[nVidiot_Whore]

The anti-rape agenda with their war on rape sickens me.

[Centurion]

Im gonna pull a marrec and say the amount of people for rape, is likely lower than the amount of people falsely accused of rape. Why? Because my heart believes it to be so.

[ZAK]

Using phases like, "cry rape".

Is that not an accurate description of what she did? I don't see the problem.

Examples of Rape Culture: Blaming the victim (“She asked for it!”) Trivializing sexual assault (“Boys will be boys!”) Sexually explicit jokes Tolerance of sexual harassment Inflating false rape report statistics Publicly scrutinizing a victim’s dress, mental state, motives, and history Gratuitous gendered violence in movies and television Defining “manhood” as dominant and sexually aggressive Defining “womanhood” as submissive and sexually passive Pressure on men to “score” Pressure on women to not appear “cold” Assuming only promiscuous women get raped Assuming that men don’t get raped or that only “weak” men get raped Refusing to take rape accusations seriously Teaching women to avoid getting raped instead of teaching men not to rape

??

Can we also admit, though, that there are definitely people that take this too far and throw around blanket accusations of the form, "you're supporting the rape culture?" Sexually explicit jokes, WTF. If you're not focusing on where the ACTUAL problem REALLY is, all you're doing is diluting your own message.

[Duki]

why do people post feminist social thought in these threads and just treat it like gospel

like if you think theyre wrong youre automatically crazy because they've posted all these "facts"

when they're not facts at all, but a totally fallible mode of thinking which is not self-evidently true and can easily be disagreed with

its like yall did one social science class and read feminist blogs from time to time, and now youre all fucking experts on every subject now

it shits up threads so bad

[SquiddyCracker]

why do people post feminist social thought in these threads and just treat it like gospel like if you think theyre wrong youre automatically crazy because they've posted all these "facts" when they're not facts at all, but a totally fallible mode of thinking which is not self-evidently true and can easily be disagreed with its like yall did one social science class and read feminist blogs from time to time, and now youre all fucking experts on every subject now it shits up threads so bad

Not taking any sides in this thread but I laughed.

[Trey]

it shits up threads so bad

This thread could have only gone one of two distinct ways: a discussion of rape or the discussion of the penal system, and the ethics and morals surrounding those two topics. You can see what happens when the focus is dilluted as people try to combine the two unsuccessfully.

[Forsaken82]

So if I smashed your head with a pipe and you turned veggie, I shouldn't go to prison because....well, nothing will make it right. You'll never be anything more than a veggie.

I never said anything about NOT punishing her, but rather there is no punishment that can erase his last 6 years. So what? She goes to prison for 6 years? Hes still a registered sex offender. He is no longer a promising college football prospect. He is basically an uneducated (from a college standpoint), unemployed, sex offender that has to now explain to anyone who does a background check on him the entire situation assuming they even let him get that far. So you tell me... what punishment makes his anguish go away? it certainly isn't 6 years in prison.

Using your argument, what punishment do you think my father would want for you seeing as you turned me into a vegetable that would ease his suffering? Life in prison? Death? Perhaps smashing your face in? Maybe taking revenge on your son and turning HIM into a vegetable? Being able to drop a punishment doesn't make any of it better. Should she be punished? Absolutely, but I don't think an eye for an eye is the way to go about it.

[Duki]

ok equating what these guys peddle on a daily basis on gaf to actual, academic feminist social thought is probably degrading

but you know what i mean

[frankie_baby]

I never said anything about NOT punishing her, but rather there is no punishment that can erase his last 6 years. So what? She goes to prison for 6 years? Hes still a registered sex offender. He is no longer a promising college football prospect. He is basically an uneducated (from a college standpoint), unemployed, sex offender that has to now explain to anyone who does a background check on him the entire situation assuming they even let him get that far. So you tell me... what punishment makes his anguish go away? Using your argument, what punishment do you think my father would want for you seeing as you turned me into a vegetable that would ease his suffering? Life in prison? Death? Perhaps smashing your face in? Maybe taking revenge on your son and turning HIM into a vegetable? Being able to drop a punishment doesn't make any of it better. Should she be punished? Absolutely, but I don't think an eye for an eye is the way to go about it.

Surely if his conviction is now overturned his sex offender status would be removed?

[Hydranockz]

Surely if his conviction is now overturned his sex offender status would be removed?

You'd think that but I don't think this is what happens.

[Sanjay]

The worst lawyer ever:-

"Banks was a 17-year-old college football prospect when, in 2002, a classmate accused him of kidnapping and raping her. Banks maintained the sex was consensual, but his lawyer suggested he take a plea deal rather than having the "he said-she said" case go to trial."

I always thought "he said-she said" cases were hard to convict, what the fuck was the lawyer thinking?

[qcf x2]

its like yall did one social science class and read feminist blogs from time to time, and now youre all fucking experts on every subject now it shits up threads so bad

damn, ether

[Reuenthal]

Lying about rape in the way she did should result in a sentence of a decade or two.

[frankie_baby]

You'd think that but I don't think this is what happens.

Really? Surely not

[Duki]

I never said anything about NOT punishing her, but rather there is no punishment that can erase his last 6 years. So what? She goes to prison for 6 years? Hes still a registered sex offender. He is no longer a promising college football prospect. He is basically an uneducated (from a college standpoint), unemployed, sex offender that has to now explain to anyone who does a background check on him the entire situation assuming they even let him get that far. So you tell me... what punishment makes his anguish go away? it certainly isn't 6 years in prison. Using your argument, what punishment do you think my father would want for you seeing as you turned me into a vegetable that would ease his suffering? Life in prison? Death? Perhaps smashing your face in? Maybe taking revenge on your son and turning HIM into a vegetable? Being able to drop a punishment doesn't make any of it better. Should she be punished? Absolutely, but I don't think an eye for an eye is the way to go about it.

imprisonment has a punitive function, it is not just about reparations for the victim

i dont see your problem

depending on what the guy in your shitty analogy was guilty of, there would be federal sentences which said for how long he could be imprisoned

what are you even talking about. you agree she should be punished. if she is guilty of perjury, she should be punished in a way which is in accordance with other cases of perjury.

the state also has a particular interest in crimes like perjury, because they negatively impact on the legal system as a whole, rather than just the victim

[TheSeks]

America please make the legal age 16 like most of the rest of the world.

Er-What good would that do in a rape case? Age of Consent doesn't mean "it's okay to force yourself on the other person because they're totally legal!"

[kame-sennin]

Is that not an accurate description of what she did? I don't see the problem.

She falsely accused someone of rape. The phrase "crying rape" is a loaded term. It can be, and is, used against rape survivors who come forward to silence them or diminish the severity of their accusation.

Can we also admit, though, that there are definitely people that take this too far and throw around blanket accusations of the form, "you're supporting the rape culture?" Sexually explicit jokes, WTF.

Rape culture is about the ways in which all of us contribute to the normalization of sexual violence against women (and men). That does not mean that you or I support rape. What it means is that we were born into a culture where women are undervalued, where their control over their own bodies is limited, and where violence against women is underreported, excused, and often encouraged. The phrase 'rape culture' is used to raise our collective awareness of the fact that we have been born into this culture so that we can actively and collectively challenge it. When we use phrases like "she cried rape", even when we are legitimately angry about false accusations, we perpetuate the usage of language that diminishes all rape accusations.

As for the line about jokes, I have to assume that since it came from a college website, the context has to do with classroom/workplace environments wherein sexually explicit jokes can create an environment conducive to sexual harassment. You can still be a feminist and make sex jokes.

If you're not focusing on where the ACTUAL problem REALLY is, all you're doing is diluting your own message.

In the context of this thread, everyone is pretty focused on the woman's false accusation. If you're speaking more broadly, I don't know what you are referring to.

[Bombadil]

Holy hell yes, lets paint all women as people who can get whatever they want cause that's not bitter as fuck at all.

That's it women, don't come forward with a rape accusation cause if you can't prove it you might ruin the rapists life.

Yes you are. This case is terrible and the woman who accused this man is bottom of the barrel kind of bad, but that doesn't mean we should make sweeping legislation changes that would make raping women even easier, thanks but no thanks.

It's made easy by attitudes like yours which encourage women who've been victimized to stay silent about the crimes done to them.

Yep, lets continue to make sure rapists walk free.

Do you want a specific law targeting people who falsely accuse rape? Also you said this shitty thing: It's so hard on us men huh? Those damn women get EVERYTHING!

...Devo?

[frankie_baby]

She falsely accused someone of rape. The phrase "crying rape" is a loaded term. It can be, and is, used against rape survivors who come forward to silence them or diminish the severity of their accusation.

It is also perfectly correctly used against girls such as the one talked about in this thread

[Reuenthal]

People who lie about other people committing crimes should be punished in accordance to the seriousness of the accusations. So if you accuse someone of murdering someone when he did not and you know this, you are lying, then you should get a more severe sentence than someone who lies in court about a less serious crime. There should be a standard punishment for lying in court but the punishment should be much more severe for more severe crimes.

Punishing people who are responsible for very serious crime does not punish actual rape victims, instead the idea that it does is what perpetrates the problem because it doesn't deal with the issue of liars of rape and so wrong ideas in society are developed, ideas that are against rape victims. Proving that someone lies about a crime is not easy at all and will require very good evidence. Of course it is easier to simply have insufficient evidence for conviction and the difference between the two should be made clear.

And of course not punishing those serious criminals who so greatly harmed other people is very unjust. Justifying such injustice on the premise of empathy for rape victims is rather misguided.

[Trey]

Er-What good would that do in a rape case? Age of Consent doesn't mean "it's okay to force yourself on the other person because they're totally legal!"

I guess he's talking of statutory, which has nothing to do with this particular case.

[ThisWreckage]

If you ruin someone's life I don't feel there is such a thing as "cruel and unusual punishment". She deserves the death penalty. A person that ruined someone's life and then refused to step forward because of money has no value on Earth. A person capable of that will do numerous evil things.

[NullPointer]

It is also perfectly correctly used against girls such as the one talked about in this thread

Absolutely right.

[WrikaWrek]

If you ruin someone's life I don't feel there is such a thing as "cruel and unusual punishment". She deserves the death penalty. A person that ruined someone's life and then refused to step forward because of money has no value on Earth. A person capable of that will do numerous evil things.

[Baconsammy]

How much can you get for false reporting a crime?

In a perfect world, it would be the same sentence the person you lied about ended up getting. Lock this bitch up for 5 years and 2 months.

[frankie_baby]

In a perfect world, it would be the same sentence the person you lied about ended up getting. Lock this bitch up for 5 years and 2 months.

In a perfect world it would be far more

[Nemesis121]

His possible football future robbed and could have been in the NFL, but thanks to her lie only he knows the horror that he had to endure...

[RurouniZel]

False Report of Rape needs to be its own federal crime with fucking steep punishments.

You have my sword.

[Baconsammy]

In a perfect world it would be far more

Yeah, that's probably true. Double it.

[Bombadil]

In a perfect world, it would be the same sentence the person you lied about ended up getting. Lock this bitch up for 5 years and 2 months.

In a perfect world this kind of shit wouldn't happen.

[faceless007]

False Report of Rape needs to be its own federal crime with fucking steep punishments.

Uh, why a federal crime? Why should the federal government have more authority to investigate and prosecute these than the state? I don't think there are many crimes against individuals that are federal.

[akira28]

...Devo?

I think Dev would have better arguments, actually. Not sure she and marrec would be on the same page.

There is definitely a pushback effect of criminalizing specifically the false report of rape beyond perjury or making false police reports. But things can be done to combat that, particularly if they made moves to support rape victims, and not let them feel like they're all alone and helpless with just their stories and the results of a rape kit. In the past, if you weren't a minority or a lower class majority ethnicity, you had a really good chance of getting out of a rape accusation with your freedom intact. Good lawyers would scrutinize the accuser, shame them, call into question their sexual history, etc. You've all seen snippets of these examples in public cases. So just imagine it not being a sports star or a millionaire, just a man in good standing, with ability to afford a good lawyer. That used to be the rule.

[Deified Data]

Surely if his conviction is now overturned his sex offender status would be removed?

This almost never happens.

[Fantasmo]

Guys, think this through. Even if she felt guilty, she probably wouldn't have come forward if there was a penalty coming her way.

Do I want her punished beyond belief? Hell yes. Do I want his years of suffering and loss of future returned graciously and fully? Hell yes.

Do I want it so she never came forward? Hell no. His life was ruined, but he has a chance for a new life now, a path he may not have gotten if he was still a sex offender.

[Ultratech]

If you ruin someone's life I don't feel there is such a thing as "cruel and unusual punishment". She deserves the death penalty. A person that ruined someone's life and then refused to step forward because of money has no value on Earth. A person capable of that will do numerous evil things.

Eh...the death penalty is slightly excessive in this case (this coming from somebody who's pro death penalty).

I do agree that in cases like this, where somebody falsely accuses somebody of a crime (having the accused spend time in jail) and admits that it was wrong later should be punished no less than the amount of time the accused spent in jail. Doubly so if you do it with bad intentions.

It really is bullshit to do that to somebody and rob them of years of their life.

[The Faceless Master]

so... he was what, 17-18 when he went to jail for raping a 15 year old?

how many times do you think the actual real criminals made him hold their kool-aid?

there is nothing that can make up for that.

[Mudkips]

I can't imagine taking a plea deal in a case like this. I guess in rape cases innocent until proven guilty doesn't apply? Why would you not defend yourself?

Men are practically assumed guilty of any allegations of sex-related crime.

[frankie_baby]

This almost never happens.

What the fuck? If someone's conviction is overturned how the hell can they still have part if the punishment, is America really that backward

[Fantasmo]

Eh...the death penalty is slightly excessive in this case (this coming from somebody who's pro death penalty). I do agree that in cases like this, where somebody falsely accuses somebody of a crime (having the accused spend time in jail) and admits that it was wrong later should be punished no less than the amount of time the accused spent in jail. Doubly so if you do it with bad intentions. It really is bullshit to do that to somebody and rob them of years of their life.

She wouldn't have come forward! He'd still be living in shame and anger! He has a chance now. He's not in the shit house anymore.
Come on people!

[NomarTyme]

This is some bullshit.

[timetokill]

Do I want it so she never came forward? Hell no. His life was ruined, but he has a chance for a new life now, a path he may not have gotten if he was still a sex offender.

Was he taken off that list? Chances are he's still a sex offender.
This is going to follow him forever.

[Ninja Scooter]

is he allowed to rape her now and get away with it because of double jeopardy?

[frankie_baby]

Was he taken off that list? Chances are he's still a sex offender. This is going to follow him forever.

Seriously why wouldn't he be taken off automatically, crazy situation

[Mudkips]

She wouldn't have come forward! He'd still be living in shame and anger! He has a chance now. He's not in the shit house anymore. Come on people!

This is the most terrible of logic:

Don't prosecute <crime>. If you prosecute <crime> people who commit <crime> and get away with it will be less likely to confess.

[Trey]

is he allowed to rape her now and get away with it because of double jeopardy?

No.

[Deified Data]

Was he taken off that list? Chances are he's still a sex offender. This is going to follow him forever.

That's what I'm thinking. Courts rarely, rarely admit they're wrong and, in this case, that they could be so easily fooled by a woman's lie. They probably released him because they didn't have enough to hold him, not because they believe he's innocent. I'd like to talk to the prosecutor for this case. I bet he still believes he's guilty.

Seriously why wouldn't he be taken off automatically, crazy situation

Because if a court admits they're wrong about one thing, what else could they be wrong about? They'll let him off his sentence "early", given the circumstances, but they'll likely never admit that he's innocent. They'd look bad.

[Mattlikewhoa]

I made my way through all these pages to see if she was thrown in jail, and made to pay back the money (and to him restitution).

I'm leaving disappointed...

[WrikaWrek]

is he allowed to rape her now and get away with it because of double jeopardy?

I think you can rape someone twice, and so on. You can't kill her twice though.

[frankie_baby]

is he allowed to rape her now and get away with it because of double jeopardy?

No he's had his conviction overturned so he can't, if however he hadn't bothered to do that and then raped her whatever evidence he used to overturn the conviction would give him a bloody good shot at the double jeopardy

[The Frankman]

The worst lawyer ever:- "Banks was a 17-year-old college football prospect when, in 2002, a classmate accused him of kidnapping and raping her. Banks maintained the sex was consensual, but his lawyer suggested he take a plea deal rather than having the "he said-she said" case go to trial." I always thought "he said-she said" cases were hard to convict, what the fuck was the lawyer thinking?

He's black.

Seriously why wouldn't he be taken off automatically, crazy situation

Read "Catch-22", lovely book explaining why.