[Man God]

There's a lot that Strange Journey does well, but one thing in particular that stood out for me as contrasted with Persona 1 (since I worked on/played both of them back to back) is the dungeon design, in particular the way it meshes with the "app" system, the EX Missions, and the Forma Search in what is (IMO) an underappreciated bit of design. Persona 1's dungeons aren't its strong suit. They're basically just spaces to fight monsters. In the whole game there's very, very little that requires you or even makes you want to look at the dungeon itself as opposed to the minimap view--a couple of wall switches you need to find in the Factory, some softball "puzzles" with floor lights in Deva Yuga, that's about it. I've played the game at least three times, across both the PSX release in '96 and the PSP game, and throughout all of those playthroughs I was focused on the small corner of the screen where the real information is. Not only that, but the rewarding bits of Persona 1's dungeons are entirely segregated from the exploration part. All the NPCs and all the treasures in the game are found in the larger "rooms" where you switch to the isometric view with the whole party hanging out. This has the side effect of teaching you that when you see a dead end on the minimap, you already know that you don't need to go that way--there won't be anything there. This is never ever ever a problem in Strange Journey. The dungeons are liberally sprinkled with enough NPC encounters, treasure chests, hidden doors, and Forma Search pings off the beaten path to make it worth exploring every nook and cranny of every Sector. Playing the game, I was surprised at how much obvious care went into making these dungeons spaces you would want to spend time in, rather than serve as obstacle courses between story point A and story point B. Basically, while you can't beat Nocturne for atmosphere, especially not on the DS, I think Strange Journey might have mechanically the best dungeons in the series.

This is so very true.

P1 felt primitive even back when it was released. SJ however takes most of what works from the other great Atlus 3D dungeon crawler of the gen and adds to it that Megaten flair. I don't think it quite reaches the greatness of those games when it comes to dungeon design but makes up for it with a more interesting combat system and in my opinion the best demon summoning the series has ever had for a very nice complete package.

The only things holding SJ back are the disappointing soundtrack and that some part of the story just doesn't fit right. It feels like a good half of a much larger tale. Hard to explain really.

[Aeana]

Finished episode 3 of Raidou 1. Now is when the game starts to get interesting.
I'm finding the combat even more irritating than last time I played the game, but I'm willing to put up with it because of how much I like the other aspects. I will say that going back to one demon party member and the stupid stupid HAY MASH O 2 GET DEMAN mechanic are what are grating me the most. Raidou 2 really is a dramatic improvement in these areas.

This is so very true. P1 felt primitive even back when it was released. SJ however takes most of what works from the other great Atlus 3D dungeon crawler of the gen and adds to it that Megaten flair. I don't think it quite reaches the greatness of those games when it comes to dungeon design but makes up for it with a more interesting combat system and in my opinion the best demon summoning the series has ever had for a very nice complete package. The only things holding SJ back are the disappointing soundtrack and that some part of the story just doesn't fit right. It feels like a good half of a much larger tale. Hard to explain really.

I think SJ's dungeons are far more interesting than EO's. But that's because the focus in SJ (and the Megaten franchise at large)'s dungeon design is very, very, very (cannot emphasize enough), very different in a way that appeals to me, and has throughout the series. Persona 1 has weak dungeon design and it stands out in the series because of that.

[Absoludacrous]

The Raidou games are the only thing in this franchise I haven't played that's been released in the US (Except for Jack Bros, I guess). I have them both, I should really get to them sometime.

Also, is Maken X considered a SMT spinoff, or is the only connection the Kaneko art?

[archnemesis]

The general theme in Maken X is also similar to the Megami Tensei games, but it's not considered to be part of the series. Jack Bros is actually quite fun.

[StuBurns]

I'm going to be playing Catherine this week, it's not exactly SMT, but I shall report my findings.

[Jucksalbe]

The Kyuuyaku screenshots are swapped. The outdoors map is from MT2 and the battle is from MT1.

Thanks! Corrected.

[FataIChoice]

Megami Tensei was also released on the MSX, it was a top-down RPG similar to Gauntlet.

I have really come to love this series, I only wish I knew about them earlier so I could have started playing them when I had more available time to spend into them. Not owning a PS2 when a lot of the more recent games were released also made me miss out on the games.

I am currently inching my way through Nocturne and Strange Journey (I was further in SJ but my save file corrupted when I tempted fate with a low battery).

I may return to Demi-Kids one day too, but not any time soon.

Also, here is my Raiho riding Alduin.

[Jucksalbe]

Megami Tensei was also released on the MSX, it was a top-down RPG similar to Gauntlet.

That's what you get, if you look at Wikipedia instead of HG101 at first. Thanks, added.

[C-Jo]

I wish I had more time to participate in the festivities, but I'll probably be limited to P4A and P4G this year.

I own every game listed in the OP, but I've only completed a fraction of them. Hopefully I'll get to live vicariously though you guys and girls.

[cj_iwakura]

This is a great watch for SMT history:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8HDjf1qL54

Cozy Okada and Kazuma Kaneko discuss SMT history, and the early ideas for Raidou.

[Jucksalbe]

This Making of... Feature is worth a look. It features a number of interviews about the series, including one with Yuji Horii who I think is talking about how cool the mazes are in SMT games. Check it!

Is there a subtitled version of this somewhere?

This is a great watch for SMT history: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8HDjf1qL54 Cozy Okada and Kazuma Kaneko discuss SMT history, and the early ideas for Raidou.

Great, added that to the OP.

[Aeana]

I find that video so difficult to watch. The camera shaking all over the place just drives me nuts.

Anyway, episode 5 of Raidou done. The boss at the end of that one is pretty tough. I almost forgot about being able to press L1 to bring the demon near you.

[Finalow]

I bought DDS 1 - 2 and Lucifer's call, finished DDS 1 and playing DDS 2. after that I'm going to play Lucifer's call.
who's with me, gaf? =D

[Jucksalbe]

I still don't know if I should start with Persona (PSP) or Digital Devil Saga 1. Haven't finished both games and I still have saves somewhere in the middle for both. Looking at all these games, it's pretty embarassing to admit how many of them I never finished.

[Aeana]

I still don't know if I should start with Persona (PSP) or Digital Devil Saga 1. Haven't finished both games and I still have saves somewhere in the middle for both. Looking at all these games, it's pretty embarassing to admit how many of them I never finished.

Well, consider that you'll want to play DDS2 afterward, because DDS1 and DDS2 make up one complete game.

[Finalow]

I still don't know if I should start with Persona (PSP) or Digital Devil Saga 1. Haven't finished both games and I still have saves somewhere in the middle for both. Looking at all these games, it's pretty embarassing to admit how many of them I never finished.

Persona 1 isn't that good, actually it's pretty bad. you should play Persona 2, best persona game and awesome jrpg.
or just finish DDS 1 and let's play DDS 2.

[Jucksalbe]

Well, consider that you'll want to play DDS2 afterward, because DDS1 and DDS2 make up one complete game.

Well, and I want to play Innocent Sin after finishing Persona 1. But I guess I will settle for playing Digital Devil Saga when I can and Persona when the TV is occupied. ;)

Persona 1 isn't that good, actually it's pretty bad.

Yeah, I know. I really don't like the battles in Persona 1, with that high encounter rate, it can get pretty tedious. But at least the battle theme is great.

[Aeana]

DDS1 is a fairly short game.
I'd personally love to do DDS1+2, but I need to finish Raidou 1 first. I'll probably do it a little later, because my strongest hankering at the moment is to play SMT2. And of course I'm gonna get interrupted this week when Ys Origin is out on Steam, but we'll see.

[someguyinahat]

Played Devil Survivor 1 and 2, and Strange Journey. Enjoyed them all. Currently on my fourth run of DS2.

I see lots of complaints about the maps in Strange Journey. I liked the map puzzles, but the one thing that really cheesed me off happened in the NG+. In the first run, you got an achievement once you completed a map, so you could see when you were done. In the second run, you have to complete the map all over again but since the achievment is already flagged, the only way you can tell is talking to the quest-giver who asks you about map completion.

And don't get me started on those later maps that require you to actually change your alignment within a small window to complete them. Wouldn't it have been so much nicer if they let you keep your map, so you can do NG+ runs of different alignments and open up the map that way?

[Urban Scholar]

I much rather do DDS1 solo.

[Heropon]

For some reason I wasn't interested in this series until now. I can buy easily Persona 1, 2:IS and 3. What can be a good starting point?

I was going to start with Persona 1, but it seems it isn't so good...

[Javier]

Did three runs of DS Overclocked, need two more for 100%. Currently on my first run of DS2.

Great thread.

[Jucksalbe]

For some reason I wasn't interested in this series until now. I can buy easily Persona 1, 2:IS and 3. What can be a good starting point?

Persona 3 is probably the best way to start with the series. It's the easiest to get into and it's a wonderful game.

[Finalow]

well I'm kinda stuck against this guy (DDS 2). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdXM4W1gN2A
I need to grind for like 15 levels. =| in 4 days didn't touch the game yet ('cause of Diablo 3) but think I'm gonna play it soon.

[Finalow]

For some reason I wasn't interested in this series until now. I can buy easily Persona 1, 2:IS and 3. What can be a good starting point? I was going to start with Persona 1, but it seems it isn't so good...

well Persona 2 is great, you have some cameo from Persona 1 but not a big deal so you can skip the first one.
after P2 you can play P3 and P4, but they aren't great as P2. (especially P4, it's so overrated but sssh, GAF must not read this :s)

[Javier]

Persona 3 is probably the best way to start with the series. It's the easiest to get into and it's a wonderful game.

Also, is it better to start with the original version or the FES version? (And what are the differences, anyway?)

[Jucksalbe]

Also, is it better to start with the original version or the FES version? (And what are the differences, anyway?)

There's nothing in the original, that's not in Fes. From the top of my head: Fes has more personas, character costumes, I think additional Skill Links (not sure), and an exclusive additional mode ("The Answer"), that's practically a dungeon crawler that takes place after the game (this one is also NOT in the PSP version).

[JKTrix]

This thread made me pop in my abandoned Digital Devil Saga game. I was like 47 hours in and in the 'Karma Temple'. Time to relearn how to play this game.

[DimmuBurgerKing]

There's nothing in the original, that's not in Fes. From the top of my head: Fes has more personas, character costumes, I think additional Skill Links (not sure), and an exclusive additional mode ("The Answer"), that's practically a dungeon crawler that takes place after the game (this one is also NOT in the PSP version).

Except the original opening/"Burn My Dread" as I discovered after downloading P3F from PSN the other day. lol. I can't believe I never played FES until now. :S

[Gloam]

Is there a subtitled version of this somewhere?

I wasn't able to find one, you can try the YouTube auto translate stuff, but it leads to some peculiar moments and much nonsense.

[drtomoe123]

I've finished practically all of the US-released SMTs (sans Strange Journey--I really need to get on that), but I never finished my recent playthrough of P3P. I might try to plow through that in preparation for P4G.

Seriously great series. I really believe that this series is what resparked my interest in video gaming. I had been into the typical JRPG stuff when I was younger and I stopped playing games (aside from Pokemon) when I hit college, but when I played Devil Summoner followed by FES at the end of my freshman year of college, it literally blew me away. I feel like each of the games (spin-offs included) have such a sense of style and flair that totally outclass the majority of their JRPG counterparts; they all have such a profound command of the aesthetic that they're trying to communicate. ...and goddamn, Meguro is such a fucking ace composer.

[Jucksalbe]

The button configuration in DDS is killing me. Square for menu, triangle for back and especially circle for auto-battle. I'm really having a hard time to get used to this again.

[MechaX]

SMT is still my favorite gaming series next to Metroid (and... maybe MGS). Gotta thank myself for picking up Persona 2: Eternal Punishment on an absolute whim during a random Toys R Us visit years ago. I liked the box art, and though "Oh what the hell."

Man, people going through Raidou 1 again... That's tough, especially after playing Raidou 2.

But I think I may try to actually start playing Persona 2 Innocent Sin. I got half-way through the fan translation, but I kinda got burned out. Doesn't help that a lot of the FAQs for IS and EP are absolutely insane sometimes; one EP FAQ in particular was very well detailed, but had some pretty... insane persona and leveling recommendations. I'm talking "Okay, you beat this dungeon, ALL YOUR PERSONAE ARE OBSOLETE. Here, grind for cards to get new ones and then grind those up to Rank 8. Oh, you finished another dungeon? Well level up 5 more levels and get entirely new personae for all five of your party members."

I don't know where I got the time to finish EP in that manner when I was younger.

[Bucca]

Will definitely participate in this thread. I have a ton of SMT games that I need to get started on or finish. Can't wait.

[semiconscious]

Man, people going through Raidou 1 again... That's tough, especially after playing Raidou 2...

nah :) . replayed r1 a few months ago, & really enjoyed it. not up to r2 standards in many ways, but a great story, & still a lot of fun...

[randomkid]

I'm going to be playing Catherine this week, it's not exactly SMT, but I shall report my findings.

Heh, everyone's always trying to bring Catherine into the SMT fold for some reason. No one ever tries the same thing for Trauma games though. I'm finally playing Trauma Team and it's so good, during cutscenes, the characters have this awesome blurred out look when they're in the distance that reminds me of the field sprite art in Strange Journey and old SMT games.

[Nils]

Just started playing through DDS1 a few days ago. I started a playthrough a few years ago, but only played an hour or six. Kinda feel dirty using a guide at regular intervals but if I wouldn't have I had missed a lot of stuff. In particular the stuff behind those colored walls.

[Jucksalbe]

Finally, time for Digital Devil Saga!



I had an old save (played a bit about half a year ago), right after the Citadel, starting at the Embryon Base. Of course, I had no idea where to go next anymore. So, I ran around like an idiot.



And then I finally found the right way. Back to Manipura! And there I got a new party member, but I forgot about that again right away. A big mistake as I had to learn soon thereafter.



But first I had to go through the dungeon again and follow a bunch of people you can see on pictures as a blurry mess (really, you have to look closely). At least all enemies you encounter run away as soon as they can. Makes me wonder why they didn't simply turn off random encounters.



And of course I ran right into their trap. A boss fight is coming up and then I remembered "Wasn't there this NPC right at the beginning of the area, telling me about one-hit death spells", it might have been important. Nah".



Crap, Mudo! Of course, after the fight I knew that my new partner member could cast "Void Death" (but I didn't switch him in) and that my main character also knows "Void Death" (which I didn't set). I lost a lot of revival items during that fight.



But bit by bit they went down as my party went up again. I really had that "Rage" magic the bat can cast, which gives him two additional turns. I thought about redoing the fight to save my revival gems and beads, but in the end I didn't bother.



Characters not currently in the party also don't seem to level up with the others. There's a big potential for future screwups.



Well, basically what this means is: I have to go back again.



But this time it won't be that easy. Especially these annoying "mini-boss" fights where you have to fight hordes (about 10 of them) of normal enemies. At least by the time you have to fight most of them, you already know their weaknesses, so they won't be very hard. It's just long.



Much more dangerous are the random encounters. Like this one. The first attack was Marin Marin on my party and it hit everybody. I was very close to a game over here.



More fights. But this time I learned from my mistake before. Void Death!



And the last of the mini-bosses. These apes are more annoying than strong. Especially if it's just them.



This is something I was wondering about in the end. After the boss fight, I started in the room left from where I am now. I then went counterclockwise around the whole map to get where I am now. Couldn't I just have just the door I'm standing in front of now? I at least now I used that save point right after the fight.



Time for the real boss fight!...and my first Game Over today. Basically what killed me was a powered up Maragi (or something similar) attack. The one character left standing couldn't survive very long after that. But the most important thing is, I know about that attack now, so attempt #2:



I'm prepared!



Well, right away, I'm off to a good start. Everybody's stunned, what more can you wish for? I didn't remember him using this attack very often on my first try. This time he used it five rounds in a row.



But the important thing is: I have Void Fire now, so his magic won't hurt me. So aside from being stunned in the beginning the fight went very well. Luckily his Executioner move never completely killed me (but often enough I had only single digit HP left).



So now that I'm outside again, it's time to head back to the base....



...and save!

[mjc]

Think I'm gonna pick up where I left off on DS: Overclocked. Fusing demons is way too addicting.

[TimeKillr]

I'll probably join you guys for DDS2. I have a "perfect" DDS1 save with Hitoshura beaten, every character level 99, max cash and every single skill unlocked for everyone.

Every. Single. Skill. I farmed that damn Titania corridor so much...

DDS1 is actually stupid easy, except for what I spoilered. DDS2 is a bit harder because of how you learn skills and because afaik the devour "glitch" isn't present.

It's pretty simple - whenever enemies are in the "Scared" state in DDS1, all the instant-kill devour skills get a 99% hit rate and success rate. This makes some instant-kill devour skills useless as the lowest tier one works all the freaking time. This speeds up skill acquisition like crazy - just equip Iron Stomach + the skill that gives skill points to the other party members when you devour someone and you're set for the entire game - you only have the bosses to worry about.

DDS1 is one of my favorite SMTs ever. The music is insane, the voice acting is absolutely stellar, especially with the trick they pull, and I love the idea behind the storyline.

[HiddenWings]

Before I get this going, I do have a question. What's the best way to host a ton of images without hitting stupid bandwidth caps? The final fantasy thread really did a number on my photobucket for about a month.

Also, Persona 2 or Persona 3? I'll be playing on the PSP regardless.

[charlequin]

This is never ever ever a problem in Strange Journey. The dungeons are liberally sprinkled with enough NPC encounters, treasure chests, hidden doors, and Forma Search pings off the beaten path to make it worth exploring every nook and cranny of every Sector. Playing the game, I was surprised at how much obvious care went into making these dungeons spaces you would want to spend time in, rather than serve as obstacle courses between story point A and story point B.

Yup. Each dungeon is also designed with a very clear theme and style. It's not just "oh, this dungeon is the shopping mall, it's got shopping-mall-themed graphics," but the floor layouts, the types of mechanics inside each dungeon, etc. all fit together, and each one is very distinct from the others. It's some of the better dungeon design I can remember from any game in recent memory.

[zkylon]

DDS looks great. Kinda makes me want to find a copy...

[TurnipFritters]

SMT is still my favorite gaming series next to Metroid (and... maybe MGS). Gotta thank myself for picking up Persona 2: Eternal Punishment on an absolute whim during a random Toys R Us visit years ago. I liked the box art, and though "Oh what the hell." Man, people going through Raidou 1 again... That's tough, especially after playing Raidou 2. But I think I may try to actually start playing Persona 2 Innocent Sin. I got half-way through the fan translation, but I kinda got burned out. Doesn't help that a lot of the FAQs for IS and EP are absolutely insane sometimes; one EP FAQ in particular was very well detailed, but had some pretty... insane persona and leveling recommendations. I'm talking "Okay, you beat this dungeon, ALL YOUR PERSONAE ARE OBSOLETE. Here, grind for cards to get new ones and then grind those up to Rank 8. Oh, you finished another dungeon? Well level up 5 more levels and get entirely new personae for all five of your party members." I don't know where I got the time to finish EP in that manner when I was younger.

Looking back on it, it seems like a lot of FAQS for a lot of PSX-era RPGs were like that. But yeah, it's pretty crazy when EP FAQs are saying you absolutely need to get Minor Arcana personas or rare mutations to progress.

[charlequin]

Except the original opening/"Burn My Dread" as I discovered after downloading P3F from PSN the other day. lol. I can't believe I never played FES until now. :S

Err, the original P3 opening plays if you let it keep playing after the new one.

But the important thing is: I have Void Fire now, so his magic won't hurt me.

This kind of gets at the core of my problem with DDS: the fact that you have to plan out expenditures in advance means the quick adaptation that's so much a part of other Megaten games isn't really available here. In Nocturne or SJ, you might not be able to quickly adapt the MC's skillset, but when you run into trouble with a dungeon or boss you can go on a fusing spree to build a new team customized for your specific challenge; in DDS a lot of sequences are easy if you go in knowing which skills to learn in adance, but can be pretty tough if you're playing blind and don't develop along the right paths. (I found one of the later bosses in DDS1 agonizing because of some lacking skills, and it was my first Megaten game so I was really trying to learn as I went.)

Before I get this going, I do have a question. What's the best way to host a ton of images without hitting stupid bandwidth caps?

Imgur is our go-to recommendation these days, I believe.

DDS looks great. Kinda makes me want to find a copy...

Looking at Jucksalbe's shots really reminds me what a unique and gorgeous style DDS has. Visually and thematically the first game is a triumph. (The second half is a bit more... schizophrenic, I guess I'd say.)

[Jucksalbe]

Before I get this going, I do have a question. What's the best way to host a ton of images without hitting stupid bandwidth caps? The final fantasy thread really did a number on my photobucket for about a month.

Yeah, I had the same problem in that thread and in the end replaced all my old images in the thread when I hit that stupid bandwidth cap.
I'm now using Imgur(.com), but if you exceed a certain amount of images, you have to pay a yearly fee to still be able to organize your images properly (I think you can upload more pictures without deleting the old ones, take a look at their help page). It's not much, and I'm pretty happy with the way the site works.

Also, Persona 2 or Persona 3? I'll be playing on the PSP regardless.

3.

Looking at Jucksalbe's shots really reminds me what a unique and gorgeous style DDS has. Visually and thematically the first game is a triumph. (The second half is a bit more... schizophrenic, I guess I'd say.)

I have to point out that the game doesn't look as blurry as my screens do. I have to record via composite.

[Finalow]

-- still grinding in DDS2. I don't even have bufudyne on the main and the rest of the party is trash.

3.

why? Persona 2 is a much better game.

[Jucksalbe]

why? Persona 2 is a much better game.

Well, that's up to personal taste, I guess. But I think Persona 3 is easier to get into, if you're new to the series.

[HiddenWings]

why? Persona 2 is a much better game.

Oh. I've wandered into one of those. Why do you prefer 2? And I guess for others, why 3? What makes one a better experience over the other? I suppose I've heard 3 is more beginner-friendly, but I like reasonably complicated systems.

[we.are.the.armada]

why? Persona 2 is a much better game.

Lofty claim, finalozzo!

Can you substantiate this while taking into consideration the pros/cons of both?