[methane47]

It did not magically go off, it was a negligent discharge. When Glocks first got adopted by the NYPD, cops used to get Glock leg all the time. Dc cops too.

Sure I can agree with that.

[Stahsky]

These sorts of threads bring out the most moronic debates on GAF

[Deified Data]

These sorts of threads bring out the most moronic debates on GAF

The absolute best part is that the extreme wings of both sides, pro and anti, are equally paranoid of the same thing - gun-toting loonies.

[R2D4]

M So the post you quoted has me saying "people shouldn't be praising the gun. They should be praising the man." What do you gather from that statement? That I think its not ok for the guy to defend himself?

No you're right. The guy had a gun and knew how to use it. Someone in another situation may not have been as lucky. People that don't know what they are doing with guns shouldn't have guns.

[Dude Abides]

This is why West PA is best PA. East PA is a bunch of lames with an inferiority complex that they're not New York.

[Pimpbaa]

He had a screwdriver, clearly he was there to fix something. He had a stun gun to protect himself from trigger happy Korean vets.

[ClovingWestbrook]

So the post you quoted has me saying "people shouldn't be praising the gun. They should be praising the man." What do you gather from that statement? That I think its not ok for the guy to defend himself?

How about you actually answer the question with what you suggest he do in such a situation.

[methane47]

How about you actually answer the question with what you suggest he do in such a situation.

Lol this makes no sense.

You want me to make a statement on a point i don't agree with? sigh...

well... If we are talking about hypotheticals I guess he should have pulled out his service phaser turned it on stun and then shot the guy called Capn Kirk and waited for Judge Dredd to arrive.

[ClovingWestbrook]

Lol this makes no sense. You want me to make a statement on a point i don't agree with? sigh... well... If we are talking about hypotheticals I guess he should have pulled out his service phaser turned it on stun and then shot the guy called Capn Kirk and waited for Judge Dredd to arrive.

How would you suggest he defend himself if he weren't going to use his gun?

[mr2xxx]

He also carried a screwdriver. Unless the reporter is omitting the identification of the burglar as a menace, this is a *terrible* way to proceed. There are countless cases of neighbours and relatives getting shot after entering someone's house by accident or without prior communication.

Really? This is 4:30 AM not really the time a friend or family member comes by for a visit.

[Funky Papa]

Really? This is 4:30 AM not really the time a friend or family member comes by for a visit.

Certainly, but it can happen (and indeed, people have been blasted after entering the wrong home).

Fourth rule of gun safety:

Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

Per the NRA:

Know your target and what is beyond. Be absolutely sure you have identified your target beyond any doubt. Equally important, be aware of the area beyond your target. This means observing your prospective area of fire before you shoot. Never fire in a direction in which there are people or any other potential for mishap. Think first. Shoot second.

If you see an unknown person with a taser and a screwdriver in your premises you should be able to drop him like a brick. But firing at some shadowy figure just because it's too late... well, that's not very wise.

[mr2xxx]

Certainly, but it can happen (and indeed, people have been blasted after entering the wrong home). Fourth rule of gun safety: If you see an unknown person with a taser and a screwdriver in your premises you should be able to drop him like a brick. But firing at some shadowy figure just because it's too late... well, that's not very wise.

I see what you are saying but the guy is a military vet that has gone through the proper training so i will give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he identified the target. Also he said "halt who goes there" so he gave a friend or family member enough time to identify themselves .

On a side not it seems difficult to be 100% sure of your target in the darkness because in order to identify them you need to turn on the lights but you will give away your position. Yelling at them would also but at least you get to position yourself before yelling.

[evil solrac v3.0]

Lol this makes no sense. You want me to make a statement on a point i don't agree with? sigh... well... If we are talking about hypotheticals I guess he should have pulled out his service phaser turned it on stun and then shot the guy called Capn Kirk and waited for Judge Dredd to arrive.

the gun made it far easier for an 84 year old man to defend himself. you brought up a story about an officer discharging his service weapon and injuring himself. the two have nothing to do with each other. nobody, NOBODY was praising the gun, they were praising the man. a lot of weapons and tools can both help and hurt you.

[LuchaShaq]

Screw driver + Stungun does not mean that it was the robber's intention to kill the people On the other hand. Guns hurt people. http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...ischarge-injur

Anyone who breaks into a home and gets shot gets zero sympathy from me even if they die, especially when they have two weapons they could easily kill someone with, let alone two elderly people he could probably smother with a pillow.

[Mammoth Jones]

Anyone who breaks into a home and gets shot gets zero sympathy from me even if they die, especially when they have two weapons they could easily kill someone with, let alone two elderly people he could probably smother with a pillow.

This. If he shot him in NY he'd be on trial for manslaughter.

[Archer]

I have no problems with this story. One small case of justice, served cold.

[zoukka]

Guns save lives.

This sentence seems incomplete to be accurate.

Guns save and end lives.

[Funky Papa]

I see what you are saying but the guy is a military vet that has gone through the proper training

He is also a 82yo that just got out of the bed.

Mind you, I'm more than happy with the outcome.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

He is also a 82yo that just got out of the bed. Mind you, I'm more than happy with the outcome.

So people are alert right away. Lord knows I'm not at all though. lol

Quick question, under Spanish law what would be the outcome of this situation? Just wondering how it would be handled in different jurisdictions.

[Grinchy]

I have no problems with this story. One small case of justice, served cold.

What? You're not going to sympathize with the armed piece of shit that broke into someone's house with unknown intent? That seems to be the protocol in these threads, and you're breaking it.

[zoukka]

Quick question, under Spanish law what would be the outcome of this situation? Just wondering how it would be handled in different jurisdictions.

I'm not commenting what is right or wrong in this case, but here in Scandinavia the old guy would probably sit in jail for manslaughter right about now.

[Funky Papa]

So people are alert right away. Lord knows I'm not at all though. lol Quick question, under Spanish law what would be the outcome of this situation? Just wondering how it would be handled in different jurisdictions.

Assuming the shooter fired his weapon out of fear for his own life (or any other person) and you could plausibly demonstrate that the intruder was a serious threat, you should walk free. In any case, a full investigation would be launched and a judge would have to clear what happened. So you better call your lawyer and hope the burglar doesn't have a family interested in ruining your life.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm not commenting what is right or wrong in this case, but here in Scandinavia the old guy would probably sit in jail for manslaughter right about now.

Wait why?

Assuming the shooter fired his weapon out of fear for his own life (or any other person) and you could plausibly demonstrate that the intruder was a serious threat, you should walk free. In any case, a full investigation would be launched.

Logical enough. Though personally I think even if the robber was unarmed I think the guy would be able to claim fear for his life or at least his wife. Thanks

[Funky Papa]

The screwdriver vs gun argument is extremely tricky as our laws observe proportional response. Which of course means fuck all when the dude is coming at you with a sharp tool and you are holding a gun.

[evil solrac v3.0]

I'm not commenting what is right or wrong in this case, but here in Scandinavia the old guy would probably sit in jail for manslaughter right about now.

you sure about that? even if they found tools and weapons to break in the house?
any way to find out?

[Godslay]

It seems like one of these threads pop up ever so often. First of all there are more responsible gun owners than not. People should have the ability to defend their homes. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. So on and so forth.

Additionally, if you are stupid enough to break in to someone's house expect to be met with force, perhaps deadly force. Good for the old guy and defending himself and his wife.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The screwdriver vs gun argument is extremely tricky as our laws observe proportional response. Which of course means fuck all when the dude is coming at you with a sharp tool and you are holding a gun.

See that's the issue I have trying to apply proportional response especially when inside the house. One huge issue is age and health of the parties involved.

[zoukka]

Well we had a case just a while ago where a girl was tied down in an apartment, beaten and threatened with torture. Once the girl got out and non-fatally stabbed one of the intruders she got more jail time than the intruders.

Finland fuck yeah... I guess.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Well we had a case just a while ago where a girl was tied down in an apartment, beaten and threatened with torture. Once the girl got out and non-fatally stabbed one of the intruders she got more jail time than the intruders. Finland fuck yeah... I guess.

That's fucking atrocious.

[Salmonax]

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

I dunno - a stun gun used on an 84 year-old could easily be lethal.

[zoukka]

That's fucking atrocious.

As an isolated case yes, but then I look at our recidivism rates and see that they are one of the best in the world... we also serve a fraction of time in jail than you guys for pretty much any crimes.

As a victim, that would be shitty, but as a citizen you should feel good. Tricky subjects.

[MechDX]

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

Who cares if he was carrying a MLP figure. He is on someone else's property, at night while breaking in. Deserved what he got.

[GotEmRunnin]

How would you suggest he defend himself if he weren't going to use his gun?

He can't answer that. I scanned every post here and don't see any post directly praising the gun they are all praising the old man. I could have missed a few post here and there but they certainly don't reflect the views of the majority which is what I think he's trying to say.

Next time I guess the old man should do himself a favor and just let him and his feeble old wife get stunned and stabbed with a screwdriver. Much safer than using a gun.

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

He can't answer that. I scanned every post here and don't see any post directly praising the gun they are all praising the old man. I could have missed a few post here and there but they certainly don't reflect the views of the majority which is what I think he's trying to say. Next time I guess the old man should do himself a favor and just let him and his feeble old wife get stunned and stabbed with a screwdriver. Much safer than using a gun.

Personally I kind of wonder if the guy wasn't on drugs or going for drug money.

[onken]

It did not magically go off, it was a negligent discharge. When Glocks first got adopted by the NYPD, cops used to get Glock leg all the time. Dc cops too.

What the heck is Glock leg, do they go off by accident more often than other guns or something?

[Escape Goat]

Ricciutti fired once, hitting suspect Raymond Hiles, 25, in the neck. Hills took off, but was arrested a few blocks away after Ricciutti called 911.

okay...?

[Alucrid]

The man was carrying a stun gun. This shows that he didn't intend to kill.

And the screwdriver is if he needs to replace the batteries, right?

[Dai101]

This should be the first post

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

What the heck is Glock leg, do they go off by accident more often than other guns or something?

Not accident, just Google Glock Leg, it's a training issue not gun issue.

[Alucrid]

Screw driver + Stungun does not mean that it was the robber's intention to kill the people On the other hand. Guns hurt people. http://www.lawofficer.com/article/ne...ischarge-injur

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=472673

[gooey kablooie]

"I said, 'Halt, who's there?' " Ricciutti told Pittsburgh station WPXI. "I'm thinking, friend or foe, he shouldn't be there that time of day."

[DonasaurusRex]

....do not fuck with people that have been to war, that shit doesnt turn off

[Coins]

I think theres been enough stories of stun guns killing people for the would be robber to know it can kill.

Fuck him. Too bad the old vet missed.

[criesofthepast]

Halt, who's there?!? lol

[Kinyou]

You know... I don't think Clint Eastwood actually ever fired a gun in that movie.

And the screwdriver is if he needs to replace the batteries, right?

You know... probably to break stuff open.

If I'd look through my house for something I could use as a weapon, a screwdriver probably wouldn't even make it in the top 10

[LuchaShaq]

You know... I don't think Clint Eastwood actually ever fired a gun in that movie. You know... probably to break stuff open. If I'd look through my house for something I could use as a weapon, a screwdriver probably wouldn't even make it in the top 10

You realize it wouldn't be that hard to stab someone with a screwdriver right? Or if it's a 18 inch+ screw driver like in my garage the thing is basically a baton with a semi sharp end.

[Kinyou]

You realize it wouldn't be that hard to stab someone with a screwdriver right? Or if it's a 18 inch+ screw driver like in my garage the thing is basically a baton with a semi sharp end.

Sure, I'm just saying that carrying a screwdriver doesn't instantly imply that he has the intention to kill people.

[starchild excalibur]

andherewego.gif

>"Guns save lives!"
>"Guns take lives!"

rinse, repeat


But seriously, good on the old man for defending himself.

[Valnen]

Guns save lives.

Lives that matter, anyway.

[Tathanen]

Who cares if he was carrying a MLP figure. He is on someone else's property, at night while breaking in. Deserved what he got.

If someone breaks into my home carrying a MLP figure, I'm shooting first and not even asking questions later.