[CrAzYLeGzLU]

Just got done re-watching Nintendo's 2006 E3 Conference and there's one thing I really really hope they stop doing when marketing the Wii U. Those stupid overacted trailers/commercials with people diving behind couches and jumping around the room. Make them straight and to the point with gameplay and if you need to show how a feature works on the UPad just cut to a CG one floating and demonstrate it there or explain it with text.

[bgassassin]

Yeah I think they will be taking a bit of a loss and its one I dont think they have a choice on it. Microsoft and Sony do have a big advantage going into this fall with the price cut ability.

I think it would benefit them more when compared to PS4 and Xbox 3 and establishing a base than whatever Sony or MS does with their current consoles.

Right but I'm talking about it not being pre-baked. Like in the bird demo, there's color bleed between the bird and the tree right? Then when the bird leaves it's gone, and we get color bleed happening from other things. I don't think you can have change like that with a pre-baked map, though I could be wrong. I was just wondering if it's possible to have hardware that just compares proximity between pieces of geo and adds in some color from the one object to the other based on proximity. As another way of faking some radiosity. I just don't know if that's something you could do in fixed function hardware, like can you have hardware that just does that. So it's not bouncing photons around, but we're getting another type of faked approximation. With out having to make pre-baked maps ahead of time, letting it be more interactive.

To me it would seem that either they would go for actual GI/Radiosity or stick to what's used already. It would seem like a waste of transistors and silicon to have a portion dedicated to faking those things.

[antonz]

I think it would benefit them more when compared to PS4 and Xbox 3 and establishing a base than whatever Sony or MS does with their current consoles. To me it would seem that either they would go for actual GI/Radiosity or stick to what's used already. It would seem like a waste of transistors and silicon to have a portion dedicated to faking those things.

That is also a key part of it. They need to offer an affordable console that people are willing to make the jump on and create a userbase. Particularly a userbase that likes core games

[Oddduck]

Just got done re-watching Nintendo's 2006 E3 Conference and there's one thing I really really hope they stop doing when marketing the Wii U. Those stupid overacted trailers/commercials with people diving behind couches and jumping around the room. Make them straight and to the point with gameplay and if you need to show how a feature works on the UPad just cut to a CG one floating and demonstrate it there or explain it with text.

I think the overacting in the E3 trailers is what helped sell Wii's controller technology to the casuals in 2006.

The casuals loved the idea of jumping around and swinging their remotes around.

It was the hardcore who hated the idea.

[japtor]

That's why it was throwing me off. I can't include them in that fashion especially since that's what would be tailored according to your previous post. But I was looking at the texture sampler and if it can be modified for efficient handling of displacement maps since it's unlikely the GPU will have a lot of them.

Going back and reading the posts again...I think the main difference is that I'm thinking of it in terms of existing standards vs another custom Nintendo thing. I think blu's post quoted here gets at what I'm thinking of:

Surely Thraktor is absolutely correct to say that whatever nintendo might have come up with, amd & nv must have already considered, or even implemented, into their current/future architectures. But let's not forget what nintendo are bargaining for here: they are not ordering some unheard-of tech integrated in an off-the-shelf part, no - they are bargaining for the best bang for transistor. To translate that into simple terms, you can think of nintendo cherry-picking from the amd gardens to a fruit basket that best suites nintendo's fruit salad (aha! and you thought bad metaphors were only cars-related ; ) What does that mean? Not any alien tech, that's for sure.

Granted that doesn't really answer your question but I don't think it's too crazy to think that AMD would know enough about whatever graphics techniques that they could possibly specialize hardware for them (at least in the realm of tesselation and mapping techniques that are already in use). Also just read that other post about Larrabee again, brings up something else I just thought of earlier, I wonder if there's a potential patent/IP minefield when it comes to this stuff. And if nothing else there's this part of the quote:

The key difference between Larrabee and all previous graphics chips is programmability. The latest DirectX 10 GPUs from AMD and NVIDIA may be much more flexible and programmable than their progenitors, but they retain a wide range of fixed function units for texture sampling, rasterization, geometry setup and more. Only the shader units are truly programmable and even those are much less flexible than a general purpose CPU.

I guess they could load up heavily on those units vs whatever a usual GPU would have balance wise, like maybe a powerhouse at texture sampling (or whatever features) but with relatively weak programmability.

[CrAzYLeGzLU]

I think the overacting in the E3 trailers is what helped sell Wii's controller technology to the casuals in 2006. The casuals loved the idea of jumping around and swinging their remotes around. It was the hardcore who hated the idea.

Totally agree here the casuals ate that shit up. I think now though with Wii, Kinect and Move out there those commercials do little for selling a console or game to casual players.

I'd like to see Nintendo move away from that type of marketing for the Wii U but I honestly doubt they will. Now they will probably focus on the NFC features in their commercials.

[StreetsAhead]

I can already imagine the "Wii vs Wii U graphics comparison" threads :P A precursor: (bonus lighting fx) I mean, this difference alone is pretty neat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wruBogE-AHE (Twilight Armogohma battle on Wii) & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27Lf4uVuE50 (Wii U tech demo)

Just remembered I wanted to respond to this post. That Link model is almost exactly the same in both shots - obviously based on the TP model.
Just think how amazing it *could* look when built from the ground up.
*drools*

[Gahiggidy]

That room wasn't actually in Twilight Princess, was it?

[TheExplodingHead]

Let's just hope the actual spider battle gameplay is better than TP's version. Hopefully the action will match the graphics.

[CrAzYLeGzLU]

That room wasn't actually in Twilight Princess, was it?

I don't remember seeing it myself. I'm pretty sure it was made just for the demo. I think they just used TP link so people could easily see the graphical jump.

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

That room wasn't actually in Twilight Princess, was it?

Nope.

[japtor]

Let's just hope the actual spider battle gameplay is better than TP's version. Hopefully the action will match the graphics.

"And now a new Zelda...presented by Team Ninja!"

[CrAzYLeGzLU]

"And now a new Zelda...presented by Team Ninja!"

Poor Zelda...having to heft those double D's around...

[kami_sama]

"And now a new Zelda...presented by Team Ninja!"

After the backlash of Metroid Other M it would be the worst thing they could do.

[bgassassin]

That is also a key part of it. They need to offer an affordable console that people are willing to make the jump on and create a userbase. Particularly a userbase that likes core games

Especially if it does well enough to blur the lines of the graphical differences between it and the other two console coming out.

Going back and reading the posts again...I think the main difference is that I'm thinking of it in terms of existing standards vs another custom Nintendo thing. I think blu's post quoted here gets at what I'm thinking of: Granted that doesn't really answer your question but I don't think it's too crazy to think that AMD would know enough about whatever graphics techniques that they could possibly specialize hardware for them (at least in the realm of tesselation and mapping techniques that are already in use). Also just read that other post about Larrabee again, brings up something else I just thought of earlier, I wonder if there's a potential patent/IP minefield when it comes to this stuff. And if nothing else there's this part of the quote: I guess they could load up heavily on those units vs whatever a usual GPU would have balance wise, like maybe a powerhouse at texture sampling (or whatever features) but with relatively weak programmability.

Yeah I believe we've talked in the past about the GPU having more TMUs or ROPs than what you would see in a traditional GPU that would have the same amount of shaders. Though I don't know if doing so would be something that would be a "Nintendo-patented" feature. And at the same time I don't see an issue with other patents if Nintendo has their own for whatever these features might be.

[Gahiggidy]

Why do I feel like we know even less about the Wii U CPU/GPU setup today than what we knew 6 months ago? :(

[Smiles and Cries]

Nascar Wii-U Trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZuUR...eature=related Not sure if it's real or not.

this was posted a few days ago... along when a gif of a profile for it saying it was for WiiU

I forgot who posted it but I believe its no big deal to think of it as real
its not the kind of thing that is worth faking NASCAR is super niche

[CrAzYLeGzLU]

Why do I feel like we know even less about the Wii U CPU/GPU setup today than what we knew 6 months ago? :(

I think it's just confusion from all the different rumors that have been flying around. I've personally given up on trying to figure out what's inside it right now.

[Smiles and Cries]

Why do I feel like we know even less about the Wii U CPU/GPU setup today than what we knew 6 months ago? :(

all our faith and hopes have been based on posts by a few members here including BG just above

some of them may know much more than we do but they have posted as educated guess based on a lot of speculation

For all we know Nintendo may have gone in a totally different direction then the info these guys have been feed

[Mistle]

While that demo looked great, Link's hair and skin colour don't match well. It always looked off to me, haha

[Dreamwriter]

Just got done re-watching Nintendo's 2006 E3 Conference and there's one thing I really really hope they stop doing when marketing the Wii U. Those stupid overacted trailers/commercials with people diving behind couches and jumping around the room. Make them straight and to the point with gameplay and if you need to show how a feature works on the UPad just cut to a CG one floating and demonstrate it there or explain it with text.

They needed that for the Wii. The main point of the system was its motion controls, they did that stuff to emphasize that the player's motions are actually affecting the game. And explain something with text? Include a "tutorial" showing a CG controller? How are those ideas supposed to create excitement in a sizzle video?

[bgassassin]

Why do I feel like we know even less about the Wii U CPU/GPU setup today than what we knew 6 months ago? :(

I'd say that opposite is true as six months ago we were still expecting a more traditional GPU in Wii U. At least we know now that's not the case.

all our faith and hopes have been based on posts by a few members here including BG just above some of them may know much more than we do but they have posted as educated guess based on a lot of speculation For all we know Nintendo may have gone in a totally different direction then the info these guys have been feed

Not this late in the game.

[Dreamwriter]

While that demo looked great, Link's hair and skin colour don't match well. It always looked off to me, haha

Well, yeah, his hair wasn't pink...

[Smiles and Cries]

I'd say that opposite is true as six months ago we were still expecting a more traditional GPU in Wii U. At least we know now that's not the case. Not this late in the game.

not late in the game... it depends on what Nintendo has been giving your sources BG
I don't know where you get your info, I'm just saying how much can Nintendo make changes that still support whatever the devs are doing but maybe changed enough not to be what everyone knows on paper

not late means it was planned years ago to give only the info the devs have now but keep the meat of something bigger in-house

[Gahiggidy]

bgassassin, do you think its too late to redesign the basic dimensions of the case? I mean, for example, could they have decided to stack the disc drive on top of the motherboard without disrupting the plans for the chipset?

[bgassassin]

not late in the game... it depends on what Nintendo has been giving your sources BG I don't know where you get your info, I'm just saying how much can Nintendo make changes that still support whatever the devs are doing but maybe changed enough not to be what everyone knows on paper not late means it was planned years ago to give only the info the devs have now but keep the meat of something bigger in-house

I don't recall ever saying everything I told was "on paper", so I'll just stick to what I said in the other post.

[Dreamwriter]

I'd be willing to bet money that whatever GPU the Wii-U ships with, was planned by Nintendo at least 2 years ago, and has gone through zero design changes. The 3DS CPU/GPU SOC didn't get any changes even when the hardware team learned that the system needed to support twice the rendering power than they had planned - they just upped the clockrate it was using.

[Smiles and Cries]

I don't recall ever saying everything I told was "on paper", so I'll just stick to what I said in the other post.

well poo for us uninformed losers here

the good thing about not knowing, is that it will be all NEW Info to us

so no surprises for you BG :(

[Freezie KO]

I was rewatching the Reggie Facebook video. I wonder if Reggie actually plays video games.

[antonz]

I'd be willing to bet money that whatever GPU the Wii-U ships with, was planned by Nintendo at least 2 years ago, and has gone through zero design changes. The 3DS CPU/GPU SOC didn't get any changes even when the hardware team learned that the system needed to support twice the rendering power than they had planned - they just upped the clockrate it was using.

3DS is a tough one to call. We do know Nintendo was making it with a Tegra chip initially. Common belief is Nintendo dropped it due to Tegra not living up to promised performance.

Nintendo will make changes mid play if they have to but its not something to expect constantly

[bgassassin]

well poo for us uninformed losers here the good thing about not knowing, is that it will be all NEW Info to us so no surprises for you BG :(

LOL. I was told the same thing by one of the people who shared info with me. I told him I just wanted to have a better understanding of the hardware and that I'll save the surprises for the games and how the online looks.

bgassassin, do you think its too late to redesign the basic dimensions of the case? I mean, for example, could they have decided to stack the disc drive on top of the motherboard without disrupting the plans for the chipset?

By now something like that I would assume is set. Looking at the length of the case, I don't see the disc drive being too much on top of the MB unless we are looking at a long MB.

I'd be willing to bet money that whatever GPU the Wii-U ships with, was planned by Nintendo at least 2 years ago, and has gone through zero design changes. The 3DS CPU/GPU SOC didn't get any changes even when the hardware team learned that the system needed to support twice the rendering power than they had planned - they just upped the clockrate it was using.

I'd be totally willing to bet against that.

[CrAzYLeGzLU]

They needed that for the Wii. The main point of the system was its motion controls, they did that stuff to emphasize that the player's motions are actually affecting the game. And explain something with text? Include a "tutorial" showing a CG controller? How are those ideas supposed to create excitement in a sizzle video?

Not so much a tutorial but more like how Mortal Kombat Vita's trailers were and most trailers for Vita games here recently.

http://youtu.be/l2wxuZxmsBs

For the UPad we don't really need a full pulled back view of the person using the controller (unless the game really does rely heavily on motion controls) just an over the shoulder view of how that particular game is played on it will work. Have that mixed in with full screen gameplay and I think you'd have a trailer that keeps from being over the top but still conveys the message of how that particular game is fun to play.

[antonz]

I think Ideaman was teasing that the Console casing itself saw some changes but I cant verify that. Finalized details like that arent in my paygrade

[Smiles and Cries]

BG has already seen the final case... sheesh dude you have ruined E3 for yourself

[Gahiggidy]

Yeah, right now its just so boring to me. Not ugly, but not interesting or memorable:



I can see they made it that long shape in order to hide its volume when peeking out of an entertainment shelf, but I think they need to do something else to actually have it stand out in people's minds.

[Smiles and Cries]

Nintendo's most boring box ever, even NES has more character

I wonder if the dvd slot has led lights

[Oddduck]

I was rewatching the Reggie Facebook video. I wonder if Reggie actually plays video games.

I'm sure he does.

Although I doubt he has the time to play games for extensive amounts of time.

[bgassassin]

BG has already seen the final case... sheesh dude you have ruined E3 for yourself

Nope on both accounts. There are plenty of things left to surprise me. If it doesn't it's only because of on-point speculation on whatever it is. Like Iwata officially talking about individual accounts not tied to hardware.

[Smiles and Cries]

Nope on both accounts. There are plenty of things left to surprise me. If it doesn't it's only because of on-point speculation on whatever it is. Like Iwata officially talking about individual accounts not tied to hardware.

ok then, there is still a chance the boring box has changed enough to look appealing?

[Freezie KO]

I'm sure he does. Although I doubt he has the time to play games for extensive amounts of time.

Do you have any evidence that he does? Or are you just "sure"? I'm just curious. For some reason, this question intrigues me.

I agree that he probably doesn't have much time. So has he played Galaxy? Skyward Sword? Has he ever downloaded a game from Wiiware?

Maybe he only plays portable games when he travels. Does he just play Touch Golf and Brain Age? Or has he beaten Super Mario 3D Land? What third-party games has he played?

None of this matters as a spokesperson at E3, of course, but as the president of NOA, I think it's interesting. We know, at least, that Iwata was a game developer, so his credentials as loving the industry are top notch. Reggie was the guy that made a really big rectangle pizza.

[antonz]

ok then, there is still a chance the boring box has changed enough to look appealing?

I wouldnt expect anything besides maybe altering the interior or the case and maybe a small size increase in spots. Its likely the boring book shape is here to stay

[Caramello]

Do you have any evidence that he does? Or are you just "sure"? I'm just curious. For some reason, this question intrigues me. I agree that he probably doesn't have much time. So has he played Galaxy? Skyward Sword? Has he ever downloaded a game from Wiiware? Maybe he only plays portable games when he travels. Does he just play Touch Golf and Brain Age? Or has he beaten Super Mario 3D Land? What third-party games has he played? None of this matters as a spokesperson at E3, of course, but as the president of NOA, I think it's interesting. We know, at least, that Iwata was a game developer, so his credentials as loving the industry are top notch. Reggie was the guy that made a really big rectangle pizza.

He's a pretty big Zelda fan as far as I'm aware

Reggie Fils-Aime: “I'm a longtime ‘Zelda’ fan. I played ‘Zelda’ before I ever considered that I could be working for the company. I cut my teeth on ‘Link to the Past.’"

Link: http://www.examiner.com/article/regg...time-zelda-fan

[Dreamwriter]

3DS is a tough one to call. We do know Nintendo was making it with a Tegra chip initially. Common belief is Nintendo dropped it due to Tegra not living up to promised performance. Nintendo will make changes mid play if they have to but its not something to expect constantly

Nintendo told us some about the 3DS SOC development - here's one of the key places where they discuss it, and here's another. They make it pretty clear that the SOC development has to happen VERY early, and takes a long time to complete. And changing it mid-play is very hard, and rare.

[CrAzYLeGzLU]

ok then, there is still a chance the boring box has changed enough to look appealing?

I really hope so. The Wii design was great and fit the idea of the system well but just making pretty much a longer Wii for the Wii U is kinda boring. Seeing what cool design Nintendo has come up with for their new console is half the fun.

[Smiles and Cries]

I'm sure he does. Although I doubt he has the time to play games for extensive amounts of time.

I think people lack the understanding of how much work Reggie has on his plate everyday from his job at Nintendo

even putting E3 together is all on his plate to pull off, not the decision of what to say or show but the whole putting things together is all on NoA's turf

reaching out to all local devs, secret meeting and deals.... media and marketing

any failure in the US lands on his lap

then you have the crazy fans

[Gahiggidy]

I wonder if Reggie eats pizza?

[Smiles and Cries]

I wouldnt expect anything besides maybe altering the interior or the case and maybe a small size increase in spots. Its likely the boring book shape is here to stay

you know you don't have to change the interior to change the plastic shell into something nicer

[Gahiggidy]

I really hope so. The Wii design was great and fit the idea of the system well but just making pretty much a longer Wii for the Wii U is kinda boring. Seeing what cool design Nintendo has come up with for their new console is half the fun.

The Wii also had that stand that perched the box up at an interesting angle.

[bgassassin]

I wouldnt expect anything besides maybe altering the interior or the case and maybe a small size increase in spots. Its likely the boring book shape is here to stay

This is the take I have as well. Any external changes won't be done to make it aesthetically appealing IMO. A change in color is probably all we'll get and even that will be limited (as it should IMO also).

[Agent Unknown]

He's a pretty big Zelda fan as far as I'm aware Reggie Fils-Aime: “I'm a longtime ‘Zelda’ fan. I played ‘Zelda’ before I ever considered that I could be working for the company. I cut my teeth on ‘Link to the Past.’" Link: http://www.examiner.com/article/regg...time-zelda-fan

Yeah, LttP is his favorite game and IIRC he said the first time he met Miyamoto he had him autograph his cartridge.