[hey_it's_that_dog]

Mario Kart 64 was 30fps. Get your eyes checked. It did drop lower in split-screen and on some courses, but most of the single player held a steady 30fps.

He said "few games on N64 ran at 30fps." Giving an example of one game that did run at 30fps doesn't refute his statement. It just makes you sound defensive.

[IcyBlueStrawberry]

I'm fine with 30 fps on most console games. As long as the fluidity is maintained and there aren't any big dips, I tend not to pay attention to whether a console game run at 30 or 60 fps. Not to mention the fact that consoles targeting 30 fps leads to better looking games, which I can then buy on PC and play at 60 fps anyway.

[Demigod Mac]

Doesn't matter how powerful the hardware gets.

You can always trade performance for better visual fidelity and vice versa.

That's the choice a developer must make.

[Complistic]

Doesn't bother me. I still can't tell the difference between 30FPS and 60FPS

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html

come on now

[deadlast]

always trust an LSU grad

[SPE]

The virtual console version feels super fucking fast compared to the 64 version. I had actually wondered if it was running in 60FPS. Guess if the original didn't even manage 30, that explains it.

Yeah, the slight bump in frame rate makes an enormous difference.

Just like if you ever see the original OoT and compare it to the recent 3DS version. The increased, stable frame is the biggest difference between the two.

[KillGore]

To be honest, I find it pretty hard to notice the difference between locked 30fps and 60fps. Sometimes it's noticeable but to be honest I barely notice it. You guys must be from the master race, which is used to 60fps all the time.

[Vilam]

No shit. People always think next gen means more 60fps games and they're always wrong... it should be totally obvious why. FPS is a tradeoff for graphical fidelity. If game makers keep making games that look the same as this gen, sure they'll run at 60fps. But absolutely nobody is going to do that because a 60fps bullet point doesn't sell copies of games, good graphics do.

[PopcornMegaphone]

http://boallen.com/fps-compare.html come on now

To be fair, that example is designed to show the most choppiness (ie a single object against a black background).

I think 60 FPS is always better, but it is not necessary for all gaming experiences.

[RedSwirl]

To be honest, I find it pretty hard to notice the difference between locked 30fps and 60fps. Sometimes it's noticeable but to be honest I barely notice it. You guys must be from the master race, which is used to 60fps all the time.

It's mostly noticeable in the controls.

[Fafalada]

Whoa now, PS2 has, perhaps, the highest percentage of 60 fps 3D games of any console ever made. There are LOADS of 60 fps games on PS2. It's seriously impressive and one of the things that really sold me on the system early on.

You really have Sony to thank for that primarily - not the developers. Early on in PS2 life the only documented-way to get 480i was running at 60fps interlaced, and combined with being heavily encouraged to avoid other modes by Sony, well the results show.
Nintendo did something similar with NDS for a while - again a combination of hw-design and "gentle prodding" :P

It only works when you dominate the market of course.

[evangd007]

Of course there will still be 30 fps games. They look better in screenshots!

*cries inside*

[Weenerz]

But the port to PC will run fine, just with muddy textures. Sorry, megatextures.

[lucius]

As long as most games are 1080p and run consistent framerate at 30 the vast majority of console gamers will be happy. Just get rid of some of that tearing which has I increased this gen on consoles.

[Ivan]

It's mostly noticeable in the controls.

I remember Criterion saying something about 30 fps NFS HP, but responsiveness of a 60 fps game. How is that possible?

[Majanew]

30 is fine. Just make sure the framerate is solid and doesn't chug or have an annoying micro stutter like Max Payne 3, Halo Anniversary. And keep the motion blur toned the hell down or off, please. And no fucking screen-tear!

[theBishop]

60 fps will never be standard.

[krameriffic]

60 fps will never be standard.

Never is a mighty long time. Especially since I already consider 120 standard on virtually every PC game I play.

[StevieP]

As long as most games are 1080p and run consistent framerate at 30 the vast majority of console gamers will be happy. Just get rid of some of that tearing which has I increased this gen on consoles.

1080p will not be a set-in-stone standard and I'll dare say less common than *actual* 720p was this gen. HD wasn't even a set standard from this gen's launch games and most of the generation's biggest titles.

60 fps will never be standard.

Exactly. Your post below perfectly describes the line of thinking.

[theBishop]

Never is a mighty long time. Especially since I already consider 120 standard on virtually every PC game I play.

Enjoy your PC. Consoles are fixed hardware. Console developers will always be faced with the choice to do 60, or put more pretty shit on screen. More dynamic lights, more particles, more models, more detail, etc. Some will go with 60, many won't. No matter how powerful the hardware is, it'll always come down to this.

Maybe if film goes to 60, or if 3D becomes ubiquitous, 60 will be more in demand. Until then, most console games will be 30.

[RockmanWhore]

Not surprising, but depressing nontheless. I'll continue to upgrade my PC then.

[AAK]

I expected this... but it still sucks. I wish 60 fps was the standard.

[lucius]

1080p will not be a set-in-stone standard and I'll dare say less common than *actual* 720p was this gen. HD wasn't even a set standard from this gen's launch games and most of the generation's biggest titles.

Oh I don't doubt for a second some developers will go for 720p but I think we will see about an equal number of 1080p games as we did see HD games this gen. Could be less, could be more though.

[StevieP]

I expected this... but it still sucks. I wish 60 fps was the standard.

The second a platform holder imposes a visual requirement will be the same second that many developers will raise a collective finger.

Do you remember how adament that MS was that "HD is a mandate on our consoles that all games must be 720p and use AA"? (it was actually in their Technical Certification Requirement process at launch). Yeah, many of the 360's launch titles - first party included - ran at SubHD.

[DonMigs85]

Doesn't bother me. I still can't tell the difference between 30FPS and 60FPS

Madness.
Compare Super Mario Sunshine to Galaxy, it's pretty obvious.

[Brettison]

The second a platform holder imposes a visual requirement will be the same second that many developers will raise a collective finger. Do you remember how adament that MS was that "HD is a mandate on our consoles that all games must be 720p and use AA"? (it was actually in their Technical Certification Requirement process at launch). Yeah, many of the 360's launch titles - first party included - ran at SubHD.

I never understood how the edram ever got beyond the initial test phase with such dramatic rose colored glasses. MS was basically banking that the edram setup would allow for virtually free AA @720p. To bad all the devs out there that tried were like uhhh there isn't enough edram space to allow for 720p if we want to get the AA.

Hell Bungie specifically stated this, and you'd think Bungie being a closely aligned MS property at the time would have had some input on just what was possible with the box before hand.

[MisterAnderson]

Doesn't bother me. I still can't tell the difference between 30FPS and 60FPS

Most Nintendo games on Wii are 60 fps, which is one of the main reasons why the Wii was the only console worth owning this gen. Hopefully that trend continues with the Wii U.

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Whoa now, PS2 has, perhaps, the highest percentage of 60 fps 3D games of any console ever made. There are LOADS of 60 fps games on PS2. It's seriously impressive and one of the things that really sold me on the system early on. Now it did so at the expense of image quality but I thought it was worth it.

Speaking of which, was Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner supposed to be a 60 fps game? I think I read that somewhere, but I'm playing it at the moment and it's hard to tell since it has slowdowns all over the place. Sometimes it even feels like it's going down to single digits.

[szaromir]

Speaking of which, was Zone of the Enders: The 2nd Runner supposed to be a 60 fps game? I think I read that somewhere, but I'm playing it at the moment and it's hard to tell since it has slowdowns all over the place. Sometimes it even feels like it's going down to single digits.

I don't understand why GAF remembers PS2 so fondly. Surely many games had peak 60 fps framerate, but more often than not it was very variable, didn't have vsync and was interlaced.

[2MF]

Mario Kart Wii is a very good game to demonstrate the difference between 30 fps and 60 fps.

Just try a single-player online game and then a splitscreen online game. The difference is so obvious.

[PnCIa]

I´m curious what you people think a "60 FPS" game is?
Rage actually runs at 60 FPS most of the time. I would call it a true 60 FPS game for what its worth. Unlike the Call of Duty games and GT5 which are both games that can get to 60 FPS but don´t do it quite often.
So, is a 60 FPS target okay? Even though the game runs at something like 45-50 frames most of the time?

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

Decisions, decisions...

I'd go this route, especially since the powerful systems of today don't have to look quite as sparse in the compromise.

[Blue Ninja]

Honestly, if they keep it locked to 30 fps and don't start dipping under it, that's fine by me.

[Eusis]

So, is a 60 FPS target okay? Even though the game runs at something like 45-50 frames most of the time?

To be frank? This is the biggest reason I want 60 FPS to be a target: if they miss it it still means 30-50 FPS, but if they miss 30 FPS it means 20-30, maybe 10-30 when we're unlucky. I don't really mind games being at 30 FPS that much (though it's usually enough to make me jump at the PC version instead), it's when they go below 30 FPS that I get annoyed. I don't recall too many Japanese games last generation going to 60, but I don't recall many going below 30 either.

[GlamFM]

Doesn't bother me. I still can't tell the difference between 30FPS and 60FPS

What´s not to notice? 60fps games run smooth - 30fps game do not.

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

So, is a 60 FPS target okay? Even though the game runs at something like 45-50 frames most of the time?

No, consistent 30 fps is better than fluctuating 60 fps.

[Rhazer Fusion]

Well that sucks, but it isn't surprising, especially since majority of the games will be Western developed who do not particularly care about framerate as much as visuals much unfortunately. 60fps ALWAYS feels and plays better than 30fps. For people who cannot tell the difference........Just play Virtua Fighter 1 and then pop in VF4 to see a difference in the framerate. Or compare COD:MW3 to Halo 3 for another example. 60fps is a must for fighting games also. I assume those will at least stay 60fps. Well, at least I have 120hz on my HDTV which definitely helps.

[NBtoaster]

No, consistent 30 fps is better than fluctuating 60 fps.

If the fluctuations aren't severe it's fine. The extra smoothness and response is apparent at 40-50fps.

But if it's constantly moving up and down with big gaps like God of War 3 it can be unpleasant.

[Rivyn]

A locked 30FPS I can appreciate but not when it starts fluctuating up and down. Give me 30FPS with no blurred draw distance, little to no pop-in and where we can have more then just 8 enemies on a screen and then we are talking business.

[Rhazer Fusion]

No, consistent 30 fps is better than fluctuating 60 fps.

45-50fps is still smoother and better looking than 30fps imo. Going from 60fps to 15-20fps look bad though.

[Raitosaito]

Videogames=/=Films

Low frame rate sucks so much for a lot of genres.

[2+2=5]

Oh please! Is it really possible that no one want to understand that no matter what a console have inside if the console doesn't have a lock that permits only 1080p 60fps nothing will stop developers to use 720p 30 fps to achieve better graphics? It's not a matter of hardware power, it's a matter of developers and resolution lock.
Is it really difficult to understand?

[Rhazer Fusion]

I got a feeling that 1080p will still not be standard since 720p isn't even standard this generation.

[Feep]

Legit question: why does no one target 45 FPS? I have extreme trouble differentiating 45 versus 60, and hey, you've got more power for visuals.

[derFeef]

What´s not to notice? 60fps games run smooth - 30fps game do not.

30fps games run smooth too (just not as smooth :p) if they are locked/good 30fps. 60fps has many other benefits too though.

Legit question: why does no one target 45 FPS? I have extreme trouble differentiating 45 versus 60, and hey, you've got more power for visuals.

Because The Hobbit sucks! :)

[NBtoaster]

Legit question: why does no one target 45 FPS? I have extreme trouble differentiating 45 versus 60, and hey, you've got more power for visuals.

Because 45 doesn't sync with displays (which are 60hz, 120hz etc). Smooth movement needs to be a multiple of 60 or divide into it nicely.

[StuBurns]

People will be able to target 48fps if and when it becomes a display standard.

[LeleSocho]

The only way I can is by switching 3D on and off in DOA.

Yeah there is an incredible gap in that game... never felt drop of frames so much

[mrklaw]

Will 3D help?

If you optimise your game to run in 720p/60/3D, you could probably run the 2D version at a happy 60fps, or a happy 1080p (maybe even both)

[spwolf]

People will be able to target 48fps if and when it becomes a display standard.

unlikely as few billion tv's out there wont support it.


... also 30fps will be forever.