[ReaperXL07]

Yea Panasonic posted a $10 billion loss and I believe Sharp lost big as well. Which is why Kaz is shifting focus away from TVs and making their TV line cheaper. Sony's new focus is on cameras/camcorders, mobile phones, and gaming. Seems like they are trying to become smaller and more efficient. Will be interesting to see how that all shakes out.

Is the medical stuff focused under the digital imaging division? I seem to remember Kaz saying that was going to be a big push for them aswell. There is alot of money to be had in the field, it just depends on how quickly Kaz can shift things around in the company to what he wants, and if he can do it in a reasonable time frame I think. He's only recently taken over, so I think it will take some time to see the effects of his new position. Sonys biggest issue internally is the stubborn Japanese old guard that refuse any kind of change, even for the better.

[get2sammyb]

Oh joy, another doom and gloom thread in which the armchair analysts come out in force with their grand statements about what a gigantic company should and shouldn't do.

Sigh.

At this point, I want Sony to recover just for the sake of shutting everybody up. And yes, before anybody quotes me and points it out, I probably shouldn't have entered this thread in the first place.

[nib95]

Sony are still charging premiums for not so premium products. TV,s HiFi's etc. Having pretty looking sets isn't enough any more when much of the competition actually ousts you on technological merit. When were their TV's last well ahead of the curve?

[Heavy]

Are any of their businesses profitable?

[Parmenides]

Sony, Panasonic Fall to 30-Year Lows as TV Losses Mount

-Sony Corp. and Panasonic Corp. (6752), Japan’s biggest consumer-electronics makers, fell to the lowest level in three decades after forecasting earnings that missed estimates because of a failure to end losses from TVs. -Sony, the world’s No. 3 TV maker, fell to the lowest level since August 1980. The maker of Walkman music players and Bravia TVs closed today with a market value of $17.5 billion, compared with more than $100 billion in 2000. Panasonic, the world’s largest maker of plasma TVs, fell to the lowest since January 1978, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. -The declines come after the companies said losses from their TV businesses will continue, and investors remained skeptical about predictions for returning to profit this year. Without hit products like the compact-disc player of the 1980s, Sony (6758) and Panasonic have lost ground to Samsung Electronics Co. (005930) and LG Electronics Inc. in TVs and to Apple Inc. (AAPL)’s iPod. -Panasonic, eliminating about 17,000 jobs after posting a record 772 billion-yen ($9.7 billion) loss last year, said today it expects net income will probably be 50 billion yen in the 12 months ending March 31. The projection missed the 106 billion- yen average of 18 analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg. -Sony said yesterday that TV sales will decline 11 percent to 17.5 million units and will lead to an 80 billion-yen loss in the year that began last month. -By comparison, Suwon, South Korea-based Samsung, the world’s biggest maker of phones, chips and TVs, has gained 23 percent this year and is valued at $167 billion. Cupertino, California-based Apple, with a market capitalization of $533 billion, has jumped 41 percent in New York trading. -“The Japanese companies need to develop unique and No. 1 products to propel growth in the future,” said Yuuki Sakurai, chief executive officer at Tokyo-based Fukoku Capital Management Inc., which manages $7.3 billion of assets. “At this point, I don’t see any company in Japan that can do that.”

[Azih]

Sony are still charging premiums for not so premium products. TV,s HiFi's etc. Having pretty looking sets isn't enough any more when much of the competition actually ousts you on technological merit. When were their TV's last well ahead of the curve?

Trinitron?

[teruterubozu]

The June shareholders meeting is going to be disastrous.

Poor Kaz is going to get thrown under the bus soon. He was probably appointed president last month to be the sacrificial lamb.

[M.D]

Are any of their businesses profitable?

Sony Pictures, Sony Music, Sony Finance (?), Playstation and imaging division IIRC

[TedNindo]

Sony are still charging premiums for not so premium products. TV,s HiFi's etc. Having pretty looking sets isn't enough any more when much of the competition actually ousts you on technological merit. When were their TV's last well ahead of the curve?

The trinitrons?

I think Japan seriously underestimated South Korean electronics. Everyone is bying Samsung because they are cheaper and they are actually ahead tech-wise and don't seem to be slowing down.

[2San]

Sony are still charging premiums for not so premium products.

Honestly bought the Xperia Play which considering the specs was pretty overpriced, but I thought it has superior controls and Sony would at least properly support it with a decent stream of PSX titles like on PSN. I also though even if Sony does nothing I still have emulation to save me. As it turns out the support is non-existant. It still functions as a decent emulator device, though compatibility sucks at times. Should've gone for iPhone tbh, even though I detest touch controls.

[shinnn]

[Liamario]

His face in that picture is amazing. No caption needed.

[Krev]

Why not?

I would think that a strategically sound and forward thinking electronics company like Samsung would not want to enter the video game console market right now.

[ari]

Whatever happens, their gaming division will survive.

How? You think they are saying fuck movies and computers, we're going straight gaming? Their movies is the only thing carrying them right now. Ever since the launch of the PS3, That thing was hurting them. :/

[Vigilant Walrus]

Samsungs engineer are not on pair with Sony. But Samsung came from humble beginnings. It was Sony who used them back then. Sony were masters of design and marketing. Japan was strong. Korea was wasteful and cheap labor, like China was.

Samsung did all the small stuff. But Samsung grew, and they learned. Then they learned design and to do marketing. And now, Samsung has one big advantage - Samsung has copied others a lot, but they are very good at making cheap products. Samsung is rated on one of the most powerful tech companies in the world, because their internals are in almost everything. From washing machines to apple products. It might be ram, or a fan, or a cable, or something else. Samsung makes it.



Sony is legendary. Steve Jobs remembering Morita; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7WmPz5kgjc

[Toski]

tv division is a massive black hole that is sucking sony in, its terrible 5-10 years ago sony tv would be at the top of my list today its near the bottom, so overpriced its not funny samsung are doing it right, thats why we have 2 of their TVs

The prices of Sony's tvs have been in line with Samsung, LG, & Panasonic. What really hurts Sony is that they don't own any manufacturing facilities to sell panels to third party assemblers such as Vizio and store brands.

[Raonak]

Vita phone for 100 bucks on a 2 year contract, I'm all in. Please make this happen Sony.

I don't know why some people want a PS phone; you think the vita has a bad battery life now. just imagine what it'll be with a constant signal connection.

you'd always have to worry that if you play a game for any extended period of time, you won't have enough battery to last the rest of the day.

[Erethian]

Sony Pictures, Sony Music, Sony Finance (?), Playstation and imaging division IIRC

Sony Finance has easily been their best performing division the last few years.

[entrement]

Oh joy, another doom and gloom thread in which the armchair analysts come out in force with their grand statements about what a gigantic company should and shouldn't do. Sigh. At this point, I want Sony to recover just for the sake of shutting everybody up. And yes, before anybody quotes me and points it out, I probably shouldn't have entered this thread in the first place.

Do you understand what's the point of a discussion forum?

Whether it's Sony or any other company, it always seems that people like yourself always come out to stifle discussion for sake of some weird sense of loyalty.

[Clear]

Massive overreactions as usual so far in this thread.

Comparing Sony to Sega is frankly, laughable. Sony shipped more PS3's alone over the last 12 months than Sega did Dreamcast's over that platform's entire lifespan. With PS3 representing only a little more than a half of Sony's Playstation branded gaming hardware outputs for the year.

[M.D]

Samsungs engineer are not on pair with Sony. But Samsung came from humble beginnings. It was Sony who used them back then. Sony were masters of design and marketing. Japan was strong. Korea was wasteful and cheap labor, like China was. Samsung did all the small stuff. But Samsung grew, and they learned. Then they learned design and to do marketing. And now, Samsung has one big advantage - Samsung has copied others a lot, but they are very good at making cheap products. Samsung is rated on one of the most powerful tech companies in the world, because their internals are in almost everything. From washing machines to apple products. It might be ram, or a fan, or a cable, or something else. Samsung makes it. Sony is legendary. Steve Jobs remembering Morita; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7WmPz5kgjc

I beg to differ!



They must forget how to design when making that.... thing

[1-D_FTW]

Sony, Panasonic Fall to 30-Year Lows as TV Losses Mount

Yeah, I really only expect one more cycle (2013) before Panny pulls the plug on plasma.

[TedNindo]

I would think that a strategically sound and forward thinking electronics company like Samsung would not want to enter the video game console market right now.

It would be pretty easy for them to enter the casual market. Their tv's are becoming more then powerful enough to handle IOS type games and they are implementing motion tracking and voice recognition too.
Their new OLED's will have upgradable hardware.
They wouldn't have to risk selling a console because the hardware required is already inside their TV's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhdN...feature=fvwrel

[Zeouterlimits]

And yes, before anybody quotes me and points it out, I probably shouldn't have entered this thread in the first place.

Well at least you realise your own foolishness.

[darkwing]

so is it time to buy?

[entrement]

Massive overreactions as usual so far in this thread. Comparing Sony to Sega is frankly, laughable. Sony shipped more PS3's alone over the last 12 months than Sega did Dreamcast's over that platform's entire lifespan. With PS3 representing only a little more than a half of Sony's Playstation branded gaming hardware outputs for the year.

How much money did the PS3 cost Sony compared to Sega and the Dreamcast? They've done a great job with its turnaround, but don't forget the massive costs sunk into the system itself.

[Smiles and Cries]

they should break all the divisions up into separate companies since they don't seem to know how to work well together

that was gaming could always stay alive

[Azih]

they should break all the divisions up into separate companies since they don't seem to know how to work well together that was gaming could always stay alive

Not the worst idea... convergence certainly hasn't helped them.

What divisions of Sony are profitable at the moment though? Gaming? Cameras?

[balladofwindfishes]

Massive overreactions as usual so far in this thread. Comparing Sony to Sega is frankly, laughable. Sony shipped more PS3's alone over the last 12 months than Sega did Dreamcast's over that platform's entire lifespan. With PS3 representing only a little more than a half of Sony's Playstation branded gaming hardware outputs for the year.

This is an unfair statement. The size of the gaming industry has exploded since the days of the Dreamcast, so of course the sales will be more than the DC. It's not right to compare raw numbers, you have to compare changes in profit.

[teruterubozu]

Massive overreactions as usual so far in this thread.

LOL, tell that to the stockholders holding at a 30 yr low.

[VALIS]

Massive overreactions as usual so far in this thread. Comparing Sony to Sega is frankly, laughable. Sony shipped more PS3's alone over the last 12 months than Sega did Dreamcast's over that platform's entire lifespan. With PS3 representing only a little more than a half of Sony's Playstation branded gaming hardware outputs for the year.

Oh yes, people are definitely overreacting to a company being at its lowest point in thirty-one years. Haven't they heard of Uncharted?

[Wyndstryker]

A 31 year low...thats pretty much before Sony made the Playstations and maybe even the Walkmans...

[Fox318]

Not the worst idea... convergence certainly hasn't helped them. What divisions of Sony are profitable at the moment though? Gaming? Cameras?

Insurance and Finance

[Baconsammy]

Analysts say the firm has also been lagging behind in innovation and product development, which are key to growth in the consumer electronics sector.


This. Stop copying. Start leading again.

[Mr. Serious Business]

When IBM got into trouble in the late 80s/early 90s, they shed 200,000 employees. Now obviously they were and still are a massive company, but Sony is the same. Much like the IBM of that period, Sony is missing out on key markets and focusing too much on low margin products.

Sony isn't beyond hope. Hell, IBM lost over $8 billion in the 1992 financial year, and over $16 billion between 1991-93. But they had a talented CEO from outside the company's ranks:

In April 1993, IBM hired Louis V. Gerstner, Jr. as its new CEO. For the first time since 1914 IBM had recruited a leader from outside its ranks. Gerstner had been chairman and CEO of RJR Nabisco for four years, and had previously spent 11 years as a top executive at American Express. Gerstner brought with him a customer-oriented sensibility and the strategic-thinking expertise that he had honed through years as a management consultant at McKinsey & Co.. Recognizing that his first priority was to stabilize the company, he adopted a triage mindset and took quick, dramatic action. His early decisions included recommitting to the mainframe, selling the Federal Systems Division to Loral in order to replenish the company's cash coffers, continuing to shrink the workforce (reaching a low of 220,000 employees in 1994), and driving significant cost reductions within the company. Most importantly, Gerstner decided to reverse the move to spin off IBM business units into separate companies. He recognized that one of IBM's enduring strengths was its ability to provide integrated solutions for customers – someone who could represent more than piece parts or components. Splitting the company would have destroyed that unique IBM advantage.

Or Sony could look at Nissan. Reduce the bloat of the company and focus on high-margin products that actually do well.

[teruterubozu]

When IBM got into trouble in the late 80s/early 90s, they shed 200,000 employees. Now obviously they were and still are a massive company, but Sony is the same. Much like the IBM of that period, Sony is missing out on key markets and focusing too much on low margin products. Sony isn't beyond hope. Hell, IBM lost over $8 billion in the 1992 financial year, and over $16 billion between 1991-93. But they had a talented CEO from outside the company's ranks: Or Sony could look at Nissan. Reduce the bloat of the company and focus on high-margin products that actually do well.

Howard Stringer was that "outside" guy who was supposed to change the corporate culture, but he sunk 'em even lower. Plus IBM was facing a lot less competition back then in the computing sector.

[2San]

Not the worst idea... convergence certainly hasn't helped them. What divisions of Sony are profitable at the moment though? Gaming? Cameras?

Camera's should be profitable. They have the 2nd largest market share(If I remember right), they have the average consumer with the cybershot and the high end with the alpha. I'm not sure if it's actually a devision on it's own though.

[thehypocrite]

Expected market reaction.

[teruterubozu]

Expected market reaction.

Time to buy?

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Or Sony could look at Nissan. Reduce the bloat of the company and focus on high-margin products that actually do well.

Or Chrysler recently, companies can overcome these things. Sometimes they come out of it better than they were.

[1-D_FTW]

they should break all the divisions up into separate companies since they don't seem to know how to work well together that was gaming could always stay alive

The gaming division was losing billions in PS3' early life cycle. If it hadn't of had the other divisions propping it up, things would have gotten real ugly, real fast.

[Krev]

It would be pretty easy for them to enter the casual market. Their tv's are becoming more then powerful enough to handle IOS type games and they are implementing motion tracking and voice recognition too. Their new OLED's will have upgradable hardware. They wouldn't have to risk selling a console because the hardware required is already inside their TV's. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFhdN...feature=fvwrel

That's more like it.

[Mr. Serious Business]

Howard Stringer was that "outside" guy who was supposed to change the corporate culture, but he sunk 'em even lower. Plus IBM was facing a lot less competition back then in the computing sector.

But he wasn't really an outside guy. He had been working at Sony since the 90s. Before that he mainly just worked for CBS, which doesn't provide a huge amount of experience for running a massive electronics company. And IBM was facing plenty of competition (Windows for OS, Oracle in software, Dell in PCs, etc.). IBM was a massive electronics company which was being outcompeted in just about everything they sold.

[Raonak]

Yeah, I really only expect one more cycle (2013) before Panny pulls the plug on plasma.

wow. didn't know panasonic were bleeding too.

[Datschge]

What divisions of Sony are profitable at the moment though? Gaming? Cameras?

From the media create thread:

[CadetMahoney]

Retarded Sony Ericsson collaboration.

This. sucked ass/

5-10 years ago sony tv would be at the top of my list today its near the bottom, so overpriced its not funny. Samsung are doing it right, thats why we have 2 of their TVs

I have 2 Samsung tv's and one monitor.

[teruterubozu]

But he wasn't really an outside guy. He had been working at Sony since the 90s. Before that he mainly just worked for CBS, which doesn't provide a huge amount of experience for running a massive electronics company. And IBM was facing plenty of competition (Windows for OS, Oracle in software, Dell in PCs, etc.). IBM was a massive electronics company which was being outcompeted in just about everything they sold.

I thought Stringer was a full outsider - guess I was wrong.

As you mentioned, I think the Nissan and Carlos Ghosn turnaround is more appropriate for the Sony situation in terms of bringing in a "Mr. Fixit". Either way, Kaz may be looking at a "no confidence" vote soon.

[butter_stick]

They should invest more in 3D. The payoff is coming any day now.

[Clear]

Considering the disasters both natural and made made affecting their business over the last year (Earthquake, Tsunami, Thai floods, PSN hack, and most of all the state of the Yen) that their bottom-line was adversely affected should come as no surprise to anyone.

Oh yes, people are definitely overreacting to a company being at its lowest point in thirty-one years. Haven't they heard of Uncharted?

Personally, all I really care about is the gaming/multimedia side. So Sony's performance in that area is what I'm most interested in; Because if that business remains viable its likely to survive in the long-term, regardless of its parent companies state.

I couldn't give a toss if their insurance arm prints money or that they are selling off their chemical business subsidiaries, it is irrelevant to my interests. This is gaming forum and I'm interested in gaming. Period.

[teruterubozu]

Considering the disasters both natural and made made affecting their business over the last year (Earthquake, Tsunami, Thai floods, PSN hack, and most of all the state of the Yen) that their bottom-line was adversely affected should come as no surprise to anyone. Personally, all I really care about is the gaming/multimedia side. So Sony's performance in that area is what I'm most interested in; Because if that business remains viable its likely to survive in the long-term, regardless of its parent companies state. I couldn't give a toss if their insurance arm prints money or that they are selling off their chemical business subsidiaries, it is irrelevant to my interests. This is gaming forum and I'm interested in gaming. Period.

Good thing this thread is on the gaming side then.