[Bamstrokher]

You're taking things too literally, which seems to be a huge problem when having discussions over the Internet. When people in the past said "of course Wii U won't run UE4" they mean Samaritan-type graphics, true "next-gen visuals"... that's implied in their statement. If the same person was asked "do you think the Wii U could run a very scaled down version of UE4?", they'd say yes... any sane person would. It's important to read into the context of these discussions instead of reading everything so literally.

This is backtracking and conveniently modifying what others have said. I am not pointing the finger at you as having said it, but based on what I remember that was not what the "sane" posters here on Neogaf were saying. much of the argument was along the lines of...

"LOL Wii U can't run unreal engine 4"

"even the next IPad can do that"

"No Unreal 4 no buy"

So here we are and those commenters have been proven wrong. And here we have guys posting like you, with this constant need to take something positive and retwist it into something negative that is starting to aggrevate.

[BlackJace]

Yo, that AstroNut325 dude is whack. That whole thread about Epic wanting to wait for a larger performance boost is worrisome, too.

Power power power. Yes it's important, but damn, it's not what defines a console and gaming experience...

[DynamicG]

You're taking things too literally, which seems to be a huge problem when having discussions over the Internet. When people in the past said "of course Wii U won't run UE4" they mean Samaritan-type graphics, true "next-gen visuals"... that's implied in their statement. If the same person was asked "do you think the Wii U could run a very scaled down version of UE4?", they'd say yes... any sane person would. It's important to read into the context of these discussions instead of reading everything so literally.

So like, people online don't actually mean what they write? Do you mean what you write? Is there some sort of Heavy rubric that I can use to interpret the true meaning of your text. The idea literally excites me, like we can find some sort of internet-speak Rosetta Stone.

Personally, I tend to mean what I say when I write it otherwise I wouldn't write it.

[Bamstrokher]

So like, people online don't actually mean what they write? Do you mean what you write?

Haha I wanted to post that. Good one!

[Donnie]

It's possible for UE3 to run on Wii if a thirdy party wants to port it over, but we believe UE2 is a better fit.

You're starting to make up imaginary quotes now, seek help.

[Bamstrokher]

Let's get someone who is a full member to start a new thread.

We will call it the "Rube Goldberg thread of not meaning what you really say in the first place, and then when it is proven wrong, conveniently backtracking and telling everyone to just use context instead of literally interpreting what was said, especially when it comes to the Wii U thread."

[Glorified G]

So like, people online don't actually mean what they write? Do you mean what you write? Is there some sort of Heavy rubric that I can use to interpret the true meaning of your text. The idea literally excites me, like we can find some sort of internet-speak Rosetta Stone.

It's using critical thinking skills.

[Donnie]

You're taking things too literally, which seems to be a huge problem when having discussions over the Internet. When people in the past said "of course Wii U won't run UE4" they mean Samaritan-type graphics, true "next-gen visuals"... that's implied in their statement. If the same person was asked "do you think the Wii U could run a very scaled down version of UE4?", they'd say yes... any sane person would. It's important to read into the context of these discussions instead of reading everything so literally.

Is that why people argued with me and others when we made the point that as an engine UE4 would be scalable and therefore would run on WiiU? Graphics fedelity doesn't come into it, Samaritan isn't even UE4..

Many people simply don't understand what an engine is.

[Bamstrokher]

It's using critical thinking skills.

I am doubled over laughing, this discussion is so priceless.

[lostinblue]

It's possible for UE3 to run on Wii if a thirdy party wants to port it over, but we believe UE2 is a better fit. You're starting to make up imaginary quotes now, seek help.

I think it's based on this:

Mark Rein: I know one of our licensee who's giving it a shot [UE3 Wii port]; it's their own port, in the same way Ubisoft brought Unreal Engine 2 to the Wii

Source: http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/f..._ut3_iv_p2.asp

Transcribing that would could come out the way he said it; that or other quote saying the same thing, I dunno.


Anyway, back then they had a point, even if I think they didn't deal with the situation well enough and that costed them potential money; now they apparently don't when themselves admit it can run on the platform just fine.

[Meelow]

About the Unreal Engine 4 comment I think it's just the way he said it which sounds weird, Unreal Engine 4 games can be supported on Wii U it's just Epic doesn't have any games right now in development for Wii U that uses Unreal Engine 4.

[Heavy]

It's using critical thinking skills.

Yeah, not a difficult concept. Context is important when reading anything.

[DynamicG]

Let's get someone who is a full member to start a new thread. We will call it the "Rube Goldberg thread of not meaning what you really say in the first place, and then when it is proven wrong, conveniently backtracking and telling everyone to just use context instead of literally interpreting what was said, especially when it comes to the Wii U thread."

Why go through all that trouble when the hits keep coming, like this one:

It's using critical thinking skills.

Yeah, not a difficult concept. Context is important when reading anything.

Oh I agree that the original text implied that the engine was highly scaleable, that was clearly written in the quote. I didn't have to "critical thinking skills" to see it's meaning. You are arguing that there is a hidden meaning in everything people write online and that people write words that they don't actually mean. Then you carry on to say that the problem people have discussing things online lies with the people interpreting the inaccurate information and NOT the ones who are writing knowingly inaccurate statements. Yet you wonder why people in this thread are wary of you?

[Bamstrokher]

So like, people online don't actually mean what they write? Do you mean what you write? Is there some sort of Heavy rubric that I can use to interpret the true meaning of your text. The idea literally excites me, like we can find some sort of internet-speak Rosetta Stone. Personally, I tend to mean what I say when I write it otherwise I wouldn't write it.

They are called...wait for it...The Glorified G Scrolls. Haha, see what I did there?

[Heavy]

You are arguing that there is a hidden meaning in everything people write online and that people write words that they don't actually mean.

No, I'm not.

[MadeInBeats]

Yeah, not a difficult concept. Context is important when reading anything.

Now I know you're taking the piss lol. Holy cow hahaha

[Donnie]

I think it's based on this: Source: http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/f..._ut3_iv_p2.asp Transcribing that would could come out the way he said it; that or other quote saying the same thing, I dunno. Anyway, back then they had a point, even if I think they didn't deal with the situation well enough and that costed them potential money; now they apparently don't when themselves admit it can run on the platform just fine.

Yeah I know, I actually commented on it earlier http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=7924

[Meelow]

This is backtracking and conveniently modifying what others have said. I am not pointing the finger at you as having said it, but based on what I remember that was not what the "sane" posters here on Neogaf were saying. much of the argument was along the lines of... "LOL Wii U can't run unreal engine 4" "even the next IPad can do that" "No Unreal 4 no buy" So here we are and those commenters have been proven wrong. And here we have guys posting like you, with this constant need to take something positive and retwist it into something negative that is starting to aggrevate.

People just like to complain about something, it will never stop...

[lostinblue]

About the Unreal Engine 4 comment I think it's just the way he said it which sounds weird, Unreal Engine 4 games can be supported on Wii U it's just Epic doesn't have any games right now in development for Wii U that uses Unreal Engine 4.

Then they don't have Unreal Engine 3 games being developed by themselves coming out for it too since they kinda dropped it internally already.

I think they meant exactly what they said.


Right now they're not planning on supporting it with UE4, in fact they're praying they don't have to and that next gen platforms from other competitors are a huge leap instead of what they are now.

It's really simple; don't forget Epic is pressuring Sony and Microsoft big time to up their console specs by a whole lot of course the Wii U spec, and the Nintendo philosophy is like kriptonite to them.


Of course, this isn't good for any manufacturer, hence their resistance (they're a business after all), it's not good for Microsoft because they ought to make money, it's not good for Sony because if Microsoft goes for something outrageous they're likely to follow whilst crying... and it's not good for Nintendo because if anything Epic's vision doesn't seem to favour them at all if they have it their way.

It's not good for the whole market at this point, sole focus on specs and making them available for middle-range priced platforms at that; just works for Epic because the biggest leap it is in tech the more current gen developers will have to invest in order to compete. They are running for that goal already while most developers are still too busy launching their games on current gen tech, and will be more than willing to sell their solutions when these developers finally finish current gen development and have to start over if the leap is too big.

[Heavy]

Now I know you're taking the piss lol. Holly cow hahaha

What?

[Bamstrokher]

I love this back and forth. It's like Pee-Wee and Francis in Pee-Wee's Big Adventure.

[Meelow]

Then they don't have Unreal Engine 3 games being developed by themselves coming out for it too. I think they meant exactly what they said. It's really simple; don't forget Epic is pressuring Sony and Microsoft big time to up their console specs by a whole lot.

No, if they are developing a Wii U game than it is using UE3, from what Epic's statements are and the rumors it seems like the PS4 and 720 are not even impressing Epic with they're specs, it's a fact that UE4 will be downscale on the PS4 and 720 as well.

And Epic said if a dev wants to use UE4 on Wii U than they can.

[blu]

I don't see that as particularly good news, honestly. 3rd parties are not going to go out of their way to adapt the engine to Wii U, and the constant referring to UE3 makes it pretty clear to me where Epic thinks Wii U belongs.

You'd be surprised how often 3rd parties have had to port Epic tech themselves.

[Bamstrokher]

People just like to complain about something, it will never stop...

I complain about false or misleading advertising, and jacked up prices at the movie theatre a lot, but that's about it.

[metalslimer]

Yeah I really wish there was a software thread.

[AzaK]

Same for me. Glad I had to come back home to get something. :)

It's not really good news to be honest. We all knew it would be UE4 capable, but to hear Epic aren't doing a Wii U target is pretty sad.

[Meelow]

I complain about false or misleading advertising, and jacked up prices at the movie theatre a lot, but that's about it.

That's understand complaining.

People that say "I won't buy the Wii U if it doesn't support UE4" and than gets a confirmation that it can support it and now they want to complain about something else.

[axisofweevils]

An interesting tweet from Two Tribes.

https://twitter.com/TwoTribesGames

RT @TwoTribesGames Think along: if we were to bring RUSH to Wii U, how would the controls work? So many options!

[DynamicG]

No, I'm not.

You're taking things too literally, which seems to be a huge problem when having discussions over the Internet. When people in the past said "of course Wii U won't run UE4" they mean Samaritan-type graphics, true "next-gen visuals"... that's implied in their statement. If the same person was asked "do you think the Wii U could run a very scaled down version of UE4?", they'd say yes... any sane person would. It's important to read into the context of these discussions instead of reading everything so literally.

You start of saying the problem with people discussing online is that they take things too literally. On a message board like this there is almost no context other than the words that are written down. Maybe a gif here or there, but that's about it. So by context I think you actually mean a subjective standard that you assume everyone shares.

You then say that when people said the WiiU wouldn't be able to run Unreal 4 that they really meant something other than "the WiiU wont' be able to run unreal 4" you then justify this appraisal with your own subjective standard of what "next gen visuals" would be. We don't truly know what "next gen visuals" are and won't for a while now. The only context in this statement would be my knowledge of your subjective standard. I quite frankly don't care enough about you to figure out what you think "next gen visuals" are. I won't know what "true next gen visuals" are until 3 years or so from now, when we are well into next gen.

You then imply the people who were taking your words at face value are insane because they didn't read into your subjective assessment of "next gen visuals." The original epic quote and news story had actual information provided by the company. The engine is meant to be highly scaled down where it needs to be. You don't need too much context there. Mark Reign tends to say what he means, you apparently do not.

Maybe I wasn't supposed to take that quote at face value?


This has been super off topic, although it seems that dealing with this kind of bull is actually pretty on-topic for this thread. I'm sorry for any derailing I have been involved in. Perhaps a software thread isn't a bad idea, although that may be too much WiiU in the community.

[chertipros]

Have sonic and sega all stars racing transformed or epic mickey 2 been announced for wii u yet? i thought they have but the newest trailers for both are missing the logo. any reason for this still?

[Silas Lang]

Yeah I really wish there was a software thread.

haha I feel ya. Hopefully the conversation will cycle back that way eventually.

[Glorified G]

Same for me. Glad I had to come back home to get something. :)

The only way you can view this as good news is if you thought the Wii U would not be capable of running UE4 under any capacity.

I don't think you were ever that pessimistic.

[Bamstrokher]

if anyone thinks this is bad, just don't go into that Ubisoft Zombie U thread.

They actually think that the game Octog123 was playing during the Nintendo direct is Zombi U. they are putting up scren shots from the game on the tv in the video and saying it is Zombi U, and then making fun of how terrible it looks.

I refrained from getting into it in there.

[blu]

An interesting tweet from Two Tribes. https://twitter.com/TwoTribesGames RT @TwoTribesGames Think along: if we were to bring RUSH to Wii U, how would the controls work? So many options!

Nice. One of my favorite wiiwares, which I'd love to play on the upad, while lying back on the couch. TT will need to add some extra puzzles, though.

[lostinblue]

No, if they are developing a Wii U game than it is using UE3, from what Epic's statements are and the rumors it seems like the PS4 and 720 are not even impressing Epic with they're specs, it's a fact that UE4 will be downscale on the PS4 and 720 as well. And Epic said if a dev wants to use UE4 on Wii U than they can.

Difference being PS4 and X720 will be supported by Epic and get licensed engine ports by them, they don't have to confirm it, that market it's the backbone of their core business and thus won't be ditched no matter what. PS4/X720 could be less powerful than Wii U and they'd get official support nonetheless which makes it all more disrespectful the whole "not sure about the wii u" thing, we get it they don't want to support it, but they really should considering they're a business.

Problem is the "you can but you're on own your own" treatment their tone implied when they're basically admitting it's perfectly doable but they won't have a thing to do with it if they can help it; but hey you can license their UE3 build for it!


And no, they're most certainly not developing a Wii U game based on UE3, all their upcoming projects will be UE4 because that's what they'll be trying to sell from now on.

You'd be surprised how often 3rd parties have had to port Epic tech themselves.

Too many times more often than they should.

[HylianTom]

People that say "I won't buy the Wii U if it doesn't support UE4" and than gets a confirmation that it can support it and now they want to complain about something else.

Hmm.. I wonder if they ever really intended to buy it in the first place? Lots of pseudo-concerned folks out there.

On a more hypish note, the more I think about the next Mario & Zelda games and what Nintendo will be capable of, the more excited I get. This is going to be a fun generation!

[Hoodbury]

People that say "I won't buy the Wii U if it doesn't support UE4" and than gets a confirmation that it can support it and now they want to complain about something else.

Insert GIF of Reggie with tagline "Gamers are so insatiable"

[DynamicG]

haha I feel ya. Hopefully the conversation will cycle back that way eventually.

There's just not enough news to meet with the interest some people have in the console. Many people here are really excited about the WiiU. Some are very positive about it and some just pop in to grind bad news in those folks faces.

Nintendo's slow drip of news and titles is not sufficient to keep up with the hype. We know almost nothing about other software that is coming out, so it's really hard to have a conversation that doesn't drift into pure speculation.

The hardware stuff has some basis in reality, so the arguments over minutia can commence. Maybe a WiiU break would be more appropriate, but I think we'll have at least 15 more Clock Cycle Wars before the console launches.

[Bamstrokher]

haha I feel ya. Hopefully the conversation will cycle back that way eventually.

I have made two posts about different gameplay types I wan't to see today, but they got lost in the UE4 Wii U shuffle.

[Heavy]

You start of saying the problem with people online is that they take things too literally. On a message board like this there is almost no context other than the words that are written down.

Context can be found in the subject of the thread and whatever sub-discussion might be going on in it. If the discussion is about Samaritan-type graphics (remember, Epic said UE4 would be an improvement on Samaritan) and someone makes a simple statement that says "The Wii U won't be able to run UE4", it's implied this person is referring to what most consider next-gen visuals, or close to them. That was my point. Now if you take that one line out of context and apply it to some future discussion like the one we're having today about Rein's comments, it looks silly.

You then say that when people said the WiiU wouldn't be able to run Unreal 4 that they really meant something other than "the WiiU wont' be able to run unreal 4" you then justify this appraisal with your own subjective standard of what "next gen visuals" would be.

I'm actually taking Epic's word for it, not my subjective opinion. They said UE4 would look even better than Samaritan and UE4 happens to be their next-gen engine, I believe.

[Silent_Ocarina]

Yeah, not a difficult concept. Context is important when reading anything.

Have you forgotten the Geoff Keighley/Epic thread?

Here's the important evidence.



I dug up some reaction posts for you.

Why is this surprising to anyone? Going by what we've seen/heard, WiiU's hardware is not too much above current gen's (which TBH, is 5-6 years old tech), why would anyone expect it to run an engine that's not even out yet.

Disappointing slightly, but I wasn't expecting it to run UE4. However, I kind of don't care since I'll probably be pretty okay with Nintendo's own content, but for multiplats this spells the same problems the Wii had.

People thought Wii U was powerful enough to run UE4? lol

I'm surprised people were expecting it to. The Wii U is going to be exactly like the Wii was in terms of software, except it will have a lot of ports from this gen.

Wait, what? Were people thinking a system that's basically a souped-up PS3/360 was going to run UE4? Can't wait for WiiU, don't get me wrong. I was never expecting it to be a next-gen leap, though. Just by far and away the definitive version of the current HD consoles.

People expected it to run UE4? haha

Posters in the Wii U speculation thread say its scalable and wii u can run it at low settings. I'll believe them over Mike Capps.

Who was expecting it to run on Wii U anyway? Since all indications point out that Wii U will be roughly as powerful as PS360 - maybe more, maybe less - UE4 won't obviously run on it.

This excludes a plethora of "Wii U is current generation/not next generation" and "This isn't surprising" posts.

Tell me. Where in any of these posts does it say that Wii U will be able to run some form of Unreal Engine 4? There are posts in that thread that say things like, "Maybe Unreal Engine 4 can be scaled." These posts do not do that.

Do you speak for all of these posters when you say they meant to say Wii U would be able to run a scaled-down version?

I'm not trying to draw attention to these specific posters; I'm just asserting the fact that, after that thread, many people did not think Wii U would be able to run Unreal Engine 4.

My apologies for derailing the thread, but I felt like I had to say it.

[Bamstrokher]

Hmm.. I wonder if they ever really intended to buy it in the first place? Lots of pseudo-concerned folks out there. On a more hypish note, the more I think about the next Mario & Zelda games and what Nintendo will be capable of, the more excited I get. This is going to be a fun generation!

Mmmmh I am so excited too. I am really excited about 2-4 players playing an adventure together like Zelda or Metroid. You could have one group using the tablet and one using the screen and clearing different areas of the same game. I would splooge if that scenario happened.

We should all exchange Wii U usernames or codes when it comes out.

[ViewtifulJC]

And we're back in there

[Aostia]

I was quiet sure that Wii U can handle the "low res version" of UE4. also if rumors were trying to tell us that it was less powerful and less smart than PS360

my main concern was, and still is, another: will some developers be interested in creating the Wii U version of its multiplatform UE4 engine based game?

that's the question, and I fear the answer (especially if Wii U will not receive neither PS360 multy support as it seems)

[Meelow]

Insert GIF of Reggie with tagline "Gamers are so insatiable"

Sounds like it lol.

[MDX]

Yeah I really wish there was a software thread.

This thread will be abandoned once Nintendo announces some big titles

[Silas Lang]

There's just not enough news to meet with the interest some people have in the console. Many people here are really excited about the WiiU. Some are very positive about it and some just pop in to grind bad news in those folks faces. Nintendo's slow drip of news and titles is not sufficient to keep up with the hype. We know almost nothing about other software that is coming out, so it's really hard to have a conversation that doesn't drift into pure speculation. The hardware stuff has some basis in reality, so the arguments over minutia can commence. Maybe a WiiU break would be more appropriate, but I think we'll have at least 15 more Clock Cycle Wars before the console launches.

Yeah the slow news drip definitely has dampened the hype. Didn't help that Nintendo only showed launch window stuff at e3 either. Some of the stuff we saw we saw at last years e3 as well. Isn't there an EA event soon where they are announcing more WiiU games or did I just imagine that?

I have made two posts about different gameplay types I wan't to see today, but they got lost in the UE4 Wii U shuffle.

Nope did not catch that! I think a lot has been lost in the hardware talk. Feel free to repeat!

[blu]

Have you forgotten the Geoff Keighley/Epic thread? Here's the important evidence. I dug up some reaction posts for you.

Van Owen delivers. As usual.

[Heavy]

*snip*

At the time of those posts (again, context), was it widely known that UE4 was so scalable that it could even run on mobile phones? Knowing that now, if you could go back in time and ask those very same people you just quoted if the Wii U would be able to run a scaled-down version of UE4, what do you suppose their response would be? That was my point, all about context. Taking past statements like those and using them as smoking guns for your argument without considering the context is disingenuous.

[StevieP]

Have you forgotten the Geoff Keighley/Epic thread? Here's the important evidence. I dug up some reaction posts for you. This excludes a plethora of "Wii U is current generation/not next generation" and "This isn't surprising" posts. Tell me. Where in any of these posts does it say that Wii U will be able to run some form of Unreal Engine 4? There are posts in that thread that say things like, "Maybe Unreal Engine 4 can be scaled." These posts do not do that. Do you speak for all of these posters when you say they meant to say Wii U would be able to run a scaled-down version? I'm not trying to draw attention to these specific posters; I'm just asserting the fact that, after that thread, many people did not think Wii U would be able to run Unreal Engine 4. My apologies for derailing the thread, but I felt like I had to say it.

My oh my. Well done.

At the time of those posts (again, context), was it widely known that UE4 was so scalable that it could even run on mobile phones? Knowing that now, if you could go back in time and ask those very same people you just quoted if the Wii U would be able to run a scaled-down version of UE4, what do you suppose their response would be? That was my point, all about context.

Are you going to try to deny the amount of backtracking made? People were telling folks in that thread that it's likely the engine was scalable. Those responses still ensued, and the folks making that point were ignored.