[Flying_Phoenix]

If only someone would make a vibrant 2d game nowdays: There is more variety in games now than ever before. There are dozens of quality 2d games with vibrant levels across a variety of styles and platforms.

Only two of those games had significant budgets and one of them is 3 years old...

Most unique games on console tend to be limited to cheap downloadable pick up and play games with shoe string budgets. Rayman is the exception (a hell of a one at that) and not the rule.

[Discotheque]

This is actually kind of a good thing for my wallet. Now I'm absolutely certain I can pass on RE6 and Tomb Raider without missing much.

Only games that had me excited at MS were Halo 4 and South Park RPG.

Gears of War: Judgement sounds nice because of the new MP mode.

[Kai Dracon]

I love you. What confuses me is that people miss all those repeated movie games, crappy titles like Home Alone and Ren and Stimpy, and the fact that games like Action 52 existed. Sure, this generation has some shitty things it in, but so did every generation that precedes this one.

Hindsight erases memory of all the bad games.

People don't remember how the first 3 years of the PS1 was awful, crammed with crude experimental 3D games when nobody understood how to make them. Only Metal Gear Solid and Gran Turismo 2 are remembered.

Hindsight also makes people live in the past. As was wisely observed upthread, old franchises merely get rebooted in the popular styles of the time.

This is the way it is for almost everything.

Ironically, only a handful of companies like Nintendo don't reboot their properties without a huge amount of consideration and care - they're careful enough that when they do make a major change, we usually get something like Metroid Prime. People complain about "Super Mario 34", but their games tend to preserve what made them appealing originally in the beginning, in terms of essential content and gameplay.

(So much so that when Nintendo does change something, you usually get a shitstorm of Nintendo fans rushing out into the street with torches and pitchforks.)

[MormaPope]

Personally, I think that makes you someone who just loves video games and being entertained on multiple levels. You're a daring, edgy person who braves the enjoyment of Strawberry ice cream on Tuesday and then Chocolate ice cream on Thursday. Fight the man, dawg.

This gave me a good laugh, and I also agree with the points in your post as well.

People expanding the limits of what they play really is a factor, I haven't owned anything to do with handheld games for a really long time, but if I got a DS or even a PSP it would open up the library of games to play by a huge amount.

There are a lot of things to be negative about this gen, surprisingly though the amount of games that give you what you pay for is staggering. Business practices and trying to get the most profit from each consumer is definitely the most sour thing this gen.

[Wildesy]

A classic NeoGAF post.

A classic Neogaf post is one lamenting the fact that every game is the same and that it all sucks. What's the claim based on? The 3 two minute trailers the poster just watched at a promotional event of course.

[Atomski]

Average modern game developer thinks we are dumb as hell and need to be hand held through every moment of a game.

Maybe this is the case though because those games sell great >_<

[Tain]

A classic Neogaf post is one lamenting the fact that every game is the same and that it all sucks. What's the claim based on? The 3 two minute trailers the poster just watched at a promotional event of course.

both "nostalgia is a hell of a drug" and what you mention are complete shit posts

[TheSpoiler]

A classic Neogaf post is one lamenting the fact that every game is the same and that it all sucks. What's the claim based on? The 3 two minute trailers the poster just watched at a promotional event of course.

E3 is somehow a reflection of the gaming industry. I don't know how people have gotten confused, since this convention has been, for years, not about video games but rather the hardware.

Here, let me jack you off, Shareholders. We ARE doing something, see the flashing videos?

Just wait. Tokyo Game Show will focus on some neat titles and we'll see the opposite.

[TheFightingFish]

Gaming is so good now. For the price of a single new SNES cart you could pick up Humble Indie Bundles 1-5 and have 50x the amount of beautiful, innovative, fun, and varied gaming. Don't tar the whole industry with the same AAA console game brush. Just look around a bit.

[Vinci]

I'll say this much: Earlier, I went by IGN because my connection at school wouldn't allow me to come here. [Odd, yes.] I was trying to watch MS's conference and it was running a video prior to the conference's start called, "Best Upcoming Games of 2012" or some such thing. And EVERY SINGLE game had guns and explosions in it. I mean, c'mon, how is that possible? How is it possible that the 'best' games of a year are so narrow in subject matter?

....



No, wait. There was a Madden game too. But regardless, that was a gross thing to watch.

[Paracelsus]

Gaming is so good now. For the price of a single new SNES cart you could pick up Humble Indie Bundles 1-5 and have 50x the amount of beautiful, innovative, fun, and varied gaming. Don't tar the whole industry with the same AAA console game brush. Just look around a bit.

Or maybe, just maybe, the fact itself the better games had to become indie in order to exist says a lot about the entire gaming landscape.

[outunderthestars]

Only two of those games had significant budgets and one of them is 3 years old... Most unique games on console tend to be limited to cheap downloadable pick up and play games with shoe string budgets. Rayman is the exception (a hell of a one at that) and not the rule.

What do you consider unique games? I have kind of quirky tastes in games. Hell I bought a 360 just to play Viva Pinata, a PS3 for Little Big Planet, and a DS just to play Animal Crossing. That said, I've had hundreds of hours of fun playing games on consoles this generation.

I think that people seem to fall into the mental trap of thinking that the AAA blockbuster games are the only ones being made anymore. Every platform has seen incredibly unique and compelling games this generation.

[AwRy108]

This thread needs more Outland:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVNonqkjncE

[alstein]

I would gladly ignore the carnival of stupid that most AAA games have become, if we still had mid-range games with tried and true, meaningful gameplay. But sadly the industry can't support that anymore. It's either AAA or indie. Anything else is relegated to shovel ware. Edit: And then there is PC.

Those folks are on the PC. Paradox (though their DLC is starting to get a bit Capcomish to me) and Stardock are still out there. Also fighting games are mid-range budgets.

Mid-range gaming is alive and well, just not on the consoles.

[Adam Prime]

You are drunk... it's 2012 and would you rather play Tomb Raider 2 PSX and Resident Evil PSX?

Have fun man, it's on PSN for $5.

[Kem0sabe]

AAA games are like movies these days... well, not like most movies... just like these

[Izick]

Maybe it's just a phase? edit: Eh, who am I kidding.

[Kai Dracon]

I'll say this much: Earlier, I went by IGN because my connection at school wouldn't allow me to come here. [Odd, yes.] I was trying to watch MS's conference and it was running a video prior to the conference's start called, "Best Upcoming Games of 2012" or some such thing. And EVERY SINGLE game had guns and explosions in it. I mean, c'mon, how is that possible? How is it possible that the 'best' games of a year are so narrow in subject matter? .... No, wait. There was a Madden game too. But regardless, that was a gross thing to watch.

This is more worth discussing than griping about what labels are on the games we like and don't like, or how many QTEs are involved.

I have to admit, I laughed out loud at the Tomb Raider footage where Laura Croft starts out by sniping and shanking and gutting guys.

It's really hard to deny that the "dudebro" meme is based on a lot of reality in the face of stuff like that.

[MehsterChief]

To everyone complaining about us old people ranting: yes, I'm well aware there are still good games being made, mostly on PC by indie developers. However, it is still tragic to see former franchises go downhill. And no, there is no equivalent to, e.g., the old splinter cell games. This genre is more or less dead atm. The same goes for compley 3D adventures like the first tomb raider. There was a time when AAA games were challenging, satisfying experiences. Not all of them, obviously, but more then today. Gaming's mainstream used to be a lot more diverse and that is something one can lament, thriving indie scene or not.

[TheFightingFish]

Or maybe, just maybe, the fact itself the better games had to become indie in order to exist says a lot about the entire gaming landscape.

Why would this bother me as a consumer comparing the games industry of today with the games industry of say the 16-bit era? The games that I love to play are still all totally there, only much cheaper. Sure I'd love to see an industry with more genre and style variation out of the biggest titles, that would be better in my book, but it still beats the heck out of the way that things used to be.

[evil solrac v3.0]

Don't bring the awesome 80s action movies into this shitparade.

I said the shitty ones, not the good ones. if it were imitating the good ones, we'd have more fun.

[TheExorzist]

Calm down. In the Demo after the show CD confirmed that Tomb Raider will be much more open later in the game.

People need to realize that developers only have a couple of minutes to showcase the game during a PC. You have to show scenes where something's going on.

[MrNyarlathotep]

It's an origin story. It's not like she backflipped out of her mom's vagina dual wielding pistols ya know..... Also, she killed a good dozen well armed mercenaries in five minutes. Not sure how that makes her a victim.

What (little) characterisation there was with 'old skool' Lara was as a bored thrill seeking rich girl, basically treasure hunting for shits and giggles.

Having to give her a traumatic origin story where - from all evidence - she is much more vulnerable (and getting environmental kills because she cant win in a firefight) might be more 'cinematic' and potentially interesting in terms of gameplay, but it still feels like a step back from the days when you could just have a bad ass action hero that happens to be a woman without having to give her a trial by fire origin to justify it.

I mean, if the original Tomb Raider had been more blatant in its Indian Jones inspiration and featured a dude in a hat as the main character, we wouldn't be seeing the reboot as Nathan Drakes crapper little brother.

[Kung Fu Grip]

I agree with you OP, but there was a similar thread like this where stump posted a massive list of unique non dudebro games. It suprised me because l never knew half those games existed.

Someone find that thread please. Or stump if you're reading this.

[Bombadil]

There needs to be a bigger ratio of gameplay to cutscenes, like 15 to 1.

Cutscenes include setpieces and QTE events as well.

[ja30278]

Interestingly, I had this same thought while trying to play Uncharted 3 over the weekend. The game was _obsessed_ with making sure I was never momentarily unsure of where to go, or what to do.

If I paused, even briefly, to pan the camera around and enjoy the environments, one of my sidekicks would pipe up with some helpful suggestion about what to do, or the game would prompt me to hit 'up' on the d-pad so that it could show me a clue about my next task.

Obviously this does prevent a lot of unnecessary frustration, but it also makes me feel as if I needn't have bothered playing at all.

[TedNindo]

What if you're not into quirky indy games and you don't enjoy the boring, cinematic, nerfed AAA games?

Sure there are still some Nintendo games, some RPG's and some other exceptions. But a lot of great series have even departed their genre and core gameplay mechanics in favor of a more generic cinematic experiences. I like having a large complex games with interesting mechanics that don't treat me like an idiot while still having cutting edge tech. It's these games that are dying. And no it's not just nostalgia.

[Vinci]

It's really hard to deny that the "dudebro" meme is based on a lot of reality in the face of stuff like that.

Honestly, it was a bit embarrassing. 'Cause I'm sitting there and watching it, classmates milling around. Normally I don't care if people see me looking at Guild Wars 2 stuff or even the random game site, watching a trailer for something, but... the sheer flood of insecure male byproduct just reeked from that video.

But yeah, that's what bothers me more than games becoming 'interactive films' and whatnot - that's only going to shift so far. We're never going to reach a point where all arcade games disappear from the world; people like them too much. But the fact that that damn video is how we represent ourselves... I don't know.

You know how people talk about outgrowing this, that, or gaming in general? Personally, I feel like gaming itself has regressed - at least in terms of how it presents itself and the subject matter it is predominantly focused upon.

Never have I seen something that made me really question what the hell this industry is doing. Does Nintendo have to release a cavalcade of games in order for one of the 'best upcoming games' to feature colors or a lack of gunplay and explosions?

[TheSpoiler]

What (little) characterisation there was with 'old skool' Lara was as a bored thrill seeking rich girl, basically treasure hunting for shits and giggles. Having to give her a traumatic origin story where - from all evidence - she is much more vulnerable (and getting environmental kills because she cant win in a firefight) might be more 'cinematic' and potentially interesting in terms of gameplay, but it still feels like a step back from the days when you could just have a bad ass action hero that happens to be a woman without having to give her a trial by fire origin to justify it. I mean, if the original Tomb Raider had been more blatant in its Indian Jones inspiration and featured a dude in a hat as the main character, we wouldn't be seeing the reboot as Nathan Drakes crapper little brother.

Characterization is a step forward. Hurr durr bad ass action hero didn't have any substance, all fluff, so that would make it more of an insult.

Now we have girls like Bayonetta, who ARE these action girls but still with depth. I'd take a girl who overcomes hard trials and changes over a girl who's rich and fluffy any day.

[outunderthestars]

What if you're not into quirky indy games and you don't enjoy the boring, cinematic, nerfed AAA games? Sure there are still some Nintendo games, some RPG's and some other exceptions. But a lot of great series have even departed their genre and core gameplay mechanics in favor of a more generic cinematic experiences. I like having a large complex games with interesting mechanics that don't treat me like an idiot while still having cutting edge tech. It's these games that are dying. And no it's not just nostalgia.

Can you give a few examples of games that you used to love? It's hard to discuss what you may enjoy with such vague references as to what you like in games.

Characterization is a step forward. Hurr durr bad ass action hero didn't have any substance, all fluff, so that would make it more of an insult. Now we have girls like Bayonetta, who ARE these action girls but still with depth. I'd take a girl who overcomes hard trials and changes over a girl who's rich and fluffy any day.

Agreed. Old Lara was nothing more than an action hero with absurdly large tits. I'd much rather have some emotional depth coupled with a bit more realism.

[TheSpoiler]

I would like to point out that I'm happy with the way Fighting Games have progressed.

Besides the dumb DLC practices and weirdly timed updates, progression is obvious, even at a base level.

Just look at the amount of balance games have from then and now. X Factor is nothing when compared to Art Of Fighting 3's comeback system.

[matics]

fitty

Haha, don't get me wrong.. I still have plenty of fun with games this gen.
I just avoid most games that rely heavily on QTE's.

[Kai Dracon]

To everyone complaining about us old people ranting: yes, I'm well aware there are still good games being made, mostly on PC by indie developers. However, it is still tragic to see former franchises go downhill. And no, there is no equivalent to, e.g., the old splinter cell games. This genre is more or less dead atm. The same goes for compley 3D adventures like the first tomb raider. There was a time when AAA games were challenging, satisfying experiences. Not all of them, obviously, but more then today. Gaming's mainstream used to be a lot more diverse and that is something one can lament, thriving indie scene or not.

Hey, I'm 38 and my first game console was the Atari 2600 VCS.

(I realize there's folks on here older than me even.)

I think what gets to people is when the complaining goes over the top into the "gaming is dead!" emotional range.

It IS an issue worth discussing, the point that the mainstream AAA games are increasingly narrowed into an incredibly thin slice. The irony of the situation though, is that despite that there's still more good games than a human being could possibly play. Regardless of where they're coming from.

I would like to point out that I'm happy with the way Fighting Games have progressed. Besides the dumb DLC practices and weirdly timed updates, progression is obvious, even at a base level. Just look at the amount of balance games have from then and now. X Factor is nothing when compared to Art Of Fighting 3's comeback system.

I'm... not sure it's kosher to mention how old 90's fighting games were so broken that X-Factor looks like Virtua Fighter in comparison.

Just because it's true, doesn't mean it's politically correct.

[MyEpitomeCliché]

Because the popular kids who made fun of you in school for playing Nintendo are now the core demographic.

[Kodiak]

Dude I know what you mean, every "core" game I've seen at E3 so far this year is this same formula:

+B movie overacting
+Hollywood Blockbuster action score
+Gameplay consisting of guns and hyperviolence
+SCI FI / Modern Military setting
+Boring, tired, and underwhelming
+A complete lack of interesting mechanics, decision making, or skill

Luckily though there are still good games being made. Firaxis XCOM looks groovy, The Witness looks dope, Fez was wonderful. Day Z is wonderful. It ain't all bad.

[MrNyarlathotep]

Characterization is a step forward. Hurr durr bad ass action hero didn't have any substance, all fluff, so that would make it more of an insult.

Well, the day they make a GoW reboot about Marcus Fenix bulking up as a way to escape his prison rapes and brutal beatings by the guards and other inmates to add a little vulnerability and characterisation to him is the day I stop suspecting a lot of mainstream videogames have some weird and slightly uncomfortable double standards going on.

Because nobody even considers male 'action heroes' as needing a brutal origin story to justify them outside of MY PARENTS WIFE IS DEEEEEEEEEAD

Now we have girls like Bayonetta, who ARE these action girls but still with depth. I'd take a girl who overcomes hard trials and changes over a girl who's rich and fluffy any day.

Okay, so there's bayonetta who is defined by her sexuality, we no longer have Lara Croft as rich thrill seeker, who else is there? Chell from Portal, I guess?

It's not like there's so many 'female action heroes' in gaming that one of the earliest needed taking down a peg, is there?

[onemic]

Its like the music industry now. Everything is about appealing to the lowest common denominator instead of making the best possible game you can. There are games that still do this, but now, like the music industry you generally have to look beyond the blockbusters and AAA's and instead look at the indie titles.







Or pc games

[Eggman]

We have very different tastes in movies (as well as games) then because i thought that even for movie standards it's pretty bad.Especially U3.The set pieces are extremelly linear and they even "rob" your avatar's already limited set of movement in order to tell their (mediocre at best) story. heavy focus on story cutscenes and drama,linear setpieces,QTEs,automatic magnetic platforming (just like Uncharted and the later Tomb Raider games including the reboot). I saw the very short Spike video.I wasn't impressed.

I can't comment on your U3 opinion.


Enslaved has a moderate amount of setpieces, but are suitably placed into the game and never feels forced.

[Misterinenja]

Gaming is so good now. For the price of a single new SNES cart you could pick up Humble Indie Bundles 1-5 and have 50x the amount of beautiful, innovative, fun, and varied gaming. Don't tar the whole industry with the same AAA console game brush. Just look around a bit.

You are absolutely right. I just think it's sad that E3 used to be fun and I actually got hyped for the games showed.

[djtiesto]

If only someone would make a vibrant 2d game nowdays: There is more variety in games now than ever before. There are dozens of quality 2d games with vibrant levels across a variety of styles and platforms.

I wasn't saying that there aren't any people out there making vibrant 2D games nowadays (since they certainly are, though I have yet to play Guacamelee, looks cool, or Sumiomi yet), just responding to that guy's assertion that old games are only good due to "nostalgia". Nor does the colorful 2D games coming out today have any relevance on whether or not Monster World IV is a good game (hint: it plays better than both Rayman Origins and Muramasa).

[CorvoSol]

This is what I get for not watching E3, huh? Everybody's whining about how easy games are today, and I don't know why. I played a bunch of hard and good games on my DS and PSP this gen. And console games this gen weren't that bad for me, either. They were less stellar than handhelds, though.

[TheSpoiler]

Okay, so there's bayonetta who is defined by her sexuality, we no longer have Lara Croft as rich thrill seeker, who else is there? Chell from Portal, I guess? It's not like there's so many 'female action heroes' in gaming that one of the earliest needed taking down a peg, is there?

I think you missed the point of Bayonetta. She isn't being sexual to grab YOUR attention, or anyone elses. She's doing it for herself. Because it's fun. As the Giant Bomb said (I think it was them) she'd probably be the hardest girl to get.

Many of the fighting game heroines have gotten waaaay better. Soul Cal has improved far more, as is the Dead Or Alive characters in the newest game coming out.

What about Alice? Or that girl from Beyond Good and Evil? We have plenty of strong ladies that can take the place of a piece of wood with some boobs attached.

[outunderthestars]

Its like the music industry now. Everything is about appealing to the lowest common denominator instead of making the best possible game you can. There are games that still do this, but now, like the music industry you generally have to look beyond the blockbusters and AAA's and instead look at the indie titles.

So are we just pretending that games like Galaxy 1/2, Fallout 3/NV, Skyrim, Red Dead Redemption, La Noire, Heavy Rain, The Ratchet & Clank Series, Rayman Origins, Bioshock, Bioshock infinite, Skyward Sword, Infamous, Alan Wake, Viva Pinata, Little Big Planet, etc exist?

There have been a great variety of non-indie games that have compelling content without being all dudebro and what not.

[Tutomos]

The bottom line is people just want to be entertained. More gameplay doesn't necessarily mean more entertainment to me or a lot of people.

[Tomat]

Do you all seriously think video games are dead/dying?

I really can't tell if you guys are joking or not.

[bone_and_sinew]

War never changes.

[Eusis]

To be honest, I'm actually starting to suspect we're peaking with the overly cinematic gameplay. Sales are notably declining, social's taking off... for better or worse I think we're gong to see that stuff dial back within the next few years. Hell, we may even be seeing the signs of that with the new Need for Speed, though QTEs in a racing game was always a horrific idea.

[TheExorzist]

Do you all seriously think video games are dead/dying? I really can't tell if you guys are joking or not.

The guys are serious but we all know they are wrong. Gaming industry has never been so good like today. Hell, the first Tomb Raider would have probably been like this if it wasn't for the hardware limitations at that time.

[Dog Problems]

It's good to be open-minded with gaming and have access to different platforms and enjoy all genres. If one area is letting you down there will be something elsewhere that makes you happy.

I couldn't be happier with how video games are now.

[Dan]

I remember the glory days before Mario could get suits that let him fly. Franchise has been shit ever since.