[Thunder Monkey]

*Every damn generation. Not long ago the industry was setting records, and now it's in peril.

Well we started the generation with a slow starter (360) a year later an explosive starter launched, and then fizzled out, while the entire market contracts.

Not hard to see why some are hesitant doing the same thing all over again.

[KageMaru]

It's only the LOS tests which are particularly harsh - and how intensive they are is dependent on your geometry complexity among other things. That said, there's ways to optimise so you don't need too much of them. On the AI systems I've worked on, we simplified the level down to a grid of nodes that could be moved between; obstacles were trivially handled by removing that node from play. That's not terribly intensive provided you've got a good routefinding algorithm.

How would you address characters being aware and reacting to each other in something like a shooter? Read in the past that reactions to the environment, and even the player, isn't too intensive. However it becomes more demanding when different AIs need to react to each other such as in a halo game.

[i-Lo]

I dont really understand why people whom want the best graphics possible and worthy of a considerably larger investment are playing consoles instead of PC's anyway.

Because these people want their console exclusives to look "pwetty".

[Freezie KO]

$299 WiiU vs a $1000 beastly PS4urango. Let's get this generation started right.

[KageMaru]

I dont really understand why people whom want the best graphics possible and worthy of a considerably larger investment are playing consoles instead of PC's anyway.

No one wants the "best" graphics. We just want a good leap.

Plus they are cheaper, easier to work with, receive great support, and are more widely accepted making it easier to play with your friends.

[soulassssns]

Who's ready for $700 consoles with higher failure rates than the first generation of Xbox 360? Aren't you guys excited? Doesn't it feel great to be a hardcore gamer?

My PS3 failed 3 times (no pun intended) so it wasnt just a microsoft screw up this gen.

[DonasaurusRex]

Ill accept more expensive consoles and what not, but this has to be the END of DLC, either make a damn stand alone expansion worth the money in customization and CONTENT or fuck off, the DLC model is just out of hand. And epic and their season pass is just as guilty as the rest. Half this shit should be rolled up into patches and given to the players. And if players could do their own maps and weapon skins with a mod kit they would and even more games would last that much longer on console.

for now im gonna have to go with PC in the future. I will miss my fighting games on PSN and xboxlive but fuck it charging money per character and for costumes??? no sir.

[mugurumakensei]

How would you address characters being aware and reacting to each other in something like a shooter? Read in the past that reactions to the environment, and even the player, isn't too intensive. However it becomes more demanding when different AIs need to react to each other such as in a halo game.

When you simplify it down to a grid of nodes, the nodes only need to be aware of their immediate visible environment which is typically pretty small.

[ThatCrazyGuy]

$299 WiiU vs a $1000 beastly PS4urango. Let's get this generation started right.

I'm in there like swimwear.

[HomerSimpson-Man]

I dont really understand why people whom want the best graphics possible and worthy of a considerably larger investment are playing consoles instead of PC's anyway.

I play both. And being 7 years later it's not unrealistic to expect a nice leap and considering console games having a huge influence on the PC side of development this generation, negatively at times because of choices to preserve console development, it's not too black and white.

[sangreal]

Can we please stop this practice of linking to articles that just recap an article from another source? "Actively lobbying" for the consoles to be more powerful (which implies they are not currently powerful) is not a quote from Epic.

Quote:

“That means we can give detailed recommendations with a complete understanding of what is going to be commercially possible.”

Wired's interpretation:

In other words, Epic has seen the specs of proposed new consoles and is actively lobbying for them to be more powerful.

Eurogamer's interpretation of Wired's article:

Apparently Epic has seen the specs of the PS4 and next Xbox and is "actively lobbying" for them to be more powerful.

[bigboss370]

at the end of the day, the specs don't matter so much as the software the systems will be running. and that software does need to look a leap or two beyond the maximum we have now.

[CoffeeExpress]

I'd listen to Epic. Without that extra ram in the 360, the PS3 could have easily outclassed it in terms of graphics with games such as Uncharted.

But then on the other hand, we are getting to a point where graphical leaps just aren't what they used to be.. would that money spent on doubling the ram be better spent on providing better connectivity and security? (especially since the PS3 hacking scandal). I would say they would probably end up going for the latter.

[ClovingWestbrook]

Can we please stop this practice of linking to articles that just recap an article from another source? "Actively lobbying" for the consoles to be more powerful (which implies they are not currently powerful) is not a quote from Epic. Quote: Wired's interpretation: Eurogamer's interpretation of Wired's article:

I'm sorry but I find it very difficult to believe that Epic doesn't know the current specs/final desired specs for Sony/Microsoft.

[leroidys]

Can we please stop this practice of linking to articles that just recap an article from another source? "Actively lobbying" for the consoles to be more powerful (which implies they are not currently powerful) is not a quote from Epic. Quote: Wired's interpretation: Eurogamer's interpretation of Wired's article:

But then the thread wouldn't even be a page long!

[Coolwhip]

Here's my problem with the screenshots: A very sizable portion of the consumer base that buys these consoles will see almost negligible differences between UE4 and the graphics of current-generation consoles. Are they an upgrade? Yes, especially to those of us tuned in to these things. But are they enough to get average Joe consumer out and buying new consoles? I don't think there is a chance in the world. This industry is in trouble.

The videogame industry right now is a dinosaur anyway. Time for some change. It's time for a standard, like the Iphone or Ipad, where people can buy new versions without MS or Sony having to ditch their old machine. But just create value in the service 'xbox' not the box. Like Apple does with iOS.

[sangreal]

I'm sorry but I find it very difficult to believe that Epic doesn't know the current specs/final desired specs for Sony/Microsoft.

That wasn't my point. It's irrelevant whether they know what the specs are. My point is that the actual quotes from Epic do not say they are 'actively lobbying' to get the console makers to increase the specs. That is a line from Wired, not Epic. Epic's quote just says they are in a better position to provide recommendations than other developers. Nothing in Sweeney or Cliffy's quotes indicate whether they were successful in getting their recommendations implemented

[MoogleWizard]

No thanks, I don't want the gaming industry to become Hollywood and all big titles to be stream-lined, safe and dumbed down so they can appeal to a wider audience and turn a profit for the longer dev cycles, more resources, higher costs and more man power that are needed to create this "huge leap".

And if so much focus is put on the visuals, what matters most, the games itself, will likely suffer. There's a reason why the games with the best graphics are usually the ones that only let you walk narrow paths through corridor levels and play scripted events.

[-Amon-]

In my opinion the Unreal Engine 3 is far from being one of the best engines around on current gen console.

I'm not giving Epic all that credit.

[Yagharek]

Epic will be the death of the industry. Avatar graphics are orders of magnitude more expensive than what developers and the mass market can afford.

[Diddy Kong]

Who's ready for $700 consoles with higher failure rates than the first generation of Xbox 360? Aren't you guys excited? Doesn't it feel great to be a hardcore gamer?

x100000000000

[MuseManMike]

In my opinion the Unreal Engine 3 is far from being one of the best engines around on current gen console. I'm not giving Epic all that credit.

Sure. But they are doing God's work.

x100000000000

I'm going to take a wild guess and say you are not an impartial party.

[nincompoop]

No thanks, I don't want the gaming industry to become Hollywood and all big titles to be stream-lined, safe and dumbed down so they can appeal to a wider audience and turn a profit for the longer dev cycles, more resources, higher costs and more man power that are needed to create this "huge leap".

I think you're about seven years too late

[BosSin]

They want to drive specs up so the higher end game releases look better so the market's expectations for visuals are raised so less rich developers are forced to buy a new engine license to compete rather than just relying on UE3 so they turn to the successor to the engine they're familiar with, and therefore help Epic make loads of money. Same reason Crytek want ridiculously powerful consoles.

I admire their scheming ways

[-Amon-]

Sure. But they are doing God's work.

Can't understand the meaning of this, sorry.

[Plinko]

Did you survey a bunch of wii only owners when they couldn't tell the difference between a top-of-the-line PC and the Wii? Even my mother could tell the difference between the 360 and my ps2/xbox when it first launched in 2005.

Im my research I've found a mediocre number of people who can tell a difference and a much smaller minority who actually care.

I can't get into more detail, but the groups were a broad range of those identifying themselves as gamers and owning any combination of systems. The parameters were quite detailed and not geared toward Wii-only owners at all.

[Nilaul]

Of course Epic is pushing it, they developed it, spent millions into R&D; it would be a pretty shit situation for them im the next consoles cant run it. Or if its not justifiable for developers to license UE4 over UE3, because the consoles cant use the full potential of the engine and the difference between them is not worth the investment by developers.

Epic doesnt give about gamers, they just want to make money.

[lucius]

ways to screw up console launch:

1)don't listen to Epic
2)don't work closely with Epic

[Nilaul]

ways to screw up console launch: 1)don't listen to Epic 2)don't work closely with Epic

3) Launch a console when a new Mario/Pokemon game is coming out on the competitors device. :P

[hatchx]

Call me a moron/idiot/whatever....


But I'm still pretty satisfied with PS3/360 level specs. I only started playing RDR last month and it's blowing me away (and I'm playing the inferior Ps3 version).


I'd be happy with a moderate tech jump for next gen. How about making the systems more reliable this time?

[Hero]

Graphics is honestly one of the last things I care about for making a push to next generation. There's so many more things they could improve upon that would actually effect how games play.

[AzaK]

$299 WiiU vs a $1000 beastly PS4urango. Let's get this generation started right.

And Nintendo bathes in cash and people enjoy gaming while MS and Sony bleed out every orrifice with the same games. Let's get this generation ended right.

[EricDiesel]

Give me whatever leap $400 can get in 2013/14 and I'll be happy. Maybe Epic would love another 599 US DOLLARS situation (or worse), but most people surely wouldn't. It seems like they're happy to see the industry go down in flames as long as they sell their engine.

(And those images look no more impressive than Samaritan, so what's the point?)

V The Wii was an upgraded Gamecube. Not a great argument.

[HomerSimpson-Man]

And Nintendo bathes in cash and people enjoy gaming while MS and Sony bleed out every orrifice with the same games. Let's get this generation ended right.

Yes, Wii sure did get that dev support over PS360!

[purple cobra]

Give me whatever leap $400 can get in 2013/14 and I'll be happy. Maybe Epic would love another 599 US DOLLARS situation (or worse), but most people surely wouldn't. It seems like they're happy to see the industry go down in flames as long as they sell their engine. (And those images look no more impressive than Samaritan, so what's the point?)

Pretty much. I honestly don't want to pay more than $399 for a next gen console. I'm guessing it'll be a nice jump at least from what we have now.

[Fezan]

i think sony should just pull a Nintendo and make a weak console with some gimik.now publishers will have to chose 2 platform vs 1.
Sony will hit 2 birds with a single stone take out Microsoft and reduce development costs.

Joke aside gen 8 will be most depressing in terms of graphics variety where we will see most developers using same techniques and game will tend to look same.the only differentiation factor will be services ?

[bomma_man]

The best generational leap would be if some innovation allowed us to go back to PS1 budgets, dev team sizes and development times.

But instead the arms race continues.

[AwakenedCloud]

I'm hoping the base PS3/NextBox are ~$399 and the premium version is $499, make them nice and expensive. Let the early adopters sustain them for a year or so, and once the price drop comes and software is bundled people like me will jump in.

If we're going to have these boxes for 8+ years, I don't want them to peak early in their life cycle.

[faceless007]

Yes, Wii sure did get that dev support over PS360!

The implication you're making doesn't contradict AzaK's post at all.

[Medalion]

itt a lot of people decide to join the PC master race early?

[Mlatador]

PS4720 will be 399 each - mark my words!! Over 400 would be too much, and under 400 will be too much of a loss - that's why 399. I can't imagine them being more expensive. Of course it's just specualtion, though, but that's my gut feeling.

[theBishop]

PS4720 will be 399 each - mark my words!! Over 400 would be too much, and under 400 will be too much of a loss - that's why 399. I can't imagine them being more expensive. Of course it's just specualtion, though, but that's my gut feeling.

It's a good sign that Sony didn't go crazy with Vita pricing. Regardless of how that system has been received, nobody guessed they'd be able to sell it for under $300.

[Karak]

Why is there such a massive disconnect between the article and the posts here? EPIC never said anything about seeing a system and stating it was under powered. And the one article where they do talk about their behind the scenes dealings requires a pretty big jump for some 2 bit writer to throw an entire thought process behind it. That is just bad writing.

As for the pricing discussion I personally am hoping for MS to continue new ways of sellings systems including their next gen like the 99.99 deal they have now.

[mrklaw]

Wii changed everything. That model no longer is desirable by console manufacturers. To be honest $299 or $399 60fps, 1080p with A LOT better texture is all I want for next gen.

Wii shone bright and then imploded. MS/Sony will want long generations which you need longevity in the hardware and good 3rd party support for

and I wish we wouldn't use single examples to predict anything in the console space.

[systemfehler]

Of course EPIC wants more powerfull consoles but I doubt that their leverage/lobby is strong enough to actually change Sony and MS in their direction. A different situation would arise if MS goes for more power alone - then EPIC could start to convince Sony to do the same or be left out.

In general I prefer a power horse console especially if they launch in 2014. I don't mind if they last as long as this generation. So a decent amount of horse power is needed (for my taste) and compared to price/years in use I think the PS3 wasn't a bad deal or anything.

[Dan Yo]

These threads always cause me to facepalm at least 5 times a page.

So many people actually believe the "industry is in peril because of tech progression" bullshit, and it gives me a migraine.

[jump_button]

Maybe SONY and MS keep to they 10 year plan? Big N fan are ready for the jump but still cant say same for twins will they be happy with better lighting?

[NinjaBoiX]

Do it. I want beast consoles, new generations should have new top of the line tech with games to take advantage of it. I want my jaw to drop if I wanted cheap last-gen tech I could stick with what I already have.

Or get the Wii U.

ohnoyoudidn't.gif

[Neo C.]

In the PS2 era, Free Radical can make a prototype of a game with a budget slightly over 100k. This gen, the licensed middleware or engine alone is worth multiple times.

The current dependance on middleware developers doesn't help the industry to get more profit. It's time to change things.

[Blue Ninja]

The best generational leap would be if some innovation allowed us to go back to PS1 budgets, dev team sizes and development times. But instead the arms race continues.

It's true, development costs are way too freakin' high right now. Way I see it, either at some point technological advancements in the graphics department are going to start stagnating or it'll become way too cost-ineffective to continuously improve and replace the technology. Instead, we'll get developers and publishers working their best to streamline development and just make it cheaper working with the technology they have.

If next gen is capable of delivering 1080p with a reasonable FPS for games with the graphical fidelity of, say, Crysis 2, I can see devs sticking around for a long, long time.