[brotkasten]

Isnt this the RC/RTM?

Developer Preview = Milestone 3/Pre-Beta
Consumer Preview = Beta
Release Preview = RC

Microsoft went away with the traditional naming scheme, because it's meaningless these days. Everything from Google is beta, Siri is beta. Beta, beta, beta.

The RC isn't the RTM. The RTM will be signed off about two months.

[Yoshiya]

How so? Just curious as to if it's worth upgrading over from windows 7.

Integration of the Office "Ribbon" into Windows Explorer really streamlines the interface while remaining pretty powerful for file management purposes. I dislike the general Win 7 UI for that reason; I'll be switching permanently with the Release Preview.

[Antiwhippy]

Huh, really? I always felt that the ribbon just exposes functionality to people who didn't know they were there. Probably easier to access those functions, but doesn't seem worth the upgrade to me. How does it streamline it?

Plus honestly with the way I use explorer windows I don't really like the real estate it takes up.

[Doopliss]

I really can't stand the hot-corners nonsense. Especially the charms bar, that thing is 80% useless is desktop mode but it pops up at least once a day blocking my task bar. So obnoxious.

[brotkasten]

Related to this second point is information I’ve received that Microsoft has been furiously ripping out legacy code in Windows 8 that would have enabled third parties to bring back the Start button, Start Menu, and other software bits that could have made this new OS look and work like its predecessor. In fact, I’ve seen that several well-known UI hacks that worked fine with the Windows 8 Consumer Preview are no longer functional in the coming Release Preview. And those with hopes that Microsoft would allow businesses, at least, to boot directly to the desktop should prepare for disappointment. That feature not only isn’t happening, it’s being removed from Windows Server 12 (Windows 8’s stable mate) as well.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...inesses-143238

[godelsmetric]

Integration of the Office "Ribbon" into Windows Explorer really streamlines the interface while remaining pretty powerful for file management purposes. I dislike the general Win 7 UI for that reason; I'll be switching permanently with the Release Preview.

I still disagree with this ribbon thing. I'm still finding it more (pointlessly) fiddly and complex than the W7 solution. It basically smacks of ignoring different UI needs in different situations and assuming that because it works great in Office (and I agree that it does), it should be UI-wide. But the difference is that the classic UI problem in Office is that there's a huge number of options and not enough space for them, so you end up with four lines of tiny buttons with no text. But there was never not enough space in the explorer taskbar, especially once they added context-sensitive buttons in Vista and W7.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...inesses-143238

"The reason Windows is better than Mac OS is that they give you all those customisability options..."

[JaggedSac]

So much better ^_^ inb4 lm8r 'omg thats awfullllllll!'

Now lets get all app developers to update their desktop apps to adhere to the new asthetic instead of working on Metro apps. MS would love that.

[InaudibleWhispa]

I spend 99.9% of my time out of the start menu, so Windows 8 really doesn't feel all that different to me and the changes introduced to the desktop are pretty much universally superior. Saying its the worst OS ever because the incredibly small amount of time you spend in the new start menu is "a bit jarring" is utterly ridiculous. The amount of times metro negatively interferes with my desktop experience is so small that it almost isn't worth mentioning.

I agree that the jump to metro when you press start is jarring initially. It doesn't need to take up a full screen on a desktop device and it doesn't gel with the look of the desktop. That is a genuine criticism. But functionally I don't feel at a loss. I still have my programs pinned to the taskbar and start menu, and I still press start and type to search as I did. Things will change if/when I buy a hybrid/Windows 8 tablet device. Then the benefits of the Metro interface will really become apparent. But as a desktop only user right now most of my time with Windows 8 has felt like... most of my time with Windows 7. The desktop experience really isn't all that different.

[giga]

Now lets get all app developers to update their desktop apps to adhere to the new asthetic instead of working on Metro apps. MS would love that.

Yeah, we definitely wouldn't want people developing for that legacy desktop anymore.

[kruis]

Windows seems to suck every other update. 98: good ME: bad XP: good Vista: bad Windows 7: good Windows 8: bad See a pattern here?

You forget Windows 9: worse

Don't forget that according to MS the desktop is legacy, tablets are the future. MS is actively trying to destroy the desktop OS in order to win back the tablet/phone space they lost to Apple and Google.

[ZombieSupaStar]

You forget Windows 9: worse Don't forget that according to MS the desktop is legacy, tablets are the future. MS is actively trying to destroy the desktop OS in order to win back the tablet/phone space they lost to Apple and Google.

so basically what they did to pc gaming, because xbox.

[brotkasten]

Are you ready for the Ultra Touch Books?

Intel Touts Multi-Touch Ultrabooks Ahead of Windows 8 Launch With Microsoft widely expected to launch the final pre-release version of Windows 8 in the days ahead, the software giant’s biggest partner, Intel, is talking up second generation versions of its Ultrabook portable computer design that will feature multi-touch capabilities and work with the new OS. According to Intel, over 30 touch-enabled Ultrabooks will ship alongside Windows 8, with at least 10 of those being convertible PC designs that can be used as slate-type tablets. “One of the big focuses we have is on touch,” says Intel vice president Kirk Skaugen, noting that there now over 110 new Ultrabook designs in progress at PC makers around the world.

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...-launch-143265

Finally, the unicorn devices everyone is talking about!

[Antiwhippy]

Tablet hybrids are why I'm really interested in 8, not so much the desktop.

[Cheebo]

so basically what they did to pc gaming, because xbox.

Tech industry changes. Bill Gates had been fully on board the tablet replacing the traditional PC for the vast majority of consumers movement for a while. He preached the Post-PC revolution since about 2001.

[brotkasten]

Tablet hybrids are why I'm really interested in 8, not so much the desktop.

There's some great stuff coming.

I'd love a Thinkpad with a detachable screen. I had an X220 Tablet for a while and didn't like the extra bulk of the keyboard and battery, but I want that iconic Thinkpad design. Why do I never get the things I want? :(

[Zulithe]

Yup, I want to get a new MacBook Pro this year but what I REALLY want is a macbook air-style windows machine that also can flip the screen around and fold into tablet mode. This is ultimately where I think a lot of ultrabooks will be heading. Can't wait!

[Antiwhippy]

The Lenovo Yoga looked really interesting when it was first announced.

[brotkasten]

The Lenovo Yoga looked really interesting when it was first announced.

It really did.

Then you thought about it for like 30 seconds and realized how stupid that idea is.

[MrBig]

It'll just be revolving style flip screens and asus transform style stuff notebooks for the the most part. Having an exposed keyboard is a deal breaker for flipping screens. The revolving and detachable (and of course naked tablets) scenario would pretty much be just like it is for phones now. Some come with keyboards, some dock, and the rest are just the screen. All x86. WinRT can go diaf.

[Diprosalic]

MS is actively trying to destroy the desktop OS in order to win back the tablet/phone space they lost to Apple and Google.

no. apple does. and they're succeeding which scares the crap out of MS hence windows 8.

[jagowar]

http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...inesses-143238

Actually that article shows why now is the perfect time to make this transition... because of how successful win7 is it will continue to sell in the business space.

It lets ms get the infrastructure ready for metro over the next few years (500+ million new win8 ready pc's in the market, all major apps metrofied, etc)..... and they can do it w/o taking a significant revenue loss.

[brotkasten]

Not only users don't want apps, developers don't want them either!

Some programmers remain unconvinced of the need to make games, magazines or other online tools for a software maker more than two years late to the tablet market. Facebook Inc. (FB), the world’s largest social network, has no plans to make a Windows 8 app even though it makes apps for the iOS and Android, according to a person with knowledge of the matter. Flipboard, whose CEO is ex-Microsoft executive Mike McCue, isn’t planning a Windows 8 version, said Marci McCue, head of marketing for the company, which is based in Palo Alto, California. Flipboard’s app, which aggregates a user’s social- networking feeds, has built apps for the iPad and tablets that run Android. Other big app makers, including Zynga Inc. (ZNGA), PopCap Games, Twitter Inc., Pandora Media Inc. (P) and Amazon.com Inc. (AMZN), declined to comment on their plans for Windows 8.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...dows-apps.html

[Windu]

I've been on W8 CP since the day it launched. My greatest gripe with it was how stupid and difficult it is to hit the corners on multiple monitors which has been tackled now and should be resolved for the upcoming RP.

yep, that was my biggest issue too.

[killer rin]

Are you ready for the Ultra Touch Books? http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...-launch-143265 Finally, the unicorn devices everyone is talking about!

The hybrids are what I'm the most interested about. I'm curious to see how they sell. Sadly though this news just makes me more jealous as Microsoft will probably release windows 8 in October/November and since I head off to college in September, will be needing a laptop for school work. I'm going to be outdated right out of the gate!

Not only users don't want apps, developers don't want them either! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...dows-apps.html

See, I find that kind of idiotic. Isn't the most intelligent option to program for the largest audience? It both increases total possible revenue, and total possible downloads. Windows is a big deal, and since Metro Apps will run on both X86 and Arm, even if Windows 8 Tablets don't kick off, they will still have an exponential amount of people to sell/market to

[SCHUEY F1]

Not only users don't want apps, developers don't want them either! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...dows-apps.html

If they can't muster the resources to make an app for several hundred million users then that's sad. Tools are so good how difficult can it be?

[Divvy]

To be fair, facebook is a pretty shitty company.

[maeh2k]

Not only users don't want apps, developers don't want them either! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...dows-apps.html

Not developing for Win 8 is idiotic. Especially the big developers should really get their stuff on there, since MS only takes a 20% cut as soon as an app makes 25.000$. This wait-and-see approach is not good for the platform.

[JaggedSac]

Maybe they are thinking that desktop users won't buy apps?

[Cheebo]

Apps would be for the tablet side of Windows 8 primarily. Desktop users just use the browser to hit facebook/amazon/twitter/etc. Tablet users would be the ones primarily using apps as is the case today with Android & Apple tablets. The support of desktop users purchasing or downloading those apps would be nill.

And there is absolutley no indication that there will be a base of Windows 8 tablet users out there downloading these apps. For all we know Windows 8 tablets could have little to no impact on the market like is the case with Windows Phone.

[kruis]

Not developing for Win 8 is idiotic. Especially the big developers should really get their stuff on there, since MS only takes a 20% cut as soon as an app makes 25.000$. This wait-and-see approach is not good for the platform.

Why should big developers have to turn great full featured desktop applications into limited touch friendly Metro apps? A simpe tool like MS Paint makes sense as a Metro app, Photoshop CS on Metro is ridiculous.

[Treefingers]

See, I find that kind of idiotic. Isn't the most intelligent option to program for the largest audience? It both increases total possible revenue, and total possible downloads. Windows is a big deal, and since Metro Apps will run on both X86 and Arm, even if Windows 8 Tablets don't kick off, they will still have an exponential amount of people to sell/market to

I'm assuming they're waiting to see how the launch goes and how Windows 8 ends up being perceived by users before making a decision. Which sounds reasonable to me. There are a lot of unknowns at this point.

[Cheebo]

Success on the desktop market means little to nothing about Windows prospects on tablets, which is where the app market is. Desktop users don't use apps like tablet users (and smartphone users).

Apple has a near monopoly over the tablet side of the PC market, but a slim marketshare on desktops. These things don't go hand in hand.

Predicting Windows 8 success on tablets due to Windows sustained success on Desktops makes little sense. Even if they share the same basic OS. Look at Android, huge hit on smartphones yet a flop on tablets despite sharing the same OS.

Smartphones, tablets, and desktop markets are all their own things, success in one doesn't = success in another.

[jagowar]

Success on the desktop market means little to nothing about Windows prospects on tablets, which is where the app market is. Desktop users don't use apps like tablet (and smartphone users).

People don't download applications in windows? news to me.

[Cheebo]

People don't download applications in windows? news to me.

Apps for websites like Facebook, twitter, etc? No. Which are the examples above.

[Cjdamon042]

Apps for websites like Facebook, twitter, etc? No. Which are the examples above.

Saying that, I rarely use the actual Twitter website but instead opt for Tweetdeck, which I guess in a sense is an "app". It can also be used for things like Facebook, but I choose to use the website for Facebook for functionality (and so Tweetdeck isn't spammed to hell and back).

So personally I wouldn't mind an app for Facebook and Twitter, but I'm not to bothered as I'll probably be in desktop mode anyway.

[Zulithe]

Crossing my fingers for a Win 8 RP release today so I can get started on my new install :)

[maeh2k]

A lot of people don't use PCs in a way that really requires the Desktop. For emails, browsing the web with few tabs and small games the Metro part of Win 8 is absolutely suitable. It might even be less intimidating than the Desktop.

[jagowar]

Apps for websites like Facebook, twitter, etc? No. Which are the examples above.

But those are not going to be the only types of apps in the store.... just going off the very early work of apps in the consumer preview there are many apps already in there (that were considered traditional pc applications) and the same ones you would go get before in win7 (the live essentials suite for example). Even chrome and firefox will be in the new store so you can imagine eventually most programs for win8 will be there too. That is the whole idea of the store is to give you one place to go for everything.

[Copernicus]

One of the first things I do when installing Windows 7 is get rid of Aero Glass (I highly recommend the iBaked theme). This might be old - it was posted yesterday - but I just stumbled onto this: http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...inesses-143238

That's awesome, props to the W8 team.

Not only users don't want apps, developers don't want them either! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...dows-apps.html

I mention this all the time, but Facebook doesn't want people using their platform through apps, they want straight web access. Google too, though they are caving to please all their fragmented customers.

Web Apps are the future, browsers just need to come up to snuff.

[killer rin]

I'm assuming they're waiting to see how the launch goes and how Windows 8 ends up being perceived by users before making a decision. Which sounds reasonable to me. There are a lot of unknowns at this point.

But at the same time, when you look at Vistas launch, it sold 400 something million copies (not sure on the actual number) within its first year. Its going to sell amazingly well anyways, and if they don't put Apps on the marketplace, that is what would give people the negative connotations that it "sucks" or "it can't do anything"

[AdrianWerner]

Apple has a near monopoly over the tablet side of the PC market, but a slim marketshare on desktops. These things don't go hand in hand. .

True, but let's not forget suceeding in tablets isn't the only goal here. Stopping PC users from switching to iOS and Android tablets is also very important and here Windows might in desktop will help them immensely to achieve that oal

[AdrianWerner]

Apps for websites like Facebook, twitter, etc? No. Which are the examples above.

I think we need to distinguish apps (dumbed down applications) from real applications, Windows users don't have much need for the former, while tablets aren't all that suited for the latter.

[DopeyFish]

We see this syndrome with every major Windows release. People hate change, and the UI is a massive change. I think though that people will get use to it, and after a while people will start to say Windows 8 is a great OS. Fact is, Windows 8 is Microsoft's best OS ever, in technical terms it looks to be a massive step forward and light years ahead of what Apple is doing with OS X (and I am typing this from a Mac). Kudos to them for being brave and innovating, which everyone criticises MS for not doing, I really hope it is a success.

Sorry... I've used every consumer version of windows throughout its development stages (and a few business ones in 3.11, NT 3.5, NT 4.0 and 2000)

Chicago, Memphis, Millennium, Whistler, blackcomb (blackcomb was supposed to be a different design, subscriptions and stuff... But they decided to opt out of it all)

I have used and adopted every windows operating system and used every one from first day onwards.

Even Windows Me had more improvements than windows 8 has (like system restore and upnp!)

I have no problem with change. Change isnt an issue for someone like me. But I do have problems with poor design. Poorly thought out, poorly implemented.

[Treefingers]

^ Exactly. I love Metro and I love that they're finally doing something new with Windows, but the execution so far is what kills it for me.

But at the same time, when you look at Vistas launch, it sold 400 something million copies (not sure on the actual number) within its first year. Its going to sell amazingly well anyways, and if they don't put Apps on the marketplace, that is what would give people the negative connotations that it "sucks" or "it can't do anything"

I agree, but I don't see the Flipboard team feeling pressured to make a Windows 8 app right now due to some need to have Windows 8 be a success. They don't know what percentage of their userbase would even want a Windows 8 app so to spend a large amount of time & money on something that uncertain doesn't sound smart to me. Especially since I don't see a Flipboard app being appealing on a desktop machine and who knows how well Windows 8 tablets will do.

[plagiarize]

Not only users don't want apps, developers don't want them either! http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...dows-apps.html

so over here in OT, 'no plans' and 'declined to comment' aren't seen as hilarious things developers say when they aren't ready to formally announce what they're doing?

[djSyndrome]

They won't. I read on Neowin that even the server version will boot to Metro UI first.

As long as it can be completely obscured or disabled (especially over RDP) then I don't mind, but this still seems like a strange move.

[lunarworks]

Sorry... I've used every consumer version of windows throughout its development stages (and a few business ones in 3.11, NT 3.5, NT 4.0 and 2000) Chicago, Memphis, Millennium, Whistler, blackcomb (blackcomb was supposed to be a different design, subscriptions and stuff... But they decided to opt out of it all) I have used and adopted every windows operating system and used every one from first day onwards. Even Windows Me had more improvements than windows 8 has (like system restore and upnp!) I have no problem with change. Change isnt an issue for someone like me. But I do have problems with poor design. Poorly thought out, poorly implemented.

This so much.

A friend of mine got his hands on Win95 when it was in beta, and I was impressed. I installed a Win98 beta when I eventually had my own home PC, and liked it right away. I was accepted as an official beta tester for Win XP, Vista, and 7, and installed those the day they were made available, using all as my primary OS with very few complaints.

Windows 8? I downloaded the consumer preview the moment it was made available, installed it on a spare computer at work, played with it for a few hours, and then pretty much gave up on it.

[claviertekky]

People were up in arms about the design principles in OS X when Apple was transitioning from OS 9.

I expect the same reaction for Windows 8 and beyond. Eventually, people will understand it as the OS matures.

[SRG01]

Are you ready for the Ultra Touch Books? http://www.winsupersite.com/article/...-launch-143265 Finally, the unicorn devices everyone is talking about!

Touchscreens don't belong in notebooks. Why? Because you have to take your hand away from the keyboard and touch the screen. Trackpads work well because you don't have to adjust your position to do something. You can force devices to converge but don't expect them to perform well, like Tim Cook once said.

Touchscreen or kb/m, not both.

[Jobiensis]

People were up in arms about the design principles in OS X when Apple was transitioning from OS 9. I expect the same reaction for Windows 8 and beyond. Eventually, people will understand it as the OS matures.

Eh, Nobody with any sense said that. The back end of OS 9 was horribly out dated and had many issues. The OS9->OSX transition was very similiar to 98/ME->WinXP.

Windows 8 only claim to fame is to try and keep Microsoft relevant by forcing their latest tablet/phone paradigm down everyone's throat.