[bgassassin]

Thank you for the response! Makes sense to me! I guess with them dropping Broadway then for the Wii U, that that will help everyone else out significantly. (I hope!) Assuming that this is the CPU being used (hypothetically), does that change anything in regards to possible GPUs that may be used? Also, for those interested in the whole "pixel counting" thing: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...s-wiiu-e3-2012

To add to his posts, one of the questions I posed dealt with code dependent on Xenon's VMX units. It doesn't seem that this hypothetical CPU would have this. The target specs didn't mention this and it would seem like a bullet point Nintendo would have made known. So porting certain Xbox 360-based games could be a pain for devs and lead to "scaling back" games.

[schuelma]

Lastly, what the hell with EA and Activision? I expect BLOPS2 and 007 Legends from Activision (beyond Skylanders) and more formalized announcements about EA Sports games...

Yeah wasn't 007 Legends sem-confirmed or something?

[Linkhero1]

Yeah wasn't 007 Legends sem-confirmed or something?

I believe Shiggy made a topic about a 007 game for Wii U and then asked mods to delete it.

[burst]

Good to have our secluded thread back.

Annoyed that pikmin isn't available at launch. I guess P-100 will have to do. Need something to off set zombi U and batman.

[wsippel]

To add to his posts, one of the questions I posed dealt with code dependent on Xenon's VMX units. It doesn't seem that this hypothetical CPU would have this. The target specs didn't mention this and it would seem like a bullet point Nintendo would have made known. So porting certain Xbox 360-based games could be a pain for devs and lead to "scaling back" games.

To add to this: I looked around a bit, and the 476FP can handle two double precision floating point operations per core and cycle. A potential (and slightly optimistic) scenario - assuming my theory is correct and assuming Nintendo decided not to add VMX units - would be: four single precision ops per FPU and cycle, six FPUs, 2GHz = ~48GFLOPS. Xenon offers roughly three times the theoretical peak performance, but we all know that it never really reaches that. Predictable operations would be much, much faster on Xenon (let alone Cell) - my hypothetical Wii U CPU on the other hand would run circles around Xenon and Cell with random, unpredictable code, and it could offload predictable stuff to the DSP or the GPU. That does require a lot of work from the developers, though.

[guit3457]

LOL!

[Kokonoe]

Has this been posted? I personally hope we see more GamePad accessories like this, though a bit distracting, it can add cool customization. Here's hoping for a Link hat, or a Mario cap, etc.

That's actually a way to not deal with gloss. Although they need a better color than that.

[Penguin]

I know this isn't on many people's radar

But I just remember seeing the trailer for SiNG, and thinking its an awful idea.

And it dawned on me why, there's no reason for the people to dance. Like sure, its part of the sell, but they need to include dancing.

I mean Karaoke plus choreographed dancing, and I think its a million dollar idea.
Just singing.. meh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV93svATZgs

[Eradicate]

Thank you all for the explanations!

So, to simplify it all, when it comes to ports from the Xbox 360, they can be ported easily enough. However, they lack optimization to run more "natively" (like they would on the Xbox 360) right out of the gate and require some tinkering because of this missing VMX units. It is not so much a lack of power as the Wii U hardware doesn't allow ENTIRELY straight porting. Is this a fair assessment? I guess I find it interesting in how similar the CPUs are to each other, and yet quite different.

It would be great to even have one more spec sheet from a different version of the Wii U dev kit to compare what changes were made.

I know this isn't on many people's radar But I just remember seeing the trailer for SiNG, and thinking its an awful idea. And it dawned on me why, there's no reason for the people to dance. Like sure, its part of the sell, but they need to include dancing. I mean Karaoke plus choreographed dancing, and I think its a million dollar idea. Just singing.. meh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV93svATZgs

You know, I don't think it got a lot of attention, but Nintendo seems like they might push karaoke in a big way. Check this out:

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/ninten...20120604-01154

10,000 songs!!!

Also, it will function as an e-book reader. I can easily grasp that. But, they also claim it can function as a car navigation device. What in the world? How?! What else can this thing do? Will we FINALLY have a console that can make toast?!?

[Penguin]

You know, I don't think it got a lot of attention, but Nintendo seems like they might push karaoke in a big way. Check this out: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/ninten...20120604-01154 10,000 songs!!! Also, it will function as an e-book reader. I can easily grasp that. But, they also claim it can function as a car navigation device. What in the world? How?! What else can this thing do? Will we FINALLY have a console that can make toast?!?

I get that, but I still think the idea of someone singing while friends dance back-up

Has a lot more potential.

I assume they didn't want to step on Ubisoft's toes with Just Dance, but just think about it uSing (Should be the name, even though folks hate the U) and Just Dance 4 combined. Into the ultimate party game.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/07/ar...pagewanted=all

And after reading this, I have a better understanding of what Nintendo is trying to do with the console, but boy did they sure ruin the messaging at e3.

It seems like they want to be the resurgence of couch co-op/comp gaming.

And it makes sense, they've hinted at co-op in Pikmin and Project P-100. New Super Mario Bros and Rayman both feature 5 players co-op. ZombiU has at least 2 player competitive mode. SiNG/Wii Fit U look to get the entire audience in the living room involved. And NintendoLand seems to be about communication on the TV.

[Instro]

Here is a Moffitt interview where he explicitly states more titles are coming: Q: You have some new games for hard-core gamers but I didn't see "Call of Duty" or "Battlefield" for the Wii U. Can you get the core gamer if you don't have those titles on there? A: E3 for us is all about games. We're focusing on that first pillar of the three pillars of what E3 can offer. Over 20 games were unveiled. That's a pretty broad lineup. But I can assure you even more games will be coming during the launch period so if there's a favorite game that gamers like, I think there's a good chance it will be coming to the platform. .... I would expect that gamers will see an immense array of first- and third-party content at launch. Link Pretty clearly hinting at CoD IMO.

Well that's promising. New thread?

[wsippel]

Thank you all for the explanations! So, to simplify it all, when it comes to ports from the Xbox 360, they can be ported easily enough. However, they lack optimization to run more "natively" (like they would on the Xbox 360) right out of the gate and require some tinkering because of this missing VMX units. It is not so much a lack of power as the Wii U hardware doesn't allow ENTIRELY straight porting. Is this a fair assessment? I guess I find it interesting in how similar the CPUs are to each other, and yet quite different.

That would be my conclusion at this point. The system isn't necessarily very powerful, but extremely efficient, and different enough from PS3 and 360 to cause some headaches with ports. On the other hand, going by what Gearbox said and what Warner has shown, UE3 for example seems to be pretty well optimized for Wii U already.

[Alistair Roo]

Has this been posted? I personally hope we see more GamePad accessories like this, though a bit distracting, it can add cool customization. Here's hoping for a Link hat, or a Mario cap, etc.

that looks awesome
and people lol'd at me when I said there should be a silicone jacket to protect the GamePad
I'm more concerned about the screen tho.
I'll have to buy a screen protector for that thing.

Edit: looking at it closely, I think it might be uncomfortable to use on the D Pad and the A,B,Y,X area

[schuelma]

Well that's promising. New thread?

It was posted in a few places already. I don't think its needed.

[Instro]

It was posted in a few places already. I don't think its needed.

Ah I forgot we have a million WiiU threads right now lol.

[Eradicate]

I get that, but I still think the idea of someone singing while friends dance back-up Has a lot more potential. I assume they didn't want to step on Ubisoft's toes with Just Dance, but just think about it uSing (Should be the name, even though folks hate the U) and Just Dance 4 combined. Into the ultimate party game. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/07/ar...pagewanted=all And after reading this, I have a better understanding of what Nintendo is trying to do with the console, but boy did they sure ruin the messaging at e3. It seems like they want to be the resurgence of couch co-op/comp gaming. And it makes sense, they've hinted at co-op in Pikmin and Project P-100. New Super Mario Bros and Rayman both feature 5 players co-op. ZombiU has at least 2 player competitive mode. SiNG/Wii Fit U look to get the entire audience in the living room involved. And NintendoLand seems to be about communication on the TV.

I think that'd be a fun idea too. I guess the little 3D character on SiNG is supposed to give you the moves to dance with the song, but it's not required. I guess having the person with the Wii U tablet facing the people there is the factor here. It's kind of like being on stage, "OK, I'm doing this, you all do something too!" Grading backup dancers would be fun too though. Maybe the one with the tablet could give out a virtual award for best performer or something.

Related to the Wii U controller jacket, I think that's a pretty good idea to offer them for people who want to customize it!

Otherwise, even having UE3 optimized for Wii U is pretty great news since it is so prevalent. I think the engine still has some legs because I doubt everyone will just jump into UE4 the minute it comes out. Well, I'd like to doubt that anyways. I'd rather have a company make a game with an engine they know really well than a shoddy one with the latest thing.

[tanooki141]

I hope Moffit was referring to games like Borderlands 2.

I was surprised that it wasn't announced for the Wii U.

[jacksrb]

Here is a Moffitt interview where he explicitly states more titles are coming: Q: You have some new games for hard-core gamers but I didn't see "Call of Duty" or "Battlefield" for the Wii U. Can you get the core gamer if you don't have those titles on there? A: E3 for us is all about games. We're focusing on that first pillar of the three pillars of what E3 can offer. Over 20 games were unveiled. That's a pretty broad lineup. But I can assure you even more games will be coming during the launch period so if there's a favorite game that gamers like, I think there's a good chance it will be coming to the platform. .... I would expect that gamers will see an immense array of first- and third-party content at launch. Link Pretty clearly hinting at CoD IMO.

Just do not get this at all - why not include those things in the E3 announcements?

[Linkhero1]

Just do not get this at all - why not include those things in the E3 announcements?

I'm assuming that they weren't ready to show them. Could also be because they wanted to tweak their games accordingly with the new devkits, which they received just a a bit before E3.

[TheNatural]

I wonder if the tablet controllers will go on sale at launch or they are compatible with different systems.

It would be interesting if you're not really interested in tablet gaming to sell the tablet with your system, go buy a classic controller, and just play with that. And if NintendoLand is packed in, sell that (although as a pack in, not sure how much it would be worth, unless you sell to other regions.)

Ta-da, casual hate resolved lol.

[Spieler Eins]

Well that's promising. New thread?

I dunno man, isn't this the marketing guy? He has to say that. And the conference has proven how full of shit Nintendo was this past year.

[guit3457]

Just do not get this at all - why not include those things in the E3 announcements?

5 months until launch, they have time to announce a lot of things.

[Azure J]

Yeah. I'm sure it puts some of the past discussions in better perspective. Like my focus on the GPU being on a smaller process. So like most of us expected, as long as the GPU has the feature set (DX11-equivalent GPU), it can handle UE4 in some fashion. Considering when the GPU was finished, I would be more shocked that the GPU isn't capable than is.

Oh it does, that's why I'm more confident in my guesstimations over time coming closer to the truth than anything else. The confirmation of compute shaders in the (old) notes also made me particularly confident that Wii U sits in a very comfortable place tech wise.

The latter part of your response, although directed at someone else, really has been great to hear confirmed by Epic. No reason that UE4 can't hit every market and take advantage of what's offered while still being a showcase engine. I still want to see more CryEngine use though just so that the middleware market isn't chokeholded by Epic. I feel like they have too much sway for what they're doing sometimes. :P

Finally, black Wii U master race from (hopefully) day 1 here.

[jacksrb]

5 months until launch, they have time to announce a lot of things.

But isn't the Wii U's first impression the most important thing?

There are 4 important questions the Wii U had to answer, in my mind:
- What exclusive launch software will it have?
- Will the 3rd parties really be supportive [Madden and BLOPS2 vital to answer this]?
- How will the Wii U technology fit with current and future generations?
- Will the services and online be at close to parity with XBL?

They answered the first to me, but the second one is just an incomplete between Activision, EA, Campcom, Konami, and Square Enix not really showing everything.

[Mpl90]

But isn't the Wii U's first impression the most important thing? There are 4 important questions the Wii U had to answer, in my mind: - What exclusive launch software will it have? - Will the 3rd parties really be supportive [Madden and BLOPS2 vital to answer this]? - How will the Wii U technology fit with current and future generations? - Will the services and online be at close to parity with XBL? They answered the first to me, but the second one is just an incomplete between Activision, EA, Campcom, Konami, and Square Enix not really showing everything.

EA has other things to show, even Ubisoft itself ( BlackList), Activision too ( COD, 007).
Konami...eh, I fear for support from them, but Capcom should be not so unexpected. About Square...eastern side, there's already DQX. Let's see if there's something also from Eidos.

However, yeah, first impression count so much, look at how 3DS was ready to be bought at any price and obtained to sell in such a big way since launch without any countermeasure to...oh, wait.
Ok, but Vita had so many big impressions at E3 and...and...and.

First impressions are surely important, but it's what the people think at launch, with all the marketing, that is IMPORTANT.

[Penguin]

But isn't the Wii U's first impression the most important thing? There are 4 important questions the Wii U had to answer, in my mind: - What exclusive launch software will it have? - Will the 3rd parties really be supportive [Madden and BLOPS2 vital to answer this]? - How will the Wii U technology fit with current and future generations? - Will the services and online be at close to parity with XBL? They answered the first to me, but the second one is just an incomplete between Activision, EA, Campcom, Konami, and Square Enix not really showing everything.

Not necessarily.

Look at the Vita and 3DS, which both came out of their launch e3 smelling like roses, but momentum was unkind to them by the time they did eventually launch.

Nintendo has time to regain the momentum, but yes as of right now didn't make the best first and second impression to.. the GAF group.

[donny2112]

Probably won't be buying it at launch, due to commitment to try to only buy games @ $20 (or if there's a sale for games that almost never get real drops like Nintendo games) until my backlog is finished. Only got two Wii games in that backlog, but like 15 elsewhere still to go through. Looking forward to picking up AC3 next year for $20 on Wii U, though, as part of the normal AC $20 pricepoint during the year after launch pattern. That's how I got Brotherhood and Revelations, too. :P

Nothing that I have to play Day 1. If they were to announce a Wii U Fire Emblem for release, that may change, though. :lol

P.S. Glad we got a Speculation thread back!

[JoshuaJSlone]

A much better anti-aliasing example. Both are from official 720p shots. The left is from last year's NSMB Mii demo, the right is this year's NSMB U.

[gamergirly]

Ah I forgot we have a million WiiU threads right now lol.

A lot of useless wii u threads lol

[Mr. MondayNight]

Who's going to buy it on launch day?

If I have the money I am....

[McNum]

I can't justify this week with that, lightheartedly or no. This week was sheer Nintendo Stupidity™. Just a heads, up, might be seeing a more crabby Cabbie for the next week. I'm really stung.

I agree, my problem with Nintendo at E3 is that they were entirely too sane. BananaIwata not withstanding. They played it a little too safe.

[japtor]

So, to simplify it all, when it comes to ports from the Xbox 360, they can be ported easily enough. However, they lack optimization to run more "natively" (like they would on the Xbox 360) right out of the gate and require some tinkering because of this missing VMX units. It is not so much a lack of power as the Wii U hardware doesn't allow ENTIRELY straight porting. Is this a fair assessment? I guess I find it interesting in how similar the CPUs are to each other, and yet quite different.

Well there was never going to be straight porting cause the software side is different too. Like look at PCs these days, OS X, Windows, Linux, etc can all run on the exact same hardware but you can't just run one app on every platform without doing porting of some sort (barring really basic apps that you can just recompile...and WINE).

That would be my conclusion at this point. The system isn't necessarily very powerful, but extremely efficient, and different enough from PS3 and 360 to cause some headaches with ports. On the other hand, going by what Gearbox said and what Warner has shown, UE3 for example seems to be pretty well optimized for Wii U already.

...so we're sort of doomed until middleware engines get optimized.

A much better anti-aliasing example. Both are from official 720p shots. The left is from last year's NSMB Mii demo, the right is this year's NSMB U.

Also notice the shading effect on the right, subtle but nice looking when jumping on the stars.

[AzaK]

LOL!

After that press conference, every time I see those guys "joking" around I want to slap them. It's like they're having a joke at our expense.

[Spieler Eins]

After that press conference, every time I see those guys "joking" around I want to slap them. It's like they're having a joke at our expense.

Pretty much. Also, fuck that not-trademarked action figure or however it's called. Stop making jokes, start developing some goddamn games.

[snesfreak]

Pretty much. Also, fuck that not-trademarked action figure or however it's called. Stop making jokes, start developing some goddamn games.

...
Stop overreacting.

[EuroMIX]

I know this isn't on many people's radar But I just remember seeing the trailer for SiNG, and thinking its an awful idea. And it dawned on me why, there's no reason for the people to dance. Like sure, its part of the sell, but they need to include dancing. I mean Karaoke plus choreographed dancing, and I think its a million dollar idea. Just singing.. meh http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV93svATZgs

As a rhythm gamer all I can say is it feels like such a step back in many ways. I'd rather just have a new Guitar Hero game with refined vocals or, if they just want to focus on/buy into the dancing and singing craze, just kill two birds with one stone and published a "Dance Hero" game. I'll admit that I haven't played DJ Hero myself due to it not really appealing to me, but I don't know if FreeStyleGames could produce a solid vocals-only game. What was shown didn't really win me over.

[Linkhero1]

Just for your information ;)

Scribblenauts Unlimited is 1080 @ 60FPS w/FSAA... so chew on that DF!!! 2D FTW!

Source

[Terrell]

Just for your information ;) Source

I feel vindicated.

[Smashkirby]

Not necessarily. Look at the Vita and 3DS, which both came out of their launch e3 smelling like roses, but momentum was unkind to them by the time they did eventually launch. Nintendo has time to regain the momentum, but yes as of right now didn't make the best first and second impression to.. the GAF group.

Maybe only because we still haven't gotten animal crossing. Hell, Fire emblem was announced, made and released inbetween Animal Crossing 3DS!

Looking back, I hate stuff like that. Animal Crossing wasn't even at e3. I assume its going along great but its never going to have the hype it did when it was first shown.

You look at ZombiU's hype which is pretty decent, if ZombiU gets delayed from launch. I'm sure some of you might be happy with what you have already and skip it.

I can safely say that I only care about Nintendoland because its a new game. If it was shown last year, how many of you would really care? It'd just be the same boring concept.

[TheNatural]

Maybe only because we still haven't gotten animal crossing. Hell, Fire emblem was announced, made and released inbetween Animal Crossing 3DS! Looking back, I hate stuff like that. Animal Crossing wasn't even at e3. I assume its going along great but its never going to have the hype it did when it was first shown. You look at ZombiU's hype which is pretty decent, if ZombiU gets delayed from launch. I'm sure some of you might be happy with what you have already and skip it. I can safely say that I only care about Nintendoland because its a new game. If it was shown last year, how many of you would really care? It'd just be the same boring concept.

You could say the same about ZombiiU. Some people only care about something that has the tantalizing "exclusive" tag on it. If that games was announced for multiplatform, which it will probably end up on anyway, no one would have given a slight fuck about it.

Funny how dropping that exclusive tag on something changes the world for some.

[PhoenixPause]

I don't see casual audiences falling for the WiiU the same way they did the Wii. It was largely a fad that went bust after a few years. Casual gamers often don't buy multiple games, and we saw that over the course of the Wii's cycle where just a handful of those titles drove the console's success in later years. That market has moved on to Apple, I don't see them coming back.

The 360 is going to sell pretty damn well over the next two years before the NextBox and PS4 arrive. Kinect seems to be the next temporary casual thing, and of course the pricing will keep it competitive with the WiiU.

I really don't see the point in the WiiU's 2012 launch right now. Weak lineup mixed with 360/PS3 ports that will be months (or in Batman's case, a year) old by November. I just don't see this controller as being new enough to tempt casuals to jump in this time. Granted, the WiiU will have a successful launch; it'll likely be $350-400, will be effectively hyped, holiday spending, etc. After that? Eh

[Linkhero1]

I don't see casual audiences falling for the WiiU the same way they did the Wii. It was largely a fad that went bust after a few years. Casual gamers often don't buy multiple games, and we saw that over the course of the Wii's cycle where just a handful of those titles drove the console's success in later years. That market has moved on to Apple, I don't see them coming back. The 360 is going to sell pretty damn well over the next two years before the NextBox and PS4 arrive. Kinect seems to be the next temporary casual thing, and of course the pricing will keep it competitive with the WiiU. I really don't see the point in the WiiU's 2012 launch right now. Weak lineup mixed with 360/PS3 ports that will be months (or in Batman's case, a year) old by November. I just don't see this controller as being new enough to tempt casuals to jump in this time. Granted, the WiiU will have a successful launch; it'll likely be $350-400, will be effectively hyped, holiday spending, etc. After that? Eh

The problem is that Nintendo is relying heavily on Nintendoland to be the Wii U's "Wii Sport" game. I can already tell you that it won't be. Wii Sports was what attracted casuals and drove flocks of them to stores to purchase a Wii. Nintendoland doesn't seem like it will have that effect at all.

[Kingven]

Pikmin 3= 99$ ?
NSMBU also..



hope its not.....

I´ll still buy them... Lol...

[+Aliken+]

Well you have plenty of time to save up the money ;)

[AzaK]

The problem is that Nintendo is relying heavily on Nintendoland to be the Wii U's "Wii Sport" game. I can already tell you that it won't be. Wii Sports was what attracted casuals and drove flocks of them to stores to purchase a Wii. Nintendoland doesn't seem like it will have that effect at all.

The wii remote was easy to see a one to one relationship between real sports and wii sports. So non gamers could just jump in. The GamePad looks and feels Iike a controller so it's already more "gamey". I guess Nintendo are either leaving the super casual behind or believe that the last 6 years with Wii and iOS gaming has set people up to be gamers. I.e. they won't be as intimidated. Then they add in a touch screen that will allow them to browse, watch movies, share the tv etc and I think they are covering a lot of bases. The problem now is how to sell it to people. I think Nintendoland is what they will use to sell to casual gamers. Non gamers they will sell it on the Pad's functionality.

I would look out or multiple types of ads that's for sure.

[mediapulp_wes]

^^^ Supposed leaks of dev kits. What I find significant is that its from the same source that leaked those specs earlier in the week. So having shots of the Dev Kits certainly add validity to those specs. And those specs, which don't tell a whole lot about performance (at least to my ignorant self), line up with what people around here have been telling us about the machine.

They might be the dev kits, I've never seen one, but I know with 100% certainty that they're not that colour (even having never seen one).

[Van Owen]

Just for your information ;) Source

5th Cell does what Nintendon't.

[Bumhead]

The problem is that Nintendo is relying heavily on Nintendoland to be the Wii U's "Wii Sport" game. I can already tell you that it won't be. Wii Sports was what attracted casuals and drove flocks of them to stores to purchase a Wii. Nintendoland doesn't seem like it will have that effect at all.

How can you be so sure?

Were people expecting Wii Sports to be the run away success that it was? I mean don't get me wrong, it was the game we all played the most when it came out (and I was living in student accommodation with five others at the time), but were people looking at Wii Sports five months in advance and saying "Yeah, that's the killer app"?

Genuine question by the way as I can't remember the Wii's pre-launch. I recall Red Steel and the promise of 1:1 sword play being the biggest draw of the Wii before launch for me.

To be honest I'm not sure the Wii U needs one particular standout like it needed Wii Sports. Nintendo Land does a reasonable job but I think showing how Wii Fit U and Just Dance 4 use the GamePad would be just as strong this time around. I can't recall the Wii having anything like those two available for launch, or even anything as strong as the GamePad integration in ZombiU to appeal to the core.

[Kokonoe]

I want to see Mario gameplay with these visuals on the Wii U.

I know Galaxy looks similar to this in a way, just not as decent.

[Penguin]

The problem is that Nintendo is relying heavily on Nintendoland to be the Wii U's "Wii Sport" game. I can already tell you that it won't be. Wii Sports was what attracted casuals and drove flocks of them to stores to purchase a Wii. Nintendoland doesn't seem like it will have that effect at all.

I think NintendoLand has to be a pack in to draw the crowds like Wii Sports did.

Much like Wii Sports, it isn't the type of game that people get if they can't play it, and you're only going to play if the early adapters have access to it.

From impressions and videos, it does seem to offer some simple, and fun mini-games that allow people in the same room to communicate and have fun. And sure.. some folks may buy their own Wii U so they can be the person who gets the tablet controller.