[JGS]

If the purpose of a scholarship is to help a child pay for school, then they shouldn't get one if their parents are already planning to pay for their tuition. C'mon man.

That's not really the purpose of scholarships. Scholarships are rewards for academic achievement usually.

I plan on paying my kids college costs (Local college, no dorm lol), but I would be crazy not to take money offered to my smart/talented kids. Honestly, no one can really afford college unless they are wealthy or they saved for quite a while.

[Roger Danish]

Because people are now conditioned to reject the grouping of humans along racial lines. That's why it's totally different.

This line of thinking is, pardon my Finnish, a load of crap. Any attempt to equate the historical segregation of peoples on racial lines for the purpose of systematic discrimination against certain groups with the policies enacted in response to the very real socioeconomic trends resulting from such historical wrongs is absolutely ridiculous.

One such trend (as I posted previously): white students are disproportionately more likely to receive merit-based aid. Read the link I posted.

[PhoenixPause]

Having helped present awards and scholarships meant for black students before, you'd be surprised how many white students win them (and don't give them back). And why should they. If black students can't even seize the advantages they have, it should be their fault/problem

The last high school ceremony I went to gave out a similar MLK award to the top five students at a predominantly black school; I'd say it was about 70% black. All five awards went to white students and one of the presenters, an older retired black teacher, said the black students should be ashamed for not living up to the legacy etc etc. They laughed

[Count Dookkake]

Having helped present awards and scholarships meant for black students before, you'd be surprised how many white students win them (and don't give them back). And why should they. If black students can't even seize the advantages they have, it should be their fault/problem The last high school ceremony I went to gave out a similar MLK award to the top five students at a predominantly black school; I'd say it was about 70% black. All five awards went to white students and one of the presenters, an older retired black teacher, said the black students should be ashamed for not living up to the legacy etc etc. They laughed

That should have made the news.

[JGS]

That's my sad take from the story- that a white kid could get the scholarship to begin with since everyone knew the intent (including the kid) of the scholarship by their laughter and they still couldn't find a qualified person.

[distantmantra]

he is rich in creamy whiteness. Also his dad is a teacher in a public school - ergo bling.

Yep, all of us public school employees are rolling in the dough and bankrupting this prosperous bootstrapping nation of ours.

[IceCold]

are there scholarships for Italian Americans, Greek Americans, Irish Americans?

Sure there is.

[pigeon]

I would be more than fine with scholarships for women, Latinos, Native Americans, LGBT, and most groups. It's not about superiority against another group; it's strictly about assisting a group that needs the help. Period.

I totally agree, and I'm pretty confident that all of these scholarships exist.

In Hawaii we actually have a whole school that only people with Native Hawaiian ancestry can attend -- with an endowment that's bigger than most colleges. It never occurred to me that people would find that unfair. They used to have seven whole islands!

[PhoenixPause]

Yep, all of us public school employees are rolling in the dough and bankrupting this prosperous bootstrapping nation of ours.

You woke up one day and said "how can I finance the creation of my own full scale, fully finctional Gundam? I'll work at a public school!"

[jett]

Having helped present awards and scholarships meant for black students before, you'd be surprised how many white students win them (and don't give them back). And why should they. If black students can't even seize the advantages they have, it should be their fault/problem The last high school ceremony I went to gave out a similar MLK award to the top five students at a predominantly black school; I'd say it was about 70% black. All five awards went to white students and one of the presenters, an older retired black teacher, said the black students should be ashamed for not living up to the legacy etc etc. They laughed

I can agree with this.

[theignoramus]

Sure there is.

yeah, I looked it up and some of them require you to be Irish or Italian American. That's completely fair to my mind, (and apparently others agree) so why the fuck is there a stink when African Americans do it?

[distantmantra]

You woke up one day and said "how can I finance the creation of my own full scale, fully finctional Gundam? I'll work at a public school!"

Damn straight, son.

[TheSeks]

In the future, the application will be worded more clearly, she said.

So, instead of "blacks are encouraged to apply," it'll be "only blacks are encouraged to apply." Fabulous.

[Ragingbegal]

So kid wins scholarship honoring Martin Luther King Jr. based on the content of his character and not the color of his skin. Kid, for some ill-advised reason, decides to return scholarship. The organization, which would have properly allowed him to keep the scholarship, is now looking to change the requirements for their scholarship named after MLK so it is more reflective of the color of the candidates' skin and not the content of their character.

There's a terrible lesson in this.

[ViewtifulJC]

The 1980s man, the only way this movie could have got made

Cocaine is a HELL of a drug

[SonofdonCD]

Having helped present awards and scholarships meant for black students before, you'd be surprised how many white students win them (and don't give them back). And why should they. If black students can't even seize the advantages they have, it should be their fault/problem The last high school ceremony I went to gave out a similar MLK award to the top five students at a predominantly black school; I'd say it was about 70% black. All five awards went to white students and one of the presenters, an older retired black teacher, said the black students should be ashamed for not living up to the legacy etc etc. They laughed

This is painful to read, but I'm in full agreement.

It's amazing the fall the black community has taken since the Civil Rights Movement. Back then, betterment was everything. Now kids see education as selling out and acting white. Such an amazing fall.

[neojubei]

Having helped present awards and scholarships meant for black students before, you'd be surprised how many white students win them (and don't give them back). And why should they. If black students can't even seize the advantages they have, it should be their fault/problem The last high school ceremony I went to gave out a similar MLK award to the top five students at a predominantly black school; I'd say it was about 70% black. All five awards went to white students and one of the presenters, an older retired black teacher, said the black students should be ashamed for not living up to the legacy etc etc. They laughed

They laughed? what the heck.. If I have kids I am raising them in Japan.

[Bombadil]

Give it to a less deserving candidate!

I hope you didn't mean that the way it sounds.

[Dude Abides]

So kid wins scholarship honoring Martin Luther King Jr. based on the content of his character and not the color of his skin. Kid, for some ill-advised reason, decides to return scholarship. The organization, which would have properly allowed him to keep the scholarship, is now looking to change the requirements for their scholarship named after MLK so it is more reflective of the color of the candidates' skin and not the content of their character. There's a terrible lesson in this.

Yep. It's terrible that the only thing many people know about King is a single catchphrase.

[Koomaster]

Scholarships should be awarded to those who meet the academic requirements regardless of ethnicity. What's the reasoning behind offering black-only scholarships when you have under privileged non-black kids as well?

This isn't a gov't funded scholarship. It's a senior citizens group who raises $1k to give to a black student every year so they can go to college. They can decide who gets the money and based on whatever criteria they want.

I can create a scholarship that is meant only for skinny blonde females over 6ft if I wanted to. It's my money and I can decide who it goes to.

As for this kid, he shouldn't have applied to the scholarship to begin with. If he thought he'd be weeded out during an interview - then he was just wasting someone's time with his fraudulent application. I am guessing he really didn't care and was glad he won, but his parents made him give it back.

[PhoenixPause]

They laughed? what the heck.. If I have kids I am raising them in Japan.

All of them didn't laugh, but a large portion did. It just rubbed me the wrong way, to the point I wanted to just leave.

The school is in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Very well off area where there isn't a huge income difference between blacks and whites, yet there is still a large education performance gap between black and white kids. The situation has seen some national attention in the past; I dunno how to explain the situation/reason behind the gap either, having grown up around the area.

[Zoe]

They laughed? what the heck.. If I have kids I am raising them in Japan.

You may want to stick to international schools if that's the case...

[neojubei]

You may want to stick to international schools if that's the case...

I'd rather just move to Japan.

[theignoramus]

Yep. It's terrible that the only thing many people know about King is a single catchphrase.

I note that that particular MLK catchphrase is used incessantly by right wing talking heads attacking affirmative action programs.

[Zoe]

I'd rather just move to Japan.

Foreign/half kids tend to have it tough there. Naturally the darker your skin, the worse it is. That's why many go to international schools.

[NH Apache]

This isn't a gov't funded scholarship. It's a senior citizens group who raises $1k to give to a black student every year so they can go to college. They can decide who gets the money and based on whatever criteria they want. I can create a scholarship that is meant only for skinny blonde females over 6ft if I wanted to. It's my money and I can decide who it goes to. As for this kid, he shouldn't have applied to the scholarship to begin with. If he thought he'd be weeded out during an interview - then he was just wasting someone's time with his fraudulent application. I am guessing he really didn't care and was glad he won, but his parents made him give it back.

There was nothing fraudulent about his application.

[YoungHav]

Quotas are illegal.

but are still alive and well in conservative conversations on this topic, predictably.

[Dali]

Like I said, as a libertarian I DON'T have a personal objection. I was pointing out though that I think such scholarships (and I would include legacy admissions to colleges even though that's not a scholarship per se) are irrational because they give an advantage to a specific type of person in a group that is potentially more broadly needy. I think they're bad POLICY even though the policy is at a private level. I would say the same thing about a private golf club like at Augusta which doesn't allow women. Private groups can set their own policy, that doesn't mean they're sensible or for the public good.

I don't see how seeing a kinship in someone and hoping those like yourself succeed as irrational. If I were a little person is it irrational for me to fund a scholarship for those like me as Billy Barty did with his Little People of America Scholarship?

[Kosmo]

I hope you didn't mean that the way it sounds.

I meant it as in the student who won was considered most deserving, so whoever receives it will be less deserving in the minds of the panel who gave it out.

In your mind, that means black people are less deserving, which is not what I said, nor what I was implying.

[blame space]

college is bullshit

[JGS]

So, instead of "blacks are encouraged to apply," it'll be "only blacks are encouraged to apply." Fabulous.

"The Man trying to keep us down White Folk need not apply" would make it pretty crystal clear.

[Raistlin]

Did he apply for it, and if so why?

reading the OP helps

Where did it say the kid was rich?

Come on brah ... didn't you know? They're all rich.

[Pollux]

Foreign/half kids tend to have it tough there. Naturally the darker your skin, the worse it is. That's why many go to international schools.

Really? If its worse for kids with darker skin is it any better for white kids?

[Bombadil]

I meant it as in the student who won was considered most deserving, so whoever receives it will be less deserving in the minds of the panel who gave it out. In your mind, that means black people are less deserving, which is not what I said, nor what I was implying.

Okay, acceptable response. But I think when it comes to giving out scholarships there are plenty of equally deserving students and one of them is picked among those. In the perfect world, one would stand out the most and be the most deserving, but in reality, there are plenty of equally qualified students. So your initial statement of "give it to someone less deserving" is inaccurate, I think. They'll probably just give it to some other equally deserving person who was left out due to chance.

[Deified Data]

I wouldn't call returning the scholarship "right". Good for him if it makes him feel better, I guess. He obviously deserved it or he wouldn't have won.

I once won a scholarship of $500 meant for women entering a creative arts field. I'm a male librarian. I was upfront about that in my essay and I still won. No regret whatsoever.

[Karsticles]

A scholarship only for black students? Isn't that kind of weird in the first place?

Not in the USA.

[Shamrock7r]

Any attempt to equate the historical segregation of peoples on racial lines for the purpose of systematic discrimination against certain groups with the policies enacted in response to the very real socioeconomic trends resulting from such historical wrongs is absolutely ridiculous..

I'm not going to lie. This sentence hurt my brain.

[Deified Data]

I'm not going to lie. This sentence hurt my brain.

You're not alone - it's a poorly-worded statement.

[onemic]

yeah, I looked it up and some of them require you to be Irish or Italian American. That's completely fair to my mind, (and apparently others agree) so why the fuck is there a stink when African Americans do it?

Because racist.

[GungHo]

Are there any white only scholarships?

It's been tried a few times. Usually by folks who subsequently say "well, there's a black history month, why can't we have a white history month?"

The determination that he was "most deserving" was apparently based on faulty information/assumptions that he met the criteria they were searching for. Therefore, he was never the "most deserving" in the first place. Why is that concept so hard to grasp?

It's faulty assumptions in this case. He didn't lie on the application. They just didn't ask the right questions.

Like I said I'm not strictly objecting to the scholarship's existence, I'm just pointing out that an assumption that is accurate for a group of people (that blacks face more challenges than whites in society) does not necessarily hold at an individual level and that deserves recognition too.

I get what you're saying here. However, affirmative action isn't about increasing opportunity at the indivdual level. It's about increasing opportunity at the aggregate level to level the playing field to the point where aggregate opportunity differences due to racial prejudice are nullified and individual opportunities/merits can be put into play.

Whether or not that actually works and how much longer it's actually needed may be a thread in and of itself, but I can tell you anecdotally that the demographics of the white collar workforce (no pun intended) have changed in my lifetime.

No. I'm sure it can. It's not the main thing stopping people getting into college though*. Unless the selection criteria is racist and all the scholarships in the world wouldn't help in that case.

A couple of things here... at one time, race (and sex) were stopping people from getting into higher education. Either they'd be denied on their applications outright or they'd be shunted into segregated programs. While places like Howard University and Morehouse had been around for a century, historically black colleges and universities weren't all that well funded before 1964, and their programs suffered because of it, and you ended up with a perpetuating issue... you could go to HBCU and run a chance of still not being employable because the white universities had more prestige and better programs, or you could try to go to a white university and be treated like a pariah every time you tried to get help.

Additionally, a big part of these scholarships were for encouragement. They want to provide opportunities for people who have brilliant minds but might have otherwise been a janitor or fry cook because they didn't even know they could get the money together to go to a university, community college, or a technical school. Even before tuitions started to skyrocket, college and university tuitions were still a significant expense, both for direct payments and fees and for the general opportunity cost of not being in the full time workforce.

That's not really the purpose of scholarships. Scholarships are rewards for academic achievement usually.

Not always. Need-based scholarships exist for a reason. The GI Bill exists for a reason.

[AShep]

I guess my worry* would be that people are far likelier to jump to the assumption 'black people need them because they are less intelligent' than they are to assume that 'black people need them as they are generally poorer due to institutional and historic factors'. It's purely speculation on my part though, and in no way worthy of any serious inquiry.

It would be a travesty if people modified their otherwise charitable behaviour due to the way in which it may be perceived by the racist idiots who are too ignorant to scratch the surface of their assumptions.

I see your point however.

[AShep]

college is bullshit

Oh, it all suddenly makes sense.

[Loofy]

Heres one list I found. Nothing wrong with scholarships with ethnic criterias.

More Scholarship Directories Military Disabled Veterans Veterans Ethnicity Chinese Students Filipino Students German Students Irish Students Italian Students Jewish Students Korean Students Mexican Students Polish Students Puerto Rican Students Russian Students Honor National Honor Society (NHS) Members Salutatorians Valedictorians Race African American Students Asian or Pacific Islander Students Hispanic Students Unique Situation Adopted Students Bilingual Students Children of Single Parents Gay or Lesbian Students Orphan / Parentless Students Students From a Small Town Students who Received Foster Care School Year College Freshman College Juniors College Seniors College Sophomores First-Year Graduate Students High School Juniors High School Senior

Under irish heres a number of scholarships.

Largest Scholarships for Irish Students Name Amount Deadline Emerald Society Shannon McBride Police Academy Scholarship $500 Varies C. Jules and Martina K. Rominger Scholarship Varies Varies Schaner Family Endowed Scholarship Varies Varies Boland Family GU Scholarship Varies Varies Mary Cook Tierney and James Michael Tierney Endowed Scholarship Varies Varies John J. Riordan Scholarship Varies Varies James M. Brett Scholarship Varies Varies Elizabeth Reed Annis Endowed Scholarship Varies Varies Joseph T.P. Sullivan Scholarship Varies Varies New Scholarships for Irish Students Name Amount Deadline John J. Riordan Scholarship Varies Varies Mary Cook Tierney and James Michael Tierney Endowed Scholarship Varies Varies Schaner Family Endowed Scholarship Varies Varies Emerald Society Shannon McBride Police Academy Scholarship $500 Varies Elizabeth Reed Annis Endowed Scholarship Varies Varies Joseph T.P. Sullivan Scholarship Varies Varies C. Jules and Martina K. Rominger Scholarship Varies Varies Boland Family GU Scholarship Varies Varies James M. Brett Scholarship Varies Varies

http://scholarships.fastweb.com/e-irish-students

[theignoramus]

Heres one list I found. Nothing wrong with scholarships with ethnic criterias. Under irish heres a number of scholarships. http://scholarships.fastweb.com/e-irish-students

yeah, that's what I was getting at. yet there's no outrage for this. and rightly so. The Irish/Italian/Greek/Jewish and Korean Americans should be giving grant money to people from their own community, that's what communities do.

[neojubei]

yeah, I looked it up and some of them require you to be Irish or Italian American. That's completely fair to my mind, (and apparently others agree) so why the fuck is there a stink when African Americans do it?

yup

[Stet]

#1) Scholarships are awarded based on the discretion of the people awarding them. It's their money, they can give it however they wish.

#2) He returned the money without any pressure from the organization. Saying he should have kept it is disingenuous because it's entirely his choice whether or not he keeps the money.

#3) Calling the next person in line "less qualified" is also disingenuous. These scholarships aren't one extremely smart person and seven thousand dumb people applying. They're people who probably have identical GPAs and similar goals. The decision often comes down to something unmeasurable. They can only give it to one person. What happens if twins with the same GPA, same extra-curriculars and same goals apply and one wins? Is the other somehow "less qualified"?

[tim.mbp]

I had such a big crush on Rae Dawn Chong back in he 80s.

[Devolution]

#1) Scholarships are awarded based on the discretion of the people awarding them. It's their money, they can give it however they wish. #2) He returned the money without any pressure from the organization. Saying he should have kept it is disingenuous because it's entirely his choice whether or not he keeps the money. #3) Calling the next person in line "less qualified" is also disingenuous. These scholarships aren't one extremely smart person and seven thousand dumb people applying. They're people who probably have identical GPAs and similar goals. The decision often comes down to something unmeasurable. They can only give it to one person. What happens if twins with the same GPA, same extra-curriculars and same goals apply and one wins? Is the other somehow "less qualified"?

This. Plus some are also field based and trying to get more minorities/women into a particular job where they are less represented.

[MIMIC]

The scholarship didn't exclude him but I can understand why he gave it back. I would have been fine with either outcome: keeping it or returning it.

[Roger Danish]

I'm not going to lie. This sentence hurt my brain.

I'm sorry. :(