[Ripclawe]

UPDATE! BBC LIVE RESULTS

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18463543

Telegraph Live Results

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/d...tion-Live.html

Guardian Live Results
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gree...ece-polls-live

FINAL COUNTDOWN!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyggY_R3jU8

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-839104.html

Greek voters head to the polls on Sunday, and the future of Europe's common currency could hang in the balance. Investors fear that a leftist victory could trigger Greece's exit from the euro zone, magnifying problems in Spain and Italy. Adding to concerns, depositors are rapidly withdrawing their savings from Greek banks.

http://news.yahoo.com/greeks-weigh-c...-business.html

European leaders urged Greece to reject radical leftists who threaten to tear up the terms of a bailout deal should they win an election on Sunday, a result that would send shockwaves through global financial markets. Riding a wave of anger to rise from obscurity to contender for power, leftist SYRIZA leader Alexis Tsipras, 37, promises to reject the punishing terms of the 130 billion euro ($163.75 billion) bailout if he wins the nail-biter vote on Sunday. On the right, establishment heir and New Democracy leader Antonis Samaras, 61, says that would send Greece crashing out of the single currency and condemn it to even greater economic calamity. With the election set to go down to the wire, European leaders weighed in on Saturday, urging Greeks to vote with their heads. The bailout will not be renegotiated, warned German Chancellor Angela Merkel, whose country's wealth is vital to shoring up its weaker partners in the bloc.

[ag-my001]

Trying to remember what I've seen from international news lately:

1) The center/right party is pushing for continuation of the austerity measures, which everybody in Greece hates but at least it's kept money from the rest of Europe coming in.

2) The leftist party wants to throw off the austerity burdens but stay in the Euro-zone, on the premise of "they don't have the guts to kick us out".

What are the good, reliable news sources for local coverage? I can deal with BBC for Europe as a whole, but for stuff like this I like the local stuff better.

[Ether_Snake]

Trying to remember what I've seen from international news lately: 1) The center/right party is pushing for continuation of the austerity measures, which everybody in Greece hates but at least it's kept money from the rest of Europe coming in. 2) The leftist party wants to throw off the austerity burdens but stay in the Euro-zone, on the premise of "they don't have the guts to kick us out". What are the good, reliable news sources for local coverage? I can deal with BBC for Europe as a whole, but for stuff like this I like the local stuff better.

Obviously not those you have been reading.

[Ripclawe]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-at-stake.html

Exit polls at 7 pm Greeks voted for the second time in six weeks in an election that may determine the fate of the euro currency as global leaders gather for their annual summit. Exit polls will be released when voting ends at 7 p.m. in Athens, with a first official estimate due around 9:30 p.m. The final polls, published on June 1, showed no party set to win a majority. The election marks a revote after the May 6 ballot failed to yield a government. With 21 parties on the ballot, the main contest pits Syriza leader Alexis Tsipras, who has promised to renege on budget cuts demanded by creditors in exchange for a pair of bailouts, against New Democracy’s Antonis Samaras, who says his challenger is risking an exit from the currency union. “Today, the Greek people speak,” Samaras said as he cast his vote this morning. “Tomorrow, a new era begins for Greece.”

[Lagspike_exe]

Really looking forward to seeing the results. What is the latest info from the opinnion pools?

[Ripclawe]

Really looking forward to seeing the results. What is the latest info from the opinnion pools?

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ction-16588035

The last opinion polls published before a two-week pre-election ban showed the radical left Syriza party of Alexis Tsipras running neck-and-neck with the conservative New Democracy party of Antonis Samaras. But no party is likely to win enough votes to form a government on its own, meaning a coalition will have to be formed to avoid yet another election.

Tsipras has argued that the terms of the loans were too harsh, but argues that repealing them will not mean Greece will have to leave the euro. Opinion polls show 80 percent of Greeks want to remain in the euro.

[Sickboy007]

First official exit poll, watching it on Greek TV:


New Democracy 27,5-30

Siriza 27-30

Pasok 10-12

Indipendent Greeks 6-7,5

Nazis 6-7.5

Commies 5-6

Nazis and Siriza were the only parties that grew. It looks like it will be a hard fight between Siriza and New Democracy for the majority bonus.

[Centurion]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...-at-stake.html

I'm ready to watch the world burn.

[PhoenixPause]

This will also likely be the beginning of the end for Obama's presidency. Assuming the leftists win and get their way

[jaxword]

This will also likely be the beginning of the end for Obama's presidency. Assuming the leftists win and get their way

The Greece election is going to destroy Obama's presidency...?

[Centurion]

This will also likely be the beginning of the end for Obama's presidency. Assuming the leftists win and get their way

you try too hard.

[Lagspike_exe]

The Greece election is going to destroy Obama's presidency?

It will hugely increase the possibility of the euro meltdown. USA would certainly experience fallout from such an event and Obama's reelection chances are strongly correlated with the state of the economy.

[Majine]

This will also likely be the beginning of the end for Obama's presidency. Assuming the leftists win and get their way

What.

[Erebus]

BREAKING NEWS First exit poll results suggest the outcome is too close to call. Pro-bailout party New Democracy is about equal on 30% with anti-bailout party Syriza.

This is gonna be good.

[Ripclawe]

What.

People. Euro melts down over Greek vote, damages the world financial markets and hurts Obama's chances of getting reelected.

Not rocket science

1714: Chris Morris, BBC Europe correspondent, reports: Pretty much a dead heat statistically. But don't forget whoever comes first - however narrowly - gets 50 extra seats. Every vote counts - the cliche has never been more true.

[Neo C.]

New Democracy 27,5-30 Siriza 27-30 Pasok 10-12 Indipendent Greeks 6-7,5 Nazis 6-7.5 Commies 5-6 First official exit poll, watching it on Greek TV. Nazis and Siriza were the only parties that grew. It looks like it will be a hard fight between Siriza and New Democracy for the majority bonus.

Their system with majority bonus is stupid. I wonder why their founding fathers thought this were a good idea.

[Sickboy007]

I'm incredibly disappointed about Golden Dawn actually growing. Looks like the Greek didn't learn their lesson.

[shadyspace]

Well this should be fun.

[Enosh]

so, see you all in 6 weeks again?

[empty vessel]

The last opinion polls published before a two-week pre-election ban showed the radical left Syriza party of Alexis Tsipras ...

Ha, that party ain't radical. It isn't even proposing to leave the Eurozone!

This will also likely be the beginning of the end for Obama's presidency. Assuming the leftists win and get their way

While Europe of course affects the US economy, the US has fiscal tools to exercise that give it far more control over it than it has been exercising. It is not Europe that will ultimately be problematic for the US economy, it is Republicans and Democrats.

[sflufan]

My God! This could mean ANOTHER election in a few weeks!

[Sickboy007]

Their system with majority bonus is stupid. I wonder why their founding fathers thought this were a good idea.

Governability. Parliamentary systems often have a very fragmented, ideological representation.

Case in point, they'll probably need another election to get a government.

[Chris1964]

so, see you all in 6 weeks again?

99.99% this time there with be a government whoever the winner is.

[Sickboy007]

A question for Greek gaffers: How the hell wasn't Venizelos sacked? Does he own the party or something?

[Chichikov]

Their system with majority bonus is stupid. I wonder why their founding fathers thought this were a good idea.

I'm pretty sure it's a new system.

Also, "founding fathers" is really an American term (and a rather silly one at that).

[Eljay]

99.99% this time there with be a government whoever the winner is.

If New Dems win there should be no doubt, but Syriza could make the next few days more interesting. If Greece does delay in any way all it does is make them less relevant compared to what is going on in Spain.

[Dash27]

I thought this article made a good point about why the Greeks might not be too keen on listening to what all the experts think:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/17/op...rssnyt&emc=rss

The elite consensus is that this would represent economic suicide for the Greeks, as well as a potential disaster for Europe as a whole. (And not only Europe: rest assured that the Obama White House, too, is praying that Syriza underperforms.) This consensus is probably correct, and probably persuasive enough to prevent the Greek electorate from delivering the country into the hands of the far left. But there are two realities that explain why so many Greek voters find Syriza attractive. First, recent experience has given ordinary Europeans no reason to trust elite predictions about anything. The entire E.U. project was hailed as a self-evident good by a generation’s worth of statesmen and intellectuals, and Euroskepticism was confined in many countries to the fringes of the left and right. Now those fringes have been vindicated, and all the statesmen and intellectuals stand exposed.

EU was supposed to insulate members from situations like this but clearly it can't. Now that this is obvious the same peoples are saying they need to further integrate and give up more fiscal autonomy. I dont know how happy I'd be about that either. Still wouldnt vote for something like Syriza though, which makes even that horrible option sound better.

[Chris1964]

I thought this article made a good point about why the Greeks might not be too keen on listening to what all the experts think

I'm tired of "experts" that want to save us.

[Ether_Snake]

Greece needs its own currency and 100% control on its economic future, if it wants to recover.

So do most of Europe actually.

[Gunpei]

Greece needs its own currency and 100% control on its economic future, if it wants to recover. So do most of Europe actually.

That is true to a certain extent, as Iceland and other countries have proven. However, this isn't the case with Greece. It can't just switch to drachma without suffering the consequences. I've been undergoing chemotherapy and had to pay for the drugs. Some medicine can't even be found in the market. At this point, the country can't afford to support its healthcare system. Switching to drachma is not an option.

[Blablurn]

it seems to be pretty close. this fact alone dissappoints me :(

[Kafel]

That is true to a certain extent, as Iceland and other countries have proven. However, this isn't the case with Greece. It can't just switch to drachma without suffering the consequences. I've been undergoing chemotherapy and had to pay for the drugs. Some medicine can't even be found in the market. At this point, the country can't afford to support its healthcare system. Switching to drachma is not an option.

Stop taking Iceland as an example in Economics. Iceland is a small town.

[Lagspike_exe]

That is true to a certain extent, as Iceland and other countries have proven. However, this isn't the case with Greece. It can't just switch to drachma without suffering the consequences. I've been undergoing chemotherapy and had to pay for the drugs. Some medicine can't even be found in the market. At this point, the country can't afford to support its healthcare system. Switching to drachma is not an option.

The other option is austerity, which has done huge damage. 30% unemployment is unsustainable.

[Tieno]

can't believe greece elections decide the future of Europe...

[WARCOCK]

Greece needs its own currency and 100% control on its economic future, if it wants to recover. So do most of Europe actually.

OK. Will remember to forward your memo to Frau Merkel.

[Kafel]

can't believe greece elections decide the future of Europe...

They don't. They decide their future IN Europe.

But we should have never taken them to begin with.

[Stinkles]

I have still yet to read any opinion from any mainstream economist who thinks that austerity was going to work when applied on a piecemeal basis and dsicrimnatorily as it was with Greece and Ireland. The two extremes show that there wasn't a case where it was going to work, no matter how 'good' (Ireland) or 'naughty' ( Greece) the state actor was going to be.

[Gunpei]

The other option is austerity, which has done huge damage. 30% unemployment is unsustainable.

Currently the dilemma in Europe is austerity vs fiscal stimulus.

They don't. They decide their future IN Europe. But we should have never taken them to begin with.

Or Eurozone as we know it should have never existed to begin with.

[Blablurn]

They don't. They decide their future IN Europe. But we should have never taken them to begin with.

easier said than done. even though greece's economic numbers were not that good, it was also a sign of solidarity to add them. plus they wanted to avoid that the communist corner got their hand on greece.

[Lagspike_exe]

Currently the dilemma in Europe is austerity vs fiscal stimulus.

Neither is going to solve your issues.

[Kafel]

easier said than done. even though greece's economic numbers were not that good, it was also a sign of solidarity to add them. plus they wanted to avoid that the communist corner got their hand on greece.

It's not about numbers. Rather about lack of numbers : corruption and fraud seem to be national sports there.

[Sickboy007]

New Democracy 29.6-30
Siriza 27.5-28.4
PASOK 11-12.4
Indipentent Greeks 6.8-7.8
Golden Dawn 6.5-7.1
Democratic Left 5.8-6.6
Communist Party 5.8-5.6

[Chris1964]

Second exit poll shows ND first and Syriza second. PASOK and ND alone can form a government and they will since like real life thieves support each other.

[jchap]

Crisis averted!

[LJ11]

That is true to a certain extent, as Iceland and other countries have proven. However, this isn't the case with Greece. It can't just switch to drachma without suffering the consequences. I've been undergoing chemotherapy and had to pay for the drugs. Some medicine can't even be found in the market. At this point, the country can't afford to support its healthcare system. Switching to drachma is not an option.

It would be tremendously difficult for the citizens of Greece in the short term, but it's their best option for long term growth. The only way they can afford to stay in the monetary union is if they're backstopped wholesale for the foreseeable future.

I have still yet to read any opinion from any mainstream economist who thinks that austerity was going to work when applied on a piecemeal basis and dsicrimnatorily as it was with Greece and Ireland. The two extremes show that there wasn't a case where it was going to work, no matter how 'good' (Ireland) or 'naughty' ( Greece) the state actor was going to be.

Right, you combine that with a flat/contracting money supply, what's left?

[Brettison]

Shit is definitely going to be interesting as they sort all of this out!

[Gunpei]

Neither is going to solve your issues.

At least it's an option. Greece's private sector was still a healthy part of the economy two years ago. However 100% of 30% of unemployment comes from the private sector.

[Chris1964]

New Democracy 29.6-30 Siriza 27.5-28.4 PASOK11-12.4 Indipentent Greeks 6.8-7.8 Golden Dawn 6.5-7.1 Democratic Left 5.8-6.6 Communist Party 5.8-5.6

Seriously, you must have reading problems

New Democracy 28.6-30.0 - 127
SYRIZA 27.0-28.4 - 72
PASOK 11.0-12.4 - 32
Independent Greeks 6.8-7.8 - 21
Golden Dawn 6.5-7.1 - 19
Democratic Left 5.8-6.6 - 16
Communist Party 4.8-5.6 - 13

[Computer]

Explain to me how 1 in 16 people in Greece can be a Nazi. Jesus Christ.

[Sickboy007]

Seriously, you must have reading problems New Democracy 28.6-30.0 - 127 SYRIZA 27.0-28.4 - 72 PASOK 11.0-12.4 - 32 Independent Greeks 6.8-7.8 - 21 Golden Dawn 6.5-7.1 - 19 Democratic Left 5.8-6.6 - 16 Communist Party 4.8-5.6 - 13

Eeeeh, Greek tv is confusing. I was typing it in a hurry.