[kame-sennin]

Suing for copyright grounds is horse shit and I don't know how they won those prior suits. The courts have to stop caving to corporations.

[Zhengi]

There's like 8 seconds of frozen camera staring at the back of an Acura SUV while the Avengers run around it...but the shot starts by staring at the car before they appear on screen and holds well after they are off screen. SUCKS!!!!

Then that product placement worked for you. I didn't even notice it.

[massoluk]

Of all the recent Marvel's films, I only remembered the Verizon phone in Iron Man. Everything else sounds like a money badly spent, cause I honestly don't noticed it.

[The Technomancer]

Of all the recent Marvel's films, I only remembered the Verizon phone in Iron Man. Everything else sounds like a money badly spent, cause I honestly don't noticed it.

Not necessarily, product placement can just be about establishing a product in your mental vocabulary so that even if you don't notice that they use it you're more used to the idea of seeing it, which might steer you towards it over competitors.

[Marty Chinn]

Cable, now there is some bullshit. Why the hell are there ads on cable?

Because without ads, I bet the cable rates would be even higher.

[Nazgul_Hunter]

What they should do is work with the networks to create an 'Auto Hop' that instead of skipping over 2 minutes of commercials, presents you with, say one 30- or 15- second commercial.
Ad buyers would be sure that you saw their Ad, instead of quickly skipping over it. I hate commercials as much as anyone else, but I don't think OTA network television could sustain itself if people can literally avoid their main revenue stream

[Darkener2]

I don't mind if it looks normal like drinking a can of coke or pepsi and not some made up soda.

[Copernicus]

I'll side with NBC on this.

This is the equivalent of adblocking neogaf.

[Fugu]

What is complete monetization? I assume you mean more then just "paying for things"

I mean paying for everything. A corporation's interest is in making money; their goal is to charge as much for whatever they've got for as much as they can get away with, and other elements of doing business -- like customer service and public relations -- exist only insofar as they help accomplish this goal. Our goal as customers is to pay as little as we can get away with. This relationship, and capitalism as a whole, stops functioning properly when one side loses sight of its goals.

Network TV with commercial breaks is a system that has existed for decades, though. If you pull that revenue out from under them then they're just going to integrate the advertising so deeply into the programming that there's no longer any separation.

If they do that, I'll stop watching network television. Well, actually, I already don't watch network television, so that's a bit of an empty threat I guess.

[MisterHero]

I'll side with NBC on this. This is the equivalent of adblocking neogaf.

NeoGAF doesn't charge for a function to remove ads*, which aren't even time-consuming or annoying. Other websites you might pay for might actually be annoying with pop-ups/pop-unders/auto-play flash clips and such.

*Unless GAFgold does this, I don't know

[nemss]

I cannot wait for the new season of Breaking Bad. I heard there's going to be a new Nissan commercial.

[Community Forum]

nobody is forcing anyone to use Auto Hop... if someone doesn't want to watch commercials, they already aren't going to watch them

[commedieu]

Oh Come on, you guys are using the worst example of product placement in the world. Thats a subway commercial. Not just a guy eating a sandwich while continuing his lines. That entire scene was written just for subway, that is not what I'm talking about.

Getting to use cars for certain scenes, won't hardly matter to the viewer. Eating a real big mac, not mentioning that you're eating a big mac. Using an apple computer, iphone, etc. Product placement(Not scripted commercials) makes way more sense for these guys, considering the alternative is rising piracy, or more expensive services to ignore commercials.

Comedy programming could even get away with abusing it a bit more. It would be lame schtick, but if it all meant less commercials, I have 0 issues with that.

-having a scripted commercial in the middle of the show is bad.
-using a product, placed in the scene, and not acknowledging it, is fine by me.

Still curious to know the margins on costs of product placement. will has to google.

I don't mind if it looks normal like drinking a can of coke or pepsi and not some made up soda.

Right? What is DR.Cola..? Never hear... wait.. what did he say? Damn!

[Copernicus]

NeoGAF doesn't charge for a function to remove ads*, which aren't even time-consuming or annoying. Other websites you might pay for might actually be annoying with pop-ups/pop-unders/auto-play flash clips and such. *Unless GAFgold does this, I don't know

I think you're missing the equivalence.

Gaf = NBC
Ads = Ads
Adblock addon = Tivo commercial skip addon.

It's their direct revenue stream.

[Ninja Scooter]

NeoGAF doesn't charge for a function to remove ads*, which aren't even time-consuming or annoying. Other websites you might pay for might actually be annoying with pop-ups/pop-unders/auto-play flash clips and such. *Unless GAFgold does this, I don't know

the networks aren't charging for a function to remove ads either, the cable companies are. The networks' beef is with them, hence the entire premise of this article. Networks are saying "We have a symbiotic relationship with you (the cable companies) and we don't appreciate that you are screwing us with this hop feature"

[Marty Chinn]

Oh Come on, you guys are using the worst example of product placement in the world. Thats a subway commercial. Not just a guy eating a sandwich while continuing his lines. That entire scene was written just for subway, that is not what I'm talking about. Getting to use cars for certain scenes, won't hardly matter to the viewer. Eating a real big mac, not mentioning that you're eating a big mac. Using an apple computer, iphone, etc. Product placement(Not scripted commercials) makes way more sense for these guys, considering the alternative is rising piracy, or more expensive services to ignore commercials. Comedy programming could even get away with abusing it a bit more. It would be lame schtick, but if it all meant less commercials, I have 0 issues with that. -having a scripted commercial in the middle of the show is bad. -using a product, placed in the scene, and not acknowledging it, is fine by me. Still curious to know the margins on costs of product placement. will has to google. Right? What is DR.Cola..? Never hear... wait.. what did he say? Damn!

The problem with product placement though is you limit your possible revenue to a very narrow sliver of companies and even then, they might not fit every week. Product placement is very limiting and in some ways can impact the show itself. Who wants that? I'd rather have my show independent of trying to find revenue and leave the marketing and advertisers to be its own beast.

[darthbob]

Cable, now there is some bullshit. Why the hell are there ads on cable?

Why are there ads in my magazine? I paid for it!

[Angry Grimace]

Honestly, broadcast TV is a dying model.

But there's got to be some stopgap that doesn't involve just skipping commercials like that. For example, certain sponsors can pay more for a longer ad that enables the "skip commercials" feature.

Just skipping the commercials themselves is not a viable option because advertisers aren't going to pay to advertise on programs where you can totally remove them from sight and mind.

[Ninja Scooter]

The problem with product placement though is you limit your possible revenue to a very narrow sliver of companies and even then, they might not fit every week. Product placement is very limiting and in some ways can impact the show itself. Who wants that? I'd rather have my show independent of trying to find revenue and leave the marketing and advertisers to be its own beast.

also, how would a period show (say, if Game of Thrones or Spartacus, minus the graphic sex of course) were being made for a network? What are you going to have? Tywin Lannister having his cup bearer bring him a Coke Zero? The answer to this is going to be intrusive pop up ads taking up the bottom banner of the screen, and you guys are going to HATE that far more than having to fast forward or sit through a few 90 second commercials. I'd rather just have ad breaks.

[MisterHero]

the networks aren't charging for a function to remove ads either, the cable companies are. The networks' beef is with them, hence the entire premise of this article. Networks are saying "We have a symbiotic relationship with you (the cable companies) and we don't appreciate that you are screwing us with this hop feature"

Like I said, I have to pay to recieve any sort of TV. For me, they aren't very different from other channels these days.

Maybe you're right though, that there are more people who just have the major networks (and not much else) and they rely on those people.

[Suairyu]

lets just sue instead of learning to adapt to what the market wants

Adapting to this thing would require them to plaster ads over the top of the video content itself. Advert breaks are super important for all privately-run tv channels.

[Of All Trades]

It's not simplified at all.

It is because

The group of people that give money to Dish Network and other satellite providers in order for them to continue operating and profit ("the customers") are people like you. The thing that they buy is the right to see content that they value. They value content without advertising more than content with advertising, and so Dish Network is incentivized to give them the things they value.

What customers in this example want is content created in an ad-supported framework, but without having to experience the ads. If customers valued no-ad-content over ad-content then channels like PBS would be far, far more popular.

And before the BBC gets brought up, they (and PBS) directly benefit from the ad-supported framework in that the talent pool is much, much richer than it would be otherwise, allowing for spillover.

[poppabk]

Makes me wonder why services like hulu have been so forgotten and mistreated by networks. You are guaranteed that the ad will play and you can tailor ads to the user.
Instead they are going the premium model and have gutted the unplus version of hulu.

[JoseJX]

Ahahahaha calling advertisements 'joint programming.' As if people maybe tune in to see the ads, and not the show. Charming. I hope somebody puts out a third-party DVR that can do this for all channels, not just broadcast channels, and that takes away the bullshit 24-hour requirement.

My HDHRP Cable Card recorder along with my MythTV/Linux based DVR does automatic commercial skipping. I don't even have to press buttons! I figure that since I pay a premium for cable and buy box sets when the shows come out on BR/DVD, I'm not hurting anyone by aggressively avoiding commercials. I'm sure the networks think otherwise, but whatever. :/

[Milabrega]

The only ad placement that stuck out to me in Avengers was the Jansport Bus stop poster and the Farmers or State Farm insurance logo on a banner on a building. Both in the same scene with screen time and angles to clearly showcase them.

[bengraven]

I hate that you can't fast-forward through On Demand commercials. It's the reason I never watched Terra Nova on my TV. Because the entire 2 hour show on demand retained ALL the commercials. After the first seven minute commercial break I was like "fuck this..."

[GungHo]

The Ford product placement on 24 was awful

No. It was great. It let you know who the good guys were. All the bad guys drove Chevys. It's like white hats and black hats.

[nVidiot_Whore]

Dish Network relies on content provided to them by partners. These partners pay for that content using advertising.

They also rely on customers who pay for their service, which is essentially an aggregate of the "services" Dish Network buys from various networks.

A "advertising hop" feature is a bit like biting the hand that feeds the hand that feeds you... for the sake of your other hand, that will eventually have a lot less to eat if you do enough biting of the hand that feeds your other hand.

I'm sure my perfectly clear point will end this thread.

[Saadster]

I already skip through all the commercials on my recorded shows on my DVR manually. As does everyone else. Lol if they think people watch commercials in recorded shows.

This feature just makes it easier for us to do what we originally intended to do anyway. So suck it.

[ReBurn]

Sometimes I watch commercials in recorded shows. Sometimes commercials are good.

[Ninja Scooter]

I already skip through all the commercials on my recorded shows on my DVR manually. As does everyone else. Lol if they think people watch commercials in recorded shows. This feature just makes it easier for us to do what we originally intended to do anyway. So suck it.

Yeah I'm sure you'll be saying this when half your screen is taken up by a giant Tide ad.

[Meier]

Wow, that sounds amazing. The commercials are annoying (but get in your head) since I fucking HATE the Boston accent and if they advertise this feature I completely missed it. I was wondering WTF the name meant.

DA HOPPA!

[impirius]

Fast-forwarding is copyright infringement because... ?

[Duki]

lol complaining about this auto hop thing specifically is missing the forest for the trees

auto hop is no different than skipping ads by fast forwarding them on dvr, something which has already permeated society generally and wont go away

besides, if the market doesnt want the business model anymore, and the consumer's preferred business model is errything free erryday, its the god damn companies' job to find a new, sustainable business model that the market is actually willing to accept, not just to say yo we cant do free so we got to keep doing this even tho no one wants this anymore plz sue

i mean what the fuck are they payin these people for if they have no new ideas anymore

get new ceos or something

Fast-forwarding is copyright infringement because... ?

well if the courts wanted to suck their dick a hell of a lot, they could agree that the program as intended to be viewed is both ads and the tv show together, meaning cutting out ads completely is altering the creative work which you cant do

but thats a laughably unconvincing position

[Al-ibn Kermit]

lets just sue instead of learning to adapt to what the market wants

Adapting to the YouTube model of unskippable ads or ads that pop up on the screen that you have to manually close?

[Copernicus]

I Tivo commercializes that three second wait in between the seeking by popping up static ads.

That would be amazing.

[[KoRp]Jazzman]

I see where they are coming from, and I agree even if it pretty stupid since no one watches them intentionally anymore either.

I just wish to god my PVR had the "Skip" feature instead of FF only.... God I loved watching taped football games on Direct TV and hitting skip after each play to jump right to the start of the next one. Also you didnt have the BS over fastforwarding where you ruin the show.

I've got a real bad case of First World Problems :(

[Al-ibn Kermit]

I Tivo commercializes that three second wait in between the seeking by popping up static ads. That would be amazing.

That has to be illegal, somehow.

[Deified Data]

This is dumb - you can skip the ads anyway, auto hop just makes it more convenient. Guy has no idea what he's pissed off about.

[nVidiot_Whore]

lol complaining about this auto hop thing specifically is missing the forest for the trees auto hop is no different than skipping ads by fast forwarding them on dvr, something which has already permeated society generally and wont go away

It's actually not.

Commercials are now designed to be recognized by people who are fast-forwarding through those commercials at DVR speeds.. they've found that the fast-forwarder might actually retain more about commericals than someone not fastforwarding.. who might not even look at the TV.. might sit there on their phone, or even leave the room while commercials are on.

At the very least, fast-forwarders are probably catching the tail-end of the last commercial before the show comes back on screen.. maybe even 2-3 times with some failed fastforwarding/re-winding.. LOL.

I'll try to find a link to the study that learned me on that..

But it does make some sense.. with the plethora of digital distractions laying around the house, people aren't sitting around watching commercials even if they aren't fast-forwarding them.

[SUPREME1]

This is dumb - you can skip the ads anyway, auto hop just makes it more convenient. Guy has no idea what he's pissed off about.

He's willing to bet people are too lazy to skip the ads themselves since it means lifting a finger.

[frankie_baby]

Without ads there'd be next to no TV, yes I fast forward through ads on almost everything I watch but would I expect my box to have a feature to make that automatic? NO, would I be too annoyed if the opposite was true and they forced you to watch the ads? No not really

[Clint Beastwood]

Didn't Family Guy do a skit where Peter only watches TV for the commercials?

I'm guessing this guy thought that was accurate.

[BenjaminBirdie]

A guy relying on advertising is mad you can skip ads? Good stuff.

"A guy" should be replaced by "an entire medium that would not exist without advertising, as television programs are designed primarily as a commercial delivery mechanism."

[Mac the KNife]

"A guy" should be replaced by "an entire medium that would not exist without advertising, as television programs are designed primarily as a commercial delivery mechanism."

If consumers aren't interested in watching advertisements, and advertisements are the primary source of your company's income, it's time to change your business model.

[Marty Chinn]

It's crazy that people don't understand that the commercials pay for the shows that they love. You can't get rid of them and think everything will be great.

[ReBurn]

It's crazy that people don't understand that the commercials pay for the shows that they love. You can't get rid of them and think everything will be great.

Sure you can. Cognitive dissonance is one of my specialties.

[nVidiot_Whore]

If consumers aren't interested in watching advertisements, and advertisements are the primary source of your company's income, it's time to change your business model.

Which would likely include spending way less money on content, and producing far less content.

The "business model" gripes in threads like this sort of kill me.. the same for any other industry discussion where people are griping at executives.

"I'm not going to stop pirating, CHANGE YOUR BUSINESS MODEL!"

Then it's.. "OMG, PRODUCT PLACEMENTS!! WHAT IS THIS!!"

It's essentially technology allowing consumers to not participate in business models at all.

These new "business models" just aren't bringing in the revenue that the old ones do.. so the problem is still there.

Technology is replacing revenue, and less spending will occur.

Nothing terrible about that.. I somewhat welcome it.. but it is the damned truth.

TV advertising is even what funds a pretty good chunk of the FILM INDUSTRY too.. not just television.

[AlexMogil]

I agree with this, actually. I mean, if we take out their ability to do commercials, we could start getting popup ads for Tide and shit during the shows.

Shovin' Buddies!

[KHarvey16]

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only person that considers commercials an incredibly small price to pay for free or subsidized content.