[Alx]

There's not a single market for a single console... you have to see the big picture.
It makes perfectly sense for MS to stop hunting the "core" gamers at this point of the generation, since they already got them and only need to give them the sequels to the games they want. In the last part of the life of a console, you need to target a wider market that is jumping on board thanks to the lower price (games like eyetoy play, buzz or guitar heroes appeared in the late life of the PS2 for example).

Although nothing is official yet, it's obvious to me that all the development of "hardcore" first party games is focused on the next generation. And those are more important, because "hardcore" gamers are the first who will buy a new console at a high price. The nextbox launch will most probably be in 2013, for the launch games to be ready they must be working hard on them right now.

[Y2Kev]

I think people are going to be more focused on the mobile environment for those types of activities. I think it's cool that you can look at FaceBook and Twitter on your television, but I don't really see a mass clamoring for it. I think it's more likely that you'd want to stream video to a television (which you can do today, of course), but even TV-on-TV viewership is dropping.

Convergence is definitely an interest, I just don't think it's convergence around a box in your living room. This has been Microsoft's strategy since the Xbox, but I think mobile has been a major disruptor. Not that their strategy is a losing one or anything.

[jagowar]

I don't think "apps" are going to be a huge differentiator or selling point for them early in the gen, but they are certainly okay to have. I don't think they're, like, focusing on them or anything.

I think apps will be a huge selling point next gen if they get the right ones..... and the right ones are complete apps (live and on demand dvr) for each cable & sat company. If the xbox can be sold by your cable company as the cable box (ie that $99 test price) it would be huge.

But if they just have other streaming apps then they don't matter as much.

[TheOddOne]

I think people are going to be more focused on the mobile environment for those types of activities. I think it's cool that you can look at FaceBook and Twitter on your television, but I don't really see a mass clamoring for it. I think it's more likely that you'd want to stream video to a television (which you can do today, of course), but even TV-on-TV viewership is dropping. Convergence is definitely an interest, I just don't think it's convergence around a box in your living room. This has been Microsoft's strategy since the Xbox, but I think mobile has been a major disruptor. Not that their strategy is a losing one or anything.

Yep, everything in your post is spot-on.

[InaudibleWhispa]

It's not about being casual or hardcore, it's about knowing how and when to appeal to specific markets. I'm sure Microsoft is well aware that the type of people interested in Kinect aren't the ones that buy expensive, powerful consoles on day one. The money early on needs to be spent on establishing new opportunities for the hardcore market. Kinect injected new life into the 360 once its hardcore market was established and could be largely sustained with third party content.

Their new studios, and the money set aside to fund core development indicates that they'll be sticking with the same aim of the core market when the console launches. The 360 can handle casual duties for a few more years. Apps won't interfere with their game software plans and will be a big part of the console (and likely all consoles) no matter what. Most 720 owners will own a PC, so what they do with Windows 8 (with its new app store) and the next Xbox regarding apps could be very interesting.

[Coxy]

I certainly wont be buying one if so, but I'd rather they do that than make an early effort at hardcore to get me on board then drop it a year or two in.

[lefantome]

OP must have missed the threads of their studios working on next Gen games, or the recent investment they made towards games. They are in a better position now than they were at the start of this Gen. First someone hopes Nintendo fails in another thread and now you hope MS fail in this thread. WTF is wrong with you people? Between your assumption that MS has only a couple studios and the use of M$, you clearly only had the intention to spread ignorance in this thread. For being a forum of "hardcore" gamers, plenty of you are quite clueless. It's highly doubtful that the average Xbox owner is as loyal as the typical Nintendo fan. Besides it would be disappointing if MS rested on their laurels like that.

your arguments are very deep.
Check the Microsoft game studios page.

Tell how in the next gen MS should be able to convince third party developers to make esclusive for it's newborn console.
it's a a big waste of money for MS compared to develop an exclusive on their own which can become a mney pot like halo.

[semiconscious]

I think people are going to be more focused on the mobile environment for those types of activities. I think it's cool that you can look at FaceBook and Twitter on your television, but I don't really see a mass clamoring for it. I think it's more likely that you'd want to stream video to a television (which you can do today, of course), but even TV-on-TV viewership is dropping. Convergence is definitely an interest, I just don't think it's convergence around a box in your living room. This has been Microsoft's strategy since the Xbox, but I think mobile has been a major disruptor. Not that their strategy is a losing one or anything.

in a nutshell. for the times they are a'changin'...

[KageMaru]

II don't think they're, like, focusing on them or anything.

This is an important point IMO. By releasing tools for apps, MS doesn't need to focus anything towards these apps, instead just let the companies handle it all.

Why do so many people on NeoGAF think that the secret to market success is appealing to them? It's often the opposite case. Kinect has been very successful and I think Microsoft has done a great job of both appealing to their core base and trying to expand their potential market through a new control scheme.

They are selfish and think what they want is the right way of going about things

[Black-Box]

I like Kinect, I think it is great, but it may of came out too early

[Eggman]

rumoured new core IP's,

Where are these rumors you're talking about?

[KageMaru]

your arguments are very deep. Check the Microsoft game studios page. Tell how in the next gen MS should be able to convince third party developers to make esclusive for it's newborn console. it's a a big waste of money for MS compared to develop an exclusive on their own which can become a mney pot like halo.

They have around ~18 studios now, that's far more than a couple.

Never said they should hope for 3rd party exclusives. This gen has shown that games are too expensive to develop just for one system unless the manufacturer pays for it like MS with Gears or Sony with Resistance.

[El Sloth]

I think it affords them quite a bit of flexibility to expand their service. Especially the apps.

[MirageDwarf]

Microsoft's strategy is actually more of 'covering all bases' than anything. If they maintain this Kinect momentum and combine it with all of these rumoured new core IP's, the NBox will be a very attractive system given they don't fuck up big on hardware reliability (again) or pricing.

lol...year after year people foolishly hope for this but all people get is same Halo, Forza, Fable and going forward Shitnect crap.

[Agent Icebeezy]

Microsoft is going to do the same thing that it did this generation, with even more success.

[Bgamer90]

lol...year after year people foolishly hope for this but all people get is same Halo, Forza, Fable and going forward Shitnect crap.

He said Nextbox...

[bengraven]

I think it's working fine for them. Honestly, it's about the dollar and the loyalty of the most people at once. If it takes them getting rid of the smaller fanbase of "diehard" or "hardcore" (hahaha @ that term) gamers then that's what they need to do.

If I had stock in Microsoft and one Kinect app was selling more than all Viva Pinatas combined, you goddamn right I'd never make another Viva game. If I worked for Sega, I would make 12 Sonic games before even considering a Shenmue sequel.

It's business.

If it was legal, they would bash all of us over the head and steal our money. That's what business is: talking people out of their money. You only want people to be loyal to you so they keep buying your stuff, not so you can go home at night and feel good about yourself.

They still throw quite a few bones at us: the occasional Halo or Elder Scrolls or Diablo, because those games pull in good numbers and help sell systems. But if one day someone said, "Activision, you can make more money with a much smaller investment if you make ten Facebook games instead of one Diablo game" then the next day they're selling Blizzard and buying up a Facebook developer.

And yeah, I'm a gamer and I like the niche games, but realistically the people in charge like the money more than the games. And they should. Playing three hours of Halo isn't going to put food on your kid's plate. Buying up a small indie developer to make cheap ass games that sell millions will though.



So if you like games, you should do what I do. Stop looking to the so called "AAA" and start looking more at the indie scene, where the games are much better and are not usually designed to sell the most amount of units to the biggest audience

[Four_Chamber]

I'm a gamer and their new "strategy" is working quite well for me. My 360 has gone from a primary gaming machine to a primary multimedia machine. I bought MLB.TV this year and am absolutely loving it. HBO Go, which TWC finally activated a couple of days ago, has allowed me to just binge run through great HBO shows without difficulty. Don't get me wrong, I'm still gaming but its become such a versatile machine for me over the course of its life.

[bengraven]

I'm a gamer and their new "strategy" is working quite well for me. My 360 has gone from a primary gaming machine to a primary multimedia machine. I bought MLB.TV this year and am absolutely loving it. HBO Go, which TWC finally activated a couple of days ago, has allowed me to just binge run through great HBO shows without difficulty. Don't get me wrong, I'm still gaming but its become such a versatile machine for me over the course of its life.

Right and even better if you're a family man. My wife plays Pandora radio on it, my son plays Kinect games, I listen to Last.fm, and we all watch Netflix. And when it's working, I'll play a game or two.

[AgentP]

Everyone is going to have the same apps, so one company trying to put them behind a pay wall is not the secret to success. Will Kinect work? I doubt it, the hype from that is already dying, the fad will end before the next gen. MS will have to have game, price and marketing. They will have to do something beyond what they are taking for granted this gen, everyone is going to catch up fast.

So they better have a sub $400 system that is timely to the market and has a Halo to push it. No one cares about Forza or Fable, there sales have been dropping with every release (they come out too fast too).

[Phoenician_Viking]

I think it will make them bigger than ever.

This.

[theBishop]

My guess is that ms will moneyhat some crucial timed exclusives and have just enough core 1st party games to convince gamers to buy.

Despite their slow output of core exclusives lately, I think they'll do well.

[MMaRsu]

If thats mostly what they focus on it might.

[charsace]

It will make them bigger.

[DeaconKnowledge]

Their strategy is only such because it's the end of the generation. Don't be silly and think MS will abandon their bread and butter next gen..

[C4Lukins]

Not me. This is what console makers need to do in order to compete. I do not like it, but it is the new way. Consoles really need to become cable boxes in order to stay relevant.

[Bgamer90]

Everyone is going to have the same apps, so one company trying to put them behind a pay wall is not the secret to success.

What if the payment will cause the apps to be better or have exclusive features to the system?

Will Kinect work? I doubt it, the hype from that is already dying, the fad will end before the next gen.

Needs more good games. As time progresses, it can happen.

MS will have to have game, price and marketing. They will have to do something beyond what they are taking for granted this gen, everyone is going to catch up fast.

Not really taking anything for granted at this point of the gen... they are just focusing on making the 360 a great option for "casual gamers" once the new next-gen xbox is out.

So they better have a sub $400 system that is timely to the market and has a Halo to push it. No one cares about Forza or Fable, there sales have been dropping with every release (they come out too fast too).

Racing games usually do real well as launch titles so I could see a new next-gen Forza doing great. And a lot of people care about Forza (which in turn is why a good number felt GT5 was disappointing in comparison).

I also wouldn't say that every 2-3 years is too fast... especially when you have a lot of yearly sequels.

[Lakitu]

Don't they have quite a few 'core' Durango games in development?

[Schobeleth]

I think their app push will go in to full force during the last years of the 360. It is a weird thing to say, but you can’t really sell such a console to your average gamer anymore. Like everything, we want something shiny. What is the best way to extend sales? Go after the market that would never even think of buying the console – and Microsoft has nailed it to some extent.

I agree with this a lot. Microsoft and Sony have been gobbling up apps and services here and there and it's only helped push their machines. When Microsoft announced they had an exclusive deal with last.fm, I was pretty upset because I primarily play on a PS3. It may not seem like a big deal but some of these services have a big userbase. Having it on a platform that does everything only helps make the sale.

[legacyzero]

I see this being a SONY generation this time around. This was a tough generation with the PS3 and PSN.

I'd honestly like to see them make a comback. Mainly because I'm starting to hate Microsoft, and I kinda think SONY deserves it.

[wsippel]

Knowing Microsoft and looking at their concept, I'd not be surprised if they admitted defeat and dropped the next Xbox halfway in the generation, even if it kinda sells. They won't achieve their ultimate goal, so they'll just give up. Because that's what Microsoft always does when they try (and fail) to enter a new market.

[Atomski]

Apps, casual games and 1 call a duty a year is pretty much all they need to succeed.

[Speedymanic]

Knowing Microsoft and looking at their concept, I'd not be surprised if they admitted defeat and dropped the next Xbox halfway in the generation, even if it kinda sells. They won't achieve their ultimate goal, so they'll just give up. Because that's what Microsoft always does when they try (and fail) to enter a new market.

They didn't do this with the original Xbox or the 360, which wasn't selling as well for the first couple of years.

Not going to pretend MS haven't done what you're saying, but they won't be doing that with the Xbox brand.

Zune, while good, great even, felt incredibly halfhearted. The release was a joke outside of the US. Hell, pretty sure they didn't even bother releasing them outside of the US.

The Xbox had been much more focused from its inception, they haven't half assed anything, well almost anything. That won't change next gen.

[Four_Chamber]

Knowing Microsoft and looking at their concept, I'd not be surprised if they admitted defeat and dropped the next Xbox halfway in the generation, even if it kinda sells. They won't achieve their ultimate goal, so they'll just give up. Because that's what Microsoft always does when they try (and fail) to enter a new market.

Wishful thinking. They've made tremendous inroads into the videogame market this gen, far more than anybody could have anticipated when the original Xbox was out. If this is defeat, I'd love to see what victory looks like.

[KageMaru]

Everyone is going to have the same apps, so one company trying to put them behind a pay wall is not the secret to success. Will Kinect work? I doubt it, the hype from that is already dying, the fad will end before the next gen. MS will have to have game, price and marketing. They will have to do something beyond what they are taking for granted this gen, everyone is going to catch up fast. So they better have a sub $400 system that is timely to the market and has a Halo to push it. No one cares about Forza or Fable, there sales have been dropping with every release (they come out too fast too).

Your posts are always good for a laugh.

[Speedymanic]

Everyone is going to have the same apps, so one company trying to put them behind a pay wall is not the secret to success. Will Kinect work? I doubt it, the hype from that is already dying, the fad will end before the next gen. MS will have to have game, price and marketing. They will have to do something beyond what they are taking for granted this gen, everyone is going to catch up fast. So they better have a sub $400 system that is timely to the market and has a Halo to push it. No one cares about Forza or Fable, there sales have been dropping with every release (they come out too fast too).

It's official folks, Kinect is the new 'wii is a fad'.

Everyone having the same apps? I'll pay you 50 bucks if Sony/Ninty have all the apps MS have when the next gen consoles launch. Seriously, bookmark this post. If Sony/Ninty have every single app that MS have when both consoles launch, you'll have 50 bucks more to put towards your purchase of the PS4/nextbox/Wii U.

[LuchaShaq]

No because you aren't counting their third party strategy of getting everything on their console and relying on the controller/online to make people like me and most of my friends by it on 360 due to those two things.

All of my dudebroish friends that just play COD+ sports games buy them/play them on 360, at this point for these people they might as well be 360 exclusives despite many of them having a ps3 that usually is used once a year outside of blu rays. why? Controller and XBL.

[Sho_Nuff82]

Knowing Microsoft and looking at their concept, I'd not be surprised if they admitted defeat and dropped the next Xbox halfway in the generation, even if it kinda sells. They won't achieve their ultimate goal, so they'll just give up. Because that's what Microsoft always does when they try (and fail) to enter a new market.

...this is sarcasm, right? Haven't seen a post like this since 2007.

[Speedymanic]

No because you aren't counting their third party strategy of getting everything on their console and relying on the controller/online to make people like me and most of my friends by it on 360 due to those two things. All of my dudebroish friends that just play COD+ sports games buy them/play them on 360, at this point for these people they might as well be 360 exclusives despite many of them having a ps3 that usually is used once a year outside of blu rays. why? Controller and XBL.

But PSN is on par with XB...



Sorry, the mere suggestion makes me crack up.

[KageMaru]

PSN is great, especially considering it's free. No sense in trolling it.

[Speedymanic]

PSN is great, especially considering it's free. No sense in trolling it.

Not trolling it, it's good for what it is, but it's not on par with XBL as many people continue to claim it is.

It's just not.

[ShinUltramanJ]

I love my 360 but I have a felling Im no longer the type of consumer that MS is looking for to me this do not look good for nextgen and I dont think they can keep the no 1 spot in the us if they continue down this road next gen

if anything it's going to grow their business.

[pickle]

i don't think it will make them fail, but i don't see it growing their installed base in a dramatic way. the xbox will always be the default north american console as long as microsoft wants it to be. i'm a big halo guy so i will always own an xbox, but tbh i've been gaming more on ps3 in the last few years. kinect and apps don't interest me.

[pickle]

Not trolling it, it's good for what it is, but it's not on par with XBL as many people continue to claim it is. It's just not.

it's close enough. the vita in particular is quite good. i think the problem is the suggestion that that psn is laughable in comparison to xbox live. live has a few extra features but it isn't some huge difference imo.

[wsippel]

Wishful thinking. They've made tremendous inroads into the videogame market this gen, far more than anybody could have anticipated when the original Xbox was out. If this is defeat, I'd love to see what victory looks like.

But that's the problem: Microsoft doesn't give a fuck about the videogame market, they want the living room. That was their ultimate goal from the very beginning. As soon as they realize that this dream won't come true - and it most likely won't - , they'll drop everything. It's just the way Microsoft does things.

[Speedymanic]

it's close enough. the vita in particular is quite good. i think the problem is the suggestion that that psn is laughable in comparison to xbox live. live has a few extra features but it isn't some huge difference imo.

Define close enough.

The vita comes close, so credit where it's due, but it's still severely lacking in several areas compared to XBL. There's also the lack of unification to everything.

This is firmly trodden ground though, so let's not get into it yet again.

[Speedymanic]

But that's the problem: Microsoft doesn't give a fuck about the videogame market, they want the living room. That was their ultimate goal from the very beginning. As soon as they realize that this dream won't come true - and it most likely won't - , they'll drop everything. It's just the way Microsoft does things.

Why won't they achieve this goal?

Haven't they already shown that their console is used for more than just gaming, it's now one of the most used to access TV apparently.

Seems they've made massive inroads.

As for not giving a fuck about gaming. Seriously? Setting up various studios, buying exclusive content, funding XBLA games and so much more isn't them serious about gaming? The fuck are you smokin'.

[KageMaru]

But that's the problem: Microsoft doesn't give a fuck about the videogame market, they want the living room. That was their ultimate goal from the very beginning. As soon as they realize that this dream won't come true - and it most likely won't - , they'll drop everything. It's just the way Microsoft does things.

I agree, but I see them just stopping after next Gen, not just dropping it out of the blue in the middle of the life cycle.

[chris3116]

I can see them putting Kinect (for the casuals) and a tablet controller (just to go on the iPad users and to have Windows 8 on it) on the next console. Will they fail? I don't know. But people must accept that the market is going there.

As for me, XBLA is the best thing for the 360. I don't care at all on Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, ... Microsoft 1st party games have nothing for me.

[Yopis]

[QUOTE=LuchaShaq;38023048]No because you aren't counting their third party strategy of getting everything on their console and relying on the controller/online to make people like me and most of my friends by it on 360 due to those two things.

All of my dudebroish friends that just play COD+ sports games buy them/play them on 360, at this point for these people they might as well be 360 exclusives despite many of them having a ps3 that usually is used once a year outside of blu rays. why? Controller and XBL.[/QUOu]

First batch of EA sports games to go 60 fps were on 360 first also. PS3 was late by a year to do the same. That made a big impression on sports gamers.