[Stallion Free]

Crysis 2's dogtag system and kill confirmed in MW3 made great steps towards making camping useless. Kill confirmed in particular is going to make going back to regular TDM in other games rather hard.

[smurfx]

in fps games i'm either going on suicide runs non stop or being a super camper sniper. doesn't seem to ever go any other way for me. well except when i'm in a trolling mood and try and get my teammates killed.

[Kinyou]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/TV7ED.png[img]

Basically this. Whenever you play some realistic shooter like the old Rainbow Six games is camping more than just a legitimate tactic. It's how you meant to play.

[Sega1991]

A lot of modern games have already solved the camping "problem".

TF2, for example, has spies, which are the natural bane to camping snipers. Battlefield 3 has maps that are so wide open that a camper cannot possible cover all directions at once, so on and so forth.

[kodt]

Camping is fine. If you camp, you may get a few cheap kills, but probably you won't actually help your team win, and you wont be top of the server either. If you are playing deathmatch then the only goal is to get first place, and you won't win by camping.

If you are playing an objective type, then camping won't help (unless you are defending an objective, in which case it may be the best strategy). If you need to attack an objective, camping will just hurt your team.

I don't think we need built in punishments for campers, they hurt themselves. I know it is annoying to get killed by someone sitting in an obscure corner with no strategic advantage, learn to check corners.

[patapuf]

A lot of modern games have already solved the camping "problem". TF2, for example, has spies, which are the natural bane to camping snipers. Battlefield 3 has maps that are so wide open that a camper cannot possible cover all directions at once, so on and so forth.

the only gamemode where camping is a real problem (aka is frustrating) is TDM on small maps with lots of corners

[Hank The Tank]

Err, is camping really a problem apart from attackers not attacking on game modes where they are supposed to be?

[McLovin]

I hate campers but thats not a problem. They ususally use this strategy because they are terrible at the game. If you really wanted to you could just go wherever they are and kill them. If they are really good campers just avoid the area.

[Sojgat]

the only gamemode where camping is a real problem (aka is frustrating) is TDM on small maps with lots of corners

Again I don't even think it's a problem in TDM, if a camper kills me I attack them from a different angle, if they haven't moved then I usually get the kill. the problem is with all the people who just run back through the same area not thinking, or hoping/assuming somebody else has killed the camper.

Edit: In BF3 so many people play noshahr canals tdm, I sometimes just stand (and I mean stand not prone) by the green container near the edge of the map boundry and get silenced kills (I do not camp all the time I just get sick of this map). On one occasion I got 15 kills before anyone bothered to come and kill me. Think about that, nobody even shot in my direction even though my kill cam came up 15 times.

[Noisepurge]

Camping hasn't really been a problem in Battlefield series. the levels are huge enough that you don't generally have a problem with a sniper camping a single killzone. Or they are a part of a gamemode like rush, they are supposed to camp out the attackers.

TDM games might have it worse and COD have tried to fight it with kill confirmed and such.

[The Faceless Master]

so much this, In Battlefield you have people who run down the same path everytime and try to get the camper and then they get shot again, and again and again, never stopping to think how they could change up their tactics.

this.

on just the air duct tunnel on Operation Metro Rush, i've gotten 20+ kills in multiple games just because people keep coming down the tunnel to try and kill me after their first failed attempt to go down there ends up getting them killed.

[Derrick01]

Take sniper rifles out of the game. It's the only way because otherwise it's a people problem, and people will never stop being cheap douchebags so you have to fix it for them.

[test_account]

They need to bring out something like that chicken mod for CS, that if you camp for too long, a chicken will appear around you and make noise hehe.

Personally i dont mind camping that much. It might be annoying a few times if the same guy kills you many times in a row, but that can be annoying regardless if hes camping or not.

Crysis 2's dogtag system and kill confirmed in MW3 made great steps towards making camping useless. Kill confirmed in particular is going to make going back to regular TDM in other games rather hard.

It is a step forward indeed, but as long as other people can pick up the tags for you, it doesnt really matter much (at least they can in MW3, not sure in Crysis 2). You also get registered kills towards the killstreak (in MW3 at least) even if you dont pick up the tags. These things need to change if it shall have any effect, like you dont get any points or killed registered unless you pick up the tags yourself. But then this can be annoying to the gameplay, so it might a difficult balance.

[Noisepurge]

Take sniper rifles out of the game. It's the only way because otherwise it's a people problem, and people will never stop being cheap douchebags so you have to fix it for them.

Firstly i would take out Prone from games like COD, has no function in such fast action games. If you would take out sniper rifles you would also need to take out all assault rifles with ACOG scopes etc. :P

[Barrel Cannon]

Unreal, Quake and Halo to a certain degree are the only series that I think qualify for this. They tend to be more arena type shooters. There will always be people using cover to avoid fire so camping will always exist unless you take walls away it will always exist. But Unreal Quake, Halo discourage camping through their gameplay style. They rely more on strafing to avoid fire compared to other shooters on the market.

It's not a coincidence that other shooters on the market all have iron sights. It encourages you to aim down it to get better aim and it encourages you to find a good camping spot because you move slower in iron sights.

[michaelius]

There was no camping in Quake 3 - then consoles happened ;)

[Derrick01]

Firstly i would take out Prone from games like COD, has no function in such fast action games. If you would take out sniper rifles you would also need to take out all assault rifles with ACOG scopes etc. :P

I'm fine with that too. It is a fast paced game and I feel like I'm one of the few who plays it like it's supposed to be played. I'm almost never in the same spot for more than 3 seconds and I never go prone for any reason.

[adelante]

Again I don't even think it's a problem in TDM, if a camper kills me I attack them from a different angle, if they haven't moved then I usually get the kill. the problem is with all the people who just run back through the same area not thinking, or hoping/assuming somebody else has killed the camper.

Pretty much, and I was guilty of this too. You get so caught up with the game's pace that you'd blindly take the same path towards the camper and somehow hope you can avoid getting killed again.

But I know better than to do that these days, probably helped that I'm a more patient gamer now, always wary of my surroundings and not rushing all the time lol. In fact, I've had tons of fun hunting down campers and tormenting them with stickies: http://youtu.be/WMBzcHyEOzc (ended up getting the highest score in that match too)

I think that for every camper there is in a combat-arena type of fps game, there'll always be a couple of people who are dumb enough to try and kill them head-on.

[neorej]

that's really not true. Usually you have spotter and a sniper who overlook a specific area and they indeed do camp.

Depends on the mission; sometimes the sniper acts as an all-seeing entity, stays on one spot with a high caliber, long range weapon.
Other missions, mostly urban or dense forests, will require the sniper to move around since there is not a single spot to layeth the smack down. Also; smart enemies can tell where the nest is in these type of areas.

[ThoseDeafMutes]

There is room for FPS to grow in multiple directions, but I for one can't stand MP games where people run around like dickheads spraying automatic weapons or quick scoping for the easy kill. Millions of gamers evidently can't get enough of it, though.

[Relaxed Muscle]

the only gamemode where camping is a real problem (aka is frustrating) is TDM on small maps with lots of corners

Never had a Rush game where the whole defending team was camping near B first set on Grand Bazaar? Lucky guy.

I felt that camping in BC2 was less of a problem, I mean having several recons in any team was rarely a way to success. But definetly nothing came ever close to COD, I mean the design of the maps and the game itself favours camping.

[viewtiful_dru]

Camping is for sure a legit strategy but that doesn't mean that games can't be made that make it less effective whether it be by pure game mechanics or map design

[patapuf]

Never had a Rush game where the whole defending team was camping near B first set on Grand Bazaar? Lucky guy.

Well i'm not going to rage when the defending team is defending in the most effective way. It's a bit lame but they are playing the objective.

that first set is simply bad map design and DICE has done quite a few really bad crates in BF3

[Caesar III]

Camping like in those rage videos shown on page one is not fun. But imho Camping and Sniping are not exactly the same. A sniper is needed for observation, guidance and backup for a team.

BF3 really does reward the people who are more into teamwork than their own personal k/d ratio.

I can only agree to a certain degree to this. I bought BF3 just recently and am playing recon most of the time. Not for the camping and sniping but for the teamwork of spotting etc. As you mentioned Assault and Engineer do get the majority of the points. I myself find that to be a bit unfair cause most of the time they only get those shots cause I spotted the enemies. I only get 10 points for spotting and 20 or something like this when they get the kill...It takes forever to get a rank up as recon that way. So you are forced to shoot people (in close combat with non-recon weapons or by sniping them from good spots).

[M3d10n]

Include a spy class like in TF2?

What about spies camping the same spots with the cloak and dagger?

[The Albatross]

I'm with the gang that says camping is a legitimate strategy hat has plusses and minuses. In a lot of goal-oriented games. camping gets you nowhere... but people play many of those games not to achieve the goal, but to get the highest score.

Camping doesn't bother me. There's nothing wrong with utilizing your environment anymore than there is utilizing your favorite gun.

[TTP]

How many seconds do you need to stay idle in order to be considered "camper"?

Am I camping if, knowing an enemy is coming from behind a corner, I go prone and get ready to headshot him as soon as he pops out?

I don't think that's camping, but I'm sure it would feel like that to the other guy.

[Rebel Leader]

EDIT:nvm

Could not post what I wanted from a phone

[Nealand Liquor]

Ah yes another sniper hate thread. When playing bf I usually catch so much shit during the first couple matches for being a "fuckin camper ruining the game and not helping the team" until they see me on top of the leaderboard almost every match. If the position is played correctly, it is a massive benefit to the team.

[Sega1991]

What about spies camping the same spots with the cloak and dagger?

Learn to Spy Check better

[ihearthawthats]

objective based maps. cs_ and de_ solved the camping "problem" just fine.

[secondspace]

Never had a Rush game where the whole defending team was camping near B first set on Grand Bazaar? Lucky guy.

The point where Rush on BF3 crosses the line from being badly designed to something else entirely. Couldn't help thinking that this was why the USAS/Frag combo existed. It seemed like the only reliable counter, of course it broke the rest of the game.

[animlboogy]

Whining about camping is such a joke. Learn the map, put a bullet in the back of the guy's head. During the Red Orchestra 2 free weekend it was so obnoxious hearing people whine about players needing to "be a man not a pussy" because they were doing exactly what a sniper should be doing.

I don't even play sniper that game. I play assault and flush snipers out, instead of crying about having to learn a map and wishing people made easy targets of themselves.

The only time camping was a problems was when Quake had respawns marked. Never since, barring a few awful maps.

[Lonely1]

That's what I loved (love?) about the Wii CoD's. Camping was hardly prevalent.

[animlboogy]

Ah yes another sniper hate thread. When playing bf I usually catch so much shit during the first couple matches for being a "fuckin camper ruining the game and not helping the team" until they see me on top of the leaderboard almost every match. If the position is played correctly, it is a massive benefit to the team.

Yep. As long as enough players are running objectives, taking out that many players and keeping them on the respawn wait list is important.

And again... This being BF, you still have to find good positions in multiple places on th map, all of which you could get killed from if someone bothered to figure out what you're doing.

[bjb]

The only people I've encounter who complain or whine about "camping" are people who are simply not good at the game, or completely insecure of their own playskill.

[Mechanized]

You mean the problem where people cry about campers because they can't figure out how to counter them? Nah, doubt it.

[rapid32.5]

Resistance Fall of Man, always visible on radar, no quickscoping, no prone, no killstreaks. I didn't see campers there.

[The Technomancer]

Tribes Ascend actually has such a fast gameplay and such long-range weaponry that it's actually pretty dumb to stand on one point, even as a sniper.

Good answer, if you're not moving in that game you're doing it wrong. I'd say TF2 is pretty good about this as well, especially when it first came out and the kill-cam was novel

[tci]

The only people I've encounter who complain or whine about "camping" are people who are simply not good at the game, or completely insecure of their own playskill.

heh. That's the way I look at snipers. And why those I know camp in games.

The problem I have with snipers is team work. They rarely do much other than have high k/d ratio.

[Dreams-Visions]

Set them on "hot coals", so to speak. So you have to keep moving or your health slowly deteriorates.

I like this.

But I don't know how some classes stay relevant, like Sniper.

I'm more tired of seeing run-n-gun snipers than camping ones, you know? Maybe if the "hot coals" were class-specific.

[Derrick01]

heh. That's the way I look at snipers. And why those I know camp in games. The problem I have with snipers is team work. They rarely do much other than have high k/d ratio.

Yeah if anything it's chronic snipers/campers that aren't good at the game, they exist purely to troll everyone else trying to have fun. That's why people get so mad at them.

Best time I've had playing a MP game was Black Ops because there was very limited sniping, at least at first, due to the sizes and spacing of most maps so people had to actually move around and play the game. No surprise it's also the game I had my best K/D ratio in, because I was likely killing bad players who would have resorted to camping normally.

[Jorok Goldblade]

Problem solved:

[aasoncott]

Did anyone else play multiplayer Deus Ex?

... no? Did anyone else even know that Deus Ex had multiplayer patched into it? If not, you really missed out. You could select augmentations for your character, but each slot was essentially a choice between an awesome augmentation and an augmentation that made it easier to fight people with that aug. This meant that it tended to be extremely camp-friendly, but your strategy always had to keep changing. You can cloak, but other players might have augmented vision that will allow them to see you anyway. You can camp the heat-seeking GEP, but other players might have an automatic defence system that will protect them, making it almost useless.

You could switch augmentations between deaths, too, so strategy was always shifting. It was the best multiplayer I've ever played. It made camping fun. It wasn't particularly balanced, but it was the shining jewel of LAN parties with my friends.

[M3d10n]

Learn to Spy Check better

The sniper that camps the pyro that camps the spy that camps the... got it!

[animlboogy]

Did anyone else play multiplayer Deus Ex? ... no? Did anyone else even know that Deus Ex had multiplayer patched into it? If not, you really missed out. You could select augmentations for your character, but each slot was essentially a choice between an awesome augmentation and an augmentation that made it easier to fight people with that aug. This meant that it tended to be extremely camp-friendly, but your strategy always had to keep changing. You can cloak, but other players might have augmented vision that will allow them to see you anyway. You can camp the heat-seeking GEP, but other players might have an automatic defence system that will protect them, making it almost useless. You could switch augmentations between deaths, too, so strategy was always shifting. It was the best multiplayer I've ever played. It made camping fun. It wasn't particularly balanced, but it was the shining jewel of LAN parties with my friends.

I always wanted to try it. It's too bad they didn't bring it back for HR, we could really use some creative head-to-head stuff these days. Although having Tribes back certainly helps!

[RedSwirl]

Remove Kill/Death ratios from all modes except deathmatch and team deathmatch. As a habitual camper myself, racking up kills is the main reason why people do it, but racking up kills doesn't do any good in objective-based modes. Your score in objective-based modes should be based on whether your team won and your contribution to the team, period.

Otherwise, camping is a legitimate strategy in games and even more so in actual combat. For some reason I tend to see more camping prevalent in the more realistic shooters which says something. Even in objective-based modes camping is probably a good strategy for the defending team.

COD4 essentially solved it. You had killcam, well-designed maps and decent but not overpowering killstreaks that could flush people out. Then the sequels ruined it.

If anything, for me camping got harder after COD4. I camped like a motherfucker in that game.

Problem solved:

Yeah, unless you decide to camp WITH that gun. I pretty much broke Perfect Dark multiplayear with that strategy: I'd lock myself in a room with proximity minds and laptop guns and just pull out the Farsight. Most broken gun I've ever used in MP.

[shadowsdarknes]

I think spawn camping is more a problem than just camping some random building.

[EatinOlives]

Tribes Ascend actually has such a fast gameplay and such long-range weaponry that it's actually pretty dumb to stand on one point, even as a sniper.

You just made me realize why exactly I love Tribes Ascend. It's the fact that I hate campers and snipers in any game, and Tribes makes the former completely useless and the latter very ineffective.

So if any of you guys hate campers/snipers with a passion, Tribes is the answer.

[Sojgat]

Yeah if anything it's chronic snipers/campers that aren't good at the game, they exist purely to troll everyone else trying to have fun. That's why people get so mad at them. Best time I've had playing a MP game was Black Ops because there was very limited sniping, at least at first, due to the sizes and spacing of most maps so people had to actually move around and play the game. No surprise it's also the game I had my best K/D ratio in, because I was likely killing bad players who would have resorted to camping normally.

No, it's because they took out quickscoping, then later patched it back in, although it was never as easy or effective as it was in MW2.