[Aaron]

How are they getting direct cap stuff like the Soul Sacrifice feeds? There has to be some video out app or plugin for dev units.

The game is probably running on the PC when the devs take that footage.

[LiquidMetal14]

I'm saying that you need to produce a technical reason why a Video-out solution would cause piracy.

Honestly, I don't know why it just couldn't be an app that uses the USB out and the content manager in a special way but I really don't know. I just think they limited retail units due to their past dealings with a more open platform in the PSP. It's definitely speculation but it's not out of bounds.

Now I really go.

[LuchaShaq]

My words were in English right? I don't take well to condescending remarks. I say what I say. Come talk to me in Steam chat. I don't take kindly to it there. Luckily no one goes all forum badass there since we are talking to each other. That's what I think. I can find an app to mix the words up for me though. Then it would really not make sense. Back to some Serious Sam for me. How hard is to not understand my point of a predecesor being hacked and it's successor being more closed due to that? Mind you, this is all an opinion. Don't make me write it in crayon for you. Come to Steam chat and I will explain it in voice if you like. For now, I'm tired.

You realize video output and openings for piracy are in no way connected right?

That's like saying the super market is giving you access to the safe because they have ham on sale.

Complete nonsense.

[SalsaShark]

Honestly, I don't know why it just couldn't be an app that uses the USB out and the content manager in a special way but I really don't know. I just think they limited retail units due to their past dealings with a more open platform in the PSP. It's definitely speculation but it's not out of bounds. Now I really go.

I see what you say but I also see what ShockingAlberto says in that you're not providing any connection between piracy and video output.

And that's cause there isn't one.

[wsippel]

How hard is to not understand my point of a predecesor being hacked and it's successor being more closed due to that? Mind you, this is all an opinion. Don't make me write it in crayon for you. Come to Steam chat and I will explain it in voice if you like. For now, I'm tired.

That would be like "pirating" PS3 games by connecting the PS3 video out to a VCR. Capture equipment only needs to grab the LVD video signal driving the screen. That shit is so trivial that the modding community even managed to solder their own solutions for the DS and 3DS. That part of the system has nothing to do with piracy and won't ever help pirates in any way.

[Megasoum]

I remember Jeff saying on the bombcast or somewhere else at some point that he thinks the reason (or one of the reasons anyway) that Sony doesn't sell capture kits to reviewers is because they don't want people to see how crapy the games look if you blow them up to a TV size image and resolution.

[SalsaShark]

I remember Jeff saying on the bombcast or somewhere else at some point that he thinks the reason (or one of the reasons anyway) that Sony doesn't sell capture kits to reviewers is because they don't want people to see how crapy the games look if you blow them up to a TV size image and resolution.

cant remember, let me know if you have a link to that

[XANDER CAGE]

There was an actual, official Mortal Kombat Vita trailer that used offscreen footage for all its gameplay. Ah, here we go. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCavma-emjk

Jeeeeesus.

[kassatsu]

There are Test Kit Vitas with HDMI out guys. Only publishers and devs have them atm.

When I played Ragnarok Odyssey at E3 with XSEED it was on one.

[Megasoum]

cant remember, let me know if you have a link to that

It was a while ago and I'm not even sure if it was during the podcast or during one of the live stream.

[RSLAEV]

lolollo oh noes they're gonna hack our handheld via the mini DVI/HDMI port!


Close...


off...



EVERYTHING!

[SalsaShark]

There are Test Kit Vitas with HDMI out guys. Only publishers and devs have them atm. When I played Ragnarok Odyssey at E3 with XSEED it was on one.

well that proves my point: they're being real silly about this

[Megasoum]

There are Test Kit Vitas with HDMI out guys. Only publishers and devs have them atm. When I played Ragnarok Odyssey at E3 with XSEED it was on one.

Of course they do... Heck you can even capture screenshots and videos directly on your pc when working on 360 and PS3 test kits. Same thing with 3DS... I do it everyday. It's just the vita that, for some reason, Sony never sold to journalists.

[UberTag]

I wonder if this lack Vita stuff lately means that they're super focused on PS4 right now. I'm sure in two - three years we'll hear all about the crazy pressure within Sony right now and how Vita suffered for PS4 development or something.

We thought the same thing about Nintendo and the absence of Wii U announcements prior to E3.
You saw how that worked out.

[Criminal Upper]

Yeah, I was looking in to direct feed solutions earlier today and still haven't seen any. I am guessing Sony feels that, for the games they feel matter, PS3 footage will work fine.

First post nails it everytime.

[Izayoi]

Did the original renders of the console have some sort of video out? I can't remember. Really is super shitty that there isn't one, though... Sucks that they removed features moving from PSP to Vita.

[CamHostage]

Yup they had about 3 of those during launch week with the first ever titles. Probably lasted about a couple weeks til they got proper gear and I think they were reviewing out of an imported one? The Vita was launched december 2011 in Japan and February in the west, middle of June now, this is just weird.

Don't expect your math to work out, unfortunately. With PSP, press never got debugs. Weren't allowed, developers only. Journalists just managed: they set up stable rigs to film off-screen, or they used that weird video hack mod, or called on occasional favors from local developers who had one, or they just suffered and waited for PSP-2000's video-out (which luckily didn't take that long; Vita might be a different story, especially since it didn't ship with video-out for some reason.)

[jimmythepage]

They could go the square-enix way, like adding that crystal like background and leave the footage at dimension.
While I frankly don't like it, I'm sure they could come up with something better.

[LiK]

yep OP, not even the major review sites got the dev kits with video out. kinda embarrassing considering Nintendo has supplied most review sites with a 3DS review unit with video out just fine. it's like Sony made only 10 of them or something.

[Snapshot King]

My words were in English right? I don't take well to condescending remarks. I say what I say. Come talk to me in Steam chat. I don't take kindly to it there. Luckily no one goes all forum badass there since we are talking to each other. That's what I think. I can find an app to mix the words up for me though. Then it would really not make sense. Back to some Serious Sam for me. How hard is to not understand my point of a predecesor being hacked and it's successor being more closed due to that? Mind you, this is all an opinion. Don't make me write it in crayon for you. Come to Steam chat and I will explain it in voice if you like. For now, I'm tired.

Be careful who puts headphones in your iphone man. They might hack it using the audio out! Those dastardly hackers, using an audio output signal to somehow reverse it and break open your firmware! Those crafty jailbreakers!

[Dash Kappei]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX7tKbY_09o ???

Wow.
This game looks amazing.

[funkystudent]

It would probably be a good idea to give the big sites (ign, gametrailers, gamespot) something to capture footage.


If they are afraid of dev hardware getting out there they should just give them to select sites and then take them back after the vita 2000 with video out is released

[Poyunch]

I don't blame them filming a screen ALWAYS looks like crap. As someone who basically only goes to GB and gaf that decision alone keeps me (willingly) less informed about vita games and even less likely to ever get one. (Was going to get one at launch but the frame rate issues/loading time issues combined with dick move storage wise made me cancel and I'm glad I did.) Also developers have this hardware Sony just doesn't make it available to press even to purchase.

Oh no doubt this is a Sony issue. If Sony wants the media to cover their games, they should make it easy to do so.

Off-screen footage is just distracting. It feels cheap.

[SRidge52]

I've always wondered how the hell do review sites get the "tv out" capabilities for handhelds that don't already offer it with a separate attachment/cable? Such as the DS and Vita and, well, pretty much all handhelds. I'm aware they get special equipment from the companies, but what kind of equipment is it and how exactly DO they get it? Does Nintendo/Sony automatically send it to the bigger review sites and the smaller ones have to put in an order or are they just SOL?

I've always wondered how the process goes.

[Aaron]

I've always wondered how the hell do review sites get the "tv out" capabilities for handhelds that don't already offer it with a separate attachment/cable? Such as the DS and Vita and, well, pretty much all handhelds. I'm aware they get special equipment from the companies, but what kind of equipment is it and how exactly DO they get it? Does Nintendo/Sony automatically send it to the bigger review sites and the smaller ones have to put in an order or are they just SOL? I've always wondered how the process goes.

Nintendo provides the goods for review sites. Sony doesn't seem to give a shit. Giant Bomb said they needed to request a DS review kit and took a while to get one, but with that relationship established Nintendo sent them a 3DS kit not long after the system launched.

[Massa]

The guys at Giant Bomb said they wouldn't do a Quick Look because of lack of capture equipment.

Didn't GiantBomb set up an elaborate green screen so they could do funny Kinect quick looks?

Yeah, if they wanted to produce Vita content they would. This is just a pathetic excuse.

[Luigiv]

For what it's worth, early 3DS self-captured videos were all cam-footage too. Took Nintendo a few months to get capture units into the hands of the media. I imagine it's a similar situation with Sony. I mean they're not just going to leave things like this forever... are they?

[Varth]

Don't expect your math to work out, unfortunately. With PSP, press never got debugs. Weren't allowed, developers only. Journalists just managed: they set up stable rigs to film off-screen, or they used that weird video hack mod, or called on occasional favors from local developers who had one, or they just suffered and waited for PSP-2000's video-out (which luckily didn't take that long; Vita might be a different story, especially since it didn't ship with video-out for some reason.)

Uh? Not true at all. We still have a PSP debug unit, and didn't really have to push THAT hard to get one. For Vita, debug units with HDMI out were handed to press in the pre launch day, then Sony asked them back and sent everyone fully equipped retail units.

Nintendo provides the goods for review sites.

Eh. I guess that everyone who had something to do with Nintendo would beg to differ. Wii debug was difficult to get a hold on back in the days, but DS/3DS? Good luck.

[Bubble Metropolis]

Didn't GiantBomb set up an elaborate green screen so they could do funny Kinect quick looks? Yeah, if they wanted to produce Vita content they would. This is just a pathetic excuse.

I don't see how these two things are related. Kinect quick looks are nothing but enhanced by the elaborate green screen set-up, while Vita quick looks would obviously suffer and not be representative of the actual product with an off-screen feed.

[SalsaShark]

Didn't GiantBomb set up an elaborate green screen so they could do funny Kinect quick looks? Yeah, if they wanted to produce Vita content they would. This is just a pathetic excuse.

the fuck?

how does that have anything to do with it?

[grandjedi6]

Didn't GiantBomb set up an elaborate green screen so they could do funny Kinect quick looks? Yeah, if they wanted to produce Vita content they would. This is just a pathetic excuse.

They produced a bunch of content with the VITA first launched. It just sort of sucked without any capturing equipment so they stopped. The DS and 3DS had the same problem previously (how long did it take them to get DS capturing equipment again?).

[Eusis]

How hard is to not understand my point of a predecesor being hacked and it's successor being more closed due to that? Mind you, this is all an opinion.

While it's possible an exec who just wants to make sure there's no possibilities would order this, I imagine the actual hardware engineers would have some idea of where loopholes can be found in regards to this stuff. With the PSP they underestimated people finding their way to go into debugging, and I don't even know what happened with that first firmware. Most hacking takes advantage of a forgotten (or hidden) backdoor, or a buffer overflow, so unless they really messed up/were stupid with motion capturing I don't think this would be a legitimate concern.

[megalowho]

Not providing capture solutions to press outlets is stupid, but when official trailers have to use cameras to take footage of their game, it's officially a problem. I see no good argument from Sony for how that is ok.

lolollo oh noes they're gonna hack our handheld via the mini DVI/HDMI port!

Thank you. Some of the stuff being said in this thread is driving me a little crazy inside.

[Spiegel]

So how did 4gamer record this Gravity Rush video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6sqxPAivu4

Or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX51eDBetMA&feature=plcp

[Massa]

I don't see how these two things are related. Kinect quick looks are nothing but enhanced by the elaborate green screen set-up, while Vita quick looks would obviously suffer and not be representative of the actual product with an off-screen feed.

My point is that Kinect quick looks tend to be more difficult and time consuming to produce than just point & shoot a camera at a device.

I also disagree that non-direct feed footage of Vita game is not representative. In some cases it's even preferable, as you can see how the touch inputs are used and the immediate effect they have on the game.

I have no problems with GiantBomb not covering the Vita, I'm fine with them covering a limited selection of just games they enjoy or games they can make fun of. I just think that excuse is bullshit.

[Gemüsepizza]

I watched the video. What's the problem? It does not look bad. Is this another attempt of a "Vita is doomed / Sony is screwing up!!!" thread? Personally, I prefer videos in which you can see the Vita, because it looks more impressive.

[Atolm]

Its not because of piracy, people Now this, this is a pretty likely reason

Yep, also games like Gravity Rush or Uncharted GA run at sub-native resolutions when Sony often releases screenshots at native (not upscaled) 960x544 resolutions. Providing direct-feed videos would show how most of the PR material from Sony for Vita is a scam.

[TouchMyBox]

They want you to see dat OLED.

[Volcynika]

No video out was a reason I held off on buying it. I enjoyed streaming games online, but with that missing I can't. It's pretty annoying. Still might buy one this year though.

[Takao]

I have to ask, does anyone know if Sony owns a part of Nico Nico? The Nico Nico app on Vita will eventually allow livestreams of games, but the stream quality is ass to be quite frank.

[Gemüsepizza]

Yep, also games like Gravity Rush or Uncharted GA run at sub-native resolutions when Sony often releases screenshots at native (not upscaled) 960x544 resolutions. Providing direct-feed videos would show how most of the PR material from Sony for Vita is a scam.

You should sue them. In all seriousness, this is nonsense. The PR material has sometimes higher resolutions/better quality so that the press can use them in their magazines etc. and magnify the pictures. If you want unchanged screenshots, you can simply make them. The PS Vita has a option for this, and that's how they do it in reviews etc. Btw., here is a trailer from the official Playstation channel from youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHDezyb6vhk

Now please tell me how this is a "scam".

[Atolm]

The PR material has sometimes higher resolutions/better quality so that the press can use them in their magazines etc. and magnify the pictures.

Yeah, right. Because they don't intend to show bullshot material and haven't done so with the old Uncharted vids. for example. Remember the shitstorm when Golden Abyss came out and and it didn't look at all like the pre-baked vids they showed us? And I'm not talking about those blurry, eye-bleeding screenshots captured from the Vita.

[CamHostage]

Uh? Not true at all. We still have a PSP debug unit, and didn't really have to push THAT hard to get one. For Vita, debug units with HDMI out were handed to press in the pre launch day, then Sony asked them back and sent everyone fully equipped retail units. ...I guess that everyone who had something to do with Nintendo would beg to differ. Wii debug was difficult to get a hold on back in the days, but DS/3DS? Good luck.

Wha? That's really weird you got PSP debugs without pulling hair, I assume you're talking SCE Europe? It absolutely was the case that PSP debugs were hard to come by when I was doing PSP work in America. (And go back through old footage from major sites, one can see the history of like the off-screen footage done by hand, followed by off-screen on a nice clip rig, followed by that weird Lik-Sang mod kit that dropped fields and sometimes missed button presses, followed by a huge upswing in clips when PSP2k hit... I don't remember Europe having a leg up though?) That was part of the reason why every preview was on disc (and why previews sometimes didn't happen, because preview discs weren't burned, they were stamped at a factory like the real deal, very expensive and time consuming.) I remember like bribing local developers with beer to let us come by after hours and do like GTA LCS or Exit clips, and being turned down one night because another site was already there doing the same...

And DS, opposite story there too. Those came pretty quickly, and they were really nice, let you customize which videoscreen you wanted outputted or you could do that stacked video output once they patched it a bit (they never patched it to do what I wanted though, which was turn the display sideways to best take advantage of the 4:3 output rather than squeeze it, then let you return it vertical in your encoder.) DSi, however, never came. And I remember hearing that Wii was no fun asking for, that the only reason Nintendo made them available to press was because third parties begged but 1st parties Nintendo still did draconian old-school things like sending full consoles with big steel lockbars on them. Never seen a 3DS one, but sounds like they're available, which is a relief because some of my friends who now cover those platforms thought that Nintendo was done giving debugs to press.

[Varth]

Wha? That's really weird you got PSP debugs without pulling hair, I assume you're talking SCE Europe? It absolutely was the case that PSP debugs were hard to come by when I was doing PSP work in America. (And go back through old footage from major sites, one can see the history of like the off-screen footage done by hand, followed by off-screen on a nice clip rig, followed by that weird Lik-Sang mod kit that dropped fields and sometimes missed button presses, followed by a huge upswing in clips when PSP2k hit... I don't remember Europe having a leg up though?) That was part of the reason why every preview was on disc (and why previews sometimes didn't happen, because preview discs weren't burned, they were stamped at a factory like the real deal, very expensive and time consuming.) I remember like bribing local developers with beer to let us come by after hours and do like GTA LCS or Exit clips, and being turned down one night because another site was already there doing the same... And DS, opposite story there too. Those came pretty quickly, and they were really nice, let you customize which videoscreen you wanted outputted or you could do that stacked video output once they patched it a bit (they never patched it to do what I wanted though, which was turn the display sideways to best take advantage of the 4:3 output rather than squeeze it, then let you return it vertical in your encoder.) DSi, however, never came. And I remember hearing that Wii was no fun asking for, that the only reason Nintendo made them available to press was because third parties begged but 1st parties Nintendo still did draconian old-school things like sending full consoles with big steel lockbars on them. Never seen a 3DS one, but sounds like they're available, which is a relief because some of my friends who now cover those platforms thought that Nintendo was done giving debugs to press.

Ah! So strange. Anyway, even in Europe there was (actually there's still) a huge difference between each country regarding availability of debug units to the press.