[Mama Robotnik]

As long as I've been a gamer and paying some attention to the industry, the assertion that Nintendo is near breaking point, or needs to go third party, has been persistent and eternal.

Through the days of the Nintendo 64, the subdued success of the Gamecube, the blockbuster success of the Gameboy/Advance, and the gargantuan success of the Wii and DS, analysts, supposed experts and self-declared informed forum posters have never failed to assert in maddening illogical ways, how the company will soon come to its knees. If you filter out the ironic and comedic posts, there is still a constant and not insignificant portion of people that feel through rain or shine, Nintendo's days are numbered.

Equally, the opinion that the company must transition to a third-party model has never faded. Such opinion is often spouted with the most random, tenuous justification and flawed logic.

We rarely see such an assertion regarding Sony or Microsoft's first-party lineup, so why through Nintendo's successes or failures, do such discussions continue to persist?

(I know that part of the answer is that people may be misinformed, but unlike many other flawed opinions regarding the industry, this one continues to endure.)

Secondary question: Are there some common misconception(s) that lead to these doomed/third party ideas, that if nipped in the bud, would reduce the persistence of the assertions?

[Deadbeat]

Secondary question: Is there some common misconception(s) that lead to these doomed/third party ideas, that if nipped in the bud, would stop the persistence of the assertions?

The success of the Wii and the DS didnt stop the 3rd party assertion. There is nothing that will stop it.

[weird]

They are good at what they do. People hate them.


(no use to post here, most of nintendogaf has moved to irc)

[remnant]

They don't like Nintendo.

There. /this thread and the next ten threads with this same exact premise

[Count Dookkake]

It's all they have. Don't take it from them.

[John Harker]

Because some people want to play their games, but don't want to be seen in public with their hardware.

[Resilient]

90% of people say this as a joke. It's just meta now.

[Forkball]

They are an anomaly that doesn't play by the predefined rules of how to be successful, and thus people constantly think they are due for failure despite their numerous wild successes.

[civilstrife]

Because some people want to play their games, but don't want to be seen in public with their hardware.

Yup.

Most gamers love Nintendo software but hate their hardware, so it's really just wishful thinking.

[Derrick01]

They don't like Nintendo and want to see them shamed and reduced to making phone games.

[ksamedi]

Nintendo is a gaming only company. That leads people to believe that if things go wrong, they will go third party. I think their biggest strength lies in that they are a gaming only company. They understand the consumer, and give them what they need most of the time because their existence depends on it. Furthermore, Nintendo would fail as a software only company, just like Apple would fail if they were software only. Both companies combine hardware with their software to make appealing products.

[Electivirus]

They are an anomaly that doesn't play by the predefined rules of how to be successful, and thus people constantly think they are due for failure despite their numerous wild successes.

Pretty much this.

[KenOD]

Sony and Microsoft aren't video game majority companies. Their "doom" in this industry means they leave it and sell off their first and second parties elsewhere, but they themselves will be gone. Not as interesting to talk about.

SEGA, Hudson, Atari (even if it's just the name Atari and not the original), and other video game focused companies have left the hardware business and gone third party in order to stay afloat. There is history there, it's in the mindset even if it doesn't fully apply to Nintendo's situation.

Nintendo is the most recognisable, people still want to play their games and so they can easily imagine wanting to play them elsewhere. People didn't care that Hudson/NEC or SNK were leaving the hardware business because they already could play their games on other hardware and so it barely changed anything.

There are those that don't want to play or like Nintendo games at all, then they want them "doomed" because they are tired of hearing or talking about them and haven't learned how to just ignore their products and threads about them.
Tangent to them are those who just keep repeating the same gag of "DOOOMED!" into the ground. Just be thankful the awful "for kiddies" gag has all but died down except in the most obtuse of people or the most joking of replies.

[The Abominable Snowman]

Because Sega did.

[Salih]

http://www.isnintendodoomed.com/

[nullset2]

becuz nintendo is 4 teh kiddiez and they gamz dont have blood and sex and the other consoles are really hardcore n nintendo suk dik xD

[RoboPlato]

A lot of people just want to play a few of their titles without having to invest in their hardware. The whole doomed/going third party thing started when they weren't doing so well but people keep it up now because they don't want to buy a console with a poor online infrastructure or dated tech. Basically it's just wishful thinking from people that don't like the direction the company has moved in. Personally I always try to get their home consoles since there usually enough games for me to feel satisfied with it.

[Fantasy Final]

[EatinOlives]

There are frankly just as many Sony is doomed/Microsoft is doomed assertions as well. It's a natural product of random gamers being armchair analysts in a gaming forum. I guess one reason you might think it's more prevalent with Nintendo might be because 1) you're personally more sensitive to when it's said about Nintendo and/or 2) a lot of times it's being said as a joke.

There's also the factor of people just wanting to play games on other hardware for one reason or another. I randomly fantasize about inFamous 2 being on the PC, which I think would be the cat's pajamas, so yes in that case Sony SHOULD go third party. Doesn't mean there's some sort of deeply rooted ill-will expressed toward Sony, just that you just want to play a game on some other hardware because you think you'll enjoy it more there.

[Eusis]

Was it there for the N64? Because I think a lot of this stems directly from Sega's own self destruction and movement to 3rd party, though I guess Atari ultimately doing similar in the late 90s could've explained any of it seen during the N64 days. I guess some people feel dedicated video game companies aren't necessarily long for the world, and when Nintendo's in their weaker moments it seems even more plausible.

[UncleSporky]

Because the most vocal groups that we read, the people who are heavy internet users who consider themselves gaming connoisseurs, feel that the company does not provide hardware or games that cater to their tastes anymore.

People who grew up loving one particular thing and discover that it doesn't entertain them as much anymore...isn't it natural to say that this thing is experiencing a decrease in quality, rather than admitting that you have changed?

As an example, you could look at other brands. I loved Sesame Street when I was a kid. As I grew up, I saw less and less of it, instead seeing only the bits that spilled out into the world at large - characters like Elmo and Zoey in toy aisles and on t-shirts. If you don't think too hard about it, it's easy to say that it sucks now and nobody cares. I have no idea how Sesame Street is actually doing, but it's probably as successful as ever.

[SolarPowered]

-Nintendo makes gaming on their consoles a frustrating experience if you like anything besides gaming at all. Very annoying stuff here.
-Manbabies secretly want to play Nintendo games. This is especially true if they can even take the disc out of the equation with iOS/PC/XBL/PSN.
-It's human nature to fear something different.

[jooey]

People who *don't* say the third-party thing as a joke do so because Sega did it so they think there's precedent, when the situation was completely different. Should seem obvious to a crazy Sega person like you, Mama!

[ScreenSplitter]

Because there are this weird middle ground of people who want to play Nintendo games, but don't want to shell out money for the 3DS, which is doing perfectly fine by the way. So they want to play the games on their phone instead, for some reason.

Without realising that with the eccentricities of the App Store would undoubtedly alter the quality of Nintendo games themselves, making the whole venture pointless.

In other words, idiots are idiots.

[Speevy]

1) Nintendo has been around for a while. Eventually all our childhood things get old and die, or so we're told.

2) Nintendo designs games how they want, and refuses to abide by industry trends. Companies adapt or die, or so we're told.

3) Everyone's closing or folding into something. Nintendo is independent and not part of some other huge company, so it follows Nintendo must need help.


I think those are the main ones. Also the N64 and Gamecube, which made the company look very weak to the general public.

I have no idea how the Wii U will perform, and after this generation, I won't even venture a guess.

[Deadbeat]

There are frankly just as many Sony is doomed/Microsoft is doomed assertions as well. It's a natural product of random gamers being armchair analysts in a gaming forum. I guess one reason you might think it's more prevalent with Nintendo might be because 1) you're personally more sensitive to when it's said about Nintendo and/or 2) a lot of times it's being said as a joke.

Could you please point me to the list of Sony and Microsoft titles that should be put onto the iPhone? Because maybe you could post some evidence of the similarity in criticism of the companies to somehow justify your first sentence.

[Jake Tower]

Gamers want to play Nintendo games, but don't want to buy a console that ends up being a 'Nintendo-playing-machine,' so they'd rather have Nintendo be third party and get their games on their console of choice, along with all the other great third party games.

It's hard not to sympathize with this view.

[Scum]

They are an anomaly that doesn't play by the predefined rules of how to be successful, and thus people constantly think they are due for failure despite their numerous wild successes.

Because some people want to play their games, but don't want to be seen in public with their hardware.

Pretty much these two things.

[MrNyarlathotep]

There are frankly just as many Sony is doomed/Microsoft is doomed assertions as well.

There really, really, really aren't.

[outunderthestars]

Yup. Most gamers love Nintendo software but hate their hardware, so it's really just wishful thinking.

I fall into this camp. I would love to see their games not constrained by gimmicks or woefully under-powered hardware.

Also, I am tired of buying Nintendo consoles for the handful of 1st party games that I want to play.

[PetrCobra]

I think maybe analysts are not saying it like that, and it's just gamers and generally people who cite their speeches who stretch the opinions to unimaginable lengths.

I've read crazy stuff about Pachter and whatever he has to say everytime someone asks him about Nintendo, and then recently saw a short video about Wii U where there was him and some other guys chatting and frankly, Pachter seemed very modest and had some rather intelligent things to say. Unlike some of the other guys.

EDIT:

I fall into this camp. I would love to see their games not constrained by gimmicks or woefully under-powered hardware.

So, when did you start with gaming?

Because you can use this for Wii, maybe, every Nintendo console before that was pretty over-powered compared to most of the other consoles in the generation.

Or maybe you are referring to the handhelds, which were always underpowered and always will be, and for a good reason.

[RELAYER]

Wishful thinking.

[Smiles and Cries]

its seems all gamers want Nintendo Software but many do not wish to purchase Nintendo hardware for them, this be my guess for the call

[ScreenSplitter]

It's hard not to sympathize with this view.

I find it very easy not to sympathize.

If you have money for an iPhone, you either have money for a 3DS or are really stupid in how you spend your money.

[-Pyromaniac-]

People love Nintendo games but not their hardware. They lash out with these 3rd party comments because they want their cake and eat it too.

its seems all gamers want Nintendo Software but many do not wish to purchase Nintendo hardware for them for be my guess for the call

beaten

[apana]

Gamers want to play Nintendo games, but don't want to buy a console that ends up being a 'Nintendo-playing-machine,' so they'd rather have Nintendo be third party and get their games on their console of choice, along with all the other great third party games. It's hard not to sympathize with this view.

No it's actually very easy. There are a million and one reasons why Nintendo folding up shop and going third party would be a lot worse for gamers in the long run. Not to mention horrible for Nintendo and the quality of their games.

[butter_stick]

Personally I just want a single console. I don't care who makes it. But it's probably not gonna be Nintendo, so third party they should go.

[ScreenSplitter]

Personally I just want a single console. I don't care who makes it. But it's probably not gonna be Nintendo, so third party they should go.

Not you again.

Attention; please ignore this man. He has a ridiculous set of opinions and a Orwellian view of the future of gaming.

[ShineALight]

On some level a lot of "gamers" have conflicted feelings towards the company. They don't agree with Nintendo's hardware or business decisions but would love to be able to play Mario/Zelda/etc. without having to buy a platform just for that purpose, so they advocate the course of action that would see their wishes fulfilled in a manner that would be cheapest and easist for them: Nintendo going third-party and publishing games on Sony or Microsoft's platforms. Especially since this would mean that those games would be designed around the kind of hardware decisions made by Sony/Microsoft, which are generally more in line with what that kind of gamer wants out of hardware.

Those same hardware/business decisions that Nintendo makes also makes them an outlier in the industry, and many risk-adverse developers/analysts expect Nintendo to fail, especially coming off of two lukewarm generations. It remains to be seen if one enormously successful one following that will be enough to improve relationships with third-parties (so far it seems hopeful) but analysts and "hardcore gamers" seem to be carrying the same tune they always have.

Part of it may also be because Nintendo, being only involved in the business of gaming, does not have the deep pockets of Sony or especially Microsoft, and therefore would be the easiest to force out of the hardware market, a la Sega. This line of thought overlooks Nintendo's profitability, general financial conservatism and the massive appeal of its marquee franchises, but their smaller stature does seem to color them to some as a "niche" operation that only sells to Nintendo fans (especially pre-Wii/DS).

[Mileena]

They want to play good games on good hardware


Pretty sure it's a joke/meme at this point though

[Speevy]

Of all the doomed predictions, the Sony one is based on actual fact.

Nintendo going third party has always been a matter of strategic priority. Sony may actually close its doors within the next 10 years if it doesn't stabilize financially.

[Htown]

Because some people want to play their games, but don't want to be seen in public with their hardware.

This I don't get.

Do they think people actually care what kind of box they have under their TV? Or do they think playing agame in public on a DS is more embarassing than playing on a PSP?

[Kokonoe]

Because some people want to play their games, but don't want to be seen in public with their hardware.

I don't understand this.

[Kai Dracon]

For people who really mean it when they say it, I figure most have one of two reasons:

1. They're dismissive of Nintendo and think they're lame and outdated - because you know, I'm an 20-something male and I don't care about a company that makes games for all audiences. All games should be made for me. So their default opinion is that it's pointless for Nintendo to be important enough to warrant their own platform. They should just go 3rd party where they belong.

2. They want to play Nintendo games because they remember them from their childhood and/or they see a lot of people say they're really good today, but don't want to buy a separate platform just for one company's games.

Number 2 can have a legitimate point in that it may not be worth a person investing in a single game system for a couple of games. That is fair enough. However, a lot of folks in category 2 don't seem to quite recognize that one reason Nintendo sticks to their own hardware is in order to tailor their hardware to the games and vis versa. Wanting Nintendo to abandon hardware is, to a degree, asking Nintendo to abandon what makes them unique.

People may hate the Wii for instance, and hate holding a Wiimote. But a game like Mario Galaxy, say, is designed explicitly around the interface (and is one of the games that uses it almost perfectly). That is the Nintendo way. Most really important Nintendo games strive to use their platform in a way that gives them something no similar game could have.

So in the end there is a kind of paradox. One wants Nintendo quality, but may not want to buy into the platform that, in part, grants that quality. It was easier this generation to build a narrative about Nintendo's failure due to the divisive nature of the Wii interface itself.

Going into Wii U, we see the same thing. Nintendo is trying to make games that won't be like anything else, and that requires control of the platform. The trick there is you see more excitement from people who didn't like the Wii. People can see uses in the control tablet, with dual screen shenanigans combined with gyrometer and traditional dual analog stick controls all in one.

[Speevy]

This I don't get. Do they think people actually care what kind of box they have under their TV? Or do they think playing agame in public on a DS is more embarassing than playing on a PSP?

I think both make you look pretty odd tbh, which is why a phone is a safer bet.

Then I'm weird too, because I play handhelds at home.

[Chunky]

I fall into this camp. I would love to see their games not constrained by gimmicks or woefully under-powered hardware.

But this line of thinking's pointless to go down, since Nintendo make games for their hardware and their hardware has to be accessible to the mass market. No use wanting their games on 3rd party hardware as it will never happen.

[PetrCobra]

Not you again. Attention; please ignore this man. He has a ridiculous set of opinions and a Orwellian view of the future of gaming.

No way I'm not going to ignore him, I'm already slightly amused by the statement you quoted.

[UncleSporky]

I fall into this camp. I would love to see their games not constrained by gimmicks or woefully under-powered hardware.

Only Wii has been justifiably considered under-powered thus far, and the only one that could be considered "constrained by gimmicks."

DS was under-powered by comparison to PSP, but Nintendo took the next logical step up from GBA...PSP proved that the world wasn't ready for that sort of technological skip.

[EmCeeGramr]

Nintendo going third party (or being in such a position that the decision was forced) would almost certainly be catastrophic for their software output, something that not a lot of hopeful dreamers stop to realize.

[Kirbyguy]

It is probably a way of saying Nintendo makes the best damn games that we want it on our hardwares, because you damn sure don't see people lining up for other first parties titles on other hardware.