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Gaborn
Gaborn News:
Penetrating Your World™
(05-11-2012, 07:54 PM)
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"So, yeah, it's just the elevation," my new friend continues to yell into my ear. "The girls here drink too much, and the elevation fucks with their heads. So then they say they got roofied." He furrows his bushy eyebrows and raises his beer in the direction of the dance floor, which is teeming with cloudy-eyed kids gyrating to Taio Cruz. "People think we're the 'rape capital' of America now, but we're not. Missoula is just like any other college town."

Maybe. Maybe not.

On May 1st, the Federal Department of Justice launched an investigation into possible gender bias in the handling of sexual assault allegations by the Missoula Police Department, the County Attorney's Office, and the University of Montana. Officials say there have been at least 80 reported rapes in Missoula over the last three years, with 11 of the sexual assaults reported over the last 18 months involving UM students, including an alleged gang-rape by members of the Grizzlies' lucrative Division I football team.

When I heard that Nick, my friend's younger brother, was planning a trip back to Missoula, I asked him to take me along because I, too, was curious: Why Missoula?

***

"I think a lot of the sexual assaults are pretty fucking legit except for there are a lot of really slutty girls here who want to get with a lot of people and then they want to claim rape," Rachel, a UM senior and one of Nick's friends, tells me while smoking a bowl at her kitchen table and shuffling a deck of cards.
"We're in college," Tori says. "People do stupid stuff. If girls keep lying, everyone's going to think Missoula is the town that "cried rape." She offers to connect me with her Griz friends, but sends me an apologetic text the next day saying that the coach forbade the players to talk to the media. "They never want to talk about the rape charges," she had told me earlier. "We have a rule: Don't bring it up unless they bring it up with you."

"The guys are rapists, but the girls want to get fucked," she says, over and over again.

I try to tell her that statistics say –

"I don't give a fuck about your statistics," she says, pounding the table for emphasis. "Things are different in Missoula. I'm not saying they're not rapists. But the girls help it along."

But things are not different in Missoula.

Story Here

edited op on request to prevent any risk of copyright issues.
Last edited by Gaborn; 05-11-2012 at 10:24 PM.
bosskoss21
Member
(05-11-2012, 07:55 PM)
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Am I supposed to read that?
Lord Ghirahim
Member
(05-11-2012, 07:58 PM)
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I didn't even get to quote it.
Devolution
Banned
(05-11-2012, 08:06 PM)
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It's easier to think of rape as the nasty collateral damage that comes with binge drinking and progressive female sexuality [than it is to come to terms with the fact that rapists live among us — despite research that proves over and over again that they do.

Hello.
Kinyou
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:07 PM)
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I still don't really get the attention whore accusation. I mean, there must be better ways to get attention than to yell "rape"
Canuck76
Banned
(05-11-2012, 08:15 PM)
Wow. I don't even know what to say. Pretty messed up.

From what i hear some places in the country are kind of like that, where people drink and have sex a ton because their's "nothing to do"

That's pretty ridiculous though
marrec
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:17 PM)
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And the third is that the girls in Missoula are the type who "make shit up for attention." Girls "cry rape" in Missoula, say the girls of Missoula, who are often quicker to blame "sluts" for getting themselves into sketchy situations than are guys. I'm told over and over again that, thanks to the allegations that have surfaced over the past few months, more and more girls are blaming their post-hookup shame on the guys they — in the minds of so many of the Missoulians I meet — happily and carelessly took home the night before.

FML
theBishop
Banned
(05-11-2012, 08:19 PM)
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Did you bold this part:

"I just don't think that's rape," one of Nick's friends says of Ali's story. "I mean, the guy was definitely pushing too hard, but is that rape?" Another, who vaguely knows her from class, says she seems like "she just wants attention."

To demonstrate its incredible sexism?
Cymbal Head
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:27 PM)
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Thanks for posting this. Interesting (and kinda scary) read.
marrec
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by theBishop

Did you bold this part:

To demonstrate its incredible sexism?

I was just about to quote that part. Holy Shit.

The rape culture in America is so pervasive and especially so on College Campuses. I really hope Missoulla's case gets national attention so that attitudes can change. Seriously people...

"I just don't think that's rape," one of Nick's friends says of Ali's story. "I mean, the guy was definitely pushing too hard, but is that rape?" Another, who vaguely knows her from class, says she seems like "she just wants attention."

This attitude is EVERYWHERE.

It does make me want to go to Missoula and ask people 'What the fuck?' randomly until someone apologizes.
Gaborn
Gaborn News:
Penetrating Your World™
(05-11-2012, 08:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by theBishop

Did you bold this part:



To demonstrate its incredible sexism?

Indeed. Although, personally I found:

In Missoula, I'm learning, drunk guys who may have "made mistakes" nearly always get the benefit of the doubt. Drunk girls, however, do not.

Just as relevant and pointed.
Volimar
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:37 PM)
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I've never understood the hook up lifestyle. STI's, you never know what kind of person you're really going home with, and now rapists and women that falsely accuse on the rise. A night of sex just isn't worth it.



That said, it seems like the best way to protect yourself is to record your entire encounter...
marrec
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by Volimar

I've never understood the hook up lifestyle. STI's, you never know what kind of person you're really going home with, and now rapists and women that falsely accuse on the rise. A night of sex just isn't worth it.



That said, it seems like the best way to protect yourself is to record your entire encounter...

Wow, you came out of that article in an entirely different place then I did.

Just illustrates the disconnect people have about Rape in America. Fuck.
Volimar
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by marrec

Wow, you came out of that article in an entirely different place then I did.

Just illustrates the disconnect people have about Rape in America. Fuck.

I'm just barely talking about the article. I wish I could be surprised by the rape culture we live in, especially in college towns, but I'm not.

I have a friend that went to Ohio University in Athens. She was raped at a party. The campus and city authorities were handling things with kid gloves until she told them that she had interned at a newspaper in my hometown and that there were plenty of people interested in her story. When they brought the guy in for "a second look" and gave him the real experience, he confessed easily. Copped a plea though...

Don't even ask me about my days at Ohio State... Fraternity thugs aren't just a stereotype.
Silver_key
Junior Member
(05-11-2012, 08:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kinyou

I still don't really get the attention whore accusation. I mean, there must be better ways to get attention than to yell "rape"

Could always get pregnant. Seriously though, "no means no" should be a benefit to us guys.

When a guy hears 'no' or gets resistance in an interaction, your penis should go into a state of Pavlovian limpness. "No" should carry weight. No dates, no phone calls, no flirting, no squishy love letters, no drinks...nothing. It will eventually become easy to tell who wants to party and who doesn't, thus making life easier on all of us.
Gaborn
Gaborn News:
Penetrating Your World™
(05-11-2012, 08:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Silver_key

Could always get pregnant. Seriously though, "no means no" should be a benefit to us guys.

When a guy hears 'no' or gets resistance in an interaction, your penis should go into a state of Pavlovian limpness. "No" should carry weight. No dates, no phone calls, no flirting, no squishy love letters, no drinks...nothing. It will eventually become easy to tell who wants to party and who doesn't, thus making life easier on all of us.

so... are you suggesting if a woman decides she doesn't want to have sex with you you'll cut off all contact?
kirblar
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:54 PM)
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http://www.montanakaimin.com/feature...4#.T61svMX0lGm
Here's the "Ali's Story" article referenced.

The reactions of the college students make much more sense, as honestly? It's really ambiguous.
cousins
Member
(05-11-2012, 08:57 PM)
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I stopped reading Jezebel when they posted a video, and screenshots, of a girl being gang-raped in South Africa. Her face was clearly visible. Shit was fucked up, and they didn't care. Fuck the site, and all it's affiliates.

For anyone interested: http://www.dailydot.com/news/jezebel...eo-post-nojez/
Omegasquash
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(05-11-2012, 08:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by Silver_key

Could always get pregnant. Seriously though, "no means no" should be a benefit to us guys.

When a guy hears 'no' or gets resistance in an interaction, your penis should go into a state of Pavlovian limpness. "No" should carry weight. No dates, no phone calls, no flirting, no squishy love letters, no drinks...nothing. It will eventually become easy to tell who wants to party and who doesn't, thus making life easier on all of us.

You had me right up until the bolded. Just because she doesn't want to screw you doesn't mean she doesn't want your company. She might like you and not want to "go all the way" yet.

Frankly I think that if a girl says "no" and you walk out, it just proves that you were there for sex in the first place. And if she's saying no IN THE BEDROOM, you didn't do a good enough job getting the message across initially.
Deified Data
(05-11-2012, 08:58 PM)
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Women don't report instances of rape because if people found out they'd call her a slut.

The most vicious cycle.
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
(05-11-2012, 09:03 PM)
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Some terrible stories in there. Aside from that I'm not entirely sure what to take away from the article. There's so many conflicting points of view I don't really know what to think about it.
coldvein
Member
(05-11-2012, 09:03 PM)
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i grew up in this town. fucking love it. there are some negatives .. but overall it's a fantastic, beautiful place full of friendly people.
cousins
Member
(05-11-2012, 09:03 PM)
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This is depressing, though.
Volimar
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(05-11-2012, 09:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gaborn

so... are you suggesting if a woman decides she doesn't want to have sex with you you'll cut off all contact?



But women are only good for fucking right? I mean no guy could ever want anything other than sex from any woman in his life. Hell, if the checkout girl doesn't give me a hand job, I call over a manager to complain.

/wildly overreaching misogyny

Originally Posted by Silver_key

No dates, no phone calls, no flirting, no squishy love letters, no drinks...nothing. It will eventually become easy to tell who wants to party and who doesn't, thus making life easier on all of us.

Didn't think I'd see such a post on GAF in this day and age.
equap
Banned
(05-11-2012, 09:04 PM)
Silver_key
Junior Member
(05-11-2012, 09:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gaborn

so... are you suggesting if a woman decides she doesn't want to have sex with you you'll cut off all contact?

It's better than date rape. Of course, I was stretching the bounds of exaggeration there....

On the other hand, if you're just on the prowl for sex then yeah, take the "no" and walk away before it turns into stalking or she gets a few more mixed (signals) drinks in her. If you want more, then just be sensible about things and have a heart.
Perspicacity
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(05-11-2012, 09:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by equap

http://www.ottsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/airplane.jpg

Kill yourself
FStop7
Member
(05-11-2012, 09:07 PM)
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Note to self, stay the fuck away from Missoula, Montana. What a repulsive, horrible environment.


Originally Posted by equap

http://www.ottsworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/airplane.jpg

Bye.
Last edited by FStop7; 05-11-2012 at 09:10 PM.
coldvein
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(05-11-2012, 09:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by FStop7

Note to self, stay the fuck away from Montana.

no! montana is great. everyone should visit.
Gaborn
Gaborn News:
Penetrating Your World™
(05-11-2012, 09:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Silver_key

It's better than date rape. Of course, I was stretching the bounds of exaggeration there....

On the other hand, if you're just on the prowl for sex then yeah, take the "no" and walk away before it turns into stalking or she gets a few more mixed (signals) drinks in her. If you want more, then just be sensible about things and have a heart.

It's sad that the only choice is date rape or walk away totally if a girl refuses to have sex with you.
theBishop
Banned
(05-11-2012, 09:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gaborn

It's sad that the only choice is date rape or walk away totally if a girl refuses to have sex with you.

what if you can liek totally tell she wants it even though she's playing hard to get and then she's all like 'NO WAY' but you know deep down she really means yes and you just have to be persistent and help lighten the mood a little with a beverage and then she's like 'Nooooooooooo....' and kinda trails off and you know she was about to say ok at the end before she just got a little sleepy.


?
Htown
STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
(05-11-2012, 09:13 PM)
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But shortly after Kerry went home with Gabe, her close friend was raped by a UM freshman who followed her into her dorm from the parking lot. Video surveillance shows the student following her into the building and then walking out alone 40 minutes later, carrying her pants, which he inexplicably stole. Afterwards, there were blood stains not only on her bedding but on her mattress, causing officials to ask if the girl had her period. She did not. Like Kerry, her friend was told that her case lacked sufficient evidence.

Kerry convinced her friend to take her case to the university, which ultimately expelled her alleged assailant – much to the chagrin of then-Chief Deputy County Attorney Kirsten Pabst LaCroix, who came to the academic hearing to testify on behalf of the student. LaCroix later told the Missoulian that, while she wouldn't comment on the hearing, "when we file sex charges against someone, it's going to ruin their life. Filing charges rings a bell that cannot be unrung."

Kerry's friend dropped out of school shortly after the incident. Kerry often sees Gabe walking around campus, and wonders if he's tried to attack other girls he's met on the weekends. "The only reason he didn't rape me is because I woke up," she believes.

Good lord.
Trojita
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(05-11-2012, 09:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by equap

I was waiting for someone to end up posting this.
Dr.Acula
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(05-11-2012, 09:22 PM)
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Yikes. All the students in that article, men and women, sound fucked up.

Originally Posted by Emerson

Some terrible stories in there. Aside from that I'm not entirely sure what to take away from the article. There's so many conflicting points of view I don't really know what to think about it.

What I take away is that all the students interviewed were in deep denial of just how self-destructive all their behaviour is.
Last edited by Dr.Acula; 05-11-2012 at 09:26 PM.
aggro crag
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(05-11-2012, 09:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Htown

Good lord.

Seriously, holy shit. LaCroix is an idiot. Bubbuubububut I don't want to ruin the life of rapist. Murders probably love her, "but murder charges are permanent, once you ring that bell, you can't unring it."
Last edited by aggro crag; 05-11-2012 at 09:57 PM.
Osietra
Banned
(05-11-2012, 09:56 PM)
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Dr Eggman needs to know does it show the rape?
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
(05-11-2012, 09:57 PM)
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These girls shouldn't be getting into these situations in the first place. Why come into contact with a place where you know men are drunk?

Hell it probably wasn't rape at all. I mean in parties girls often dress promiscuously. So they were probably asking for it and now they're just lying to get attention.
ViewtifulJC
shots fired? we run!
(05-11-2012, 09:59 PM)
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3 bans in less then 40 posts, 2 of them perma? New NeoGaf record?
Kabouter
Is not 40, damnit
(05-11-2012, 10:00 PM)

Originally Posted by Flying_Phoenix

These girls shouldn't be getting into these situations in the first place. Why come into contact with a place where you know men are drunk?

Hell it probably wasn't rape at all. I mean in parties girls often dress promiscuously. So they were probably asking for it and now they're just lying to get attention.

You know, it's worrying when you aren't sure whether something like this is sarcasm or genuine. I would've probably banned if I didn't know you as a poster.

Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

3 bans in less then 40 posts, 2 of them perma? New NeoGaf record?

There are no perma bans in this thread, avatars disappearing meaning a perma ban is a GAF myth.
aggro crag
Member
(05-11-2012, 10:00 PM)
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Originally Posted by Flying_Phoenix

These girls shouldn't be getting into these situations in the first place. Why come into contact with a place where you know men are drunk?

Hell it probably wasn't rape at all. I mean in parties girls often dress promiscuously. So they were probably asking for it and now they're just lying to get attention.

Is this a like a really deep troll? Not all men drink till they get rape-y. And women should be allowed to get drunk without having to worry about rape.
samus i am
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(05-11-2012, 10:02 PM)
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As a guy I don't get it.... How can you live with yourself knowing this is the only way you can get girls? How can you look at yourself in the morning?
06nbarnhill
Member
(05-11-2012, 10:03 PM)
Some gems of almost truth there.

Mostly garbage. Quit reading half way through.
Silver_key
Junior Member
(05-11-2012, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gaborn

It's sad that the only choice is date rape or walk away totally if a girl refuses to have sex with you.

Allow me to express a more elaborate opinion. Societal norms all start with a very broad statement and then gain nuance and refinement. As an example:

Wear clothes!
...unless you're at a nude beach
...but wear always clothes around other people's children
...and wear more clothes than usual at weddings and funerals
...but you can sometimes wear less clothes than usual at nightclubs and certain types of parties.

You might get strange looks if you were in a business suit at a nude beach but I doubt you'd be arrested. People are busted all the time though for being nude where they shouldn't. So, we can safely default to "Wear clothes!" and feel good about it.

If there is a problem with rape and "Don't rape!" is not working then I think it's valid to default to "No means walk away!". Those capable of adhering to a more nuanced approach to communication can puzzle it out but we can feel good if guys just walked away. This approach also helps to simplify the legal aspects as it establishes a firm basis for behavior. When in doubt, walk away. Everything else means the aggressor was not behaving acceptably.
Count Dookkake
Member
(05-11-2012, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

3 bans in less then 40 posts, 2 of them perma? New NeoGaf record?

They were asking for it.
Volimar
Member
(05-11-2012, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Flying_Phoenix

These girls shouldn't be getting into these situations in the first place. Why come into contact with a place where you know men are drunk?

Hell it probably wasn't rape at all. I mean in parties girls often dress promiscuously. So they were probably asking for it and now they're just lying to get attention.

Holy shit.
samus i am
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(05-11-2012, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by 06nbarnhill

Some gems of almost truth there.

Mostly garbage. Quit reading half way through.

What was garbage?
Kinyou
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(05-11-2012, 10:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by 06nbarnhill

Some gems of almost truth there.

Mostly garbage. Quit reading half way through.

Could you elaborate?

Originally Posted by Count Dookkake

They were asking for it.

lol!
Baconsammy
Banned
(05-11-2012, 10:05 PM)

Originally Posted by Flying_Phoenix

These girls shouldn't be getting into these situations in the first place. Why come into contact with a place where you know men are drunk?

Hell it probably wasn't rape at all. I mean in parties girls often dress promiscuously. So they were probably asking for it and now they're just lying to get attention.

What clueless people call "dressing promiscuously" women call "dressing". It's their right to dress. I hope your post was facetious.
mavs
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(05-11-2012, 10:06 PM)
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Kerry convinced her friend to take her case to the university, which ultimately expelled her alleged assailant – much to the chagrin of then-Chief Deputy County Attorney Kirsten Pabst LaCroix, who came to the academic hearing to testify on behalf of the student.

What. Why.
K.Sabot
Member
(05-11-2012, 10:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by Flying_Phoenix

These girls shouldn't be getting into these situations in the first place. Why come into contact with a place where you know men are drunk?

Hell it probably wasn't rape at all. I mean in parties girls often dress promiscuously. So they were probably asking for it and now they're just lying to get attention.

That sounded so serious that I actually burst out laughing. 10/10, If I could subscribe to a poster, I would.

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