[Chopper]

The black bars in the official thread are getting ridiculous, and those who have seen the film know that there is ALOT to discuss. Consider this a haven to discuss your theories without the need for spoiler tags.

So, why the fuck wasn't this film set on the same planet as Alien(s)? Eh?!

[Truant]

Yes it is

[Jason Raize '75 - '04]

Can someone explain to me the plot?

[Truant]

Can someone explain to me the plot?

People go to another planet. They find creators of humans, as well as a biological superweapon that gets one of them pregnant, and kills most of the other ones. Also, abortion/birth by robot.

[Chopper]

Yes it is

No it isn't. Aliens takes place on LV 426. Prometheus takes place on LV-223.

[Truant]

No it isn't. Aliens takes place on LV 426. Prometheus takes place on LV-223.

Yeah, just a history channel joke.

Obviously a different planet.

Scott talked alot about terraforming before the film came out, and the film touched on it during the early parts. However, they never really followed up on it. What was up with that?

[Wilbur]

Now all my black barred theories are rendered obsolete. Dammit

Someone mentions terraforming at one point don't they? Fifield?

[TUROK]

As I understood it (regarding the issue with the two planets): On planet B (the one from the original Alien) there was only one crashed ship. These were the same people onboard it (the creators, which inhabited the base on planet A). But these were also killed, by the creatures this time aswell. There was only one ship on planet B - so my guess is that they had left planet A, the base, to go to Earth with the weapons, to try to kill us. But something had back fired and they had to emergency land/crashed on planet B. Maybe this ship had left planet A before everyone there had died, and then were killed while on their way to Earth.

But on planet B, what impregnated that Space Jockey? On planet A, it was a space squid that came to be from black goo and a human. If a similar creature can come to be without needing humans, then why weren't there Xenos running around on LV-223 already?

From the other thread.

[Chopper]

But on planet B, what impregnated that Space Jockey? On planet A, it was a space squid that came to be from black goo and a human. If a similar creature can come to be without needing humans, then why weren't there Xenos running around on LV-223 already? From the other thread.

I'm glad you reposted that here. Good point. The answer is NOTHING. Again, unless they clear it up in a sequel.

[Wilbur]

But on planet B, what impregnated that Space Jockey? On planet A, it was a space squid that came to be from black goo and a human. If a similar creature can come to be without needing humans, then why weren't there Xenos running around on LV-223 already? From the other thread.

If the planet is terraforming (but not literally Earthy-like, rather adapting to suit the Aliens need), maybe it naturally evolved into some sort of being that orally impregnates the Engineers.

It's all fucking speculation and theory haha

[Mr. Sam]

It was a big bloke in a suit. That was disappointing. The rest I liked.

[Wilbur]

It was a big bloke in a suit. That was disappointing. The rest I liked.

I think it always had to be: at least the Engineers did. They had to resemble humans in some way so their DNA could match. If there's some higher power over the Engineers then there should be some sort of deviation in appearance. But I'm fine with how they appeared, it's their personalities that bothered me a bit.

Crackpot theory that I alluded to jokingly in other thread but would like to see come true if just because it's hilarious. Posted somewhere else on the interweb:

I can't believe no one has thought of this, I have checked numerous websites. Bearing in mind that massive abdominal surgery would result in serious tissue and vascular damage, Shaw's recovery is amazing but this is the future and you would have to suspend disbelief in such cases. Medical advances and all. My hypothesis is that Shaw pilots the ship as far as LV426 but succumbs to the internal bleeding she undoubtedly would have developed following the rushed procedure she undergoes. She did rip out the umbilical cord and there didn't seem to be a placenta attached! This is in itself an infection risk. She would have had to sit in the chair to pilot the ship, thus being engulfed by the jockey suit, although she would be too small for it (plot contrivance). She would also have to have been infected by something other than the squid she gave 'birth' to, although this is not a stretch of the imagination in this universe! Taking into account that a massive squid face hugger thing can impregnate a space jockey (not engineer but haphazard experimenter with life with little or no control seeing as they perished at the same hands) and lead to a precursor alien xenomorph as we know it, jumping many stages of evolution as we know it, this is not a stretch of the imagination. The 'alien; at the end of the film is clearly not a queen and we are not on LV426, what was the point in seeing this birth? Who is the space jockey in alien with the torn out chest? Shaw? What came out, an alien queen or did the egg preceed the chicken? Liked the movie as a sci fi epic, beautifully shot, but story lacked, especially in the alien universe/

[berg ark]

But on planet B, what impregnated that Space Jockey? On planet A, it was a space squid that came to be from black goo and a human. If a similar creature can come to be without needing humans, then why weren't there Xenos running around on LV-223 already? From the other thread.

Well as I understood it the space squid that turned into the alien of the original movie could be triggered by the creators. Obviously they were killed by something on planet A, but in the last scene, we also saw that the alien could be directly derived from the creator, as in it popped out of the creators body.

Now if this could happen on planet A, obviously the same could happen the the creators, or space jokeys, on the crashed space ship on planet B. From what I can understand, this is how the creators died on the ship, with their shattered ribcage in the original alien movie.

So in conclusion, we know that it is feasible that the aliens evolved from the space jokeys on this ship on planet B. This is when they laid their eggs on the crashed ship, which the crew on the original movie encounters. Maybe they couldn't feed off anything on planet B and simply died off, but the eggs remained until they came into combat. An evovled egg from the vaases on planet A, which they encounter in Prometheus, where they have stayed put for a long time until they experience contact.

[Erigu]

But on planet B, what impregnated that Space Jockey? On planet A, it was a space squid that came to be from black goo and a human. If a similar creature can come to be without needing humans, then why weren't there Xenos running around on LV-223 already?

Weren't there hints of ancient chestbursting incidents on LV-223?

It was a big bloke in a suit. That was disappointing.

Acting like Jason Voorhees, too.

[berg ark]

when i talk about the creators, i talk about the big white guys, maybe they were called engineers, but they're the same as the space jokey

[berg ark]

Weren't there hints of ancient chestbursting incidents on LV-223?

Exactly

[Erigu]

Crackpot theory that I alluded to jokingly in other thread but would like to see come true if just because it's hilarious. Posted somewhere else on the interweb:

She'd have to eat a lot of soup to fit in that huge Space Jockey suit... But I'm sure the black goo could take care of that. The black goo does a lot of stuff.

[TUROK]

Weren't there hints of ancient chestbursting incidents on LV-223?

Were there? I haven't seen the movie, but this would be a nice touch.

[Chopper]

Exactly

Ugh. That makes even less sense. So where the fuck are those Xenomorphs? Don't you need facehuggers to breed Xenomorphs?!

[Wilbur]

Weren't there hints of ancient chestbursting incidents on LV-223? Acting like Jason Voorhees, too.

Yeah I forgot about that, they found some with holes in their chests already? Sounds to me like Shaw wasn't the first to encounter a facehugger squid thing. Interesting though that the facehuggers in the eggs on LV-426 can also be born from a human's womb and then insertion through the mouth. If you're looking into the whole psychosexual thing, the cycle of oral - female 'natural' birth - oral - unnatural birth is pretty interesting.

Was disappointed with the Engineer's actions after David had just called it an advanced species but again, quite interesting (wish all the incredible ideas could have been translated as such) that what Shaw believed to be her creator and god was probably just a soldier in the grand scheme of things.

[Chopper]

Yeah I forgot about that, they found some with holes in their chests already? Sounds to me like Shaw wasn't the first to encounter a facehugger squid thing. Interesting though that the facehuggers in the eggs on LV-426 can also be born from a human's womb and then insertion through the mouth. If you're looking into the whole psychosexual thing, the cycle of oral - female 'natural' birth - oral - unnatural birth is pretty interesting.

But where would these other facehuggers come from? It's all just so messy.

[berg ark]

Ugh. That makes even less sense. So where the fuck are those Xenomorphs? Don't you need facehuggers to breed Xenomorphs?!

Well it looked like a Xenomorph evolved from the squid thing in the last scene. So they only needed to enter the body of the engineer, (the big white guy) to evolve into the xenomorph. Maybe their eggs also evovled into facehuggers from squids, so the advanced facehuggers or eggs got onto the ship which crashed on planet B (the one in the original Alien) and therfore the Space Jokey hade the chest injury.

[TUROK]

Ugh. That makes even less sense. So where the fuck are those Xenomorphs? Don't you need facehuggers to breed Xenomorphs?!

Well, if the space squid (which came from a human and black goo) created a Xeno, and Space Jockeys, which have the same DNA as humans, I guess Space Jockeys could have been infected with black goo to create a similar squid thing.

Lol, I wonder if Ridley Scott, Jon Spaihts, and Damon Lindelof went into this much detail when conceiving the movie.

[Wilbur]

But where would these other facehuggers come from? It's all just so messy.

Maybe the little wormy thing David shoved down Charlie got into an Engineer somewhere? But then that brings up the issue of the parasite killing Charlie but when transported from him to Shaw it leaves a foetus...

It's really just a lot of cool ideas with no coherency between them. I'm surprised by how much I liked it haha. A flawed masterpiece, somewhat.

[Mr. Sam]

My favourite creatures were definitely the serpents that did away with Milburn.

Why did Fifield turn into a werewolf again? Wait, no - how did a geologist, who mapped out the cave and had equipment in his suit that told him his exact co-ordinates, get lost in a circular cave?

[Wilbur]

Lol, I wonder if Ridley Scott, Jon Spaihts, and Damon Lindelof went into this much detail when conceiving the movie.

no fucking way

[berg ark]

I feel as though there are two separate issues here. The black goo and the squid/facehugger. I feel that these two are two different weapons and/or creatures, and might not be that connected.

By being infected by the black goo was very different from having the squid/facehugger enter your body.

From what I can grasp the black goo doesnt have any connection the the original Alien movie, only the squid/facehuggers which are derived from the squids/facehuggers in Prometheus. This is clear by showing the damage on the Space Jokey in the origninal Alien and the eggs which produeced similar xenomorphs which the squid/facehugger produced by entering the engineer in Prometheus.

[Chopper]

Well, if the space squid (which came from a human and black goo) created a Xeno, and Space Jockeys, which have the same DNA as humans, I guess Space Jockeys could have been infected with black goo to create a similar squid thing.

For that to work, a female Engineer would need to get fucked by an infected male Engineer. It's the only way. Unless they're asexual, and their buttlust transcends gender identities.

[Wilbur]

I feel as though there are two seperate issues here. The black goo and the squid/facehugger. I feel that these two are two different weapons and/or creatures, and might not be that connected. By being infected by the black goo was very different from having the squid/facehugger enter your body. From what I can grasp the black goo doesnt have any connection the the original Alien movie, only the squid/facehuggers which are derived from the squids/facehuggers in Prometheus. This is clear by showing the damage on the Space Jokey in the origninal Alien and the eggs which produeced similar xenomorphs which the squid/facehugger produced by entering the engineer in Prometheus.

Well I think the link from Prometheus to Alien can be very simple if you just dilute it: the base got contaminated, proto chest bursters everywhere. One ship managed to escape with a range of biological weapons, but the pilot Engineer was infected and crashed. There were many ships at that base, and the deaths all happened 2,000 years pervious. The ship in Alien could have come from that base as it tried to flee.

However what it doesn't explain is a) where the facehuggers come from without an egg to come out of, and b) why the black goo has a few different effects. Turns worms into eels, kills an Engineer at the start, what it does with the Engineer's head exploding, why it turns Fifield into a crazed mental.

I wonder if the facehugger in Alien if it hadn't impregnated Kane would have grown into the size of the one in Prometheus.

[TUROK]

But isn't Holloway infected by the black goo, which enables him to impregnate Shaw with the squid? As far as I understand it, the black goo is the catalyst that allows the Xenos to happen via some complicated shit.

Would be nice to know what happens when a Facehugger doesn't impregnate someone.

[Chopper]

But isn't Holloway infected by the black goo, which enables him to impregnate Shaw with the squid?

Exactly. The Engineers couldn't have just been infected in order for Xenomorphs to burst out of their chests. It doesn't work like that.

[Wilbur]

But isn't Holloway infected by the black goo, which enables him to impregnate Shaw with the squid?

Isn't it a tiny tiny piece of it? Completely different to what happens to Fifield and the Engineer.

Is it black goo or is it a little worm thing?

[Chopper]

Isn't it a tiny tiny piece of it? Completely different to what happens to Fifield and the Engineer. Is it black goo or is it a little worm thing?

Black goo that manifested itself as a little worm thing once inside its host.

[Wilbur]

Black goo that manifested itself as a little worm thing once inside its host.

And then to facehugger. Hmm.

[berg ark]

Well I think the link from Prometheus to Alien can be very simple if you just dilute it: the base got contaminated, proto chest bursters everywhere. One ship managed to escape with a range of biological weapons, but the pilot Engineer was infected and crashed. There were many ships at that base, and the deaths all happened 2,000 years pervious. The ship in Alien could have come from that base as it tried to flee. However what it doesn't explain is a) where the facehuggers come from without an egg to come out of, and b) why the black goo has a few different effects. Turns worms into eels, kills an Engineer at the start, what it does with the Engineer's head exploding, why it turns Fifield into a crazed mental. I wonder if the facehugger in Alien if it hadn't impregnated Kane would have grown into the size of the one in Prometheus.

a) it can come from the one of the weapons that the brought with them on the ship - as we see in the end scene

b) here i feel as though the black goo stuff and the squid are in now way connected. then i read TUROKs comment regarding the situation where Shaw was impregnated by the black goo which turned into a squid, which totally fucks that up. they are connected and i have no idea how.

[berg ark]

And then to facehugger. Hmm.

the facehuggers can be a more advanced form of the squid, as in if the xenomorph lay eggs and the facehuggers were the more advanced squids.

[Chopper]

And then to facehugger. Hmm.

No. The facehugger was the product of an infected human mating with another human. Their offspring. The goo was simply a catalyst.

[Erigu]

It's all just so messy.

Yes, basically. I'm sure there would be ways to rationalize some aspects of the whole thing, but I feel Prometheus mostly muddles the Alien world without bringing much of anything to the table to compensate. Not exactly worth it (except for the pretty pictures, I guess).

Also, I must say I'm not a huge fan of the "ancient aliens" angle... "Darwin can go fuck himself" and "yay, mankind has the same DNA as that superior god-like space-faring species! anthropocentrism feels so damn good!" aren't exactly what I'd expect in a "hard" science fiction story that pretends to deal with "big ideas".
I think the most interesting aspect would be David, the idea that he's disillusioned with his creators and looking for his grandfathers and so on... but even then, the treatment is still fairly shallow and sophomoric. Are we supposed to infer that David never got a better answer as to why mankind created him than the moronic "because we could" Holloway comes up with? Is it really a "big idea" to suggest that might be the reason the Engineers created us: "because they could"? Meh.

[Truant]

So the penis/snake worms that killed the biologist were just regular worms from the ground that got infected by the goo?

[SuperEpicMan]

I think it would have been better if there was more organisation of the biocannisters on the engineer ship. It seemed like each pot would have contained a recipe for a particular organism but they were just all mixed up, I would have thought it would be better if there was a scene similar to the one where david is watching the holograms but showing some sort of order in the canisters, such as an engineer seeing a read out of what a canister contains, they could have put in a nod to alien, if the engineer is cycling through information about the pots showing the various creatures, they could have had the xeno pop up.

[Chopper]

So the penis/snake worms that killed the biologist were just regular worms from the ground that got infected by the goo?

Yeah. I guess so. The fact that they attached themselves to the face/rammed themselves down the throat initially made me think they were OG facehuggers, but that is apparently not the case.

[MMaRsu]

Ahh sweet no black bars..

The reason that David infected the docter, I think he was just curious to see what exactly would happen if he combined that stuff from the alien pod with a human. There is no fear from him, he just wants to absorb information. He clearly feels like a much superior being to humans so he doesn't give a shit about killing one of them I suppose.

[Wilbur]

a) it can come from the one of the weapons that the brought with them on the ship - as we see in the end scene b) here i feel as though the black goo stuff and the squid are in now way connected. then i read TUROKs comment regarding the situation where Shaw was impregnated by the black goo which turned into a squid, which totally fucks that up. they are connected and i have no idea how.

What weapon?

No. The facehugger was the product of an infected human mating with another human. Their offspring. The goo was simply a catalyst.

Okay so:

• Black goo thing lies dormant in biological ampule, predecessor to organic eggs of Xenomorph
  
  Changes in atmosphere mean that black goo then reacts and perhaps 'terraforms' to not only the surroundings but the inhabitants of said surroundings, in past cases Engineers and now humans
  
  Small sample of black goo collected and received orally in host
  
  Goo - which I'd assume has now manifested into worm or facehugger - does two things; a) turn Holloway into zombified monster like Fifield before he is killed and b) somehow transport said facehugger into Shaw without taking on the same process as it did orally. Through intercourse it becomes more of a foetus
  
  Facehugger isn't born so doesn't kill Shaw but still exhibits nothing like premature birth, and eventually becomes larger facehugger
  
  Facehugger mixes its own DNA with humanoid figure to create hybrid, being Xenomorph, which again contrasting with oral impregnation is born of the chest.

and I still don't know how this translate to LV-426 without the exact same method happening between Engineers

[berg ark]

What weapon?

The squids in the vaases which they would use against the humans.

[Chopper]

and I still don't know how this translate to LV-426 without the exact same method happening between Engineers

I'm telling you, infected same-sex Engineer intercourse is the only answer. Somewhere on the abandoned craft in Alien is a Barry White CD.

Don't know where the "father" might be though.

The squids in the vaases which they would use against the humans.

Dude. The squids don't live in the vases. The goo does. The squids are just a prod...

...I'm repeating myself.

[Wilbur]

The squids in the vaases which they would use against the humans.

Ah yes

[Wilbur]

I'm telling you, infected same-sex Engineer intercourse is the only answer. Somewhere on the abandoned craft in Alien is a Barry White CD. Don't know where the "father" might be though.

The real biological weapon is Phil Collins

[PowderedToast]

what the FUCK HAS RIDLEY DONE

[Erigu]

The reason that David infected the docter, I think he was just curious to see what exactly would happen if he combined that stuff from the alien pod with a human. There is no fear from him, he just wants to absorb information. He clearly feels like a much superior being to humans so he doesn't give a shit about killing one of them I suppose.

Asimov must be rolling in his grave something fierce.
I mean... I could understand that Weyland-Yutani wouldn't mind about Ash sacrificing the rest of the Nostromo crew so they'd get their hands on a precious sample, but David is just a goddamn liability to the whole mission (and Weyland himself, since he's on board), there.
"Let's infect one of our experts with that mysterious black goo stuff, sit back and see what happens!"
... Really?

Not that the rest of the Prometheus crew acts professionally/cautiously either (who the hell selected them?), but those are human, at least. David could be programmed not to piss in people's drinks.

[berg ark]

Asimov must be rolling in his grave something fierce. I mean... I could understand that Weyland-Yutani wouldn't mind about Ash sacrificing the rest of the Nostromo crew so they'd get their hands on a precious sample, but David is just a goddamn liability to the whole mission (and Weyland himself, since he's on board), there. "Let's infect one of our experts with that mysterious black goo stuff, sit back and see what happens!" ... Really?

I feel as though he has a hidden agenda as in not to just assit Weyland but also explore himself - which could explain why he did the goo thing - it was for testing and finding out because he was interested in what would happen.