstances do I smile and nod or reject the compliment and escalate the situation? If you want to be able to compliment women without the greater implications of what those statements mean you have to first change the society in which we are sexual victims and sexually objectified, victim blamed and assumed to be wearing clothing for your eyes only. To ignore the sexual politics behind what you say angers me and for every woman who does genuinely enjoy it so you can continue to rationalize your behavior, there are those of us whom it legitimately bothers or even scares. But fuck them right? And I'm sexist for trying to shine a light on why they or I would have issues hearing "nice tits" or "nice ass" from anyone.

[Gr1mLock]

Bad choice on my part but I went on to say: "OR what, do they have them on display for a specific person and no wandering eyes may gaze?" It's not like I'm going to set up camp and make a day out of it for fucks sake.

What i cant follow chicks around wearing a bib while holding a tray of cookies anymore? This is bullshit!

[whitehawk]

One thing I will add to this thread; If you are wearing a t-shirt with text on your text, I shall read that text. I might even take my time.

[MutFox]

I would be offended and really uncomfortable. My reaction would be to move as far away from that person in as fast a time as I could. I'm just not comfortable with these situations and it was completely avoidable if the other person just showed some restraint and didn't talk. I would be even more uncomfortable if it was a man. Mostly because I'm pretty sure that man is saying it for different reasons than the woman.

I'll flip it from a guys perspective,
Yes awkward.

I don't think there is anyway of complimenting breasts or buttocks,
without coming off as sleazy if it's directed towards a stranger.

Unless both are really drunk.

[Hot Coldman]

One thing I will add to this thread; If you are wearing a t-shirt with text on your text, I shall read that text. I might even take my time.

Off-topic: I saw a guy yesterday wearing a white T-shirt, with text that said "This is a white T-shirt." printed on it.

Never before have I wanted to end someone so badly.

[Socreges]

Opiate + 5 Devolution -2

Pretty much. Lessons in how not to conduct an argument.

[IceCold]

This thread made me think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPvjmhrfxak&t=0m30s

[The Anti-Monitor]

I dunno, I comment on how my friends' tits look all the time, but I don't do it in a creepy way.

I simply think that 99% of the time it is creepy. I guess due to the importance of breasts in a sexual manner, anything that comments about them is seen that way, which coming from a random stranger is very creepy, whereas compliments about anything else are from an aesthetic point of view, which is nice to hear. That's why you can compliment friends about it.

I assume if you tell a stranger her legs look so good you want to lick them it'd be pretty damn taboo as well..

[Jake Tower]

Just use StarCraft lingo.

"I see you have a nice two racks opening there."

[zoukka]

I assume if you tell a stranger her legs look so good you want to lick them it'd be pretty damn taboo as well..

You should try and find out!

[The Anti-Monitor]

You should try and find out!

Does it count if I have been told?

[shintoki]

Does it count if I have been told?

Should have told them to come up with something better.

[Fenderputty]

Of course I'm angry, I can't even begin to explain the implied sexual threat in some words. You can speak to some greater objectivity all you want and ignore the sexualization and harassment of women in our culture. When saying something like "nice tits" you're confining us to a space whether you mean to do so or not. Depending on the circumstances do I smile and nod or reject the compliment and escalate the situation? If you want to be able to compliment women without the greater implications of what those statements mean you have to first change the society in which we are sexual victims and sexually objectified, victim blamed and assumed to be wearing clothing for your eyes only. To ignore the sexual politics behind what you say angers me and for every woman who does genuinely enjoy it so you can continue to rationalize your behavior, there are those of us whom it legitimately bothers or even scares. But fuck them right? And I'm sexist for trying to shine a light on why they or I would have issues hearing "nice tits" or "nice ass" from anyone.

I believe Opiate cleary stated and was even quoted stating that direct comments like this deserve a slap to the face.

[Jake Tower]

Has this been posted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbsmbCWUNEE

[Calcaneus]

One thing I will add to this thread; If you are wearing a t-shirt with text on your text, I shall read that text. I might even take my time.

This is a bit related, but it is interesting walking in the city and seeing how blatant some guys are with staring at attractive women. Some guys straight up stop in their tracks, turn around, and let out a silent "damn".

[zoukka]

This is a bit related, but it is interesting walking in the city and seeing how blatant some guys are with staring at attractive women. Some guys straight up stop in their tracks, turn around, and let out a silent "damn".

Individualism.

[Opiate]

Of course I'm angry, I can't even begin to explain the implied sexual threat in some words.

I'm not likely to respond well -- or at all -- to arguments made in this fashion. You are explicitly admitting to overt hostility that you "cannot put in words." I strongly recommend you remain calm and objective, as I have tried to do; I do not (And I believe most people do not) respond well to arguments based substantially on their brute vitriol as a means of validation.

I dunno, I comment on how my friends' tits look all the time, but I don't do it in a creepy way. I simply think that 99% of the time it is creepy.

Are you gay or bisexual? Because it's easier to express this sort of thing when there are no implicit sexual undertones. Regardless, I agree; context matters enormously, and most of the time, something as overt as "you have nice breasts" will be taken as an explicit sexual advance.

[Valnen]

I dunno, I comment on how my friends' tits look all the time, but I don't do it in a creepy way.

I find it interesting that people keep saying this when it's already been pointed out there's a difference between hearing it from someone you know and are comfortable with and hearing it from a stranger.

[Igo]

I wouldn't take a friendly gesture back as necessarily enjoying the attention since when we scorn such compliments bad stuff happens.

This may be true but i'm pretty confident in my ability to spot a genuine reaction from a fake one.

Honestly, I think complimenting a stranger on their psysical assets directly is definitely crude way of going about it. Also, Someone mentioned it earlier but I think complimenting the clothing only manages to be slightly less creepy. You're just going about it in a round-about manner, only now you're more likely to make her self-concious about her clothing choice.

I do feel like there exists a way to compliment a stranger on her features without offending her, though. It all comes down to the situation and how you go about it.

[The Anti-Monitor]

Are you gay or bisexual? Because it's easier to express this sort of thing when there are no implicit sexual undertones. Regardless, I agree; context matters enormously, and most of the time, something as overt as "you have nice breasts" will be taken as an explicit sexual advance.

I am bisexual.

I find it interesting that people keep saying this when it's already been pointed out there's a difference between hearing it from someone you know and are comfortable with and hearing it from a stranger.

I simply think it's beause it's the entire reason it's taboo. From a stranger, it's a sexual thing. From someone you know, it's an aesthetic thing. And almost anything sexual that has to do with a stranger is seen as taboo.

I was just trying to explain why, even if you do it from a purely aesthetic point of view, it's reasonable for the stranger to assume otherwise. Whereas it's something you can easily do with people you trust because of that reason. So, it's taboo because, for most people, anything regarding breasts is inherently sexual.

[Angry Grimace]

I do feel there is interesting discussion here, actually. Specifically, we should consider that it is perfectly acceptable to compliment women on many other features. For example, I can and have complimented women on their hair, eyes, smile, and outfit with absolutely no prompting whatsoever, even if I am simply passing them by, and I've gotten unamimously positive responses. But I'm sure I wouldn't get such a positive response if I complimented her breasts. Or her buttocks. So is it just that these bodyparts are considered overtly sexual? Perhaps, but I also think I'd get odd responses if I complimented a woman on her elbows, or feet, or shoulders. What parameters decide how socially appropriate the compliment is? It isn't as simple as sexuality or cultural customs, I feel.

You're asking this from perspective of a Space Alien rather than in context of our society. It's fairly intuitive in context to realize that some things are off-limits. Sure, biologically speaking, it's an irrelevant distinction, but those things are just considered to be "off-limits" because of the way we interact with each other as a society. We've all agreed that we don't walk around with exposed boobs, ass and genitals, so as a corollary, we don't really talk about them like that. Why is it that way? Because we've grown up with religion and most religions (opinion incoming) mostly revolve around taking base level instincts you like (sex) and saying they aren't okay.

[leadbelly]

I was just trying to explain why, even if you do it from a purely aesthetic point of view, it's reasonable for the stranger to assume otherwise. Whereas it's something you can easily do with people you trust because of that reason. So, it's taboo because, for most people, anything regarding breasts is inherently sexual.

Yeah. There are so many different scenarios though, but it's not worth talking about now.

[mr2xxx]

This reminds me of the time some cute girl grabbed my ass in high school. Can't lie I enjoyed it, the same as if a woman said nice ass, do you work out? As a man it's easy to take that position because we don't have to deal with the same shit women do so I understand that they might not like it do to the culture we live. It's like race in America, we want to say we are all equal but that's far from the truth.

[Femmeworth]

Ignoring the sexual aspect of complimenting a woman on her breasts, it's rather shallow when you think about it. Unless you have seen the woman topless or she is, you really don't know what her breasts look like. You are merely complementing the presentation of her breasts.

[Opiate]

You're asking this from perspective of a Space Alien rather than in context of our society. It's fairly intuitive in context to realize that some things are off-limits. Sure, biologically speaking, it's an irrelevant distinction, but those things are just considered to be "off-limits" because of the way we interact with each other as a society. We've all agreed that we don't walk around with exposed boobs, ass and genitals, so as a corollary, we don't really talk about them like that. Why is it that way? Because we've grown up with religion and most religions (opinion incoming) mostly revolve around taking base level instincts you like (sex) and saying they aren't okay.

Taking the view of a "space alien" is actually a much better way to approach most discussions, because much of our understanding of phenomena is, essentially, "that's the way our society works." That isn't very useful, and is just one step up from answering the question "why are things this way?" with "because."

Frequency's explanation, as already stated, has much more explanatory power and synthesizes several seemingly disparate parts. For example, using your hypothesis, how would you explain why it's inappropriate to compliment someone's elbows? Those aren't typically sexualized and aren't mentioned with any significance in Biblical texts that I'm aware of. Or, what about someone's smile? You can usually compliment someone's smile, but mouths can most certainly be sexual. Why is that? As Frequency stated, the implicit inference -- or perceived meaning, from the listener's perspective -- is what is relevant. You can say "you look nice" in a very pleasant way that makes someone feel good, but also say it with a different, "saucy" tone that makes it clear that you think the person is very sexy and, perhaps, that you'd want to sleep with them. That definitely makes sense to me.

[ConradCervantes]

I find Chinner's regurgitation of Max Payne 2 voiceovers to be the most entertaining aspect of this topic.

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

I not sure either now. At first I thought it was just complimenting assets, but then I thought it was compliments altogether.

It's frustrating, isn't it?

[Fenderputty]

Taking the view of a "space alien" is actually a much better way to approach most discussions, because much of our understanding of phenomena is, essentially, "that's the way our society works." That isn't very useful, and is just one step up from answering the question "why are things this way?" with "because." Frequency's explanation, as already stated, has much more explanatory power and synthesizes several seemingly disparate parts. For example, using your hypothesis, how would you explain why it's inappropriate to compliment someone's elbows? Those aren't typically sexualized and aren't mentioned with any significance in Biblical texts that I'm aware of. Or, what about someone's smile? You can usually compliment someone's smile, but mouths can most certainly be sexual. Why is that? As Frequency stated, the implicit inference -- or perceived meaning, from the listener's perspective -- is what is relevant. You can say "you look nice" in a very pleasant way that makes someone feel good, but also say it with a different, "saucy" tone that makes it clear that you think the person is very sexy and, perhaps, that you'd want to sleep with them. That definitely makes sense to me.

You've got a purdy mouth!

[GTP_Daverytimes]

The same reason it's taboo for a woman to compliment me on my bulge?

That actually happened to me twice at the pool in my complex, although it was a compliment i was a bit embarrassed. I guess that might be the reason it's frowned upon to compliment ladies concerning their breasts.

[Green Mamba]

As Frequency stated, the implicit inference -- or perceived meaning, from the listener's perspective -- is what is relevant. You can say "you look nice" in a very pleasant way that makes someone feel good, but also say it with a different, "saucy" tone that makes it clear that you think the person is very sexy and, perhaps, that you'd want to sleep with them. That definitely makes sense to me.

Basically.

[MutFox]

You've got a purdy mouth!

Yep, context...

[SouthernDragon]

Of course I'm angry, I can't even begin to explain the implied sexual threat in some words. You can speak to some greater objectivity all you want and ignore the sexualization and harassment of women in our culture. When saying something like "nice tits" you're confining us to a space whether you mean to do so or not. Depending on the circumstances do I smile and nod or reject the compliment and escalate the situation? If you want to be able to compliment women without the greater implications of what those statements mean you have to first change the society in which we are sexual victims and sexually objectified, victim blamed and assumed to be wearing clothing for your eyes only. To ignore the sexual politics behind what you say angers me and for every woman who does genuinely enjoy it so you can continue to rationalize your behavior, there are those of us whom it legitimately bothers or even scares. But fuck them right? And I'm sexist for trying to shine a light on why they or I would have issues hearing "nice tits" or "nice ass" from anyone.

You and Opiate are having different conversations.

He's talking about compliments in general and when they are appropriate. You are talking about guys going "nice tits" to random women.

Personally, women seem to really appreciate my compliments, but I am very aware of what is the appropriate compliment for the appropriate context.

[disappeared]

dave chappelle did it without missing a beat.

That sketch was flawless. Put on an outfit and get a camera, and suddenly it's okay!

[Devolution]

You and Opiate are having different conversations. He's talking about compliments in general and when they are appropriate. You are talking about guys going "nice tits" to random women. Personally, women seem to really appreciate my compliments, but I am very aware of what is the appropriate compliment for the appropriate context.

Or he's putting the cart before the horse.

[Fenderputty]

Yep, context...

I say that in a sleezy tone to my wife often. It's makes me laugh.

[Steve Youngblood]

Frequency's explanation, as already stated, has much more explanatory power and synthesizes several seemingly disparate parts. For example, using your hypothesis, how would you explain why it's inappropriate to compliment someone's elbows? Those aren't typically sexualized and aren't mentioned with any significance in Biblical texts that I'm aware of. Or, what about someone's smile? You can usually compliment someone's smile, but mouths can most certainly be sexual. Why is that? As Frequency stated, the implicit inference -- or perceived meaning, from the listener's perspective -- is what is relevant. You can say "you look nice" in a very pleasant way that makes someone feel good, but also say it with a different, "saucy" tone that makes it clear that you think the person is very sexy and, perhaps, that you'd want to sleep with them. That definitely makes sense to me.

But, given the clarification of intent informing appropriateness, do you think there's a scenario where complementing breasts would be regarded as anything but sexual. Because, without attempting to arrive at that hypothetical situation, this entire back and forth just seems like a non-sequitur to make the discussion more interesting than it really is.

[KO Traveling Hobo]

But, given the clarification of intent informing appropriateness, do you think there's a scenario where complementing breasts would be regarded as anything but sexual. Because, without attempting to arrive at that hypothetical situation, this entire back and forth just seems like a non-sequitur to make the discussion more interesting than it really is.

Multiple gaffers have attested to successfully complimenting a woman's boobs or seeing other men do it. Do those not count?

[Opiate]

But, given the clarification of intent informing appropriateness, do you think there's a scenario where complementing breasts would be regarded as anything but sexual.

Yes, and I already gave one real world example. The Anti-Monitor also gave one. I also admit these situations are rare.

Additionally, I would like to point out that this discussions is more broad than simply this single example, and certainly more broad than the caricature of the example, "nice tits."

Because, without attempting to arrive at that hypothetical situation, this entire back and forth just seems like a non-sequitur to make the discussion more interesting than it really is.

As stated in my original post in this thread, it becomes a much more interesting discussion when you discuss compliments more generally. But yes, there are cases where you can casually compliment a woman on her breasts without implicit sexual undertones. Alternatively, there are also cases where you can compliment women on their breasts with the undertones, and it's okay because she is clearly receptive to them. If you're at a singles bar, perhaps, or a swinger's club, for example. Or if she's your girlfriend.

[Angry Grimace]

Taking the view of a "space alien" is actually a much better way to approach most discussions, because much of our understanding of phenomena is, essentially, "that's the way our society works." That isn't very useful, and is just one step up from answering the question "why are things this way?" with "because." Frequency's explanation, as already stated, has much more explanatory power and synthesizes several seemingly disparate parts. For example, using your hypothesis, how would you explain why it's inappropriate to compliment someone's elbows? Those aren't typically sexualized and aren't mentioned with any significance in Biblical texts that I'm aware of. Or, what about someone's smile? You can usually compliment someone's smile, but mouths can most certainly be sexual. Why is that? As Frequency stated, the implicit inference -- or perceived meaning, from the listener's perspective -- is what is relevant. You can say "you look nice" in a very pleasant way that makes someone feel good, but also say it with a different, "saucy" tone that makes it clear that you think the person is very sexy and, perhaps, that you'd want to sleep with them. That definitely makes sense to me.

It's only a social faux pas to compliment someone's elbows because it's pretty difficult to even come up with a working idea of what an "sexy elbow" even looks like. I wouldn't say it's inappropriate beyond its inherent strangeness.

In our society, talking about breasts is pretty much a sex-topic since we don't talk about it and when we do, it's usually in a sexy manner.

[leadbelly]

But, given the clarification of intent informing appropriateness, do you think there's a scenario where complementing breasts would be regarded as anything but sexual. Because, without attempting to arrive at that hypothetical situation, this entire back and forth just seems like a non-sequitur to make the discussion more interesting than it really is.

I can, and I think the woman probably wouldn't be offended. It is in the context I originally spoke about.



I could make a comment like, "You look great in that dress. You have the right kind of breasts to make it work"

Totally inoffensive. I'm sure there are women out there who would take that as a compliment rather than a come on.

[Steve Youngblood]

Multiple gaffers have attested to successfully complimenting a woman's boobs or seeing other men do it. Do those not count?

But are these examples really in line with the spirit of the thread? I thought we were trying to figure out whether or not it should be considered a compliment to the same degree as something like "I really like your hair."

And the differentiation between the two seems pretty clear. Most of the examples I've seen of complimenting breasts were in reference to friends, which doesn't really seem in the spirit of the discussion of what is and isn't taboo. Lots of things aren't taboo given an appropriate degree of comfortability.

[bengraven]

I do think there's a huge different someone walking by and saying "god DAMN girl, you gotta nice ass" and someone walking up and politely saying, "Hello, hey, you have a really nice body".

[Steve Youngblood]

Alternatively, there are also cases where you can compliment women on their breasts with the undertones, and it's okay because she is clearly receptive to them. If you're at a singles bar, perhaps, or a swinger's club, for example. Or if she's your girlfriend.

These examples seem irrelevant. Given the right rapport, I'm sure I could find a receptive pair of ears for wildly deviant sexual acts, but that doesn't help us in the least when we're trying to ascertain was is generally acceptable discourse.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but when you start mentioning fringe examples like someone you might meet at a swinger's club, it's hard for me to understand what merit there is to a larger, more general discussion.

[SouthernDragon]

These examples seem irrelevant. Given the right rapport, I'm sure I could find a receptive pair of ears for wildly deviant sexual acts, but that doesn't help us in the least when we're trying to ascertain was is generally acceptable discourse. Honestly, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but when you start mentioning fringe examples like someone you might meet at a swinger's club, it's hard for me to understand what merit there is to a larger, more general discussion.

That context matters?

[ReturnOfTheRAT]

I do think there's a huge different someone walking by and saying "god DAMN girl, you gotta nice ass" and someone walking up and politely saying, "Hello, hey, you have a really nice body".

Remove the exaggeration. Does, "You're ass/butt/backside/bottom looks great in those pants," work in the same situation? If not, then we have to continue to beat around the bush and compliment a "figure" instead of a specific body part.

[Steve Youngblood]

That context matters?

Huh? That really needs clarification? There's some doubt out there as to whether or not my wife would take offense to me saying that I find her breasts sexually arousing in contrast to how a random woman on the street would react?