[PhoenixPause]

PPP: Arizona - Romney leads 49 - 46

Am I reading that wrong or does it say Romney has 52% of the African American vote?

[Plinko]

Dafuq?

The GOP hates taxes SO MUCH that they just flat out ignore every other tax in the nation other than federal.

Grover Norquist is a gigantic douche.

[Plinko]

Am I reading that wrong or does it say Romney has 52% of the African American vote?

I'm also seeing that Obama only has 37% of the African-American support in the state as well and that Jan Brewer has 63%. It also says 57% of African Americans disapprove of Obama.

That makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Tamanon]

Am I reading that wrong or does it say Romney has 52% of the African American vote?

Yeah....it's saying Obama gets 37% of the African American vote.....

That's....peculiar.

[Oblivion]

The GOP hates taxes SO MUCH that they just flat out ignore every other tax in the nation other than federal. Grover Norquist is a gigantic douche.

Speaking of the anointed one:

http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/...ery-nice-left-

Summary: C-span prank caller pretends he's a rich Republican mocking poor people for paying more in taxes than he does. Norquist, surprisingly not amused, calls him a "left wing twit" and proceeds to talk about all the burdensome taxes the poor rich folk have to deal with.

My favorite part in that clip though, was where he attacked Obama for wanting to tax the "peasants". In a defense about protecting the rich, he somehow tied that shit with tricking people into thinking Obama wants to tax everyone else too. Magnifique, Grover.

[cartoon_soldier]

Am I reading that wrong or does it say Romney has 52% of the African American vote?

Yea, but they are also only 3% of the polled public. That might skew the results?

PPP's own AZ Poll:
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/p...SAZ_052312.pdf

[Blearth]

Yeah....it's saying Obama gets 37% of the African American vote..... That's....peculiar.

Only 24 African-Americans were polled.

Small sample shenanigans!

[Copernicus]

It's only 3% of the people polled though.

e: beaten like rubio.

[Plinko]

I find it hilarious that the GOP keeps returning to this same campaign when over 70% of Americans wanted the Buffett rule.

Oh wait, I know why they're doing it again--they want as much money as they can for the election cycle this year.

[Plinko]

Only 24 African-Americans were polled. Small sample shenanigans!

So can we simply say that this poll is worthless? Or is that the percentage of African-Americans in Arizona who actually vote?

[DasRaven]

So can we simply say that this poll is worthless? Or is that the percentage of African-Americans in Arizona who actually vote?

No, I can say from a boots-on-the-ground perspective, the poll is not far off. There are lots of blacks in Romney's constituency here.
Older, religious(Mormon & SBC), and suburban.

That said, we Blacks are only a small % of the population here, so we're not going to be the deciding factor. The "DREAM" kids will be, young Latinos.

[PantherLotus]

we blacks?

[DasRaven]

we blacks?

"We" - Pronoun
Used to refer to the speaker together with other people regarded in the same category.

Back on topic:

No, we ARE vetting Rubio, really! *sound of a furiously shaking etch-a-sketch*

[Jackson50]

So can we simply say that this poll is worthless? Or is that the percentage of African-Americans in Arizona who actually vote?

3% is congruous with previous rates for black voters in AZ. So, the poll isn't worthless, but the sub-sample for black voters certainly is worthless. It's prohibitively noisy.

[Mike M]

This thread title is like some allegory of the 2000 election...

[Black Republican]

PPP: Colorado - Obama leads 49 - 42 PPP: Arizona - Romney leads 49 - 46

not buying the AZ poll, unless a shitload of new latinos will vote for obama to outweigh the loss of the white vote

[PhoenixPause]

Latinos would have to flood the polls in Arizona for Obama to win there.

[Oblivion]

[Cyan]

Latinos would have to flood the polls in Arizona for Obama to win there.

Well that would explain why Obama gave that executive order that makes it so illegal immigrants can vote.

[Black Republican]

imagine if obama won latinos 80-20

[Chumly]

imagine if obama won latinos 80-20

Republicans only have to keep demonizing them a little bit longer

[Aaron Strife]

Latinos would have to flood the polls in Arizona for Obama to win there.

Maybe not flood, but if you got their turnout at the same level as blacks, sure.

[Black Republican]

Maybe not flood, but if you got their turnout at the same level as blacks, sure.

3/5ths?

[Kosmo]

Definitely disappointed.

Wait until November.

[Oblivion]

Republican Senator: I don't want insurance companies to deny coverage to people with cancer, I'm just saying they should be ALLOWED to, that's all!

[eBay Huckster]

imagine if obama won latinos 80-20

looking like that's gonna happen at this point

[Plinko]

Republican Senator: I don't want insurance companies to deny coverage to people with cancer, I'm just saying they should be ALLOWED to, that's all!

And given the opportunity absolutely zero insurance companies would give coverage to cancer patients.

Again, keep running on this platform, GOP. That'll go over REAL well with the general public.

[Kosmo]

Republican Senator: I don't want insurance companies to deny coverage to people with cancer, I'm just saying they should be ALLOWED to, that's all!

Oh shit, context:

Of particular interest to the candidate is a mandate that requires an employer to pay for certain services they may be morally opposed to — such as birth control — which Mourdock said he opposes. But is that fair to the consumer, who may want their birth control covered? Mourdock’s example was an employer who decided to cover everything but cancer. “Does that employer have the right to do it? I would say yes they do if they want to keep their health care costs down but it also means it’s less likely you’re going to want to work here. If that employer wants to get the best employees coming in the door he’s going to offer the best insurance possible.” So is there anything to like about Obamacare? Mourdock concedes that he has heard support from people on the pre-existing condition coverage that the bill allows. Further, he said, health insurance companies are also embracing a provision in the law which allows parents to keep their children on their plans until they reach age 26. “Those types of reforms are good ones that we need to continue to build on,” he said.

Assuming you are willing to argue within our current system and not go "BAHHHH MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!!" what do you think a small employer should be able to do? Say I employ 10 people in a modest $3M revenue a year business. I want to offer my employees full health insurance, but if one of them gets cancer and hits me with a $600K bill, the business is sunk.

Fortunately, this is all a moot point, since small businesses almost exclusively buy HMO products, not PPO.

[Hobbestetrician]

And given the opportunity absolutely zero insurance companies would give coverage to cancer patients. Again, keep running on this platform, GOP. That'll go over REAL well with the general public.

Nine months of cancer treatment/surgeries/tests/hospital stay last year would have cost me over $150,000 so of course insurance companies would not want to cover it. I had shitty emergency insurance and had to pay around $9,000 (deductibles/office visits) so the insurance company still had to pay quite a lot for my treatment.

[Oblivion]

Check mate, libruls. :smug

[Oblivion]

Oh shit, context:

Actually, that doesn't make it any better.

Assuming you are willing to argue within our current system and not go "BAHHHH MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!!" what do you think a small employer should be able to do? Say I employ 10 people in a modest $3M revenue a year business. I want to offer my employees full health insurance, but if one of them gets cancer and hits me with a $600K bill, the business is sunk.

Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this, but how exactly does that work AFTER your employee (whom you presumably covered) gets sick?

[XMonkey]

Assuming you are willing to argue within our current system and not go "BAHHHH MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!!" what do you think a small employer should be able to do? Say I employ 10 people in a modest $3M revenue a year business. I want to offer my employees full health insurance, but if one of them gets cancer and hits me with a $600K bill, the business is sunk. Fortunately, this is all a moot point, since small businesses almost exclusively buy HMO products, not PPO.

It sounds like a good example of why our current system is terrible and unsustainable.

[daedalius]

Check mate, libruls. :smug

So what are taxes?

Idiotic comic.

[PhoenixPause]

Kos with a brief comparison between Govs. O'Malley and Cuomo, with an eye on 2016
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...alley-vs-Cuomo

I'm not a fan of Cuomo and certainly not Gillibrand. I don't know enough about O'Malley to make any definitive statements, but I like the little I've heard.

But I think Mark Warner is going to be very potent, assuming Hillary doesn't run. Not a big fan of his either, but he seems to have a lot going for him primary wise (successful governor, senator, business man, swing state home, will appeal to Iowa, etc)

[Oblivion]

So what are taxes?

Something created by the Obama administration.

[Kosmo]

Actually, that doesn't make it any better. Forgive me if I'm misunderstanding this, but how exactly does that work AFTER your employee (whom you presumably covered) gets sick?

Some employers self-fund, meaning they pay all the bills for their employees at the rates the insurer they are contracted with hospitals, physicians, etc. For companies over a certain size (200-300 employees), this makes it cheaper in the long run, but bears risk.

Smaller companies generally only buy HMO products, which are fully insured (i.e. they pay a premium to the insurer, who then bears the risk."

[daedalius]

Something created by the Obama administration.

I guess for people that think that the comic is making a good point, they probably think that is true.

We didn't have taxes before Obama, what a jerk.

[Plinko]

It sounds like a good example of why our current system is terrible and unsustainable.

Agreed.

[Jackson50]

It sounds like a good example of why our current system is terrible and unsustainable.

Exactly. That starkly demonstrates why UHC would prove a massive benefit.

Well that would explain why Obama gave that executive order that makes it so illegal immigrants can vote.

Obama's sly.

[quadriplegicjon]

. Meh

[PantherLotus]

Subject change: Obama's ground game is freaking surging. Anybody else notice over the past few days?

[PhoenixPause]

Subject change: Obama's ground game is freaking surging. Anybody else notice over the past few days?

In what way?

[PantherLotus]

In what way?

[BotoxAgent]

Check mate, libruls. :smug

I can't believe this country has reached this level of stupid. It's staggering.

[Manmademan]

20K posts in the old thread already? hmm.

[PantherLotus]

I can't believe this country has reached this level of stupid. It's staggering.

The best/only response is that agreeing to a government contract (which is essentially what the Constitution is) implies agreeing that there are some things that individuals and businesses alone cannot do. Signing onto a government -- any government -- is agreeing that socialism is at least minimally required.

[The Technomancer]

Oh shit, context: Assuming you are willing to argue within our current system and not go "BAHHHH MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!!" what do you think a small employer should be able to do? Say I employ 10 people in a modest $3M revenue a year business. I want to offer my employees full health insurance, but if one of them gets cancer and hits me with a $600K bill, the business is sunk. Fortunately, this is all a moot point, since small businesses almost exclusively buy HMO products, not PPO.

His point that you bolded was actually about how an employer not offering full health coverage acts as a disincentive for people to seek employment there under the idea that people not wanting to work for you will encourage you to offer said coverage. I still hold that health coverage as a factor in choosing your employer (hah) or choosing to leave them is a terrible idea in general, and in this case its monumentally stupid because what kind of employee is going to go "hm, these guys don't cover cancer on their benefits, I'll pick from one of the other half dozen offers I have because I think its very likely I'll get cancer"?

[Manmademan]

His point that you bolded was actually about how an employer not offering full health coverage acts as a disincentive for people to seek employment there under the idea that people not wanting to work for you will encourage you to offer said coverage. I still hold that health coverage as a factor in choosing your employer (hah) or choosing to leave them is a terrible idea in general, and in this case its monumentally stupid because what kind of employee is going to go "hm, these guys don't cover cancer on their benefits, I'll pick from one of the other half dozen offers I have because I think its very likely I'll get cancer"?

it's usually not that specific.

I recently left a job that gave full health and dental at $75 a month (for a single, unmarried man). If I wanted to add my daughter it would have been $130 or so.

when interviewing for new positions, I found that benefit costs could have gone as high as $400 a month out of pocket for an individual- for worse coverage. Some companies offered health but no dental benefits. some were straight Healthcare savings accounts with hefty out of pocket costs before the insurance company pays anything at all.

Healthcare benefits isn't just minutiae on what's covered and what isn't, it's a very tangible issue that's as important as salary.

[Draft]

Some employers self-fund, meaning they pay all the bills for their employees at the rates the insurer they are contracted with hospitals, physicians, etc. For companies over a certain size (200-300 employees), this makes it cheaper in the long run, but bears risk. Smaller companies generally only buy HMO products, which are fully insured (i.e. they pay a premium to the insurer, who then bears the risk."

Almost any self funded plan would have reinsurance on large claims. Very few self funded policies would pay a $600k bill.

[Chichikov]

Mitch McConnell thinks the filthy poor have it too easy: http://dailykos.com/story/2012/06/19...share-of-taxes

Please run on that in November.