[Kraftwerk]

So I saw this article today;

LINK

Pretty interesting to say the least. Won't really work IMO. I mean, I have 2-3 friends who are overweight, and a $2 increase on a greasy meal from a fast food joint won't really turn them away. As the latter part of the article says; they taxed a vending machine by 35% and they saw a decline in sales.

Not saying they shouldn't do it it, even a 1% decline in sales in still progress.

Denmark implemented this end of last year, I wonder how that is going so far.

[shira]

100% tax for the us?

[Trickster]

So I saw this article today; LINK Pretty interesting to say the least. Won't really work IMO. I mean, I have 2-3 friends who are overweight, and a $2 increase on a greasy meal from a fast food joint won't really turn them away. As the latter part of the article says; they taxed a vending machine by 35% and they saw a decline in sales. Not saying they shouldn't do it it, even a 1% decline in sales in still progress. Denmark implemented this end of last year, I wonder how that is going so far.

We did? I havent noticed any changes in prices :P

[Wthermans]

Some companies are already starting to do this through health insurance. At my mother in law's company they are basically doubling the premiums of anyone over their BMI.

[ToxicAdam]

The problem is that overeating is just a symptom of untreated depression. People are just going to keep self-medicating no matter what the price is. Just like other drugs.

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

100% tax for the us?

Read the op?

[shira]

Some companies are already starting to do this through health insurance. At my mother in law's company they are basically doubling the premiums of anyone over their BMI.

That's idiotic. Won't that lead to crash dieting on weigh-in day

[Jtwo]

I've never really spent much time around a morbidly obese person until recently at my semi-new job. I know fat people, I know chubby people, but not someone who is so overweight that they can barely stand up sometimes. Its disgusting. Sorry fat gaf, I love ya'll. But there is this person at work who is so fat its a herculean effort for her to stand up out of a chair. She wears nothing but huge baggy sweat pants and grey tshirts, her chin/face/mouth has this HUGE CREASE that makes it looks like shes constantly frowning, she waddles around weezing. I DOn't know what to do sometimes, I literally can't look her in the eye. Whenever I have to tell her something or go participate in something shes working on I get so awkward, I just don't know how to act around her. I know shes a normal person and have even heard her say some funny and charming things. But I just can't get past it. And she smokes. She smells like tobacco at all times which, I used to be a smoker for while but her weight makes it seem worse. And SHE EATS TV DINNERS. I was going out to my car and saw her on her lunch and she was huddled in front of the microwave waiting for a banquet brand TV DINNER to cook. Who eats a tv dinner at work. And she wears male skateshooes with no laces because her feet are so fat and the tongues of the shows are all pulled out of the body of the shoe. I don't know what to say for myself but I literally cannot be around this person withought feeling such a potent mix of frustration, sadness, empathy, anger and guilt. Its horrible. Just her very presence makes me want to never touch another human ever again.

[D4Danger]

we already pay a 20% tax on food.

[shira]

Read the op?

Saying that the US would need a 100% tax of fast food to effect change, since it is such a huuuge problem

[Jimothy]

The problem is that overeating is just a symptom of untreated depression. People are just going to keep self-medicating no matter what the price is. Just like other drugs.

Yeah, I think once a person reaches a certain weight, they're all just like "fuck life" and keep eating more and more shit food. Overweight people make me sad.

[Al-ibn Kermit]

That's idiotic. Won't that lead to crash dieting on weigh-in day

I doubt you can lose more than 5 pounds on 24 hours.

[tmarques]

That's idiotic. Won't that lead to crash dieting on weigh-in day

Only if people are stupid enough to believe it'll significantly affect their BMI. And even those will quickly learn.

[shira]

I doubt you can lose more than 5 pounds on 24 hours.

Only if people are stupid enough to believe it'll significantly affect their BMI. And even those will quickly learn.

Well assuming you have a month's notice.

[grumble]

I doubt you can lose more than 5 pounds on 24 hours.

There are ways. It's messed up though, so most people wouldn't bother.

It involves not eating, not drinking, lots of sauna and some laxatives/diuretics.

[James Woods]

I doubt you can lose more than 5 pounds on 24 hours.

I have numerous times. It's not healthy at all though, obviously.

[FutureZombie]

So the theory here is that people value money over their health.

[Visualante2]

Another classic example of people trying to use legislation to change people's behaviour. It will only punish the poor, and probably won't really change core attitudes about food and diet.

Why not incentivise healthier foods at the big supermarkets, improve education about diet and subsidise exercise for the most overweight.

So the theory here is that people value money over their health.

Theory? This is the only language governments speak nowadays. You get fined for not recycling where I used to live.

[travisbickle]

we already pay a 20% tax on food.

0% tax on most food produce.

[Prologue]

I have numerous times. It's not healthy at all though, obviously.

Just water weight.

[Piecake]

I have no problem with having a sugar/HFCS tax. Besides awareness, its about the only way we are going to slow down obesity. Even it has no impact, at least we will have more money to help pay for the medical care that those obese people will require

[oxrock]

I have an idea, stop putting fructose in every single fucking food people eat. Make healthier options more affordable and then feel free to tax the fuck out of the unhealthy options.

[pompidu]

Some companies are already starting to do this through health insurance. At my mother in law's company they are basically doubling the premiums of anyone over their BMI.

That should be illegal, also there is nothing scientific about BMI. It's made up and has no relevance.

[shira]

Why not incentivise healthier foods at the big supermarkets, improve education about diet and subsidise exercise for the most overweight.

Poor neighborhoods don't have supermarkets.

[tokkun]

I have no problem with having a sugar/HFCS tax.

No need for a tax. Just remove the subsidies.

[Arment]

It'll never ever happen - at least here in America.

Too much lobbying for that to happen.

Make healthy food cheaper instead.

[Visualante2]

Poor neighborhoods don't have supermarkets.

The poorest neighbourhood in my town has a supermarket. I just used it as an example knowing that most food is bought at one of the 6 giant stores.

[grumble]

That should be illegal, also there is nothing scientific about BMI. It's made up and has no relevance.

It definitely has more than NO relevance. It is more-or-less useful for the majority of the inactive population.

[Piecake]

No need for a tax. Just remove the subsidies.

But it would be so hilariously bureaucratic to subsidize corn and then tax HFCS.

[Husker86]

That should be illegal, also there is nothing scientific about BMI. It's made up and has no relevance.

BMI is fuckin ridiculous. I'm 6'1" and the center of BMI "Normal" is 160 pounds. I mean, really? At 190 I feel just enough to not be seen as skinny, but that puts me "overweight".

[The Technomancer]

BMI is fuckin ridiculous. I'm 6'1" and the center of BMI "Normal" is 160 pounds. I mean, really? At 190 I feel just enough to not be seen as skinny.

Really? I'm like 5'11 and at 145 I'm just on the upper bound of "skinny", if I was 160 I'm pretty sure I'd look about "average" (as in non-skinny, non-chubby)

[pompidu]

It definitely has more than NO relevance. It is more-or-less useful for the majority of the inactive population.

Still flawed as it doesn't take in account bone structure and size. Can be usually very loosely as a guide.

[Suikoguy]

No need for a tax. Just remove the subsidies.

Yeah, that should be the first step. Then watch what happens from there.

[Tabris]

A lot of the reasons people buy things like McDonalds and Junk Food is because it's cheaper and more convenient than buying healthy foods for the amount of food you get. It's not the taste as most healthier foods can taste as good, if not better, than non-healthy foods. If people could have a steak+broccoli prepared in the same amount of time as a big mac and fries for the same price, they would pick the steak+brocolli every time.

If you remove one of those variables, you should see a pretty drastic shift. Of course that will never happen in America due to how far corporate lobbies have their hand up the government's ass (excuse my language) but I can see the rest of the western world slowly start transitioning that way over the next decade.

[shira]

A lot of the reasons people buy things like McDonalds and Junk Food is because it's cheaper and more convenient than buying healthy foods for the amount of food you get. If you remove one of those variables, you should see a pretty drastic shift. Of course that will never happen in America due to how far corporate lobbies have their hand up the government's ass (excuse my language) but I can see the rest of the western world slowly start transitioning that way over the next decade.

Uh advertising.
Olympics brought to you by Coca-Cola and McDonalds.

[Gareth Bale]

0% tax on most food produce.

The list is actually very confusing

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...000118#P26_988

[VALIS]

What about a tax on the sedentary, which seems to be nearly as big of a health risk as obesity with more evidence for this by the day?

Stress is decidedly unhealthy, too. Let's tax those with poor anger management.

And when do we start taxing people with unhealthy bloodlines? Those with heart disease, diabetes, certain cancers and other maladies in their heredity? They will undoubtedly cost more in healthcare on average.



argh

[tokkun]

Still flawed as it doesn't take in account bone structure and size. Can be usually very loosely as a guide.

Yes, but every measure is going to be flawed in some way. BMI trades accuracy for its low cost, ease, and non-invasivenss, and if you're just using it to make a yes/no decision about whether someone is obese, it's accuracy is sufficient. Of course there are some corner cases, like bodybuilders with huge amounts of muscle mass and low fat, but they are rare enough that they could be handled on a case-by-case basis.

What about a tax on the sedentary, which seems to be about as big of a health risk as obesity with seemingly more evidence for this by the day? Stress is decidedly unhealthy, too. Let's tax those with poor anger management. And when do we start taxing people with unhealthy bloodlines? Those with heart disease, diabetes, certain cancers and other maladies in their heredity? They will undoubtedly cost more in healthcare on average. argh

In the US, the government has taxed products that have negative health effects like cigarettes for a long time without horrible consequences, so I'm not sure I buy this sort of slippery-slope mentality.

[Husker86]

Really? I'm like 5'11 and at 145 I'm just on the upper bound of "skinny", if I was 160 I'm pretty sure I'd look about "average" (as in non-skinny, non-chubby)

Well I didn't mean an unhealthy level of skinny. I guess I meant that I feel above average in bulk, which I prefer as I have put effort into building the muscle I have. I guess if I consider myself above average then I can't hold it against the BMI. It's just that it has absolutely no relevance in people who work out to build muscle. Hell, if I lost the fat that I do have by working out more I'd probably weight even closer to 200 with the added muscle.

If I ever had insurance that blindly took BMI into account I'd be pissed.

[SabinFigaro]

BMI is pretty damn arbitrary, as it ignores certain aspects of lifestyle or build, but it's a relatively good yardstick for common use.

I'm all for incentivizing a healthy lifestyle, but its damn hard to change ingrained habits. As some have said, a "fat tax" would probably due more to harm low SES populations. Even if you look at cigarettes, which have been taxed to death, people still smoke. Yes, the incidence of smoking has dropped over time, whether it be due to taxation or education, but some people still pay absurd (and unmaintainable) costs for a pack.

I would love to see subsidies end or be cut for stuff like HFCS and the beef industry. There's a reason why it's cheaper and easier to feed a family at McDonald's then to cook healthy. And yes, I know it's pretty damn easy to cook healthy, but it's still not as easy as fast food.

I was just reading an article too about some schools that had introduced healthy options, and they find their profits freefalling because kids are going out to eat. God, I wish the answer was simple; I see fat, fat people, and fat, fat kids who are on their way to a shitty life or an early grave. Most recommendations or advice are simply brushed off.

So, like a broken record, I recommend comprehensive education, cheaper access to healthy foods, more expensive access to "unhealthy foods" (good luck categorizing that), incentives to be healthy at work, and an all-around different mentality to eating in general. So yeah, a pipe dream. I'm also quite cynical today, if it's not apparent.

[shira]

BMI is pretty damn arbitrary, as it ignores certain aspects of lifestyle or build, but it's a relatively good yardstick for common use. I'm all for incentivizing a healthy lifestyle, but its damn hard to change ingrained habits. As some have said, a "fat tax" would probably due more to harm low SES populations. Even if you look at cigarettes, which have been taxed to death, people still smoke. Yes, the incidence of smoking has dropped over time, whether it be due to taxation or education, but some people still pay absurd (and unmaintainable) costs for a pack. I would love to see subsidies end or be cut for stuff like HFCS and the beef industry. There's a reason why it's cheaper and easier to feed a family at McDonald's then to cook healthy. And yes, I know it's pretty damn easy to cook healthy, but it's still not as easy as fast food. I was just reading an article too about some schools that had introduced healthy options, and they find their profits freefalling because kids are going out to eat. God, I wish the answer was simple; I see fat, fat people, and fat, fat kids who are on their way to a shitty life or an early grave. Most recommendations or advice are simply brushed off. So, like a broken record, I recommend comprehensive education, cheaper access to healthy foods, more expensive access to "unhealthy foods" (good luck categorizing that), incentives to be healthy at work, and an all-around different mentality to eating in general. So yeah, a pipe dream. I'm also quite cynical today, if it's not apparent.

Cigarette taxes don't work here because people just smuggle them to avoid the taxes

[TwiztidElf]

Taxing to modify behaviour is extremely flawed in concept. Junk food already costs more than most healthy food anyhow.

I used to think BMI was crap, but now I'm in the lower half of my healthy range, I actually believe in it.

[VALIS]

Yes, but every measure is going to be flawed in some way. BMI trades accuracy for its low cost, ease, and non-invasivenss, and if you're just using it to make a yes/no decision about whether someone is obese, it's accuracy is sufficient. Of course there are some corner cases, like bodybuilders with huge amounts of muscle mass and low fat, but they are rare enough that they could be handled on a case-by-case basis. In the US, the government has taxed products that have negative health effects like cigarettes for a long time without horrible consequences, so I'm not sure I buy this sort of slippery-slope mentality.

My bad, the phrase "fat tax" in the OP and someone talking about health insurance made me think this was yet another pitch for a tax on fat people, not certain food and drink.

[Piecake]

Cigarette taxes don't work here because people just smuggle them to avoid the taxes

pfft, you have numbers to back that up? I cant imagine smuggled cigarettes is a significant portion of total cigarettes smoked

Taxing to modify behaviour is extremely flawed in concept. Junk food already costs more than most healthy food anyhow. I used to think BMI was crap, but now I'm in the lower half of my healthy range, I actually believe in it.

Its only crap if youre an athlete or are bulking up through weight lifting. For everyone else, its pretty applicable.

[bomma_man]

Will disproportionately effect the poor.

My girlfriend's dad used to be principal at a primary school in a poor suburb that's only 15-20 minutes outside the city, said he took a selection of fruits into class once and half the kids didn't know what they were.

[Piecake]

Will disproportionately effect the poor. My girlfriend's dad used to be principal at a primary school in a poor suburb that's only 15-20 minutes outside the city, said he took a selection of fruits into class once and half the kids didn't know what they were.

Thats just poor nutrition education. Bananas are INSANELY cheap. No way anyone cant afford them

[pompidu]

Will disproportionately effect the poor. My girlfriend's dad used to be principal at a primary school in a poor suburb that's only 15-20 minutes outside the city, said he took a selection of fruits into class once and half the kids didn't know what they were.

That is sad.

[tiff]

Will disproportionately effect the poor.

yup. weird to see liberals fall in line behind regressive taxation.

[Trent Strong]

The problem is that overeating is just a symptom of untreated depression. People are just going to keep self-medicating no matter what the price is. Just like other drugs.

A huge percentage of the US population is overweight. I don't think all those people have depression.

[bomma_man]

Thats just poor nutrition education. Bananas are INSANELY cheap. No way anyone cant afford them

Well yes, but a tax like this isn't going to change that is it? In the same way that cigarettes and petrol are largely inelastic I'm not sure that this will have much of an effect. The decrease in smoking rates has been almost entirely because of education.