[Pachterballs]

Some indie games on kickstarter look ok but then they ask for $15 or $20 retail and give you a steam code only. Taking the risk they even make it onto steam but the game during a sale most likely drop 30% or 50% so you are already out of pocket and taking a risk , then they may even end up in an indie bundle so you are shooting yourself in the foot twice. Would be much smarter to value the game cheaper like many alphas do on desura or other formats and make the game $5 or similar just to get the money to fund the project.

Whether or not a product goes on sale has no bearing on the value of the title to the guy who pledged. And you're making it sound like nobody nowhere should ever buy anything at RRP because it WILL GO ON SALE.

Stupid alarmist bullshit

[ArjanN]

Whether or not a product goes on sale has no bearing on the value of the title to the guy who pledged. And you're making it sound like nobody nowhere should ever buy anything at RRP because it WILL GO ON SALE. Stupid alarmist bullshit

I think it's better to think about it as donating to something that might get you some free bonus stuff. Same when I see people complaining about some of the higher pledge rewards of kickstarter not being worth it. The point is to support a project, the rewards are just small incentives to get more people to donate.

[butter_stick]

I can't make threads anymore. Many thanks to the haters who were being aggressive to me :(

[Pachterballs]

I can't make threads anymore. Many thanks to the haters who were being aggressive to me :(

/shrug

[Haunted]

I can't make threads anymore. Many thanks to the haters who were being aggressive to me :(

No one to blame but yourself.

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

I can't make threads anymore. Many thanks to the haters who were being aggressive to me :(

You never could make threads.

[cametall]

My concern is the lack of oversight we have. If I were to give to a Kickstarter (which I haven't) it'd be a very minimal amount.

Giving $50 - $60 to some no-name with nice concept art just seems irresponsible to me.

[shrimpjive]

I can't make threads anymore. Many thanks to the haters who were being aggressive to me :(

Why can't you make threads any longer?
How does that make you feel?
Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still?
If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss?
How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

[Dynamite Shikoku]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

lolz

[Haunted]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

sick burn

[GuardianE]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

Well played.

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

I say this guy get's butter_sticks thread making ability, Highlander style.

[butter_stick]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

Nice job. You have impressed the regulars and made a name for yourself.

[Jeff-DSA]

I'm late to the discussion, but I want to put in my thoughts.

I was a backer on Republique, but the by the end of the Kickstarter campaign I was totally tired of hearing about it and disgusted by how heavy handed all of Ryan's friends were about pimping the thing out on podcasts, in articles, and through social media. You couldn't go a day without a major outlet reminding you of the project, and it felt really, really gross.

This was written before it funded, when it looked like it was going to come up short: http://stupidgamer.com/2012/05/08/re...d-to-pitch-in/

And yes, this was a project that the gaming industry decided that we needed to fund. It was almost like supporting the project was equated with supporting Shacknews, IGN, Joystiq, Kotaku, etc.

[crazygambit]

I don't think this is a legitimate concern. Kickstarter will never be useful for anything more than small to small-medium tier stuff, mostly indie devs and tiny studios. It will probably get little to no use for console games, outside something like XBLIG. The main reason is that it's just not possible to secure the type of funding that the traditional model provides. So it's never going to replace it outright because most of the games you're going to see come from Kickstarter are targeting significantly smaller audiences that games made with traditional funding.

I disagree. Kickstarted can be used as a complementary revenue stream for big games as well. It's cheap and brilliant at the same time.

You essentially use Kickstarter to gain pre-orders for a soon to launch game. The 7% commission is usually much cheaper than traditional outlets and you can have the more expensive tiers which are essentially free money for the devs/publishers that otherwise wouldn't be available by any other method. Just set the funding amount low enough that you're guaranteed to hit it and you're golden.

Much like they did with Xenonauts. And it can be replicated for pretty much any other release. It's way better than doing collector editions and going forward not doing it is just leaving money on the table.

[methane47]

Double Fine certainly can scale up, and explained pretty much exactly how they will. It was especially easy for them since they didn't even have a game concept until after the kickstarter ended, and they have a documentary they could spend more money on making fancier. A breakdown from the Double Fine forums:

Double Fine is spending THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS on the DOCUMENTARY?!

My goodness. Seems like a waste to me.

[butter_stick]

Double Fine is spending THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS on the DOCUMENTARY?! My goodness. Seems like a waste to me.

Nice work if you can get it.

[mclem]

Double Fine is spending THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS on the DOCUMENTARY?! My goodness. Seems like a waste to me.

The documentary is awesome, and note that the original $100k was *bare bones* coverage. Three times 'bare bones' seems reasonable for the amount of revenue they eventually got.

[ZombieSupaStar]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

I like dis junior.

[Htown]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

This kid's got moxie.

[methane47]

The documentary is awesome, and note that the original $100k was *bare bones* coverage. Three times 'bare bones' seems reasonable for the amount of revenue they eventually got.

Three times bare bones?

I think its a little ridiculous that the documentary is going to cost more than the original budget of the Game.

Increased costs went to
- Increased travel time because of 1 yr dev time instead of 6 months
- Buying new equipment.
- Buying music.

So from 100,000 to $393,964 (which is actually 4 times the cost)

Why cant they use their existing equipment Which looks great from all the vids I've seen.
Why cant they not get super expensive music? Do you really need a brand new score for a video game documentary?
6 months extra of people sitting behind desks doing work?

I would prefer they put that money into the game.


Budget seems excessive to me. Throwing the money around a bit if you ask me. It would be terrible if they don't meet budget and time constraints...

[B_Rik_Schitthaus]

Budget seems excessive to me. Throwing the money around a bit if you ask me. It would be terrible if they don't meet budget and time constraints...

The pitch had two parts to it, when they then vastly exceed their goal it would make sense to increase the quality and size of both parts.
The docu is a massive positive and they are doing right it making it as good as they can.

[John Rabbit]

how did we spend 19 pages arguing whether or not it's okay for people to spend their money on whatever they want?

[Hellsing321]

Double Fine is spending THREE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS on the DOCUMENTARY?! My goodness. Seems like a waste to me.

The first two episodes(and some bonus videos) have been awesome so far so I'd say its money well spent.

[polyh3dron]

So swagger jacking Carles' blogging style is now a thing.

[plagiarize]

I would prefer they put that money into the game.

did you put into the Kickstarter before or after they went over the initial target? they were very upfront that whatever money went in over the original target would be split between the game and the documentary.

the documentary has been great so far and it was always part of the intitial funding target and always part of the plan for any overage.

[Shadow Hog]

I tried to get the mouseover text before realizing that won't work.

Allow me to kinda/sorta fix that for you.

"If you pledge more than $50 you'll get on the VIP and have first dibs on a slot on ANY of the pledge levels in the actual campaign."

[methane47]

The first two episodes(and some bonus videos) have been awesome so far so I'd say its money well spent.

I didn't say that they would be bad.

All i was saying is that... 2PP's productions were also good before they got their budget upped 400%.

I didn't think it was so necessary, what with the new equipment and brand new music.

I was just surprised that that budget grew by so much.

[Pachterballs]

DFA KS 3 million isn't 3 million to make the game. The budget is probably 1.3 million (yes pulling it outta my ass) and then profit. DFA probably funded 2-3 games in all honesty.

say 1.5 million in the bank as reserve collecting interest? Not bad.

[Emitan]

DFA KS 3 million isn't 3 million to make the game. The budget is probably 1.3 million (yes pulling it outta my ass) and then profit. DFA probably funded 2-3 games in all honesty. say 1.5 million in the bank as reserve collecting interest? Not bad.

Uhhh... why? They were given 3 million to make the game. Why would they not use that 3 million? Why would they commit what's basically fraud when even copy they sell is pure profit?

[butter_stick]

Uhhh... why? They were given 3 million to make the game. Why would they not use that 3 million? Why would they commit what's basically fraud when even copy they sell is pure profit?

Kickstarters are shady.

[Polk]

DFA KS 3 million isn't 3 million to make the game. The budget is probably 1.3 million (yes pulling it outta my ass) and then profit. DFA probably funded 2-3 games in all honesty. say 1.5 million in the bank as reserve collecting interest? Not bad.

Now that would be shady.
People pledged money for DFA and for DFA only.

[krystallinity]

Now that would be shady. People pledged money for DFA and for DFA only.

Besides the money for the documentary, and overhead costs, Double Fine has explicitly stated that they're putting the rest of the money into that one project.

If word ever got out that Double Fine spent the money on something else, the community would be in an uproar. It's really not in Double Fine's best interest to risk something like that, and they know it.

[NichM]

DFA KS 3 million isn't 3 million to make the game. The budget is probably 1.3 million (yes pulling it outta my ass) and then profit. DFA probably funded 2-3 games in all honesty. say 1.5 million in the bank as reserve collecting interest? Not bad.

Kickstarters are shady.

It's awesome how Pachterballs' totally unsubstantiated (and kind of offensive, if I worked at DF) claim is all the "evidence" butter_stick needs to "prove" his "point."

[morningbus]

Kickstarters are shady.

But why are they shady?

And then more questions in sequence.

Love me Gaf.

[Emitan]

It's awesome how Pachterballs' totally unsubstantiated (and kind of offensive, if I worked at DF) claim is all the "evidence" butter_stick needs to "prove" his "point."

He's trolling his own thread.

[El Sloth]

Poor scarves. They get so much hate. All they wanna do is keep your neck warm and, in certain cases, keep sand out.


I don't see why people get their panties in such a twist over Kickstarter. People pay money for stupid stuff all the damn time.

So, you think people giving money to Kickstarter projects that may never actually produce something is stupid. Cool. That's their problem. They have every right to spend their money on whatever the hell they want.

Personally, I like Kickstarter. But you obviously have to use your brain and look at the people behind the projects their past work if any and using the information available to decide whether or not they seem trustworthy.

[NervousXtian]

Poor scarves. They get so much hate. All they wanna do is keep your neck warm and, in certain cases, keep sand out.

Well, at least Payton can afford to get some heat up in that there office now. You know, Seattle get's cold.


(not today though, it's fucking beautiful)

[Pachterballs]

Some indie games on kickstarter look ok but then they ask for $15 or $20 retail and give you a steam code only. Taking the risk they even make it onto steam but the game during a sale most likely drop 30% or 50% so you are already out of pocket and taking a risk , then they may even end up in an indie bundle so you are shooting yourself in the foot twice. Would be much smarter to value the game cheaper like many alphas do on desura or other formats and make the game $5 or similar just to get the money to fund the project.

It's awesome how Pachterballs' totally unsubstantiated (and kind of offensive, if I worked at DF) claim is all the "evidence" butter_stick needs to "prove" his "point."

The original $$$ value for DFA is 400k, they got 3 million. Tim would be stupid to

A) throw that all into a game.
B) not put it in a bank n collect some interest. They don't need it right away.

I didn't assert that what my said was fact (what with the pulling it outta my Ass caveat).

Settle down fool

[Emitan]

Committing fraud is the smart thing to do!

[Pachterballs]

Define fraud. There's no contract here.

[Emitan]

Where is the evidence that he's even doing this? You're making shit up and defending it for no fucking reason.

[Pachterballs]

It's called a supposition. I'm not saying that's whatdfa/ Tim is doing

You're the one that threw in the word fraud and then won't address my question

[Emitan]

It's called a supposition.

It's called

Stupid alarmist bullshit

[NichM]

Define fraud. There's no contract here.

Here is a quote from Kickstarter's Project Guidelines, which despite being called "guidelines" are rules hard enough that projects which violate them will not be allowed to launch.

1. Funding for projects only. A project has a clear goal, like making an album, a book, or a work of art. A project will eventually be completed, and something will be produced by it. A project is not open-ended. Starting a business, for example, does not qualify as a project.

The money you receive for a project must go to that project. If your project is defined as a series of games, as with Jane Jensen's KS, then you can use it for a series of games. If it's defined as one game, you can use it for one game. If it's defined as a game and a documentary, the money is for that game and that documentary.

I find that most Kickstarter detractors have never bothered to give the site's terms of service or guidelines even a cursory look and am not surprised that you prove yourself no exception.

[NervousXtian]

It's called a supposition. I'm not saying that's whatdfa/ Tim is doing You're the one that threw in the word fraud and then won't address my question

..and this guy has the audacity to say I'm an idiot.

[Emitan]

https://twitter.com/#!/TimOfLegend/s...67628915613697

[zendavis]

I think what brings out the detractors is a basic reversal of what capitalism is supposed to be about. The basic premise of commerce is the idea of exchanging money for goods. However commerce is not really what Kickstarter is aimed at achieving (although it certainly plays a large part).

Kickstarter is inherently a mechanism for individuals to fund projects that may otherwise not have been funded. That's all there is to it. The rewards are just meant to sweeten the incentive to give money, but overall, they're not the point. The point is to help teams and individuals create artistic goods that would not otherwise exist.

Well this makes people suspicious. They've spent their entire lives dealing with the legacy version of commerce that such a new way of doing business goes against everything they've ever known. You don't Kickstart a project to BUY a project. You kickstart it to HELP a project come to fruition. Now others may certainly see it in other ways but that's my perspective on it and that's why some people have a hard time coming to terms with it.

It's inherently socialized game development. And anything socialized is a scam. Just because one guy might be a scam artist and make off with your good will - it doesn't mean everyone will. And just because one person managed to take advantage of the system - so what? The overall good is worth it. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of legitimate individuals who will make what you want them to make if enough people are like-minded and want to see it happen. If you can't bring yourself to trust these individuals, that's fair. But I think it's important to understand why people do reach out and give millions to DFA or 500k to Republique.

[Pachterballs]

..and this guy has the audacity to say I'm an idiot.

your tag says you are. And you are.

[Fersis]

Why can't you make threads any longer? How does that make you feel? Do you feel like you deserve to make threads still? If you could make a new thread, what would you discuss? How are you going to spend all of your additional free time?

Good stuff.