[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1074925

During an early morning break-in at his Western Pennsylvania home on Tuesday, an 84-year-old Korean War veteran blasted a burglar in the neck with a German Luger he had carried in battle, police said. In a scene that appeared to be pulled from the pages of the Clint Eastwood film "Gran Torino," grizzled war hero Fred Ricciutti grabbed his battlefield sidearm after he heard someone bust through a kitchen door of his Elizabeth Township house at around 4:30 a.m. "I said, 'Halt, who's there?' " Ricciutti told Pittsburgh station WPXI. "I'm thinking, friend or foe, he shouldn't be there that time of day." Ricciutti fired once, hitting suspect Raymond Hiles, 25, in the neck. Hills took off, but was arrested a few blocks away after Ricciutti called 911. Cops said the wounded would-be robber had a screwdriver and a stun gun on him, the station reported. He was charged with criminal trespass and burglary and was being held on $10,000 bond. Ricciutti said the man used to live across the street from his house, which he shares with is ailing wife. When asked if he thought Hiles messed with the wrong guy, Ricciutti told WPXI, "I think he probably found that out." Cops said they don't plan on charging Ricciutti.

Don't mess with elderly in PA!

[Curtisaur]

Good story.

Guns save lives.

[Dresden]

The robber would be dead if the old soldier had a knife.

[methane47]

Good story. Guns save lives.

....

[Guzim]

Ricciutti said the man used to live across the street from his house, which he shares with is ailing wife.

The burglar definitely thought he could just break into the house and not worry about the veteran.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

....

They did here

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

How did he get a Luger in Korea? That pistol must have made one hell of a trip.

[antonz]

At their age and with health conditions its likely that stun gun could have killed either one of them.

Those old War Vets can be some of the toughest SOBs out there. Fortunately for him he still had his sidearm for protection

[Dubbedinenglish]

[methane47]

They did here

Screw driver + Stungun does not mean that it was the robber's intention to kill the people

On the other hand.

Guns hurt people.

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...ischarge-injur

Wednesday, May 9, 2012 BARNSDALL, Okla. -- An accidental discharge from a Barns-dall police officer's AR-15 assault rifle sent a bullet into the leg of an Osage County deputy sheriff and wounded another Barnsdall officer on Monday evening. ... Another Barnsdall officer, Daniel Brown, suffered a flesh wound in the neck, but it is unclear whether that came from the second bullet, shrapnel or concrete blown from the street, Cartwright said.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

How did he get a Luger in Korea? That pistol must have made one hell of a trip.

I wanna guess WWII war prize. I mean a ton of surplus ones are available to buy and the reporter may have made a mistake and the guy just bought it, but still if he did have that in Korea, one hell of a trip indeed.

[WanderingWind]

I wanna guess WWII war prize. I mean a ton of surplus ones are available to buy and the reporter may have made a mistake and the guy just bought it, but still if he did have that in Korea, one hell of a trip indeed.

A ton of gear from WWII was reapppropriated for the Korean War. Likely what happened there.

[ClovingWestbrook]

....

Really? Come on. I'm not a lover of guns but guns many times DO save people. Not all of us are able to talk down psychotic individuals from trying to kill us.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Screw driver + Stungun does not mean that it was the robber's intention to kill the people On the other hand. Guns hurt people. http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...ischarge-injur

So that invalidates this mans defense of himself and his wife by an armed criminal?

Also when a man breaks into your house with a stun gun and screwdriver I don't think he's collecting for the Red Cross.

A ton of gear from WWII was reapppropriated for the Korean War. Likely what happened there.

Crazy, never knew opposing side weapons did.

[LiK]

badass

[Valhelm]

They did here

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

[ClovingWestbrook]

So that invalidates this mans defense of himself and his wife by an armed criminal? Also when a man breaks into your house with a stun gun and screwdriver I don't think he's collecting for the Red Cross. Crazy, never knew opposing side weapons did.

Unfortunately there are some who feel that if there is an intruder in your home you still don't have the right to do whatever it takes to stop that person. I'm sorry and this is just me, but if someone invades my home and I have a weapon, I'm shooting first. I am not going to wait to see what he/she/they do and put my wife and daughters life at stake.

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

Wrong. It shows he intended to use a stun gun. Nobody knows what he was going to do if these individuals put up a fight.

[Deified Data]

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

With all due respect, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[Avixph]

Screw driver + Stungun does not mean that it was the robber's intention to kill the people

Stab with screwdriver and then electrocute the screwdriver, duh.

[catfish]

They did here

How? The guy had a stun gun indicating his intent was not to murder
Edit: waaaay to slow on this response

[Guerrillas in the Mist]

I wanna guess WWII war prize. I mean a ton of surplus ones are available to buy and the reporter may have made a mistake and the guy just bought it, but still if he did have that in Korea, one hell of a trip indeed.

I guess another thing to consider is that the Chinese in particular didn't have many standardised weapons, and used a huge variety of firearms, both imported as well as locally built copies. So he could have picked it up on the battlefield or found it on some unfortunate soul.

Not a big gun person, but I'd love to see one of those Chinese-made Mauser pistols used during the Sino-Japanese War and the Civil War.

[LiK]

Unfortunately there are some who feel that if there is an intruder in your home you still don't have the right to do whatever it takes to stop that person. I'm sorry and this is just me, but if someone invades my home and I have a weapon, I'm shooting first. I am not going to wait to see what he/she/they do and put my wife and daughters life at stake.

indeed, i would totally shoot their ass. you dunno who they are and they broke in.

[ClovingWestbrook]

How? The guy had a stun gun indicating his intent was not to murder Edit: waaaay to slow on this response

No. Not true.

[Deified Data]

How? The guy had a stun gun indicating his intent was not to murder

Sheesh, if only the old man had your omniscient perspective.

[LiK]

How? The guy had a stun gun indicating his intent was not to murder Edit: waaaay to slow on this response

so you would check every intruder who breaks into your place for weapons before taking action, right?

[ClovingWestbrook]

Sheesh, if only the old man had your omniscient perspective.

And this too.

[The_Inquisitor]

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

Really?

[GungHo]

Screw driver + Stungun does not mean that it was the robber's intention to kill the people

You're right. That old fucker should have interviewed him first, "hey, whippersnapper... you brought a screw driver and a stun gun, you you mean to kill me or meerly wound me? I need to know this so that some guy on the internet doesn't get the wrong idea about self-defence."

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Unfortunately there are some who feel that if there is an intruder in your home you still don't have the right to do whatever it takes to stop that person. I'm sorry and this is just me, but if someone invades my home and I have a weapon, I'm shooting first. I am not going to wait to see what he/she/they do and put my wife and daughters life at stake.

In PA you're explicitly allowed too. PA has Castle Doctrine so no way this guy would ever have to worry about a prosecutor who thinks you should do nothing.

[EnderWiggles]

TIL: Guns don't kill people, stunguns do

[Deified Data]

so you would check every intruder who breaks into your place for weapons before taking action, right?

"Pardon me kind burglar, but are you carrying any potentially lethal weapons on your person?"

"No, sir. Nothing more than a stun gun and a screwdriver."

"Excellent! Please proceed to rob me while I do nothing."

[Dark Knyght]

Should not have crossed the lawn to get to the kitchen.

[Log4Girlz]

How? The guy had a stun gun indicating his intent was not to murder Edit: waaaay to slow on this response

The old man should have had the fellow fill out a questionaire.

[Funky Papa]

How? The guy had a stun gun indicating his intent was not to murder Edit: waaaay to slow on this response

He also carried a screwdriver.

Still, this case shouldn't be used as an example for anything else but irresponsability given what little we know.

"I'm thinking, friend or foe, he shouldn't be there that time of day."

Unless the reporter is omitting the identification of the burglar as a menace, this is a *terrible* way to proceed. There are countless cases of neighbours and relatives getting shot after entering someone's house by accident or without prior communication.

[Poindexter]

Crazy, never knew opposing side weapons did.

I have a Chinese SKS that my dad liberated from an NVA soldier in 1970.

[alphaNoid]

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

Who cares? Break into someones home and prepare to get wasted.

[Utako]

If the burglar had a gun, Mr. Vet would be fucked.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I have a Chinese SKS that my dad liberated from an NVA soldier in 1970.

I meant US forces being equipped with them.

Neat about the SKS bringback though.

[squidyj]

so you would check every intruder who breaks into your place for weapons before taking action, right?

Nope, just saying the assertion that lives were saved seems questionable at best.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Nope, just saying the assertion that lives were saved seems questionable at best.

Its hardly questionable at best. The man was armed with two weapons. He even knew the people (or was aware) of who lived there and the wife is in poor health, and still came armed.

[methane47]

So that invalidates this mans defense of himself and his wife by an armed criminal? Also when a man breaks into your house with a stun gun and screwdriver I don't think he's collecting for the Red Cross. Crazy, never knew opposing side weapons did.

Not at all

But people shouldn't be praising the gun. They should be praising the man.
In your story, a MAN used a gun to defend his house. It was a tool.

In the story I posted, Then GUN apparently went off by itself, in the possession of a Trained officer. And it managed to hurt 2 people.

So while the korean guy in the story is awesome.. and GOOD job for him defending his house. I just want to warn people that think that the house defense is some inherent property of the gun. (Which it is not)

You're right. That old fucker should have interviewed him first, "hey, whippersnapper... you brought a screw driver and a stun gun, you you mean to kill me or meerly wound me? I need to know this so that some guy on the internet doesn't get the wrong idea about self-defence."

Hmm you're right.. Shoot first ask questions later. Thats the ticket!!

[Deified Data]

Not at all But people shouldn't be praising the gun. They should be praising the man. In your story, a MAN used a gun to defend his house. It was a tool. In the story I posted, Then GUN apparently went off by itself, in the possession of a Trained officer. And it managed to hurt 2 people. So while the korean guy in the story is awesome.. and GOOD job for him defending his house. I just want to warn people that think that the house defense is some inherent property of the gun. (Which it is not)

When guns save lives, we must PRAISE THE MAN.

When guns take lives, we must BLAME THE GUN.

That NeoGAF dissonance...

[WanderingWind]

Nope, just saying the assertion that lives were saved seems questionable at best.

You know those people who say that everybody should carry a gun, thereby eliminating crime?

You're doing the exact opposite.

Sometimes, a weapon can be used for legitimate purposes. This is very clearly one of them.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Not at all But people shouldn't be praising the gun. They should be praising the man. In your story, a MAN used a gun to defend his house. It was a tool. In the story I posted, Then GUN apparently went off by itself, in the possession of a Trained officer. And it managed to hurt 2 people. So while the korean guy in the story is awesome.. and GOOD job for him defending his house. I just want to warn people that think that the house defense is some inherent property of the gun. (Which it is not)

First the guy isn't Korean and second, the gun didn't accidentally go off, rarely is it an accident, and even rarer does a gun randomly go off. It was an ND.

People are praising both the man and the ability to be able to defend oneself.

[shinobi602]

Screw driver + Stungun does not mean that it was the robber's intention to kill the people On the other hand. Guns hurt people.

............

................

wow

[ClovingWestbrook]

Not at all But people shouldn't be praising the gun. They should be praising the man. In your story, a MAN used a gun to defend his house. It was a tool. In the story I posted, Then GUN apparently went off by itself, in the possession of a Trained officer. And it managed to hurt 2 people. So while the korean guy in the story is awesome.. and GOOD job for him defending his house. I just want to warn people that think that the house defense is some inherent property of the gun. (Which it is not) Hmm you're right.. Shoot first ask questions later. Thats the ticket!!

The man invaded his home and was a threat to he and his wife. What do you expect him to do?

[R2D4]

The man invaded his home and was a threat to he and his wife. What do you expect him to do?

Get robbed and beaten and watch the guy run away free. Duh.

[methane47]

First the guy isn't Korean and second, the gun didn't accidentally go off, rarely is it an accident, and even rarer does a gun randomly go off. It was an ND. People are praising both the man and the ability to be able to defend oneself.

My original quote was from some guy who said "Guns saves Lives"

He didn't praise the man or his ability to defend himself.

And In the Story i linked to, the gun DID go off accidentally.

When guns save lives, we must PRAISE THE MAN. When guns take lives, we must BLAME THE GUN. That NeoGAF dissonance...

Not at all. I'm suggesting that Guns are dangerous. And do not protect people by some inherent virtue.

The man invaded his home and was a threat to he and his wife. What do you expect him to do?

So the post you quoted has me saying "people shouldn't be praising the gun. They should be praising the man."
What do you gather from that statement? That I think its not ok for the guy to defend himself?

[Deified Data]

Not at all. I'm suggesting that Guns are dangerous. And do not protect people by some inherent virtue.

No one argues that. No one has ever argued that. Find your most ardent gun nut and even he'll tell you that a gun in the hand of a violent criminal is a bad thing - hell, that's probably why he carries in the first place.

It's never the gun, but the man behind the gun. You can argue that the world would be better without them and you'd probably be right. But that's not the case. They're tools to be used how their owners see fit. They're neither inherently good or bad. So long as the chance of guns harming people exists, so too will the chance of guns protecting the innocent. Weighing in 100% on one side or the other is idiotic.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

My original quote was from some guy who said "Guns saves Lives" He didn't praise the man or his ability to defend himself. And In the Story i linked to, the gun DID go off accidentally.

It did not magically go off, it was a negligent discharge. When Glocks first got adopted by the NYPD, cops used to get Glock leg all the time. Dc cops too.