[Refreshment.01]

We have talked about this but most of the time as a tangent in other threads. But my recent experience with a game impelled me to create this thread and dissipate some what.

The industry and it's biggest market specially (America) it's in an action game oriented phase with the dominant genre at the moment being shooters. The more or less established control method is dual analog for movement and camera control, this forces the player to invest most of the "thumb time" in the sticks, so the more time the game doesn't force the player to move from that default position the better.

The specific game case that triggered this topic is in Human Revolution. The designers set in a vast amount of boxes that can be pick up and interacted by the player. In the default controller option, i had to take away the thumb from the stick to push the interaction button, this amounts to thousands of times in a playthrough. Not game braking at all but not optimal either.

We have been playing like this for long and i think that's precisely the problem. So for years, i can't figure out why no manufacturer has incorporated a way for the controller to detect the grip applied to a its handles by the fingers. Middle finger, ring finger, and little finger are much of the time inactive interaction wise, serving just as support.

I think a gripping input method could become the main interaction button in games. It's a really natural interface method that the user can relate to, while maintaining control of movement and camera positioning. See a weapon, box or switch to interact with and just squeeze the controller with the those 3 fingers that most of the time remain idle.

Nintendo had a moment of illumination when they splitted the controller in two, the other piece of the puzzle was coming up with a way to detect pressure in the handle surface. Kind of disappointing seeing them pursue other ventures with the WiiU controller and ignored the evolution path for the Wii Remote.

There are other neglected features that with might discuss in this thread but this first post is long enough already.

[MadOdorMachine]

I'd like a trackball in place of the right analog stick and a scroll wheel in place of the right bumper or R1. A trackball is a logical choice for shooters and the scroll wheel could be used to zoom in or quickly switch between inventories.

[Glass Rebel]

There's one thing the Saitek Cyborg Rumble got right:

Sadly the d-pad and the analog "sinks" are awful.

[Diablohead]

VMU needed a return but we have wii u doing that on a much bigger scale.

[Rivyn]

There's one thing the Saitek Cyborg Rumble got right: Sadly the d-pad and the analog "sinks" are awful.

Switchable d-pad and analog sticks? I kind of like that.

[Good Job Bob]

Always on vibration.

[KevinCow]

My controller should also be able to double as my memory card when bringing my profile to a friend's house.

I just upload my profile to my controller and bring it over, we start playing a game, and it automatically detects my name and all my customized options and we just get going.

[BadWolf]

OP, so basically you want the Vita rear touch on a controller?

[Rivyn]

My controller should also be able to double as my memory card when bringing my profile to a friend's house. I just upload my profile to my controller and bring it over, we start playing a game, and it automatically detects my name and all my customized options and we just get going.

Kind of like the N64 era with the memory card.

I would prefer that we can save everything on a cloud based system and then get it back from another console by simply logging in.

[Refreshment.01]

There's one thing the Saitek Cyborg Rumble got right: Sadly the d-pad and the analog "sinks" are awful.

This is one of the other features i wished to discuss, modular button placement. This make so much sense not just because ergonomics and user preference but of durability issues also. Would be great in an expensive controller like the WiiU. Even if you took great care of the controller and its screen buttons and sticks will get lose over time. A modular approach would solve this.

[Ein Bear]

VMU needed a return but we have wii u doing that on a much bigger scale.

I now demand that the Wii U controller makes the loud battery beep whenever you turn it on.

[Router]

Food pellet released in sync with achievements/trophies.

[Glass Rebel]

Switchable d-pad and analog sticks? I kind of like that.

Yup, I think it's bound to look clunky and ugly but I'm not a designer so I'm sure someone could come up with a better solution.

My controller should also be able to double as my memory card when bringing my profile to a friend's house. I just upload my profile to my controller and bring it over, we start playing a game, and it automatically detects my name and all my customized options and we just get going.

Like the Wii remote? I liked that it had that future for some games but I never got to use it :lol Afaik you could even bring over your Monster Hunter 3 character over but I'm not sure.

[k91191]

Dedicated Facebook button.

[Refreshment.01]

OP, so basically you want the Vita rear touch on a controller?

Not exactly the same Badwolf. Vita rear touch pad is kind of a spin of the DS dual screen, so the interaction works like a track pad, pushing or swiping it and not actually squeezing it. What i purpose is basically introducing a very natural gesture like grabbing as interaction method that fits perfectly an ample variety of actions in games.

[KevinCow]

Kind of like the N64 era with the memory card. I would prefer that we can save everything on a cloud based system and then get it back from another console by simply logging in.

My solution would be quicker and simpler, wouldn't require an internet connection, and wouldn't require constantly logging in and out.

Like the Wii remote? I liked that it had that future for some games but I never got to use it :lol Afaik you could even bring over your Monster Hunter 3 character over but I'm not sure.

Exactly like the Wiimote. I was disappointed that that feature was literally never used.

[Rehynn]

+1 for modularity.

I also want a regular twin-stick controller that can be taken apart and used Wiimote + Nunchuk style, only better -> right stick for camera control, motion for quick precision aiming.

[Skyfireblaze]

I like the idea of the controller acting like a memory device, it would make certain things so much easier. And when I think of it, 256mb-512mb of flash memory shouldn't be too expensive nowadays so controllers could act the primary storage device.

Another idea I would like to be tested atleast, would trackballs maybe work better than right analog sticks for FPS gaming? I'm not sure on that one but I believe it's worth a try in R&D atleast.

I now demand that the Wii U controller makes the loud battery beep whenever you turn it on.

When I got my Dreamcast three years ago and turned it on for the first time, the controller with a VMU inside was behind me on a sofa and made that beep, I literally fell over backwards and shouted "WHAT THE...?!" :P

[BradleyLove]

I'd like a trackball in place of the right analog stick and a scroll wheel in place of the right bumper or R1. A trackball is a logical choice for shooters and the scroll wheel could be used to zoom in or quickly switch between inventories.

And what about other games that aren't shooters? A trackball is an awful idea that would be limited in usefulness to a single genre.

[MadOdorMachine]

And what about other games that aren't shooters? A trackball is an awful idea that would be limited in usefulness to a single genre.

It could still be used for controlling a camera. What specifically are you talking about, racers?

[Inkblot]

I sort of understand what you're saying OP, I'm imagining a lot of moving joints and such?

I think adding a scroll wheel would make more sense

[Koren]

I would prefer that we can save everything on a cloud based system and then get it back from another console by simply logging in.

You have to log, still (and suppose that the console of your friends is connected online)

I truly like the idea of the wiimote holding a profile, and by uploading the profile just by syncing it. It's not enough used, unfortunately. I'm still happy to be able to take my Mii and a couple of other things with me.

In fact, you should be able in a family to have different wiimotes for each people and simply logging into a personal account by powering the console with your wiimote.

[Skyfireblaze]

And what about other games that aren't shooters? A trackball is an awful idea that would be limited in usefulness to a single genre.

Sorry I'm still a bit sleepy so I forgot one part. I actually meant it should be tested and if it's viable it could be added as a controller module so you can either put on the trackball or a stick.

[Refreshment.01]

+1 for modularity. I also want a regular twin-stick controller that can be taken apart and used Wiimote + Nunchuk style, only better -> right stick for camera control, motion for quick precision aiming.

And finally this completes what i consider the holy trilogy of most wanted controller features. A controller with Wii Remote/Nuchuck functionality that can be integrated into one traditional controller. The cool thing is that this one is resting at a design table, i think in Gyration. The transformable controller is fantastic control evolution that have been neglected and is sitting right there for MS or Sony to implement.

This could be applied with a Razor Hydra type of solution which is independent of line of sight.

Another idea I would like to be tested atleast, would trackballs maybe work better than right analog sticks for FPS gaming? I'm not sure on that one but I believe it's worth a try in R&D atleast.

The problem with trackballs apart from durability is that it's uses are more specific. The thumb stick while not as precise cover a lot more of possible necessities and keeps things a bit more symmetrical. That's why it has cached on, is such a convenient input method.

[Ninja Moomin]

Proper headphone jack.

[SLEEPS7ALK3R]

Win button.

[BGBW]

Nose scratcher.

[Skyfireblaze]

The problem with trackballs apart from durability is that it's uses are more specific. The thumb stick while not as precise cover a lot more of possible necessities and keeps things a bit more symmetrical. That's why it has cached on, is such a convenient input method.

Point taken, what you say makes sense yeah. I'm not even keen on FPS games with controllers, just remembering the whole "console players cold play together with PC players" had this lingering in my mind. :)

[Refreshment.01]

Proper headphone jack.

The 3DO controller had this. Only redeeming feature of that device. As a piece of trivia the first 3DO had one controller port only.

Point taken, what you say makes sense yeah. I'm not even keen on FPS games with controllers, just remembering the whole "console players cold play together with PC players" had this lingering in my mind. :)

That it's true, precision wise dual analog controller shooters are a joke. But this type of control method is so damn convenient you end up sacrificing accuracy for functionality. Since the PS2 introduced industry standardized ports like USB, i always thought that devs should have adopted widely the feature to plug a keyboard and mouse to control shooters in the single player campaigns. Just some selected games did this and it felt great.

[Skyfireblaze]

That it's true, precision wise dual analog controller shooters are a joke. But this type of control method is so damn convenient you end up sacrificing accuracy for functionality. Since the PS2 introduced industry standardized ports like USB, i always thought that devs should have adopted widely the feature to plug a keyboard and mouse to control shooters in the single player campaigns. Just some selected games did this and it felt great.

Yeah I agree with you the convenience is what pushed dual sticks so hard and I also agree that atleast the singleplayer campaigns should be playable with a mouse and a keyboard, especially since all consoles already recognize keyboards (and even mice if I remember that correctly) and just lock them out of games on purpose.

[SuperEpicMan]

I think you have raised something that will be addressed in the next gen consoles. I think sony will end up redesigning the PS controller significantly, the fact that they added a rear touch pad to the vita shows they are trying to shake things up.

[Refreshment.01]

I sort of understand what you're saying OP, I'm imagining a lot of moving joints and such?

I did some very superficial research so this might not work as expected, i was thinking covering the handles with something that works like this material:

http://www.pressureprofile.com/produ...rs-conformable

Imagine a controller like WiiRemote + that also had the ability to detect grip pressure. In Human Revolution i've could just pick a box up by gripping the remote surface and manipulate it's position in space by rotating and tilting the remote, while at the same time moving around the character with the thumb stick.

I think adding a scroll wheel would make more sense

A scroll wheel could prove useful and controllers today have enough space to put one around. Maybe it could be integrated as a bumper scroll wheel hybrid.

[ElFly]

And what about other games that aren't shooters? A trackball is an awful idea that would be limited in usefulness to a single genre.

There's a lot of non-shooter games that use the right stick for camera control, so those would be benefited too.



Someone mentioned a scrollwheel instead of a trigger?, but maybe that's not the best idea. The 3d0 M2 thread from a few months ago had me salivating at this:



A wheel around the d-pad. That'd be nice.

[Jaded Alyx]

Proper headphone jack.

[-PXG-]

Dedicated screenshot and record buttons. Put them on the rear of the controller, where you rest your fingers. Make them large, flushed pads that double as comfort grips

[massoluk]

Headphone jack and microphone. I thought these would have been obvious.

[Dacvak]

Controllers don't need any built-in memory for saving - all saving should be done on the cloud.

However, it'd be nice if every controller contained a MAC ID that you could register to your account, that way you could just plug into someone else's console, enter your password, and have all relevant data downloaded from the cloud.

[AndyMoogle]

Dedicated screenshot and record buttons. Put them on the rear of the controller, where you rest your fingers. Make them large, flushed pads that double as comfort grips

Yup. Video recording has to be built into the next gen OSs.

I also agree with that the controller should have some storage space on it, like the Wiimote. 64MB or so should be enough for a gamertag and a few save files.

Controllers don't need any built-in memory for saving - all saving should be done on the cloud. However, it'd be nice if every controller contained a MAC ID that you could register to your account, that way you could just plug into someone else's console, enter your password, and have all relevant data downloaded from the cloud.

I guess that would work, and they wouldn't have to spend anything on storage in the controller. It would be way faster to just store your gamertag on the controller though.

[snoopeasystreet]

Force feedback in the analogue sticks.

[Bjoern the Smexy]

There's one thing the Saitek Cyborg Rumble got right: Sadly the d-pad and the analog "sinks" are awful.

THIS is what controllers need. Seriously.
Let me Swap the Left Stick with the D-Pad. Also let me swap the Face Buttons with the Right Stick if I so desire. Shouldn't be so hard to make if a third party manufacturer was able to get this shit done.

I mean, I seriously prefer the GameCube-/Xbox 360-style of arrangements of Sticks, D-Pad and Face Buttons. Please let me be able to play in that kinda fashion on all consoles.

[Nerfgun]

Headphone jack and microphone. I thought these would have been obvious.

Came to post this. Way overdue!

[Skyfireblaze]

Controllers don't need any built-in memory for saving - all saving should be done on the cloud. However, it'd be nice if every controller contained a MAC ID that you could register to your account, that way you could just plug into someone else's console, enter your password, and have all relevant data downloaded from the cloud.

While in theory this sounds like a good idea it just wouldn't be feasible yet as stable, fast and reliable internet is not as widespread as it seems. It would be nice as a backup solution like PSN+ currently has but saving only on the cloud would make things a mess in my opinion.

[Fudgepuppy]

I want a controller where the grips feels like guns with kick-back, triggers and handles.

Something like this:

[Refreshment.01]

That's a terrific Ucon shot to explain a bit more the feature. Imagine making a more curved surface for the middle, anular and small finger to hold and a cover it with tactile pressure sensor. If you were playing Halo instead of press and hold "X" to pick a weapon, the user will need only to do a slight increase of grip to do the same action. It's a more human interface method and the index and thumb fingers would remain in their more optimal position, that is, resting in the sticks and triggers.

[chixdiggit]

Not really a feature but I want to be able to play console exclusives with a mouse and keyboard. I hope they give us the option next gen.

[Lizard with a ladder]

My controller should also be able to double as my memory card when bringing my profile to a friend's house. I just upload my profile to my controller and bring it over, we start playing a game, and it automatically detects my name and all my customized options and we just get going.

This.

The controller should allow multiple profiles for the same game. I have friend that has the weirdest control setup for SSFIV. When theres a bunch of us hanging out and the controller with his setting get's passed around. The game needs to be paused every damn time to change the control scheme.

Having multiple controller profiles should be mandatory next gen.

[OnPoint]

Not really a feature but I want to be able to play console exclusives with a mouse and keyboard. I hope they give us the option next gen.

And miss out on selling you controllers for 50 to 60 bucks a pop? I don't think that's going to be on the table.

[-PXG-]

Cloud saves should be an option, not the sole means of uploading saves when you're away from your home console.

Give us both cloud and built on controller memory.

[Curufinwe]

I want a controller where the grips feels like guns with kick-back, triggers and handles. Something like this:

Thank you, I was about to start searching for that controller online but I couldn't remember the name. I would love a better quality version of that controller with top quality analog sticks.

[The Albatross]

Built in sensors or some sort of interaction on the hand-rests is an interesting idea. Of course it brings up my questions of useability, but it does introduce some interesting applications. I could see it being used for non-precise control areas, like say, the turbo/spped burst in Madden, or for inventory management in other games. I wouldn't want it for precise controls because the ability to accidentally squeeze one of those is pretty high.