[jaxword]

What do you think you are seeing here?

It's showing the PROPER Mason handshake.

Saddam messed it up when he was a friend of the US and Donald Rumsfeld was so mad that it all went downhill from there:

[gcubed]

For you masons if you wanna freak out a mormon when you meet a devout one take out one of those secret handshakes. A mason did this to me once, freaked me the hell out. [I1MG]http://i.imgur.com/RBcQU.jpg[/IMG]

was the mason having a hand cramp?

in all seriousness there is so much information on the internet that you have to wade through a load of bullshit to find anything thats semi-accurate. I watched a special on the history channel a year or two ago that was stunningly accurate.

[SamVimes]

was the mason having a hand cramp? in all seriousness there is so much information on the internet that you have to wade through a load of bullshit to find anything thats semi-accurate. I watched a special on the history channel a year or two ago that was stunningly accurate.

Yeah but i mean this stuff happened in Italy not so long ago: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_Due

[ronito]

was the mason having a hand cramp? in all seriousness there is so much information on the internet that you have to wade through a load of bullshit to find anything thats semi-accurate. I watched a special on the history channel a year or two ago that was stunningly accurate.

Well if he did have a hand cramp he had it for three separate handshakes.

[Al-ibn Kermit]

My friend is a conspiracy nut (Illuminati, 9/11 truther, etc) so of course he reads all about the Freemasons. Once, he met a guy at a college orientation that he thought for sure was a Mason so he went up to him to do the secret handshake and the guy replied "Oh so you're one too?". He said he wasn't but that he read up a lot about them.

They started talking about the organization and a few other people around them got involved in the conversation. But then, my friend asked him point blank if the Masons ever talk about a new world order. This guy just dodges the question and says he can't really talk about that and he tries to bail out of the discussion while the other people around are asking why he can't just answer the question.

Personally, I think they're all just a bunch of role-playing jerk offs.

[Ether_Snake]

What do you think you are seeing here?

They are both doing a handshake with the extended pointer finger.

Also, I'm pretty sure the Copiale Cipher described the whole Free Mason stuff. It's a German text dating from the 1700s and was decoded in 2011.

English translation available here: http://stp.lingfil.uu.se/~bea/copiale/

It gets interesting at page 24. Then gets boring when it talks about rituals. Some of the untranslated words are in **, but are easy to figure out. *Tri* = lodge, *Nee* = member, *O* = order/organisation, *star* = traditions, etc.

It's stupid how it's clearly a Masonic text, yet Wikipedia and other university sites refer to it as "a mysterious sect obsessed with eye surgery", errr... It even describes their logo as a compass, a big G, etc.

[Meadows]

Reproduces social class inequalities and reinforces male dominance in the upper-echelons of society.

A force for bad in the world.

[DigitalDevil]

Reproduces social class inequalities and reinforces male dominance in the upper-echelons of society. A force for bad in the world.

This is such an ignorant statement.... You don't even know what you're talking about. A force for bad in the world? Really?

[WanderingWind]

This is such an ignorant statement.... You don't even know what you're talking about. A force for bad in the world? Really?

Dan Brown told him.

I'm going to an open-house meeting next month. I figure if I want to know more, I might as well get it from the source.

[Game Analyst]

My wife's grandfather was a 33rd degree Mason. She still has two of the pocket books that he was given. Both can be read online for free.

Shavers Monitor and Manual for ceremonies
The Written Work and Lectures of the Three Degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry

Her grandfather, on reaching the 33rd degree, was told that god is Satan. I think that pretty much shows that all people should stay away from them.

Here are some quotes on exposing the Masonic order.

http://libcfl.com/articles/mason2.htm "ALL truly dogmatic religions have issued from the Kabalah and return to it; everything scientific and grand in the religious dreams of all the Illuminati, Jacob Boeheme, Swedenborg, Saint Martin, and others, is borrowed from the Kabalah: all Masonic associations owe to it their Secrets and their Symbols." Morals and Dogma p. 744. http://www.ritualabusefree.org/Immor...nd%20Dogma.htm "The God of nineteen-twentieths of the Christian world is only Bel, Moloch, Zeus, or at best Osiris, Mithras, or Adonai, under another name, worshipped with the old Pagan ceremonies and ritualistic formulas." (Morals and Dogma, p.295-296) "The first Masonic Legislator whose memory is preserved to us by history, was Buddha,..(Morals and Dogma, p.277) "Lucifer, the Light-bearer! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! Is it he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish Souls? Doubt it not!" (Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma, p.321) To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees - The Masonic religion should be, by all of us initiates of the high degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine....Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately Adonay is also God." (Occult Theocrasy, p.220-221), [Edith Starr Miller, The Christian Book Club of America] (July 14, 1889 Albert Pike) "This legend was purely astronomical. Osiris Hiram was the sun, Isis the weeping virgin the moon. Typhon represented by the three ruffians was the symbol of winter, which destroys the fecundating and fertilizing power of the sun, thus as it were, depriving him of life." Albert G. Mackey's Lexicon of Freemasonry, p. 130. The cleansing of the sanctuary... By Daniel Sidney Warne "The Masonic legend stands by itself, unsupported by history or other than its own traditions; yet we readily recognize in Hiram Abiff the Osiris of the Egyptians, the Mithras of the Persians, the Bacchus of the Greeks . . . , whose passion, death and resurrection were celebrated by these people respectfully." Past Grand Master Pierson's Traditions of Freemasonry, p. 240.

[Ikael]

The Masons once started containing some seeds of knowdegle and truth, but nowadays there are far too many different orders that strayed far too much from the original ideas of the order, me thinks. Stay away from the ones obsessed over power and influence, and try to get into the ones that do care about spirituality first, complicated rituals nonwithstanding. Masonic orders are an extremely mixed bag.

[DigitalDevil]

My wife's grandfather was a 33rd degree Mason. She still has two of the pocket books that he was given. Both can be read online for free. Shavers Monitor and Manual for ceremonies The Written Work and Lectures of the Three Degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry Her grandfather, on reaching the 33rd degree, was told that god is Satan. I think that pretty much shows that all people should stay away from them. Here are some quotes on exposing the Masonic order.

Those books you have there have exactly zero to do with 33rd degree masonry. You guys need to watch fewer movies/after school specials on what freemasonry is about.

[DGRE]

Those books you have there have exactly zero to do with 33rd degree masonry. You guys need to watch fewer movies/after school specials on what freemasonry is about.

He didn't say they did have anything to do with the 33rd degree. Read it again.

[Al-ibn Kermit]

The Masons once started containing some seeds of knowdegle and truth, but nowadays there are far too many different orders that strayed far too much from the original ideas of the order, me thinks. Stay away from the ones obsessed over power and influence, and try to get into the ones that do care about spirituality first, complicated rituals nonwithstanding. Masonic orders are an extremely mixed bag.

It sounds like it makes more sense to not get involved with secret societies in the first place.

[theignoramus]

i heard tell Jay HOVA was a mason.

[Meadows]

This is such an ignorant statement.... You don't even know what you're talking about. A force for bad in the world? Really?

Yeah, because what could be harmful to a male only organisation that acts as a community of the rich and powerful, only allowing those that are invited or sponsored to join.

I don't know about conspiracy theories, im looking at it sociologically

[viciousDC]

Odd thread.

I joined in 2005 after getting out of the military when I was still working for big defense. A fair amount of the guys I knew in the local VFW and AL were in as well so I joined up. I joined for the same reason I'm involved in other civic local clubs, it's a great way to meet people with something in common with you, and it's a great way to contribute to your community.

There isn't any actual difference between Masonry and other clubs. You can go to meetings and events, you do some charity, and you have some say in what your group does. I know there is a lot of "sinister" connotations to it, but it's mostly bullshit. The only sort of spiritual nonsense is they require that you have a belief in a "supreme being", but that higher power could be the universe, science, god, it's not really a big deal. A lot of the mysterious stuff is just conspiracy nonsense.

Also you aren't "invited" you petition them to join, it's fairly hassle free.

Maybe it's different in other places but in the greater DC area you have lots of little clubs and civic organizations that people are part of. There is a decent amount of cross polination as well. I know a lot of people who joined the Masons were military veterans or other foreign service types.

I'll also note that most civic clubs or fraternal organizations have some level of hocus pocus nonsense or goofy ass traditions because "it's always been that way", ignore it.

[Silas Lang]

Haha I see a lot of misconceptions in this thread.

I joined a few years ago. I have a few uncles that are in it as well. Seeing how a lot of the founders of America were in it and being interested in history, I decided to join. It's pretty much just a fraternity, albeit a very old one that is a bit more serious than a lot of college ones.

Odd thread. I joined in 2005 after getting out of the military when I was still working for big defense. A fair amount of the guys I knew in the local VFW and AL were in as well so I joined up. I joined for the same reason I'm involved in other civic local clubs, it's a great way to meet people with something in common with you, and it's a great way to contribute to your community. There isn't any actual difference between Masonry and other clubs. You can go to meetings and events, you do some charity, and you have some say in what your group does. I know there is a lot of "sinister" connotations to it, but it's mostly bullshit. The only sort of spiritual nonsense is they require that you have a belief in a "supreme being", but that higher power could be the universe, science, god, it's not really a big deal. A lot of the mysterious stuff is just conspiracy nonsense. Also you aren't "invited" you petition them to join, it's fairly hassle free. Maybe it's different in other places but in the greater DC area you have lots of little clubs and civic organizations that people are part of. There is a decent amount of cross polination as well. I know a lot of people who joined the Masons were military veterans or other foreign service types. I'll also note that most civic clubs or fraternal organizations have some level of hocus pocus nonsense or goofy ass traditions because "it's always been that way", ignore it.

Yup, pretty much this. People ask me about it when they find out that I'm a member, thinking I know the all secrets to the universe or something. lol

[F#A#Oo]

Nice topic but it seems the GAF Masons can only confirm and deny when it comes to input which is a shame as it would be nice to have some questions answered.

My school tutor once professed his ties to masonry and talked about charity stuff they do but he also told me it can serve as a networking type thing where you all look out for one another in all aspects. He said he achieved all his work related goals such as becoming a head teacher at a school. I. guess it has some empowerment ability allowing people to climb up the socio-economic ladder. It's interesting I guess as it can be a sort of support network away from family and friends. I'm assuming this to be the case though from brief conversations I can recall.

If I was motivated by money and social status I could see myself being interested.

[viciousDC]

I think the entire "secrets of the universe" crap stems from the fact that a lot of influential people in our history were Masons. On the other hand a lot of them went to Harvard or Yale, a lot of them were in the military as well, and we hardly view those organizations as nefarious.

People also get confused in that you have to be "accepted", which isn't all that odd actually. I had to get accepted into the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American legion and prove that I met their requirements. You pay your yearly dues and can go to your "hall", which is nothing more than a bunch of old war vets hanging out in a place that only allows old war vets in. Social days are nothing more than illegal poker games, vast amounts of drinking, and flagrantly violating the local ordances about smoking in a place that serves food. Speaking of which, the food and drinks are insanely cheap because the greater organization pays for it and some legal hanky panky (not sure how legal it is but nobody cares). We also do various charity works, raising money for vets, children, blah blah blah.

Being a Mason is pretty much the same thing, in fact a lot of the same people are in both. Granted being a veteran helps speak towards "respectable man of the community" which is a requirement to join the club.

My school tutor once professed his ties to masonry and talked about charity stuff they do but he also told me it can serve as a networking type thing where you all look out for one another in all aspects. He said he achieved all his work related goals such as becoming a head teacher at a school. I. guess it has some empowerment ability allowing people to climb up the socio-economic ladder. It's interesting I guess as it can be a sort of support network away from family and friends. I'm assuming this to be the case though from brief conversations I can recall.

Anything can be a networking opportunity. Masonry is a social club that has rules to insure they get like minded new members who fit in well. The point of a social club, be it the Masons, a veterans club, a golf club, is to meet similar people. Is there an advantage, sure. You'll probably here people talking about when a new job opens up where they work, and it's a great way to make connections you normally wouldn't have.

There is nothing sinister about this though. It's not as if people are going out and only hiring people from their group, that's what Ivy League colleges are for! But you might get a bead on a potential job from hearing about it.

From my personal experience some social clubs are better than others, they tend to attract more serious memberships. I'm a in a couple liberal/Democratic clubs as well, they are largely a waste. It's mostly fresh out of college or younger types and they are female dominated. The kickball/softball games are fun, the drinking is epic, and they do some good like donate time to soup kitchens, but they are mostly joke clubs for naive young dolts who want to say they are doing something. The networking is similarly horrible with job at insert-non-profit-that-pays-like-crap-here chances. By contrast the Masons and Veterans clubs are far more serious. When charity is done large sums of money can be raised quickly, as the members are older people in position to do something are often members or friends of members.

Don't get the idea that Masons join because of money or status, that's not the case at all. However the Masons attract a different type of person, usually older and of much higher personal quality than say "the young Democrats of Washington DC". One's a drinking club for people that are serious about their life, the other is a drinking club for people to whine about other people and march around with signs.

[luxarific]

My wife's grandfather was a 33rd degree Mason. She still has two of the pocket books that he was given. Both can be read online for free. Her grandfather, on reaching the 33rd degree, was told that god is Satan. I think that pretty much shows that all people should stay away from them. Here are some quotes on exposing the Masonic order.

My father is a 33rd. I'm sending him this thread since I know he will be hugely entertained by all the conspiracies he's supposed to be involved in.

[Game Analyst]

My father is a 33rd. I'm sending him this thread since I know he will be hugely entertained by all the conspiracies he's supposed to be involved in.

Please do.

[Hari Seldon]

I actually really want to join the Masons, but have a young kid and I am really busy at work and cannot really commit to do the charity work atm. I mainly want to join to do charity and meet new people.

[Hari Seldon]

Anything can be a networking opportunity. Masonry is a social club that has rules to insure they get like minded new members who fit in well. The point of a social club, be it the Masons, a veterans club, a golf club, is to meet similar people. Is there an advantage, sure. You'll probably here people talking about when a new job opens up where they work, and it's a great way to make connections you normally wouldn't have.

That is another reason why I want to join. My father in law is in a couple of the Catholic societies and my wife and I have benefited from his connections with a job waiting for us when we graduated college, and hookups to really good mortgage brokers and accountants.

[Silas Lang]

I actually really want to join the Masons, but have a young kid and I am really busy at work and cannot really commit to do the charity work atm. I mainly want to join to do charity and meet new people.

Hey man don't let that stop ya if your interested! You can be as active or non active as you want as long as you pay your dues. Members are very understanding of time constraints pertaining to family/ work etc.

[viciousDC]

I actually really want to join the Masons, but have a young kid and I am really busy at work and cannot really commit to do the charity work atm. I mainly want to join to do charity and meet new people.

I think you are lost on just how much "time" one has to spend at clubs or fraternities. The internetz has done a lot to change things. How much time you put it into these sort of things is completely up to you. Of course how much you get back out of these things is directly related to how much effort you put into them. Keep in mind though that a lot of clubs out there are populated with people who have kids, it won't be odd at all. Nobody is going to give you shit for having a family.

That is another reason why I want to join. My father in law is in a couple of the Catholic societies and my wife and I have benefited from his connections with a job waiting for us when we graduated college, and hookups to really good mortgage brokers and accountants.

I'm not really religious. Chalk me up as one of those "the entire universe is a higher being and it all happens through science" types, but you'll probably find that in your community, the church, veterans organizations, civic organizations (which is where I'd place Masonry), have a lot of cross pollenization between members.

I joined the VFW because a military buddy of mine told me to and it was great to network. A lot of the other military people got recruited into the Masons via the VFW or their churches. So even though I don't attend church, I have access to church networks via the VFW or the Masons.

Networking is really about making sure you have access and information to people.

[Timedog]

Wow, I want to be a freemason.

[Nightshade1765]

Reproduces social class inequalities and reinforces male dominance in the upper-echelons of society. A force for bad in the world.

I really don't think that's totally true.

[Omegasquash]

I actually really want to join the Masons, but have a young kid and I am really busy at work and cannot really commit to do the charity work atm. I mainly want to join to do charity and meet new people.

I've not met a Mason yet that would ask you to put time in that you ought to be spending with your family. If you can make time for one, maybe two evenings a month then you're golden, and that's just in the beginning.

In addition, Free Masonry is not static...they do change and adapt to the members (by and large). If there's an older guy there that would look down on you for being home with your child, then whatever. That's not your problem...it's theirs.

[J.W.Crazy]

My Grandfather was a Mason for a few years in the 80s and 90s after years as a member of the carpenter's union which seems to be full of masons. He's said pretty much the same as what some people have said here but in a less flattering way. At first it was just a bunch of guys who never grew up after college trying to keep that dream alive but the further you get into to it the more the weird tradition stuff takes hold. He's a very honest and principled man so he refused to give any specifics on the grounds that he'd taken an oath of secrecy, and I believe embarrassment, but called it "cult-like".

He came away from the experience with a very negative opinion of the organization. People are allowed opportunities they haven't earned and aren't qualified for because of their position as a mason. They're "helped" when they're in trouble with the law. Their trust isn't earned, it's created through shared experience in "rituals" and the understanding that some of the things you say and do aren't things you'd want outsiders to know about. He said their wasn't anything particularly insidious about it, the opposite actually, but a combination of blind faith in tradition and adolescent minds make it prone to corruption and ultimately a bad thing.

[Indrid Cold1]

I think the entire "secrets of the universe" crap stems from the fact that a lot of influential people in our history were Masons. On the other hand a lot of them went to Harvard or Yale, a lot of them were in the military as well, and we hardly view those organizations as nefarious. People also get confused in that you have to be "accepted", which isn't all that odd actually. I had to get accepted into the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American legion and prove that I met their requirements. You pay your yearly dues and can go to your "hall", which is nothing more than a bunch of old war vets hanging out in a place that only allows old war vets in. Social days are nothing more than illegal poker games, vast amounts of drinking, and flagrantly violating the local ordances about smoking in a place that serves food. Speaking of which, the food and drinks are insanely cheap because the greater organization pays for it and some legal hanky panky (not sure how legal it is but nobody cares). We also do various charity works, raising money for vets, children, blah blah blah. Being a Mason is pretty much the same thing, in fact a lot of the same people are in both. Granted being a veteran helps speak towards "respectable man of the community" which is a requirement to join the club. Anything can be a networking opportunity. Masonry is a social club that has rules to insure they get like minded new members who fit in well. The point of a social club, be it the Masons, a veterans club, a golf club, is to meet similar people. Is there an advantage, sure. You'll probably here people talking about when a new job opens up where they work, and it's a great way to make connections you normally wouldn't have. There is nothing sinister about this though. It's not as if people are going out and only hiring people from their group, that's what Ivy League colleges are for! But you might get a bead on a potential job from hearing about it. From my personal experience some social clubs are better than others, they tend to attract more serious memberships. I'm a in a couple liberal/Democratic clubs as well, they are largely a waste. It's mostly fresh out of college or younger types and they are female dominated. The kickball/softball games are fun, the drinking is epic, and they do some good like donate time to soup kitchens, but they are mostly joke clubs for naive young dolts who want to say they are doing something. The networking is similarly horrible with job at insert-non-profit-that-pays-like-crap-here chances. By contrast the Masons and Veterans clubs are far more serious. When charity is done large sums of money can be raised quickly, as the members are older people in position to do something are often members or friends of members. Don't get the idea that Masons join because of money or status, that's not the case at all. However the Masons attract a different type of person, usually older and of much higher personal quality than say "the young Democrats of Washington DC". One's a drinking club for people that are serious about their life, the other is a drinking club for people to whine about other people and march around with signs.

These actually sound like a hell of a place to get laid, wish they had them where I'm from.

The Masonic stuff is very interesting, something i'd like to be a part of eventually. Not quite a fine upstanding man of the community myself just yet, though.

[Bay Maximus]

Her grandfather, on reaching the 33rd degree, was told that god is Satan. I think that pretty much shows that all people should stay away from them. Here are some quotes on exposing the Masonic order.

Is it possible that God is Satan and he's just trolling the world?

[Silas Lang]

I think the entire "secrets of the universe" crap stems from the fact that a lot of influential people in our history were Masons. On the other hand a lot of them went to Harvard or Yale, a lot of them were in the military as well, and we hardly view those organizations as nefarious.

Yeah I agree. I think it also stems from the fact that when people here about "secrets", it tends to make their imagination run wild.

My father is a 33rd. I'm sending him this thread since I know he will be hugely entertained by all the conspiracies he's supposed to be involved in.

Haha he won't leave dissapointed.

I'm not really religious. Chalk me up as one of those "the entire universe is a higher being and it all happens through science" types, but you'll probably find that in your community, the church, veterans organizations, civic organizations (which is where I'd place Masonry), have a lot of cross pollenization between members. I joined the VFW because a military buddy of mine told me to and it was great to network. A lot of the other military people got recruited into the Masons via the VFW or their churches. So even though I don't attend church, I have access to church networks via the VFW or the Masons. Networking is really about making sure you have access and information to people.

I hold similar beliefs as well in regards to religion. Most of the guys at my lodge are Christians and there is indeed a lot of cross pollination between church networks and masons. That's one reason it is amusing some people think it's "Satanic" and such. Not true at all. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

[Drazgul]

Is possible that god is Satan and he's just trolling the world?

In high school I wrote a short story of how Satan actually won the war in heaven, imprisoned God into hell and has been posing as him and sullying his good name ever since. My (religious) teacher didn't much care for it even tho everyone else liked it. :P

[viciousDC]

I really don't think that's totally true.

It's bullshit. The thing is that "clubs" be it Masonry, veterans/military clubs, church clubs, cosmos club (my dad is a member of this one), or whatever tend to attract motivated individuals. I'll use the VFW (Veterans of Foreign Wars) as it's a relatively non controversial group that doesn't stir up the sort of "global conspiracy" nonsense the Masons do to prove a point.

There are a lot of people in the military yet it's only a fraction of American society as a whole (less than 1%), and some values tend to be shared among it's members. The more serious you take your military duties and values the more likely you are to join a civic club or fraternity. Not shockingly their are duties and stations within the fraternity. So the guys you get in say the VFW or the AL are more gung-ho about military and community service than your average grunt. Thus the fraternal orders tend to be packed with hard chargers and go-getters.

I'll note these people tend to do better in life than your average military person. But it's not because of their membership in the organization. Rather it's the same qualities that drive a person to join a military fraternity for life, pay money into it, do charitable work with it, tend to be the kind of people that do better in life and it's a group of similar people.

This creates the illusion that these sort of organizations are only out for their own and serve to protect some sort of power structure. Especially when you see members of the VFW at all levels of government and foreign policy think tanks. But keep in mind the same motivations that push a veteran to become a member of the VFW and continue to serve the public good also drive them to look for those sorts of public service jobs.

People are allowed opportunities they haven't earned and aren't qualified for because of their position as a mason.

This is nonsense. They might be more likely to hear about a job at a meeting or they might have a chance to meet a person in a position of power but this can be done at church, at an opera, at a college alum meeting, or any other place.

They're "helped" when they're in trouble with the law.

You might have a lawyer or a cop in your lodge, but there isn't anything illegal going on here. And there are far better ways to ingratiate your self to the local police force than becoming a Mason. If you want to get away with crimes your best bet is to play in the local police poker games and make some inroads there and kiss ass to some lawyers. Now Masonry may give you a chance to meet a cop in a situation your normally wouldn't, but that's about it.

Their trust isn't earned, it's created through shared experience in "rituals" and the understanding that some of the things you say and do aren't things you'd want outsiders to know about. He said their wasn't anything particularly insidious about it, the opposite actually, but a combination of blind faith in tradition and adolescent minds make it prone to corruption and ultimately a bad thing.

I'm going to tread lightly here but... this isn't exactly out of the ordinary or shocking. Having been in the military the Navy has a lot more bizarre traditions and rituals than one would think, so do most religions. Traditions, goofy ones at that, in old organizations are common. They are usually kept around because they are traditions and for fun. I don't know what you think goes on but I've heard a lot of amusing things over the years from random people when they talk about Masonry.

[viciousDC]

These actually sound like a hell of a place to get laid, wish they had them where I'm from.

Go find any club for young Democrats/Liberals and you'll find it's all the same. Easy sex and fast speed dating who's idea of civic duty is largely futzing around a soup kitchen and running around with signs bitching about the man.

Yeah I agree. I think it also stems from the fact that when people here about "secrets", it tends to make their imagination run wild.

You have no idea. I was in the Navy with a security clearance working in intel and operations for an Admiral and worked out the Pentagon. I now work in global development for an NGO and am a Mason. I might as well be a lizard man to some people.

I hold similar beliefs as well in regards to religion. Most of the guys at my lodge are Christians and there is indeed a lot of cross pollination between church networks and masons. That's one reason it is amusing some people think it's "Satanic" and such. Not true at all. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

Yeah we get that a LOT here. What's funny is the lodges (including the George Washington massive one in Alexandria VA and one in Dupont on the tip of the Pentagram) here are some of the most "conspiratorial" ones.... yet are open to the public and post all their members, events, and blah blah on their websites.

Secret order my ass!

For a bit of comedic value DC is also full of some major scientology buildings as well. Now those guys keep secrets and actively try and recruit people. Masonry is pretty open to the public and doesn't recruit.

[Timedog]

What is the fee for being a freemason? Maybe I can join sometime when I have more money.

[Nightshade1765]

There are a lot of people in the military yet it's only a fraction of American society as a whole (less than 1%), and some values tend to be shared among it's members. The more serious you take your military duties and values the more likely you are to join a civic club or fraternity. Not shockingly their are duties and stations within the fraternity. So the guys you get in say the VFW or the AL are more gung-ho about military and community service than your average grunt. Thus the fraternal orders tend to be packed with hard chargers and go-getters. I'll note these people tend to do better in life than your average military person. But it's not because of their membership in the organization. Rather it's the same qualities that drive a person to join a military fraternity for life, pay money into it, do charitable work with it, tend to be the kind of people that do better in life and it's a group of similar people.

Believe me, I understand. I'm in a fraternity, and I've gotten more than a few, "You're part of the rich elite keeping poor people out." Talks before.

Couldn't be farther from the truth.

[viciousDC]

What is the fee for being a freemason? Maybe I can join sometime when I have more money.

100 bucks to apply, 100 bucks for your degrees up to third which is 200 and then whatever yearly lodge fees (about 170 in my case), though you are expected to do some charitable work. This can be donations, physical work, community service, or some mix of it, the expectation is simply that you do it.

Find the lodge for your state and your local lodge, the fee's and costs should be explained there and in the application package (in .pdf format). They should also have contact information for their local people if you need further assistance.

Frankly almost everything is explained on their websites.

[Game Analyst]

Is it possible that God is Satan and he's just trolling the world?

What do you mean?

[J.W.Crazy]

This is nonsense. They might be more likely to hear about a job at a meeting or they might have a chance to meet a person in a position of power but this can be done at church, at an opera, at a college alum meeting, or any other place.

Churches, operas, college alums, or any other group of people usually don't keep secrets as a rule. The nature of Free Masonry and groups like it lend themselves easily to abuse.

You might have a lawyer or a cop in your lodge, but there isn't anything illegal going on here. And there are far better ways to ingratiate your self to the local police force than becoming a Mason. If you want to get away with crimes your best bet is to play in the local police poker games and make some inroads there and kiss ass to some lawyers. Now Masonry may give you a chance to meet a cop in a situation your normally wouldn't, but that's about it.

Masons are so loosely organized you couldn't possibly say that with any certainty. I have no reason to believe my Grandfather was being dishonest about it. He was much more critical of himself for even getting involved than he was the masons.

I'm going to tread lightly here but... this isn't exactly out of the ordinary or shocking. Having been in the military the Navy has a lot more bizarre traditions and rituals than one would think, so do most religions. Traditions, goofy ones at that, in old organizations are common. They are usually kept around because they are traditions and for fun. I don't know what you think goes on but I've heard a lot of amusing things over the years from random people when they talk about Masonry.

I don't have the vaguest idea what goes on nor do I care. I do know that the secretive nature of groups like the masons is mostly a bluff to the outsiders but also more importantly to the rank and file members. I'm sure there's a great deal of comfort for many people in thinking that they have this special group of like minded people who they share some secret experience or bond with. It's also a great breeding ground for corruption.

If people enjoy it that's wonderful. Anything you can do to make your life more meaningful is great. I won't ignore the inherent flaws simply because it's made some people happy though. Your trust in people shouldn't be manufactured.

The biggest problem my Grandfather had with the masons was something very simple. There are levels. The things he learned about being a mason as he progressed were sometimes things he wasn't comfortable with. Things that would have prevented him from joining had they been known to him from the beginning. Originally he saw it as ranking or chain of command but as he progressed he found that they served as a vetting process for what information was allowed to be known. He wasn't comfortable with that. He wasn't comfortable with knowing that the people he "trusted" had lied to him about certain things when he first joined. It wasn't the nature of the "secrets" or even what they were that bothered him but that they were being used to control him. To unite and divide the group according to their degree.

[Silas Lang]

You have no idea. I was in the Navy with a security clearance working in intel and operations for an Admiral and worked out the Pentagon. I now work in global development for an NGO and am a Mason. I might as well be a lizard man to some people. Yeah we get that a LOT here. What's funny is the lodges (including the George Washington massive one in Alexandria VA and one in Dupont on the tip of the Pentagram) here are some of the most "conspiratorial" ones.... yet are open to the public and post all their members, events, and blah blah on their websites. Secret order my ass! For a bit of comedic value DC is also full of some major scientology buildings as well. Now those guys keep secrets and actively try and recruit people. Masonry is pretty open to the public and doesn't recruit.

Haha wow I bet you get people speculating all kinds things about what you do/know. My girlfriend's friend was legitimately scared of masons and freaked out when I told her I was one. She believed in all that conspiracy crap about the Illuminati and what not. lol Luckily she knows better now.

Yeah people do tend to forget that there are public events as well! There are even a few ceremonies open to the public. We like to do things like pancake breakfasts/ yard sales and the like here to raise money which are open to the public.

What is the fee for being a freemason? Maybe I can join sometime when I have more money.

I'm not sure but it may vary by state. Here if I'm remembering correctly I think it was around 100 bucks to go through the degrees (not all at once). You only pay once a year, and if you legitimately have problems paying your dues, I think they are willing to work with ya.

[Rebel Leader]

Please do.

and make sure he posts the passwords! =D

[viciousDC]

Churches, operas, college alums, or any other group of people usually don't keep secrets as a rule. The nature of Free Masonry and groups like it lend themselves easily to abuse.

There are tons of Church (and other religious) organizations that are extremely secretive and only divulge information to their own members. Even within the greater church some sects are more reclusive and discerning in their membership. Likewise colleges hold information and resources only accessable by their alumni and most colleges have organizations with strict membership requirements within them.

Maybe I'm just biased but when I was in the military we sure has hell kept what we were doing secret from other people in the military let alone civilians. And Navy traditions are strictly for the Navy and not talked about much outside of it and some of them are rather crazy. Hell my specific unit had all sorts of nonsense from blood pinning on up that's usually kept from other people.

You should stop using the word "secret" that's a loaded word and conjures up all sorts of illuminati type nonsense. The Free Masons are a private organization and like all private organizations they keep a lot of information private to their members. Even still if you bother to ask through official channels it's not all that private. You can walk straight into a masonic temple and look at all the stuff. You can even go to their public events and talk right to them. You just can't go in on the two days a month there is a private meeting, not because we are "secretly plotting to take over the world" but because private meetings are private yo!

Hell, you can walk into my lodge and nobody will stop you. You try to walk into my American Legion post and they'll slide open the view slot on the door ask you what you want and if you aren't a member they'll tell you to piss right the fuck off and leave them the hell alone. Do you think the American Legion is up to no good? Because it's just a bunch of war vets drinking beer, playing cards, and doing charity work! But since it's a private club what we do is private!

I don't have the vaguest idea what goes on nor do I care. I do know that the secretive nature of groups like the masons is mostly a bluff to the outsiders but also more importantly to the rank and file members. I'm sure there's a great deal of comfort for many people in thinking that they have this special group of like minded people who they share some secret experience or bond with. It's also a great breeding ground for corruption. If people enjoy it that's wonderful. Anything you can do to make your life more meaningful is great. I won't ignore the inherent flaws simply because it's made some people happy though. Your trust in people shouldn't be manufactured. The biggest problem my Grandfather had with the masons was something very simple. There are levels. The things he learned about being a mason as he progressed were sometimes things he wasn't comfortable with. Things that would have prevented him from joining had they been known to him from the beginning. Originally he saw it as ranking or chain of command but as he progressed he found that they served as a vetting process for what information was allowed to be known. He wasn't comfortable with that. He wasn't comfortable with knowing that the people he "trusted" had lied to him about certain things when he first joined. It wasn't the nature of the "secrets" or even what they were that bothered him but that they were being used to control him. To unite and divide the group according to their degree.

The problem here is, again, you are conflating private with secret. It is not a secret society. All lodges have their own websites as do the main lodges. Contact information, names, photographs, are all public information. The lodges are listed in the phone book, are open to the public outside of private meetings. Even some private meetings are often open to public as part of the community outreach.

They can hardly control you, you join and leave of your own valition.

I think you're mixing up Masonry with Scientology or maybe Opus Dei or some similar group.

[PetriP-TNT]

I am a semi-liberal Mason in the 5th generation of my family. I am so fucking sick of doing dumb things like keeping the metric system down and making sure that Everybody Loves Raymond reruns stay on the air when we couldn do all kinds of useful things... sigh...

Some perks do make it worth it though, but I can't really talk about them.

[SUPREME1]

My wife's grandfather was a 33rd degree Mason. She still has two of the pocket books that he was given. Both can be read online for free. Shavers Monitor and Manual for ceremonies The Written Work and Lectures of the Three Degrees of Ancient Craft Masonry Her grandfather, on reaching the 33rd degree, was told that god is Satan. I think that pretty much shows that all people should stay away from them. Here are some quotes on exposing the Masonic order.

Creepy.

[J.W.Crazy]

There are tons of Church (and other religious) organizations that are extremely secretive and only divulge information to their own members. Even within the greater church some sects are more reclusive and discerning in their membership. Likewise colleges hold information and resources only accessable by their alumni and most colleges have organizations with strict membership requirements within them. Maybe I'm just biased but when I was in the military we sure has hell kept what we were doing secret from other people in the military let alone civilians. And Navy traditions are strictly for the Navy and not talked about much outside of it and some of them are rather crazy. Hell my specific unit had all sorts of nonsense from blood pinning on up that's usually kept from other people. You should stop using the word "secret" that's a loaded word and conjures up all sorts of illuminati type nonsense. The Free Masons are a private organization and like all private organizations they keep a lot of information private to their members. Even still if you bother to ask through official channels it's not all that private. You can walk straight into a masonic temple and look at all the stuff. You can even go to their public events and talk right to them. You just can't go in on the two days a month there is a private meeting, not because we are "secretly plotting to take over the world" but because private meetings are private yo! Hell, you can walk into my lodge and nobody will stop you. You try to walk into my American Legion post and they'll slide open the view slot on the door ask you what you want and if you aren't a member they'll tell you to piss right the fuck off and leave them the hell alone. Do you think the American Legion is up to no good? Because it's just a bunch of war vets drinking beer, playing cards, and doing charity work! But since it's a private club what we do is private! The problem here is, again, you are conflating private with secret. It is not a secret society. All lodges have their own websites as do the main lodges. Contact information, names, photographs, are all public information. The lodges are listed in the phone book, are open to the public outside of private meetings. Even some private meetings are often open to public as part of the community outreach. They can hardly control you, you join and leave of your own valition. I think you're mixing up Masonry with Scientology or maybe Opus Dei or some similar group.

I've said nothing to the effect of "they're plotting to take over the world". I don't believe they are. You're the one caught up on that. Free Masons are a secret society however. That doesn't denote nefarious actively merely that they maintain "secrets" and don't divulge certain aspects of their nature to the public. That is indeed strange. The have no competitors trying to steal industry trade secrets. The purpose of their secrets is only to be a secret. It isn't meant to be kept from the public, it's meant to be kept within the group. It's used as a means to bond.

I know a man who is a member of the Lion's Club. Nothing that they do is off limits. He can and has told me about anything and everything. He could take me there as his guest at anytime. There is nothing secret. The same doesnot seem to be true for the Masons.

I don't know much about Masons so would you mind saying what degree you are? How long you've been involved? Would you say it's possible that what you know about masonry and what the full truth is are not the same? That perhaps you're experience changes as you progress? That's what I was led to believe by my Grandfather. Again, not that there is anything outwardly bad, just that it's structured in such a way that the truth is slowly revealed.

[viciousDC]

Sigh....

Free Masons are a secret society however.

http://www.dcgrandlodge.org/ this is the main lodge for my area, some secret! The other lodges have websites as well. Please check out some photos of our secret club doing secret shit!

http://www.dcgrandlodge.org/masons-a...community.html

Shhhh... don't tell!

That doesn't denote nefarious actively merely that they maintain "secrets" and don't divulge certain aspects of their nature to the public. That is indeed strange. The have no competitors trying to steal industry trade secrets. The purpose of their secrets is only to be a secret. It isn't meant to be kept from the public, it's meant to be kept within the group. It's used as a means to bond.

By that logic the American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars, DC historic society, all are secret societies... because they have private information as well. Or you know... it could be that private organizations keep private information and private meetings private.

And what "aspect of nature", because google-fuing Masonic secrets leads to all sorts of whack job ideas about goats blood, pentagrams, the illuminati and other such nonsense. And most of that crap was cooked up by the church back in the day... and let's be honest the church doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to stirring up insanity and bullshit.

I know a man who is a member of the Lion's Club. Nothing that they do is off limits. He can and has told me about anything and everything. He could take me there as his guest at anytime. There is nothing secret. The same doesnot seem to be true for the Masons.

I guess in this "look at me, everything must be public" post facebook world people don't value their privacy. I do (I also don't have a facebook), there are plenty of community chances to meet Masons but there is no reason to tell somebody what goes on in private meetings between private individuals. Security clearance issues aside I don't discuss the details of my job because it's nobodies business. I don't discuss conversations I have with my friends to other people because it's none of their business. I don't plaster my family life over the net because it's private... and, oaths aside, I wouldn't tell someone what goes on at a Masonic meeting because it's private and none of your business.

This isn't really all that hard.

[J.W.Crazy]

Sigh.... http://www.dcgrandlodge.org/ this is the main lodge for my area, some secret! The other lodges have websites as well. Please check out some photos of our secret club doing secret shit! http://www.dcgrandlodge.org/masons-a...community.html Shhhh... don't tell!

Hopefully you realize there is literally nothing of substance provided on that webpage. It offers only vague statements and seemingly random imagery.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vZjP...layer_embedded

That is the video posted on the page with information about how to join. It is devoid of any meaningful explanation as to what being a Freemason might entail and seems only to suggest that Freemasonry might somehow afford you the opportunity to be a world leader. If you told me it was a parody I'd believe you.

By that logic the American Legion, Veterans of Foreign Wars, DC historic society, all are secret societies... because they have private information as well. Or you know... it could be that private organizations keep private information and private meetings private. And what "aspect of nature", because google-fuing Masonic secrets leads to all sorts of whack job ideas about goats blood, pentagrams, the illuminati and other such nonsense. And most of that crap was cooked up by the church back in the day... and let's be honest the church doesn't exactly have a good track record when it comes to stirring up insanity and bullshit. I guess in this "look at me, everything must be public" post facebook world people don't value their privacy. I do (I also don't have a facebook), there are plenty of community chances to meet Masons but there is no reason to tell somebody what goes on in private meetings between private individuals. Security clearance issues aside I don't discuss the details of my job because it's nobodies business. I don't discuss conversations I have with my friends to other people because it's none of their business. I don't plaster my family life over the net because it's private... and, oaths aside, I wouldn't tell someone what goes on at a Masonic meeting because it's private and none of your business. This isn't really all that hard.

So no response to this then?

I don't know much about Masons so would you mind saying what degree you are? How long you've been involved? Would you say it's possible that what you know about masonry and what the full truth is are not the same? That perhaps you're experience changes as you progress? That's what I was led to believe by my Grandfather. Again, not that there is anything outwardly bad, just that it's structured in such a way that the truth is slowly revealed.

You come off as highly defensive. If what I'm saying is offensive to you all I can do is apologize. My knowledge of the Masons comes from a former member who left after being dissatisfied with the disconnect between what he was told masonry was and what it became as he progressed and is only very general as he wouldn't delve into specifics.

By the why I'm a fairly private person myself. I don't have a facebook page either. I understand privacy but what you're claiming as privacy goes well beyond that. Privacy doesn't have an oath. If they make you say out loud "I'm not going to tell" that's a secret.

[Ikael]

It sounds like it makes more sense to not get involved with secret societies in the first place.

I find it kinda funny how everyone assumes that all secret societies must be evil and are constantly conspiring against the well being of the human race. Secret societies are like the individuals that composes them. Not every single person is evil, so why are people thinking that every secret society must be evil per se? Yes, some are bad, some are kinda inocuous, but I know for sure that some of them are benefitial too and a few of them do, in fact, "conspire" for the betterment of mankind.