[soqquatto]

teh funnay is that in europe even old ladies drive stick. why make a big fuss out of it? you stall the car the first week and then get over it and it's normal. you're not a pro driver, you're not doing anything exceptional. I'm not feeling like I'm racing on Laguna Seca when I drive my Corsa....

[Mael]

Here the only automatic car that even sell is the Prius I think, the rest it's basically the death sentence if you even try to sell a non manual car.
And with good reasons, I mean since driving car is sometimes mandatory might as well make it entertaining!
Oh and the Prius is selling in spite of being an automatic car to boot (it would sell more with the option)

[Sappy113]

In the UK it is a point of ridicule if you don't know how to drive manual. That is what most people drive too. Infact I've never heard of a driving instructor who doesn't use a manual car to teach with.

Same in Scandinavia. Most cars are sold with manual, and all driving instruction is based upon it. You can certainly get automatic transmission cars. It's just not very common.

I only got my license a few years back, and yea, I struggled with the clutch and stick for a bit. You get used to it fairly quickly, and from then, it just becomes second nature. You don't think about shifting gears, you just do it. I wouldn't mind driving an automatic, just pretty sure my left leg and right arm wouldn't know what to make of it :p

[Leonsito]

Uh? In Europe 99% of the cars are manual. Most of the models doesnt even have the option of an AT.

[Hoo-doo]

The only people i know that drive automatics over here are the elderly.

[AdrianWerner]

I haven't seen an automatic in like 5 years. Aren't automatics popular only in USA?

Anyway, I like manual. I like driving and this gives me more of the feeling of doing so. Plus manual control of gears allows for more economical driving

[CiSTM]

Uh? In Europe 99% of the cars are manual. Most of the models doesnt even have the option of an AT.

Yup, back when I was thinking buying car my jaw was floored when I saw the price difference for same models but with and without automatic transmission. Prices have come down lot but automatic will still set you back.

[mrklaw]

In the UK it is a point of ridicule if you don't know how to drive manual. That is what most people drive too. Infact I've never heard of a driving instructor who doesn't use a manual car to teach with.

and yet over here city driving is plenty bad enough to benefit from automatic transmissions. My wife and I both drive autos, and for her it was a pain to find a small car with an auto box.

Modern semi-autos are often quicker than manuals and still offer the simplicity of a full auto too.

Full on manual transmissions will soon become nothing more than a lifestyle choice

[ShadyLurker]

These days, the performance/economy/control/whatever argument is pretty much out the window with new cars. It's basically just down to whatever you prefer. My current car is an old piece of junk with a MT. When I can afford a new car it will likely be Auto unless I buy something sporty.

[Scuderia]

Don't know a single person who drives an AT, and if i did they would be ridiculed until they learnt to drive a MT.

[mrklaw]

Don't know a single person who drives an AT, and if i did they would be ridiculed until they learnt to drive a MT.

how about the guy in your avatar :P

[shorty_symd]

lolol at all the AT bullying mentioned in this thread. It's like mocking a person for using a knife/fork instead of chopsticks. who cares?! you're still getting to your destination regardless of what kind of care you drive.

[Router]

I drive a hyundai veloster+ with the sport auto. Its my first auto car and I find it pretty boring even with the option of the paddle shifters.

Interestingly, while discussing a trade in for Toyotas new GT86, the dealer said pre orders in australia were almost 3-1 in favour of the Auto.

That shocked me quite a bit to be honest.

[KevinCow]

lolol at all the AT bullying mentioned in this thread. It's like mocking a person for using a knife/fork instead of chopsticks. who gives a damn?!

cuz all those automatic drivers are just a bunch of stupid fat lazy inferior americans, didn't you know?

EUROPE RULEZ!!!!!

[sasimirobot]

If you travel (outside the US) learning manual will of course come in handy. Actually the main point of learning it is that someday you may need to use it and if you can't it does looks kind girlish. Its not a bad life skill for a man.

Foreign cars, sport bikes, large trucks/vans, etc...

I also like trolling people on hills like laurel canyon in LA by breaking using downshift. If they are used to just looking at brake lights to keep from tailgating, it will catch them off guard.

Oh another cool thing about manuals, if you run down the battery you can "jump start" it by having your friends push it and shift into second gear. Can't do that with auto...

[teruterubozu]

I also like trolling people on hills like laurel canyon in LA by breaking using downshift. If they are used to just looking at brake lights to keep from tailgating, it will catch them off guard.

Almost all the newer automatics have the ability to downshift in semi-manual mode. Really, it's not that special.

[Suairyu]

Manual+diesel engine is the way to go. You can't stall the fuckers if you tried.

All the control benefits of a manual, plus the traffic-jam suitability of an automatic.

Also they're just so fucking torque-y. I love it.

[ShadyLurker]

If you travel (outside the US) learning manual will of course come in handy. Actually the main point of learning it is that someday you may need to use it and if you can't it does looks kind girlish. Its not a bad life skill for a man. Foreign cars, sport bikes, large trucks/vans, etc... I also like trolling people on hills like laurel canyon in LA by breaking using downshift. If they are used to just looking at brake lights to keep from tailgating, it will catch them off guard. Oh another cool thing about manuals, if you run down the battery you can "jump start" it by having your friends push it and shift into second gear. Can't do that with auto...

You like trying to cause car accidents?

[i nerini del buio]

cuz all those automatic drivers are just a bunch of stupid fat lazy inferior americans, didn't you know?

isn't that true?

[DBT85]

I had a manual Focus (in the UK here, Manual is the norm btw) but now I have an Octavia with a 7 speed DSG and the 1.8TSI engine. Petrol and proud.

Fuck manuals.

I have all the torque of a manual with less hassle. When I want to get away from the lights it gets away faster because 2nd is pre engaged when I'm in 1st, 3rd is pre engaged when I'm in 2nd etc.

And to cap it al off if I want I can just tap the shifter to the left and I now have a sequential shift box.

I won't buy a manual car for me again, and I'll also not buy an auto with a traditional slush box either.

27 BTW.

[FyreWulff]

If you travel (outside the US) learning manual will of course come in handy. Actually the main point of learning it is that someday you may need to use it and if you can't it does looks kind girlish. Its not a bad life skill for a man.

Do you come up to everyone's window while they're driving to see if they're using a stick? Does anyone actually care but you? And why the fuck is manual transmission "manly"?

[Krabardaf]

Belgium here, never been in a car with automatic transmission...
I learned with manual and you don't really pay attention to it once you're accustomed.

[CiSTM]

Manual+diesel engine is the way to go. You can't stall the fuckers if you tried. All the control benefits of a manual, plus the traffic-jam suitability of an automatic. Also they're just so fucking torque-y. I love it.

What control benefits manual brings to table, if you do normal city drive I really don't see the benefits. You could save some gas wiht manual a decade ago but these days automatics are rather smart and don't waste gas at all. Other then that I don't know any benefits. I have been driving manual for 20 years and I envy people with automatics :D

edit. ofcourse if you do racing then manual is must and you need the feel of the car but in city drive I don't think benefits are that overwhelming.

[goomba]

Manual+diesel engine is the way to go. You can't stall the fuckers if you tried. All the control benefits of a manual, plus the traffic-jam suitability of an automatic. Also they're just so fucking torque-y. I love it.

Sounds cool . I only recently even understood that diesel cars can also run on bio diesel , whats a good manual diesel coupe anyone ?

[Richfield]

I haven't seen an automatic in like 5 years. Aren't automatics popular only in USA?

They're pretty popular in Australia, although manuals are still easy to buy. Most (all?) rental cars are automatic, if that's any indication.

There's still a stigma around those people with automatic only licences though.

[goomba]

What control benefits manual brings to table, if you do normal city drive I really don't see the benefits. You could save some gas wiht manual a decade ago but these days automatics are rather smart and don't waste gas at all. Other then that I don't know any benefits. I have been driving manual for 20 years and I envy people with automatics :D

When you go to take a right or left turn do you lower your speed by changing down a gear ? That sort of control... direct engine speed control... that you can ease on and off using the clutch.

[astroturfing]

i've had my drivers license for 11 years and just last night i had to drive automatic for the first time. it was frightening and weird at first. but in the end it felt ok, so easy.. i like easy.

[n0n44m]

all "oldskool" manuals I've driven were pretty much terrible, annoying upshifting and downshifting every time you don't want/need it and so on

I'd definitely consider the newer double clutch "robot" transmissions though if I would have a commute with lots of traffic, but currently the few hours of stop-n-go each year is no problem with a diesel+manual car.

furthermore, riding along with some American students during my study abroad, I did notice that sitting backwards behind the wheel and talking to people on the backseats while driving at absurd speeds is only possible with an automatic transmission ;) just give kids MT cars and make it mandatory to know how to drive MT in order to get a driver's license and American traffic fatalities should go down quite a bit (some traffic safety college professor totally agreed with me :p)

here in Europe/Netherlands most non-luxury cars are manuals; automatics not only carry quite a significant price premium, but on the same engine type their fuel economy/emission levels are always worse which often puts them in higher fiscal brackets as well. For diesels, most DSG type of automatic boxes I see are only available on smaller engine sizes (torque limit?) ... so you either have a choice between a 105 hp 1.6 diesel DSG (lol no) or a 180 hp 2.0 diesel MT (hell yeah) in the same price range

[DBT85]

i've had my drivers license for 11 years and just last night i had to drive automatic for the first time. it was frightening and weird at first. but in the end it felt ok, so easy.. i like easy.

I found it very strange for a few days also. Especially when you get off a motorway and need to stop at a set of lights. Because you wouldn't have been using the clutch anyway you forget that you don't now have one. The left side of my body now feels all kinds of useless but I am far more relaxed and chilled even after I've been in stop start traffic for an hour.

but on the same engine type their fuel economy/emission levels are always worse which often puts them in higher fiscal brackets as well. For diesels, most DSG type of automatic boxes I see are only available on smaller engine sizes (torque limit?) ... so you either have a choice between a 105 hp 1.6 diesel DSG (lol no) or a 180 hp 2.0 diesel MT (hell yeah) in the same price range

The original DSG boxes were 6 speed wet clutches, being wet they had a slight penalty on efficiency and they were limited to 350nm engines. They were in the Golf R32 and Audi TT as well as smaller engined cars. Newer ones are 7 speed dry clutches that in some cases come out better on emissions and efficiency than the equivalent manual (which is usually only a 6 speed). There is also a 7 speed wet clutch which is newer but also for larger cars whcih can handle 600nm and 440BHP.

Also regarding the torque limit, my 1.8 TSI 7 speed DSG is 160BHP, 250nm which is the limit on my engine when not modified. The box can take more but not "officially".

I know on a Skoda you can get the DSG on anything from the 1.2 Turbo Petrol (105BHP, 175NM) all the way up to the 2.0 Turbo Petrol (200BHP, 280NM) or the 2.0 Turbo Diesel (170BHP, 350NM), all depending on the model. That is fairly similar across the VAG range.

[CiSTM]

When you go to take a right or left turn do you lower your speed by changing down a gear ? That sort of control... direct engine speed control... that you can ease on and off using the clutch.

But I don't need that control since automatic does everything for me. And most people really dont know how to work the clutch in economical way, or even to change gears in economical way.

[sasimirobot]

Do you come up to everyone's window while they're driving to see if they're using a stick? Does anyone actually care but you? And why the fuck is manual transmission "manly"?

That is not what I mean.

I mean more like meet some random girl in Laos, she says "here drive me home on my motorbike", you are like "sorry, can I ride on the back and hug you?"
(* cultural note, in SE Asia men are expected to do the driving)

I could care less what people drive, its having the option to drive a vehicle in almost any situation that is "manly".

and no I don't like trying to cause accidents but tailgaters suck, and if I make one shit his pants once in a while that is his fault not mine

[teruterubozu]

Knowing how to fix a spare is manly. Women have been driving MTs for almost 100 years now.

[sasimirobot]

I never said women can't drive MT. All the ones in my family can. I have just been in situations where the problem came up that somebody couldn't drive the vehicle because they didn't know how to use MT.

It was just...well...kinda pathetic

[mescalineeyes]

I bought mine with a manual. Would prefer AT but it's not worth the 3000 Euros extra BMW is charging, even though it saves a little gas.

Manual is a bit more fun though.

[goomba]

But I don't need that control since automatic does everything for me. And most people really dont know how to work the clutch in economical way, or even to change gears in economical way.

No it doesn't , you are using your brakes to slow the car down instead.

[CiSTM]

I bought mine with a manual. Would prefer AT but it's not worth the 3000 Euros extra BMW is charging, even though it saves a little gas. Manual is a bit more fun though.

Every time you want to drive fast manual is so much fun, every time when you are speeding and change gear you feel like a boss but other then that manual isn't really more or less fun then automatic. Especially if you are stuck in bad traffic manual can be bothersome, my ankle gets restless from time to time if I have to play with the clutch constantly.

No it doesn't , you are using your brakes to slow the car down instead.

I use brake to slow down with manual too.

[Suairyu]

But I don't need that control since automatic does everything for me.

No. An automatic does its best to pair up an appropriate gear to the speed you're going.

With gear changing you're literally controlling exactly how much power the engine can output at any one moment. You can set hard limits on your speed or instantly change your gears for different corner control, or you can change gear without necessarily needing to change speed, which is fantastic for moments of instant maneuvering.

It also allows you to limit your speed when travelling downhill. Put the car in third gear and you are not going over forty(ish), even when downhill.

It's all about control.

Maybe that's not control you need in an American city, which I understand are laid out in very simple grid patterns a lot of the time.

[Manp]

i'm pretty sure you can't even get a licence here if you're not able to drive manual...

:)

[DBT85]

No. An automatic does its best to pair up an appropriate gear to the speed you're going. With gear changing you're literally controlling exactly how much power the engine can output at any one moment. You can set hard limits on your speed or instantly change your gears for different corner control, or you can change gear without necessarily needing to change speed, which is fantastic for moments of instant maneuvering. It also allows you to limit your speed when travelling downhill. Put the car in third gear and you are not going over forty(ish), even when downhill. It's all about control. Maybe that's not control you need in an American city, which I understand are laid out in very simple grid patterns a lot of the time.

Do most autos not have individual gear selection as an option? I can do all that in mine.

[Suairyu]

Do most autos not have individual gear selection as an option? I can do all that in mine.

My experience of them is that you can chose gears 1 and 2, but everything after that is all handled by "drive" and is fully automatic.

I'm aware some cars allow you to switch between manual and automatic, but I have no idea how people rate them.

[soqquatto]

Do you come up to everyone's window while they're driving to see if they're using a stick? Does anyone actually care but you? And why the fuck is manual transmission "manly"?

because the MT is "intimidating" or "elitist" to Americans. it has the same logic (so, zero). it's a stupid misconception. AT is not girlish and MT is not complex, but simplifying/mocking is ever so easy.

edit: the way you operate your car's trasmission should not be a cultural matter!

[TCRS]

UK here, basically everyone here drives manual. Automatics suck in my experience. Feels like you are never in control of the car driving. Manual on the other hand gives you all the control you could need.

I live in London, automatic here is heaven. I drove manual for 2,5 years and then got myself a nice automatic Toyota.

[DBT85]

My experience of them is that you can chose gears 1 and 2, but everything after that is all handled by "drive" and is fully automatic.

Ah. Well thats crappy.

The felling of sitting in 7th at 70 on the motorway, slipping the shifter left, tapping it back twice to get to 5th, letting the engine rev match itself so perfectly that you don't even feel it and then flooring it and just feeling the car pull and pull and pull is exhilarating. No judder, no lurch, just power.

Then when I'm crawling through London to get to work (Chiswick or St Pauls) I just chill and let it do it's thing.

[worldrevolution]

Is this a generation thing? How old are the Americans here saying they don't know how to drive stick? In my late 20's and everyone I grew up with knew how to drive manual and all of our first cars were manual too. On the east coast here. It's sad to think manual is dying in America. Though once you have a family automatic can be very convenient.

[Nevasleep]

I hope we don't change to automatic, it'll lead to bad drivers distracting themselves even more.
Cars are dangerous, people should at least have the decency to stay alert.

Also how many automatic related accidents are there in the US, usually old people just putting their foot down on accelerator?

[ascii42]

I read somewhere that last year had the highest percentage of manual transmission sales in America in several years.

I've driven manual transmission cars from time to time, but I've never owned one. It's been a long time since I've had a car where it would have even been an option. Just sort of how it is with the sort of cars I go for.

[mescalineeyes]

Every time you want to drive fast manual is so much fun, every time when you are speeding and change gear you feel like a boss but other then that manual isn't really more or less fun then automatic. Especially if you are stuck in bad traffic manual can be bothersome, my ankle gets restless from time to time if I have to play with the clutch constantly.

I agree with everything you said. The ankle thing is a problem for me as well, seeing how I am pretty tall, but my car has the seats a little better than most other cars for me so it's not that big of a problem.

As I said, would've greatly preferred an AT but 3k can buy a lot of other nice things :)
Next time ;)

I hope we don't change to automatic, it'll lead to bad drivers distracting themselves even more. Cars are dangerous, people should at least have the decency to stay alert. Also how many automatic related accidents are there in the US, usually old people just putting their foot down on accelerator?

A case can be made for automatic transmissions helping the driver focus on the road instead of focussing on driving the car.

[Marvie_3]

I will never buy another car with an automatic transmission again.

[shorty_symd]

A case can be made for automatic transmissions helping the driver focus on the road instead of focussing on driving the car.

yup. Totally agree with this.

[Bitmap Frogs]

Oh another cool thing about manuals, if you run down the battery you can "jump start" it by having your friends push it and shift into second gear. Can't do that with auto...

THIS

This is sooo unvaluable. It will save your butt, many times.

Nowadays the most efficient is a double clutch with paddles... truth is a computer controlled machine will engage/disengage the clutch and the gears faster than a human can. The thing is, stick is more engaging: in order to drive stick efficiently, you want to think ahead and predict what you'll be doing with your car, taking into account things like the quality of the road, the angle if the road isn't flat, turns ahead of you and how wide/tight they are, etc. I like to think it makes driving safer...

Even the dreaded urban driving is engaging... there are tricks you can play with the clutch and the gearbox to minimize the need for both gear changes and sudden braking/accelerating.

I also like to say I don't look down upon anyone for driving auto, but I'm lying. All stick drivers look down upon auto drivers, even unconsciously.