[Angry Grimace]

Looking into whether Dr. King supported gay rights is basically acknowledging there's some merit to the argument that what he thought about gay rights in the 2010s matters.

[JokerOfSpades]

...dude...

Should have seen that one coming.

[CrazyDogg77]

LOL, every congregation knows the pastor is always full of shit.

That is the most wishful of thinking and you know it.

My pastor preached on gay marriage Sunday and most everybody in there was eating it up.

[Slayven]

That is the most wishful of thinking and you know it.

If they called for a march or some shit, only about 15% of their people would show up. And the majority of them would need walkers.

[BSTF]

The favor of equal rights as human beings? Damn yo', I guess they should only ask for milk next time.

I'm guessing the CAAP, is against polygamy as well, but you don't see much outcry about that issue.

Did you actually read the OP? While the stance may not be new, the level of irony is delicious.

Nothing really ironic about it.

This isn't about favors. You'd just expect that people who faced discrimination would understand that all sorts of discrimination is bad.

Discrimination isn't all the same.

I remember you! You're that guy who believes sexuality is a choice! It's been a while.

Nope, I'm the guy who says there is weak evidence at best at people being born gay. Gays have a choice of committing their acts, just as heterosexuals have a choice. Again I'm guessing, but I bet the CAAP is against premarital sex.

[soundahfekz]

Fuck these guys

[Slayven]

My pastor preached on gay marriage Sunday and most everybody in there was eating it up.

I would bet money many of those people walked out and didn't give it a second thought.

[BocoDragon]

I'm not gay, I don't have any gay family or friends, but it's seems inherent to me that I must support gay marriage stuff as a matter of dignity for my fellow human.

So when I look at people who claim to have been civil rights leaders, who don't support LGBT on marriage, I have to think... you're really bad at this "rights" business, and you're big, fat phonies.

[CrazyDogg77]

I would bet money many of those people walked out and didn't give it a second thought.

Yeah but that second thought would have been to consider gays having equal rights. The first one is just to condemn it.

[Oldschoolgamer]

LOL, every congregation knows the pastor is always full of shit.

Not even close to the truth. lol

[MWS Natural]

Christians against gay marriage, what's new? People need to stop acting like African Americans owe gay people a favor.

Why does the media keep focusing so much on what black people think on this issue when there are more white people in the US against gay marriage than black people?

Let's hear the opinions of the Mormon, Catholic and Jewish clergy men!

[JokerOfSpades]

Why does the media keep focusing so much on what black people think on this issue when there are more white people in the US against gay marriage than black people? Let's hear the opinions of the Mormon, Catholic and Jewish clergy men!

I was certain that blacks were the minority group most against homosexuality.

[Slayven]

Yeah but that second thought would have been to consider gays having equal rights. The first one is just to condemn it.

Well hypocrisy ranks just below free food in what black churches are about.

[DY_nasty]

I'm not gay, I don't have any gay family or friends, but it's seems inherent to me that I must support gay marriage stuff as a matter of dignity for my fellow human. So when I look at people who claim to have been civil rights leaders, who don't support LGBT on marriage, I have to think... you're really bad at this "rights" business, and you're big, fat phonies.

They are entirely different climates.

I'm all for it - but goddamn is it irritating when people try and line one up in comparison to the other and say "its the same struggle! all discrimination is the same!" its not. and treating it as such takes a good bit of attention from the distinct issues of each.

[BocoDragon]

Why does the media keep focusing so much on what black people think on this issue when there are more white people in the US against gay marriage than black people? Let's hear the opinions of the Mormon, Catholic and Jewish clergy men!

White guys are at fault too.

But there's just something extra ironic about climbing your way up, only to be the one keeping your boot on the next minority.

[Kusagari]

Why does the media keep focusing so much on what black people think on this issue when there are more white people in the US against gay marriage than black people? Let's hear the opinions of the Mormon, Catholic and Jewish clergy men!

Probably because Black people are consistently the race most against Gay Marriage? And it's magnified now by political analysts contrasting how Obama's support of it will affect their support of him.

[Slayven]

Probably because Black people are consistently the race most against Gay Marriage? And it's magnified now by political analysts contrasting how Obama's support of it will affect their support of him.

Yeah black people funded and ran those huge campaigns against Prop 8

[BocoDragon]

They are entirely different climates. I'm all for it - but goddamn is it irritating when people try and line one up in comparison to the other and say "its the same struggle! all discrimination is the same!" its not. and treating it as such takes a good bit of attention from the distinct issues of each.

The greatest distinction seems to be from those who have a problem with one, and not the other.

I find it pretty simple to permit people to do what they want, whether they are black or gay.

[BSTF]

Why does the media keep focusing so much on what black people think on this issue when there are more white people in the US against gay marriage than black people? Let's hear the opinions of the Mormon, Catholic and Jewish clergy men!

Because that's how they wanted it:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MNA51NQTAH.DTL

[CrazyDogg77]

White guys are at fault too. But there's just something extra ironic about climbing your way up, only to be the one keeping your boot on the next minority.

Blacks aren't keeping gay marriage illegal though. Yes many are opposed to it but there's no concerted effort to keep gay marriage from coming to fruition.

[BocoDragon]

Blacks aren't keeping gay marriage illegal though. Yes many are opposed to it but there's no concerted effort to keep gay marriage from coming to fruition.

That's true.

I would personally just talk about this minority of people in the actual story:

If you walked with Dr. King for civil rights equality for blacks, and you don't recognize the right of gays to do what they please, I feel like you are a hypocrite. Or rather... you were never a "rights" crusader at all. You were a black rights crusader, yes, but not a human rights crusader.

[DY_nasty]

Probably because Black people are consistently the race most against Gay Marriage? And it's magnified now by political analysts contrasting how Obama's support of it will affect their support of him.

where you getting that from?

The greatest distinction seems to be from those who have a problem with one, and not the other. I find it pretty simple to permit people to do what they want, whether they are black or gay.

its not that simple

treating it as such does a disservice to both communities. saying "gay is the new black" is going to rub many blacks the wrong way for a lot of reasons. saying it over and over again is simply going to reinforce that.

[PhoenixPause]

Christians against gay marriage, what's new? People need to stop acting like African Americans owe gay people a favor.

What does this even mean? If anyone should identify with the struggles of gay people, it's black people. Civil rights are civil rights, period. This should apply to those who were involved in the Civil Rights movement even more, to be honest.

[NullPointer]

You were a black rights crusader, yes, but not a human rights crusader.

Seems fair to me.

saying "gay is the new black" is going to rub many blacks the wrong way for a lot of reasons. saying it over and over again is simply going to reinforce that.

That's not what he's saying at all. You're projecting.

[DY_nasty]

That's true. I would personally just talk about this minority of people in the actual story: If you walked with Dr. King for civil rights equality for blacks, and you don't recognize the right of gays to do what they please, I feel like you are a hypocrite. Or rather... you were never a "rights" crusader at all. You were a black rights crusader, yes, but not a human rights crusader.

And again, the majority of the Civil Rights Movement marched for minorities. Many of those same people shared a common banner for women's rights as well. But lets be real and stop bullshitting - It wasn't about LGBT rights in any real way. It vaguely touched on the matter being such a religious heavy theme for many at the time.

That's not what he's saying at all. You're projecting.

I am. Because that's where this conversation always seems to go. When you start off saying that "discrimination is discrimination" you're saying nothing than "bad stuff is bad".

Specifically in this case. It isn't even about the black community as much as it is the religious communities - like it almost always is.

[NullPointer]

And again, the majority of the Civil Rights Movement marched for minorities. Many of those same people shared a common banner for women's rights as well. But lets be real and stop bullshitting - It wasn't about LGBT rights in any real way. It vaguely touched on the matter being such a religious heavy theme for many at the time.

I thought it was about judging people by the content of their character.

When you start off saying that "discrimination is discrimination" you're saying nothing than "bad stuff is bad".

I'd disagree and say that it means that discrimination knows many forms, and its larger than one issue, one race or one gender, or one tradition, or one set of laws in one time and place.

[BocoDragon]

And again, the majority of the Civil Rights Movement marched for minorities. Many of those same people shared a common banner for women's rights as well. But lets be real and stop bullshitting - It wasn't about LGBT rights in any real way. It vaguely touched on the matter being such a religious heavy theme for many at the time.

No it wasn't. You are right. But don't you think that freedom for blacks directly applies to freedom for others? Was the name of the game to give black people freedom, then forget about other groups? For some, apparently so.

[border]

“It’s an attempt by men to use political power to declare that an act contrary to God’s law and to the natural law is a civil right.”

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Bible that says black people should be allowed to vote. Can we bring back Jim Crow laws?

[MWS Natural]

Probably because Black people are consistently the race most against Gay Marriage? And it's magnified now by political analysts contrasting how Obama's support of it will affect their support of him.

Black people are less than 15% of the country, we aren't the ones keeping gay marriage illegal so why are we the focus??

We already get blamed for crime and welfare why not just throw another log of BS on the fire!!

[JokerOfSpades]

“It’s an attempt by men to use political power to declare that an act contrary to God’s law and to the natural law is a civil right.” I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Bible that says black people should be allowed to vote. Can we bring back Jim Crow laws?

That's not how it works. Unless the Bible says that black people shouldn't be allowed to vote, your post makes no sense.

[BocoDragon]

where you getting that from? its not that simple treating it as such does a disservice to both communities. saying "gay is the new black" is going to rub many blacks the wrong way for a lot of reasons. saying it over and over again is simply going to reinforce that.

Oh I agree that the black struggle was... let's put this delicately... more intrinsic to their day to day lives than the ability of a gay person to marry.

But I just think that crusading for freedom in one arena directly applies to other freedoms in other arenas.

[BlueTsunami]

Black people are less than 15% of the country, we aren't the ones keeping gay marriage illegal so why are we the focus?? We already get blamed for crime and welfare why not just throw another log of BS on the fire!!

I think its obviously about Obama and the black vote. Also community leaders coming out of the woodwork and yelling about betrayal.

[Dragon]

Black people are less than 15% of the country, we aren't the ones keeping gay marriage illegal so why are we the focus?? We already get blamed for crime and welfare why not just throw another log of BS on the fire!!

Only idiots propose that black people are solely to blame for crime and welfare. But the victim complex does not do you any good.

[MIMIC]

Black people are less than 15% of the country, we aren't the ones keeping gay marriage illegal so why are we the focus?? We already get blamed for crime and welfare why not just throw another log of BS on the fire!!

Because black civil rights are being erroneously equated to EVERYTHING.

[DY_nasty]

I thought it was about judging people by the content of their character.

No.

Now you're just taking parts of a speech and running with it.

No it wasn't. You are right. But don't you think that freedom for blacks directly applies to freedom for others? Was the name of the game to give black people freedom, then forget about other groups? For some, apparently so.

To be harsh and blunt, at the time, it was about minorities, women, and sortakinda jews in that order. Anything else was an afterthought. So yeah. It was. And for many it still is. And a lot of the same issues are still prevalent today - a good number of people are still dialed in on those things as well.

The Gay Rights Movement needs to be its own entity. Because even when marriage and civil unions or whatever is afforded, there will still be a shitload of issues within that community.

[ElectricThunder]

Pretty sad that these pastors are so determined to be on the wrong side of these things that they went to the trouble of raising all this noise instead of just letting it be and watching the progress unfold.

We're all in this thing together as human beings.

[PhoenixPause]

I am. Because that's where this conversation always seems to go. When you start off saying that "discrimination is discrimination" you're saying nothing than "bad stuff is bad". Specifically in this case. It isn't even about the black community as much as it is the religious communities - like it almost always is.

You come into every gay/black thread and basically say this. Whether you like it or not, discrimination is discrimination - and any fight for civil rights can and should be compared to the Civil Rights movement. We're not here to litigate an Oppression Olympics to determine which group got fucked over worse. The issue is that a group of people are having their civil rights violated, and they deserve some god damn help and acknowledgement.

To be frank, I'm tired of you and other young black people being so defensive over a movement you weren't even apart of. Civil rights are civil rights, end of story.

[NullPointer]

No.

Yes.

"All men are created equal" has been the rallying cry for many different issues, classes and people since this country began. Some ideas are larger than one time and place. MLK's dream speech was about those timeless ideas, but given focus to specific issues of that period and that struggle. The ideas themselves are not so narrow, and they endure and re-emerge, as they should.

[Byakuya769]

Black people are less than 15% of the country, we aren't the ones keeping gay marriage illegal so why are we the focus?? We already get blamed for crime and welfare why not just throw another log of BS on the fire!!

Same reason poor whites who share many of the same structural barriers are the most racist towards blacks. Divide and conquer.

[DY_nasty]

I'd disagree and say that it means that discrimination knows many forms, and its larger than one issue, one race or one gender, or one tradition, or one set of laws in one time and place.

Do you think that a woman is discriminated against in the workplace for the same reasons that a black man is? What about a gay man now?

Those are 3 kind of issues that are vastly different and all have entire histories that form and reinforce problems that are multi-dimensional.

You can gloss it up and say that "its one large issue" but all it does is slap a shitty paint job over a bullet riddled wall.

Yes. "All men are created equal" has been the rallying cry for many different issues, classes and people since this country began. Some ideas are larger than one time and place. MLK's dream speech was about those timeless ideas, but given focus to specific issues of that time. The ideas themselves endure though, as they should.

A rallying cry is great for speeches and motivating moves to be made. It doesn't actually get shit done directly.

I'm all for ideology and rainbows and candy and equality and shit. But realism is necessary too. You can't handle each of these issues the same way. Except for maybe in a speech or two.

[Dragon]

How dare the gay rights movement adopt Martin Luther King Jr.! Only black people (and by black people I mean African Americans, who do these Caribbean Americans think they are??!!) are allowed to use him as a model human being.

If it isn't clear I'm kidding, but please people the whole "but the civil rights movement was only about certain groups so the gay rights movement should be excluded" is the biggest nonsense I've read on here in quite some time.

[Reuenthal]

Why does the media keep focusing so much on what black people think on this issue when there are more white people in the US against gay marriage than black people? Let's hear the opinions of the Mormon, Catholic and Jewish clergy men!

In these case the black pastors themselves made themselves the focus by bashing NAACP.

Those of the black community who show support for the rights of their fellow human beings also bring attention to themselves but positive attention to themselves and not a negative one. NAACP for example. And in that case I don't see why positive focus would be a problem.

[DY_nasty]

You come into every gay/black thread and basically say this. Whether you like it or not, discrimination is discrimination - and any fight for civil rights can and should be compared to the Civil Rights movement. We're not here to litigate an Oppression Olympics to determine which group got fucked over worse. The issue is that a group of people are having their civil rights violated, and they deserve some god damn help and acknowledgement. To be frank, I'm tired of you and other young black people being so defensive over a movement you weren't even apart of. Civil rights are civil rights, end of story.

Its not even the same thing.

Would you "raise awareness for natural disasters" and lump New Orleans, Haiti, and Japan into same the pamphlet? Then why would you do it for social issues?

I'm not comparing asswhoopings. I'm saying look at things for what they are instead of trying to lump shit together for the sake of making an argument easier.

[NullPointer]

Do you think that a woman is discriminated against in the workplace for the same reasons that a black man is? What about a gay man now? Those are 3 kind of issues that are vastly different and all have entire histories that form and reinforce problems that are multi-dimensional. You can gloss it up and say that "its one large issue" but all it does is slap a shitty paint job over a bullet riddled wall. A rallying cry is great for speeches and motivating moves to be made. It doesn't actually get shit done directly. I'm all for ideology and rainbows and candy and equality and shit. But realism is necessary too. You can't handle each of these issues the same way. Except for maybe in a speech or two.

Nothing in what I've said balances one form of discrimination over another, or implies that all people suffer equally, or directs people towards one set of action, or advises that we ditch the real world.

We're not here to litigate an Oppression Olympics to determine which group got fucked over worse. The issue is that a group of people are having their civil rights violated, and they deserve some god damn help and acknowledgement.

This. So damn much, this.

[Sai-kun]

Nope, I'm the guy who says there is weak evidence at best at people being born gay. Gays have a choice of committing their acts, just as heterosexuals have a choice. Again I'm guessing, but I bet the CAAP is against premarital sex.

I'm glad no one responded seriously to this part of your post. Puh-leeeeeze.

[Dragon]

By the way it should be noted, numerous rappers >>>>> these pastors. Would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic considering what some of these rappers like Jay-Z have rapped about in the past.

[DY_nasty]

Nothing in what I've said balances one form of discrimination over another, or implies that all people suffer equally, or directs people towards one set of action, or advises that we ditch the real world.

Then what are you saying? And be clear because its entirely possible that I misinterpreted you.

I'm not a "raise awareness" kind of guy. I'm a "this is the specific issue" person. If you want to quote speeches and stuff, do that - but jumping from a speech to practicality is a big jump.

[border]

That's not how it works. Unless the Bible says that black people shouldn't be allowed to vote, your post makes no sense.

A law is unjust if it contradicts God's Law or natural law, according to this relatively narrow and shallow interpretation of Dr. King. Therefore Jim Crow laws were just.

[ivedoneyourmom]

The Gay Rights Movement needs to be its own entity. Because even when marriage and civil unions or whatever is afforded, there will still be a shitload of issues within that community.

Does this however mean that NAACP can't be in support of The Gay Rights Movement?

[BlueTsunami]

The LGBT just need to adapt the MLK image to their cause, I guess since the African American community don't want to share. How 'bout Martino Luscious Kingsley the Third? Crevat wearing, no bullshit taking fabulous motherfucker.



"This pastor needs to shut his dry ass lips and go back to whichever Arkansas rock he crawled out from. Mmmhmmm."