[Kosmo]

Bush used executive privilege 6 times I believe. This is the only time Obama has used it. I don't remember the media making a big deal when Bush did it, but it's been a while, and my memory is a bit foggy.

How Democrats responded to Bush using executive privilege:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG52R3U681.DTL

(HINT: Exactly how Republicans are acting now)

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., called it "an outrageous abuse of executive privilege." Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, said the position "makes a mockery of the ideal that no one is above the law."

Mark Rozell, a professor of public policy at George Mason University who has written a book on executive-privilege issues, called the administration's stance "astonishing." "That's a breathtakingly broad view of the president's role in this system of separation of powers," Rozell said. "What this statement is saying is the president's claim of executive privilege trumps all."

[brucewaynegretzky]

How Democrats responded to Bush using executive privilege: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG52R3U681.DTL (HINT: Exactly how Republicans are acting now)

From reading that article it seems Bush exercised it in a criminal context vs. Obama's congressional context. There is very different law concerning the two.

[Kapura]

I think the key word here is "by default". He isn't necessarily comfortable with the idea of all information being classified by default, but he is alright with some information being classified if its "judged to be necessary"

The only people who truly think there should be 100% transparency 100% of the time don't trust the government to ever act in the interest of the people. I don't think our government hates us.

[Measley]

From Drudge:



Its going to be a fun 5 months.

[PSFan]

The Daily Show/Colbert Report segment on this should be very interesting to watch.

[Calamari41]

I don't get what's so hard to understand about the statement "You cannot lie to Congress."

Transparency? Trust? Holder has been lying through his teeth the entire time, and you're still willing to just trust him that there's nothing that he's hiding? Good grief.

[gutter_trash]

IMO, the President should have more executive power, fuck congress stone walling

[ElectricBlue187]

IMO, the President should have more executive power, fuck congress stone walling

Yes! King Obama! To hell with democracy!

[Kapura]

Yes! King Obama! To hell with democracy!

We'd have healthcare, schools, and weed. Seems like a fair trade.

[bananas]

From Drudge: Its going to be a fun 5 months.

Oh god. It's staring into my soul.

[eznark]

We'd have healthcare, schools, and weed. Seems like a fair trade.

Someone hasn't been paying attention

[Calamari41]

IMO, the President should have more executive power, fuck congress stone walling

Who in god's name is Congress stone walling? You realize that the Justice Department is the one refusing to hand over subpoenaed documents, right?

[Matt]

How Democrats responded to Bush using executive privilege: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NG52R3U681.DTL (HINT: Exactly how Republicans are acting now)

It's not really the same at all. Issa & Co are completely abusing their powers, and it is negatively effecting the proper functioning of government. Democrats were not doing the same at that point in time.

[Kapura]

Someone hasn't been paying attention

If you think that federal raids on dispensaries is what Obama would mandate if he were king, you've not read that chooming thing.


"The point was to inhale. That was the point" - BHO

[gutter_trash]

Yes! King Obama! To hell with democracy!

if the leader is good, why not?

[The Technomancer]

if the leader is good, why not?

Because the perfect dictator doesn't exist and never will

[Calamari41]

if the leader is good, why not?

Because in five years max there will be someone new in there with the same powers. I'm sure you'd love to see what President Scott Walker would do with unlimited executive power, right?

[gutter_trash]

make the Republican party illegal.. it worked on some countries

[Kapura]

Oh, come on. Absolute power is kind of neat.

[Kapura]

make the Republican party illegal.. it worked on some countries

In which countries did outlawing a party actually "work?"

[gutter_trash]

serious note, the two party system with the lobbying joke of congress now getting candidates SuperPacked has turned democracy into a farce

[Calamari41]

It's like listening to a Kindergartener who just watched Episode 3 or something.

[remnant]

It's not about difficulty or importance of work. People are dumb. Plain and simple. The second the public gets hold of any information they actually manage to start clamoring for things that are actually AGAINST their best interests. It's absolutely mind boggling what people claim they want. At the end of the day people who have spent their lives reaching the highest levels of government need to have the flexibility to make deciisions, just like a CEO or Board of Directors would in a private corporation. That's why documents need to be kept secret sometimes. You want them to be able to at least have the conversations and throw around ideas without everything being subject to public scrutiny.

do u support any government transparency efforts? Were you against the FoI Act?

[brucewaynegretzky]

do u support any government transparency efforts? Were you against the FoI Act?

I am. I've actually dealt with FOIA at times, but there are reasonable restraints on FOIA, just like there is a reason we have executive privilege. These legal mechanisms for preventing the release of legal measures are made by reasonable people with expertise in the area.

[Tookay]

make the Republican party illegal.. it worked on some countries

I'm sure this will lead to constructive conversation.

[GaimeGuy]

It's not really the same at all. Issa & Co are completely abusing their powers, and it is negatively effecting the proper functioning of government. Democrats were not doing the same at that point in time.

What do you mean?
A democrat invokes executive privilege and republicans are outraged.
A republican invokes executive privilege and democrats are outraged.

It is CLEARLY the same thing. What the topic of discussion is and the context of the events is irrelevent.

[Gaborn]

The House panel is recommending Holder be cited with Contempt. And so it begins.

[Learn2read]

From reading that article it seems Bush exercised it in a criminal context vs. Obama's congressional context. There is very different law concerning the two.

DING DING

[Pctx]

The House panel is recommending Holder be cited with Contempt. And so it begins.

Good. I hope the guy never serves for public office again.

[brucewaynegretzky]

The House panel is recommending Holder be cited with Contempt. And so it begins.

Yay for actions with no consequences. Call me when there's an indictment.

[BruiserBear]

The thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting, due to their partisanship, is that Obama made claims about having "the most open administration in history", etc, etc. He made claims that he was different, and he wasn't going to play games like previous presidents have.


He has not lived up to that claim, and it saddens me as someone who was happy to see him get elected. Is he better than the alternative? Yes. But the alternative is terrible, so being better than terrible isn't something to be cheering about. :|

[quadriplegicjon]

The thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting, due to their partisanship, is that Obama made claims about having "the most open administration in history", etc, etc. He made claims that he was different, and he wasn't going to play games like previous presidents have. He has not lived up to that claim, and it saddens me as someone who was happy to see him get elected. Is he better than the alternative? Yes. But the alternative is terrible, so being better than terrible isn't something to be cheering about. :|

Out of curiosity, what previous administration has been more open?

[Chichikov]

Crosspost from poligaf?
Crosspost from poligaf.

It is a cover up.
Oh, but we have to take them at their word, because they know best and never wrong about anything.

And fuck the whole "the only way to have candid discussion is to do it in secret".
This was bullshit when Cheney and co. did it, and it's bullshit now.

I hope it blows in Obama's face, not because I want him to lose, but because I think the executive needs some humbling from congress.
They work for us, they have to tell us what they do in our name, otherwise, we can't evaluate them.
I can understand that there might be some sensitive information there (though I'm always doubtful of such claims), but there are people in congress with high clearance, they can make that call, not the White House.

Also, fuck Eric Holder.

[Death Dealer]

If you think that federal raids on dispensaries is what Obama would mandate if he were king, you've not read that chooming thing.

He's got the power to stop the raids now. In fact his POS attorney general told Congress they weren't raiding the dispensaries in compliance with state laws. That was a big fat lie.

Obama's past pot use just makes him more of a hypocrite.

[Matt]

The thing a lot of people seem to be forgetting, due to their partisanship, is that Obama made claims about having "the most open administration in history", etc, etc. He made claims that he was different, and he wasn't going to play games like previous presidents have.

He really has been. Most open doesn't mean completely open. That would be insane.

[ElectricBlue187]

In which countries did outlawing a party actually "work?"

It works in China!

He really has been. Most open doesn't mean completely open. That would be insane.

what, exactly, about government transparency is insane? the inability to cover up mistakes?

[Gaborn]

If you think that federal raids on dispensaries is what Obama would mandate if he were king, you've not read that chooming thing. "The point was to inhale. That was the point" - BHO

The scary thing is you seem to think that makes his increasing the rate of dispensary raids BETTER. I would say that the fact he probably wouldn't be doing it if he had absolute power makes it WORSE.

He really has been. Most open doesn't mean completely open. That would be insane.

Define "Open." For example, he's also prosecuting whistle blowers at unprecedented rates.

[eznark]

He really has been. Most open doesn't mean completely open. That would be insane.

You have to be kidding me.

[Dali]

In which countries did outlawing a party actually "work?"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...-right_parties

[eznark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Categor...-right_parties

Because GOP = Nazis amirite?

[CHEEZMO™]

Because GOP = Nazis amirite?

Taliban would be a closer comparison.

[Dark Knyght]

Haha, Obama used his executive privilege to get his hands on the exclusive F&F 6 script.

"His pockets ain't empty cuhh"

[The Lamp]

I don't know what to say. I'm pissed.

[PhoenixPause]

Report: Issa Staffer Offered To Stop Holder Contempt Vote For DOJ Scalp

Rep. Darrell Issa’s chief investigative counsel offered to stop the contempt vote against Attorney General Eric Holder in exchange for the resignation of Assistant Attorney General Lanny Breuer, Newsweek’s Dan Klaidman is reporting. Issa staffer Stephen Castor brought up the issue of “accountability” during a phone call with a senior DOJ official last week, according to the report. Castor reportedly said they could head off the contempt vote if Breuer stepped down. Breuer, who heads the Justice Department’s Criminal Division, apologized in October for not telling other Justice Department officials that guns were allowed to “walk” during the Bush administration when Congress first raised questions about Operation Fast And Furious in early 2011. Breuer said in a statement last that he “did not draw a connection between the unacceptable tactics used by the ATF years earlier in Operation Wide Receiver and the allegations made about Operation Fast and Furious, and therefore did not, at that time, alert others within Department leadership of any similarities between the two. That was a mistake, and I regret not having done so.” Emails show that Breuer was aware that the tactics were used during the Bush administration and met with ATF officials to discuss the matter. “At the time, I thought that dealing with the leadership of ATF was sufficient and reasonable, and frankly given the amount of work I do, at the time I thought that was the appropriate way of dealing with it,” Breuer testified last year. “I thought we had dealt with it by talking to the ATF leadership.” DOJ officials think the offer to drop the contempt vote in exchange for Breuer’s scalp was further evidence that Issa’s investigation was more about making headlines than determining facts. “The reason that this contempt motion happened is that Issa didn’t come up with any evidence and didn’t get a scalp,” Matthew Miller, DOJ’s former communications director, told Klaidman. “When you set expectations that high and you don’t deliver, you have to explain why.”

http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...lp.php?ref=fpa

Totally not about politics right

[Gaborn]

Report: Issa Staffer Offered To Stop Holder Contempt Vote For DOJ Scalp http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmem...lp.php?ref=fpa Totally not about politics right

Emails show that Breuer was aware that the tactics were used during the Bush administration and met with ATF officials to discuss the matter.

Seems like Breur SHOULD resign.

[Horns]

Lanny Breuer wasn't even in the DoJ when the Bush Administration was in charge. The article points out that he is a whistle blower, and that Issa's panel has voiced concerns for whistle blowers. Well, except when it comes to playing politics.

Now they want his head, which leads me to believe this was all about politics if this is all true.

[Deified Data]

Fox News and MSNBC both have weird, alternate-reality interpretations of this issue. Fox thinks it's a conspiracy meant to besmirch the second amendment by showing what happens when guns get into the wrong hands, therefore leading to stricter gun control. MSNBC seems to think that these guns were sold to banditos through regular channels, and that Obama's hands are clean of this. How do people get away with telling such blatant lies?

[Macam]

Serious as the underlying issue is, I find it tremendously hard to give a sh*t either way because the Republicans -- and Issa in particular -- are merely playing the same old scorched earth politics on the only issue of any marginal substance that they can find, while the administration is playing the same old opaque, secretive executive hand in the face of legal scrutiny, even when there were some clear shortcomings to say the least.

That said, the Republicans have proven themselves to completely untrustworthy on absolutely, every single issue of merit, so they can hold Holder in contempt if they wish (there's no seriously no love lost here). It's utterly meaningless and rich in hypocrisy but, hey, that's par for the course for them.

[CHEEZMO™]

Fox News and MSNBC both have weird, alternate-reality interpretations of this issue. Fox thinks it's a conspiracy meant to besmirch the second amendment by showing what happens when guns get into the wrong hands, therefore leading to stricter gun control. MSNBC seems to think that these guns were sold to banditos through regular channels, and that Obama's hands are clean of this. How do people get away with telling such blatant lies?

If anyone tried to stop them they'd be crucified for breaching the First Amendment.

[PhoenixPause]

Fox News and MSNBC both have weird, alternate-reality interpretations of this issue. Fox thinks it's a conspiracy meant to besmirch the second amendment by showing what happens when guns get into the wrong hands, therefore leading to stricter gun control. MSNBC seems to think that these guns were sold to banditos through regular channels, and that Obama's hands are clean of this. How do people get away with telling such blatant lies?

The anti-gun thing is actually a far right conspiracy theory that Fox and elected officials are propagating...while ignoring the fact that this program started under Bush. It's pathetic, and another example of fringe views being legitimized by people who know better.