[CorvoSol]

Carlie.
Cooper.

[Parallax]

I am not sure how any of the characters you listed are anything more than superficially similar in personality. Look depends on the artist, but in theory there should be a pretty big difference in the body type of someone like Captain America and someone like Spider-man. Good artists reflect that difference.

Exactly. Despite their builds being similar, they really aren't at all. There's varying characters between all of them. (Especially the green lanterns since there are so many.) The only way someone could come to that conclusion is by not reading the books the characters come from, and simply judge them by how they look.

[maomaoIYP]

Some manga originally had colored pages (usually 2-3 pages at the start of certain chapters) but they've not been reprinted that way in any legal way. Makes me quite sad.

Some of them are.

I don't like american comics having their characters as a franchise owned by a company. There's no uniformity in story or art. And it never ends.

Also, the odd fascination with superheroes and super powers.

[kswiston]

Some of them are. I don't like american comics having their characters as a franchise owned by a company. There's no uniformity in story or art. And it never ends. Also, the odd fascination with superheroes and super powers.

Again, there are more to American Comics than super heroes. Go read Essex County or Scalped. Nothing to do with superheroes or super powers, both have consistent art, and both end. In fact, both end a hell of a lot sooner than most manga series do.

Yes, the most popular American comics feature superheroes, but there are still hundreds of books past and present that don't.

[Parallax]

Also, the odd fascination with superheroes and super powers.

The same tropes exist within shonen series like crazy. Both markets have to catch up to european comics in that regard.

[maomaoIYP]

The same tropes exist within shonen series like crazy. Both markets have to catch up to european comics in that regard.

They do, I admit, and I feel that the Shonen superhero crap is as just as terrible to read (Bleach, One Piece, etc are all shit). But they aren't as dominating in the Japanese market as compared to Marvel and DC's superhero stuff. There tends to be way more stories about ordinary people in extraordinary situations.

Out of curiosity, are there american equivalents to say, sport comics or chess comics or even cooking comics?

[HK-47]

Silver Age masturbating. Mostly fanboy writers that can't let go of their childhoods, so they just HAVE to show everyone how awesome it was.

lol this irks me a bit too

[boinx]

Bad art.

[zoukka]

Superheroes.

[kame-sennin]

The absolute worst thing about comics is how the two major publishers in the industry treat the creators behind the work. Imagine an Apple with Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak not profiting from it. Imagine a Microsoft without Bill Gates profiting from it. That's the Big Two of the American comic book industry. “Don’t worry if I write rhymes. I write checks.” Who Needs The Avengers? “Avengers—Dissemble!” What Long-Term Service Did Stan Lee Provide That Jack Kirby Didn’t (or Couldn’t)? The creator’s position viewed through the lens of Alan Moore It's the absolute worst fucking thing about the American comic book industry.

(a) Jack signed no contracts originally, as the real work was done in the 1960s; (b) Jack worked in an industry that not only discouraged freelancers having legal representation, but actually shut out and black-balled freelancers who dared to mention either agents or lawyers (such was the case, still, when I entered the field in 1977, with the notable exception of Mike Friedrich being the first agent Marvel and DC tolerated, since Mike had written for both companies prior to establishing his agency); (c) Martin Goodman (prior to his selling off Marvel at the end of the 1960s) and Marvel used coercion, duress, and all manner of strong-arming and bullying in dealing with Jack; (d) Jack was terrified of not working, and the field was very limited in terms of alternatives in the 1960s.

What. The. Fuck.

[EchosMyron1]

The caustic tropes caused by continuous continuity. The fact that the superhero genre overshadows everything in American comics. The never ending deluge of shitty, fractured crossover events.

This a million times over. When people even discuss comics it's almost a foregone conclusion that they mean super-hero comics.

People need to branch out, I was lucky enough to find super-hero comics unshakably corny when I first got into the medium. The focus on the super-hero genre has most people denying a lot of the best comics around.

At least The Walking Dead is hitting it big. That's only scratching the surface, though. There are so many awesome non super-hero comics being put out on smaller publishers or entirely independently on the internet. Even some cooler super hero's without decades of baggage. Like Rex Libris, the interstellar librarian that travels time and space to collect overdue library fee's.

Also, the crippling dependence on cross-medium cosign's to elevate a comic series' status. Not that it's the intent, but often times it's the only way some of these comics are getting noticed.

[Mumei]

Bad lettering when they just put seemingly random words in bold that don't really follow regular kinds of emphasis.

Oh, this.

I have never understood the logic behind what words are emphasized, and the sheer rate at which they are emphasized. It's just absurd.

Even some cooler super hero's without decades of baggage. Like Rex Libris, the interstellar librarian that travels time and space to collect overdue library fee's.

This looks great!

And my library has a copy. :D

[Log4Girlz]

I don't really like Western Comics, there are very few stories I can follow or care about.

Main problems:

Everyone exists in the same universe no matter what. Many superheroes were created in isolation, but in western comics everyone has to exist together. Iron Man and a magical god Thor? Yes. Spiderman and Ghost Rider? Yep. Superman and Batman? Yep.

I prefer how Manga keeps its universes mostly separate with rare cross overs that are only fun. This is more in line with how comics are handled in the movies.

Constant changing of writers and art style. Its typical in Manga to have 1 writer credited with a line, no matter how long it lasts so that the story remains consistent. Art is done via the model system. You remain on model and do not inject too much personal style if you are helping the main artist. This is very similar to the very old comics and how cartoons are done.

I find most western comics infantile, but if I ever check out a Manga recommended by friends, I enjoy it vastly more. So its not a problem with the medium, but rather, how the medium is handled.

[EchosMyron1]

I don't really like Western Comics, there are very few stories I can follow or care about. Main problems: Everyone exists in the same universe no matter what. Many superheroes were created in isolation, but in western comics everyone has to exist together. Iron Man and a magical god Thor? Yes. Spiderman and Ghost Rider? Yep. Superman and Batman? Yep. I prefer how Manga keeps its universes mostly separate with rare cross overs that are only fun. This is more in line with how comics are handled in the movies. Constant changing of writers and art style. Its typical in Manga to have 1 writer credited with a line, no matter how long it lasts so that the story remains consistent. Art is done via the model system. You remain on model and do not inject too much personal style if you are helping the main artist. This is very similar to the very old comics and how cartoons are done. I find most western comics infantile, but if I ever check out a Manga recommended by friends, I enjoy it vastly more. So its not a problem with the medium, but rather, how the medium is handled.

See it's a shame that to many people Western/American Comics = Super Hero comics. It's actually more than a shame, that perception is a huge problem.

[Freshmaker]

See it's a shame that to many people Western/American Comics = Super Hero comics. It's actually more than a shame, that perception is a huge problem.

That's because the other stuff isn't interesting.

[Discotheque]

turning the OT into the comic book forums or something.

[Gordon Fearman]

See it's a shame that to many people Western/American Comics = Super Hero comics. It's actually more than a shame, that perception is a huge problem.

It's a shame that people assume Super Hero comics = Big 2 Super Hero comics. There's a bunch of super hero comics that's not Marvel or DC. Watchmen is probably the most popular but there's also amazing stuff like Atomic Robo.

[Monocle]

Bad art, dumb writing.

[HK-47]

It's a shame that people assume Super Hero comics = Big 2 Super Hero comics. There's a bunch of super hero comics that's not Marvel or DC. Watchmen is probably the most popular but there's also amazing stuff like Atomic Robo.

Actually...Watchmen is DC.

[Lissar]

See it's a shame that to many people Western/American Comics = Super Hero comics. It's actually more than a shame, that perception is a huge problem.

This is what I was thinking! I always go into comic threads thinking "Comics~" and then realize everyone is only discussing superhero comics and I can't relate. :<

[Prax]

I really like the IDEA of superhero comics in the west, but here are my issues with them:

- long ongoing "continuity" due to heroes/icons being company-owned leading to terrible/convoluted "stories" that pretty much ruins the character in the process
- inconsistency due to the crazy amount of writers + editors + pencillers + inkers + colourists + letterers involved in the whole process --and then people get replaced or change around constantly
- power arms race between characters that goes to levels of stupid (tied into non-ending continuity problem)
- the WAY they BOLD or EMPHASIZE WORDS in A very DUMB fashion that sometimes makes no sense
- for whatever reason, the ones I've read seemed to have terrible writing or pacing or paneling -- it's really jarring when I can't figure out what the heck is going on because a lot of superhero comickers don't like employing proper exposition sequences?
- I don't like ugly art or awful character and costume designs -- I am also not truly a fan of all the spandex, shiny everything, and crazy pumped up look -- In fact, I have a beef with mainstream Marvel / DC "comic book style" and kind of wish for more variation
- too expensive and takes too long for subsequent issues that amount to about 15-20 pages only
- covers that look nothing like the interior art because a special guest artist drew them or some other misleading pandering


I generally just have more issues with mainstream western comics than manga because I feel I get more bang for my buck, usually the pacing is much better (because more pages and exposition?), and even if it's trite or cheesy writing, I'm not being BOLDED to death. I think it helps that manga is stylized in a way that helps with suspension of disbelief compared to western comics that tend towards much more realism with the art but lots of jarring (or stupid) ideas/concepts that try to take themselves too seriously.

I like that most manga series (of the adventure/hero type) END or work toward an actual end. I see little to no plot progression with most western hero comics (which reminds me of the same feelings of extreme boredom/frustration that many MMORPGs give me, since it just becomes cyclical grinding at some point lol).

[jaxword]

turning the OT into the comic book forums or something.

Evilore should create a Comicbook, cartoon/anime, and general drawing forum.

It'd work.

[EchosMyron1]

That's because the other stuff isn't interesting.

Even if that's how you feel; do you actually think that's the reason? That everyone thinks non superhero comics are universally uninteresting? How many weeks has The Walking Dead been on the NY Times graphic novel best seller list? it's 56 for Hard Cover and 43 for paperback

It's a shame that people assume Super Hero comics = Big 2 Super Hero comics. There's a bunch of super hero comics that's not Marvel or DC. Watchmen is probably the most popular but there's also amazing stuff like Atomic Robo.

Watchmen is DC. Also, I think most people or at least comic fans are aware of all the more popular Japanese super hero comics and Image stuff.

[sankt-Antonio]

I like that, in DC/Marvel comics, most heros are actually grown-ups.

And nothing will ever be as bad as dragon ball's then issues long tournaments.

[PastorOfMuppets]

Superhero comics from DC and Marvel are the worst things about comics.

Whenever I think about going back to superhero comics, I think of all the idiotic justifications for retcons. They are so shitty, it's not even worth hiding in spoiler text.

Captain America was shot with a bullet that phased him in and out of time. Then inexplicably, his arch nemesis, the Red Skull (the dude who masterminded the plan) takes him out of that time phase and brings him to the present to take control of his body.

Jason Todd, the second Robin after Dick Grayson became Nightwing, was brought back to life because an alternate universe Superman punched a barrier.

After revealing his identity to the public, Spiderman's Aunt May gets shot by a stray bullet meant for him. To rectify this, the Marvel Universe's shitty pastiche of Satan (Mephisto) makes a deal with Spiderman to bring Aunt May back to life and erase his identity from the memories of the people he revealed it to. In return, he must give up his love for Mary Jane.

[Black_Stride]

Worst thing about comics 100 Bullets ended.
Now my life is pointless.

[Bufbaf]

Superhero comics from DC and Marvel are the worst things about comics. Whenever I think about going back to superhero comics, I think of all the idiotic justifications for retcons. They are so shitty, it's not even worth hiding in spoiler text. Captain America was shot with a bullet that phased him in and out of time. Then inexplicably, his arch nemesis, the Red Skull (the dude who masterminded the plan) takes him out of that time phase and brings him to the present to take control of his body. Jason Todd, the second Robin after Dick Grayson became Nightwing, was brought back to life because an alternate universe Superman punched a barrier. After revealing his identity to the public, Spiderman's Aunt May gets shot by a stray bullet meant for him. To rectify this, the Marvel Universe's shitty pastiche of Satan (Mephisto) makes a deal with Spiderman to bring Aunt May back to life and erase his identity from the memories of the people he revealed it to. In return, he must give up his love for Mary Jane.

To be honest, all these events do sound amazingly awesome and badass if you just write them down like this. I know they aren't.

Fucking OMD :(

[EchosMyron1]

covers that look nothing like the interior art because a special guest artist drew them or some other misleading pandering

This is always a bummer, those Ratchet & Clank comics Wildstorm published before they went defunct were among the worst offenders of this.

How Ratchet & Clank looked on the cover:


How they looked in the comic:

[IrishNinja]

death meaning nothing. shits on continuity.
inversely: using character deaths as a landmark in every event, like the 90's did with costume changes. it's not really a Seige until Ares is ripped open! etc etc

also, john romita Jr being given big team books to draw. you were great on single-character shit in the day like DD and spidey, go back.

Frank Quietly

really?

Most of the decisions and temporal crises' never matter. Ever. Ever.

yeah, this. like a drastic new change in your character of choice? niche or not, youd better buy the trade, cause it likely won't stay.
i'm almost grateful Daredevil hasn't had a mephisto deus-ex for his identity yet.

turning the OT into the comic book forums or something.

quiet, you

Worst thing about comics is how 100 Bullets ended.

fixed, haha

[KO Traveling Hobo]

I feel like I should pass on this gift that GAF once gave to me.

[Metal B]

Every character looking and acting the same. Seriously, the following: Captain America Batman Superman Iron Man Spider-Man Iron-Fist Hawkeye Green Lantern Daredevil

Isn't Spider-Man normally portrayed as being thin?

I also hate that the stories go on forever. A lot of american comicbook heros outlive people, who read them as a kid. That why i love to read Manga sometimes much more, because they have an actual ending.

[ZoddGutts]

Manga isn't better just because they are self contained.

Pretty much. Points to Shoujo and Shonen manga, most of it is shit.

[Fuzzy]

Bad art.

I agree. Ms Marvel and Cap look like shit and they made Thor's face look like a horse's head.

[favouriteflavour]

I agree. Ms Marvel and Cap look like shit and they made Thor's face look like a horse's head.

That is a horses head... It is a thorse.

[Bufbaf]

That is a horses head... It is a thorse.

Pret-ty sure that was intentional ;)

[Aaron]

Most have absurd situations they play absolutely seriously, mixed with highschool level drama that would make a CW writer cringe. Not enough humor would be my biggest problem.

[jaxword]

Isn't Spider-Man normally portrayed as being thin?

Yeah, Thor and Cap have bodybuilder bodies. Same with Superman-types.

Spiderman's supposed to be a wirey triple-jointed type. I suppose you could say the closest athletic body would be swimmers, who have to be as lean as possible while still having tight muscles.

Of course, depending on the artist, they give them all the generic bodybuilder body. Even Iron man gets it when he's out of armor, and he's supposed to be an alcoholic party animal. Hell, even PROFESSOR X gets a perfect body whenever he's naked/tortured/whatever, when he should be a bit out of shape for obvious reasons.

[Criminal Upper]

For me, it was this:

[Parallax]

That is a horses head... It is a thorse.

His name is beta ray bill. And he is awesome.

[Salvor.Hardin]

Frank Quietly

You crazy bastard.

[Haly]

Comics have a unique narrative tradition with certain features (retcons, resets) that would be unacceptable/unheard of in any other storytelling medium. But it's accepted by the fans because they're used to it, and they are the only demographic that actually buys comics so the big names (Marvel/DC) have no reason to change the way they do things.

Not that non-traditional storytelling methods are necessarily a bad thing, but from my point of view all the retcons, continuity tie-ins, etc., seem like marketing gimmicks rather than genuine attempts to tell a better story. That's what I hate most about comics, I think. Too much of it is governed by marketing.

[Parallax]

You crazy bastard.

He looks like the early stages of bizarro are kicking in

[Salvor.Hardin]

He looks like the early stages of bizarro are kicking in

He's been sun poisoned. The colourist, Jamie Grant, owns the famous Hope Street Studio in Glasgow where Quitely works.

[Pylon_Trooper]

Most have absurd situations they play absolutely seriously, mixed with highschool level drama that would make a CW writer cringe. Not enough humor would be my biggest problem.

That's why I like the 2000AD franchises...sometimes, the art might be horrendous, and sometimes, the stories pulpy crap...but damn there's some dark humour coursing through a lot of it.

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Shitty writing and a terrible over-reliance on established characters/series.

It's similar to how the videogame industry has become so reliant on trotting out sequel after sequel, but it's even worse with comics. It's just not appealing for someone trying to get into comics.

Also, there's no way I'll ever get into comics since they tend to do the same ol' characters time and time again, and as a result there's no point getting engaged in a character's struggles since it's so common for them to just be written back to life as a clone or some nonsense.

Edit:

Most have absurd situations they play absolutely seriously, mixed with highschool level drama that would make a CW writer cringe. Not enough humor would be my biggest problem.

This too. I tried reading Civil War and found myself giggling at how seriously it took a mind-bogglingly stupid story.

[Musha_Soturi]

For me it's the fact that however much I love browsing in comic book shops, I end up buying nearly everything online because it's half the price. Why do the stores have to be so much more expensive?

[Ikael]

- Over reliance in super hero franchises. God bless The Boys.

- Neverending stories with tons of filler. I hate when stories are told "just because" and not because they are actually trying to convey something. I know that this is a financial issue (franchise X is profitable, so we will keep expanding it), but seriously, self contained stories >>>>> weekly series.

- Stupid "event" storylines that leave no trace in the characters or whatsoever (Civil War, I am looking at you)

- Utter unability to potray somehow realistic female characters. "Oh, I know how we will compensate her skimpy clothes and whore-ish design so we don't look as if we were objectifying her: she will be a complete and utter baddass (read: man sans penis) personality". Sorry, but Japanese manga is light years ahead of American comics in that regard. You can have strong female characters that at the same time are femenine and have flaws, you know, it is not going to give you aids or anything.

- Demi - God level of superpowers that in the end leads to a complete lack of drama (we all know that Superman is not going to die, really)

- Not knowing that characters death are mean to tell a story instead of an end unto itself

[moggio]

That more people don't read 2000AD.

[Htown]

Every character looking and acting the same. Seriously, the following: Captain America Batman Superman Iron Man Spider-Man Iron-Fist Hawkeye Green Lantern Daredevil -Make them all bold and ... theyre all the same person visually -Are all masters of public speaking and can always say the right thing -Are prone to moodswings -Are master tailors I mean, there are some, like Wolverine that at least are short ... and some artists even forget that sometimes and make him just as tall as the rest.

That's not accurate at all.

[Boogalogist]

I just saw one of my favorite ever villain....Doctor Doom.....shed a tear for 9/11....

DA FUQ is this SHIT?!?