[Mumei]

Precisely, yet without a set of immutable traits the word would cease to be meaningful (though one could argue that it's already meaningless). This reminds me a bit of the "What does it mean to be a man?"-thread sometime ago, if there are no "requirements" of being a "man", then what point is there in calling oneself a man (in a non-biological sense that is)? What I've noticed is that even if there is no strict definition at hand, one draw upon the historical/present connotations to words such as "feminine"/"masculine"/"man"/"woman"; the positive ones for some situations, such as when describing oneself or someone else, and the negative ones for others, when you're using the terms to put someone down - "Women are unlike men Z, and they are thus not suited for X" Pretty much my thoughts on the matter, if there was some universal definition or some intrinsic element to the words then I probably wouldn't have any issues with them.

I wouldn't say that it is meaningless simply because there is very little that is immutable about it; just that the meaning changes based on the context. As Dev mentioned, "Feminine" and "masculine" mean different things in different times and places - but they still defined what meant to be male or female in those times and places, even if those things were contingent.

But I do think that it is good to be aware that those things don't actually represent anything more than socially-created labels. When people aren't aware of that and think that those definitions of masculinity and femininity describe something intrinsic about maleness or femaleness, the sort of sex role theory nonsense that you were talking about happens.

Given the variety of gender constructions and ways of defining masculinity / femininity, I don't think it could be any different.

I don't mean to intrude, but I don't get the title.

Explained in the OP!

Edit: *shakes fist* Totally would have responded first if it weren't for the above!

[Ashes1396]

I know that. I meant you gals chose bill for the girls thread. The rest of the op reads different to the title that's all. Didn't get why devo, or someone else, wouldn't have picked Sylvia Plath or equivalent.



edit: Yeah, I've been reading Sylvia Plath lately. But you could have picked any of the great female writers I guess. There are plenty of them.

edit: Anyway, enjoy your thread I'm out.

[Professor Beef]

Edit: *shakes fist* Totally would have responded first if it weren't for the above!

[Devolution]

I know that. I meant you gals chose bill for the girls thread. The rest of the op reads different to the title that's all. Didn't get why devo, or someone else, wouldn't have picked Sylvia Plath or equivalent. edit: Yeah, I've been reading Sylvia Plath lately. But you could have picked any of the great female writers I guess. There are plenty of them. edit: Anyway, enjoy your thread I'm out.

Do you realize the title is a pun? Because that's not the original quote.

[Ashes1396]

I - never mind. My bad.

Edit: I nearly forgot why I came back again. We actually have a poetry thread on gaf, and if you guys/girls wanted to enter this week's challenge, here is the link. You only have a few hours left though. Alright, enjoy your thread and all that.

Ps. Tangent, in the creative writing thread, might be worth a pm to let her know this thread exists. She has x number of posts, and they're all in the writing threads. She's been a jnr forever it seems like. :p

[Prax]

Oh yay! New thread! Nice.
I saw the lock when I was checking out my subscriptions and wondered if something crazy went down. xD

On the subject of children and women and social pressure..

My cousin really didn't want to have a baby. She had a feeling she wouldn't be cut out for raising and caring for a selfish child, as she acknowledges that she herself is selfish and didn't want to give that up to a slobby kid. XD
However, she felt pressured by her family (especially her mom who has.. .. very whacked out views on womanhood and motherhood) and husband (kind of traditional guy) into having one, and partially from curiosity, so.. she eventually resigned to doing it.

So she had the baby and he's been driving her up the wall since he happens to be one of the fussier kinds that never sleeps for more than an hour and always cries.. She's kind of regretting it all now and cannot fathom having to do this again. Even her husband is now realizing how much this sucks.. yet he wants to have another one down the road so the two kids could "entertain each other" and not bug either of them.

This sounds like such a bad reason to have kids. xD

But yeah, it's still considered pretty strange or rebellious for a woman to not want to have kids. Like it would be a shortfall of them and make them less of a woman since they are unable to go through all those rites of passage of womanhood (e.g. daughter => wife => mother => grandmother).
I like kids, and I want them eventually, but I really don't see the point of people needing to have one if they don't want to or if it doesn't suit their life. But yeah.. being raised in a traditional family or in a very tradition-focused culture really puts a damper on leading the life you want to.

[CleverGirl]

So I was actually gonna ask in the old thread today, but new thread. My wife and I were both raised mormons, where essentially your whole life is about getting married and having kids. So in the society we grew up in and largely still inhabit it is considered very strange to see a woman that doesn't want kids. You can't ask guys, most just don't care. But how do women of our generation view it? As more women don't want kids is that generally accepted? Or is it looked at a little strange? And what about the opposite women that want a lot of kids. Are they looked at strangely now?

While I think that it is more accepted now if a woman says that she doesn't want children, she is still more likely to be called selfish for it than her boyfriend. I also get the feeling that a woman has to do way more with her life, really have something to show for it if she doesn't have kids, kind of as a way to compensate. Its like people will think "Oh she doesn't have any kids why does she still have such a crappy job? What is she doing with her time?" On the other hand I do think that women who express an interest in having many children are thought of as strange.

On a different note I saw this article on the Mary Sue, and now I can't wait to buy this toy for my cousin! She loves dolls and she loves electricity. http://www.themarysue.com/roominate-...rl-scientists/

[Femmeworth]

I liked the logo so much that I added it to my avatar. :3

[Emitan]

I liked the logo so much that I added it to my avatar. :3

But now everyone will know and stalk you O:

[Femmeworth]

But now everyone will know and stalk you O:

If they know where it is from, they are probably already stalking us!

[Professor Beef]

Hi lurkers, both registered and awaiting approval!

[SquiddyCracker]

So she had the baby and he's been driving her up the wall since he happens to be one of the fussier kinds that never sleeps for more than an hour and always cries.. She's kind of regretting it all now and cannot fathom having to do this again. Even her husband is now realizing how much this sucks.. yet he wants to have another one down the road so the two kids could "entertain each other" and not bug either of them. This sounds like such a bad reason to have kids. xD

I love how he thinks it's a good idea to get another one when the first one didn't work out so well, then again, he's not the one who have to go through the pregnancy :p

[shanshan310]

I've been having a lot of trouble with stockings recently. I prefer wearing skirts over pants, so when it gets cool stockings are a must. Except, all the pairs I've bought recently have split within the first use, and it is so damn annoying. The more expensive pairs tend to last a little longer, but they tend to get little balls on them. My mother was saying that in her day, stockings were regarded as single use. Anyway, its very frustrating, and I wonder if anyone else has the same love/hate relationship with stockings or has any advice ><

[Salazar]

It actually is getting kind of cold, Shan. But wintery clothes are awesome.

edit: Yeah, I've been reading Sylvia Plath lately.

Read Ted.

[shanshan310]

It actually is getting kind of cold, Shan. But wintery clothes are awesome.

They are awesome. I get to wear my trench coat! I just wish my stocking would stop getting ripped ;.;

[Ashes1396]

Does anybody read Plath before Hughes these days? :/

I was reading up on Hughes bio, whilst reading Plath, I didn't know that not only did Plath leave of her own will, the woman, Hughes left her for, also past away in the same manner.

[Salazar]

Trenchcoat. Sigh. A gap in my coat repertoire.

[shanshan310]

Trenchcoat. Sigh. A gap in my coat repertoire.

End of financial year sales are on~

[Salazar]

End of finacial year sales are on~

I am still forlornly hoping that I will be moving :(

[shanshan310]

I am still forlornly hoping that I will be moving :(

I think you should move either way, but if you don't at least you will be fashionable and warm.

[BladeWorker]

I've been having a lot of trouble with stockings recently. I prefer wearing skirts over pants, so when it gets cool stockings are a must. Except, all the pairs I've bought recently have split within the first use, and it is so damn annoying. The more expensive pairs tend to last a little longer, but they tend to get little balls on them. My mother was saying that in her day, stockings were regarded as single use. Anyway, its very frustrating, and I wonder if anyone else has the same love/hate relationship with stockings or has any advice ><

Yes. The higher the thread count, the longer they last - the cheap, super-sheer ones will only last me one (maybe two, if I'm lucky) uses; the better ones I can swing four or five uses out of them before one of my toes, or a stray pebble or my cuticles take 'em out.

It's also important to get hose where your height/weight range is in the middle-to-low end of the product's specifications. Pushing the limit on hose almost always results in premature runs.

[Emitan]

They are awesome. I get to wear my trench coat! I just wish my stocking would stop getting ripped ;.;

Are you a detective? A trench coat is the defining characteristic of a detective! Besides that whole "solving mysteries" thing...

[Mumei]

Forbes: Top 100 Websites for Women

I'm sure there will be some new stuff to someone!

[The Anti-Monitor]

Sharp Skirts made me think of Sharp Knees. And no pron what the hell.

Also shanshan, I like stockings but I don't really have THAT much of a problem. Could you give a little more detail?

[Emitan]

Forbes: Top 100 Websites for Women I'm sure there will be some new stuff to someone!

NeoGAF had better be on here because its the only site I visit ._.

[Lissar]

Are you a detective? A trench coat is the defining characteristic of a detective! Besides that whole "solving mysteries" thing...

I wore a trench coat!

When I was 14.

*one of those nerds*

[Platy]

I've asked a couple of female acquaintances the following and am wondering what girlgaf thinks: Do you reckon there are certain traits to femininity that are integral to the very meaning of the term? And is femininity itself an integral part of a "woman"?

This image posted on another thread really helps here I guess

Just an image I saw on facebook I thought might be useful to some:

The femininity you talk looks to be the "expression" one ... and yes, you can be a binary women and still have a masculine gender expression and that don't make you any less of a women.

But this is not exactly how our society sees it, unfortunatly

[Inanna]

I've been having a lot of trouble with stockings recently. I prefer wearing skirts over pants, so when it gets cool stockings are a must. Except, all the pairs I've bought recently have split within the first use, and it is so damn annoying. The more expensive pairs tend to last a little longer, but they tend to get little balls on them. My mother was saying that in her day, stockings were regarded as single use. Anyway, its very frustrating, and I wonder if anyone else has the same love/hate relationship with stockings or has any advice ><

Not an advice but I wear tights/leggings under skirts because it gets really cold here in the UK.

[Leeness]

Lucky ladies and their skirts! :(

[Lissar]

Can't wear skirts, Leeness? :o

[Leeness]

Nah. I have short little legs so they look really awkward on me.

Also, not toned at all yet haha. Both factors = nope!

[kisaya]

When fall comes around I'm gonna rock some short skirts + stockings/tights B) Always wanted to try out the look.

[Lissar]

I have long legs so I think short skirts look pretty uh... well, they don't work for my personality I'll just say that. Short skirts on short girls are super adorable though. I wear mostly mid-length and long skirts. Of course with long skirts my thigh high socks don't show, so that's disappointing.

I wish I could wear pants too, but my hips are a little wide (not TOO wide, only 10" difference between waist and hip) but it's enough to make problems when I'm wearing pants. It's going to have trouble fitting somewhere. That's one reason I kind of gave up on them. :/

[Leeness]

I have long legs so I think short skirts look pretty uh... well, they don't work for my personality I'll just say that. Short skirts on short girls are super adorable though. I wear mostly mid-length and long skirts. Of course with long skirts my thigh high socks don't show, so that's disappointing. I wish I could wear pants too, but my hips are a little wide (not TOO wide, only 10" difference between waist and hip) but it's enough to make problems when I'm wearing pants. It's going to have trouble fitting somewhere. That's one reason I kind of gave up on them. :/

Haha well, pants are kind of the same. I need short people pants haha. Which there aren't too many of, that I've seen, so I get normal pants and they drag and the cuffs die almost immediately haha.

Women's clothes in general suck. Haha.

But yeah...maybe skirts someday, but my thighs are too jiggly right now haha. I also just look awkward in general. But I think I always look awkward so...Oop.

[Lissar]

It's okay, I feel like I look awkward too most of the time. The key is to not let it get you down and stand up straight and tall. Sometimes, you just have to own your awkwardness.

My mom is around 5'3" so having too long pants is an issue for her as well. I mean, I guess you can pin it (I could probably pin pants to fix my problem too) but it's not a real fix. I guess that's the problem with mass produced clothing. :/ They go for fitting everyone a little bit then fitting a particular person perfectly. I should learn to make my own pants.

[Leeness]

It's okay, I feel like I look awkward too most of the time. The key is to not let it get you down and stand up straight and tall. Sometimes, you just have to own your awkwardness. My mom is around 5'3" so having too long pants is an issue for her as well. I mean, I guess you can pin it (I could probably pin pants to fix my problem too) but it's not a real fix. I guess that's the problem with mass produced clothing. :/ They go for fitting everyone a little bit then fitting a particular person perfectly. I should learn to make my own pants.

Yeah, mass produced clothing suuuuck. I wish I could sew with any finesse haha.

[Emitan]

Haha well, pants are kind of the same. I need short people pants haha. Which there aren't too many of, that I've seen, so I get normal pants and they drag and the cuffs die almost immediately haha. Women's clothes in general suck. Haha. But yeah...maybe skirts someday, but my thighs are too jiggly right now haha. I also just look awkward in general. But I think I always look awkward so...Oop.

Boy clothes are easy! You just won't look that great in them I guess. They're just blah.

[Leeness]

Boy clothes are easy! You just won't look that great in them I guess. They're just blah.

Haha I have issues with tops and bottoms :( I should just wear boy clothes haha.

[kisaya]

There needs to be more clothing for petite girls :(

[Emitan]

There needs to be more clothing for petite girls :(

Is there clothing for giants? I'm 6 feet!

[The Anti-Monitor]

Haha I have issues with tops and bottoms :( I should just wear boy clothes haha.

Which is not a problem, since they look good in a tomboyish way. One point for us, we can wear male clothes and look great but the same doesn't happen in reverse. /swag

[Lissar]

I remember seeing a lot of petite stuff out there, but I also remember it being mostly stuff designed for middle aged ladies. Is that true? :o Fortunately my height has been one thing that's never caused me any issues (except in Japan. Move to Japan? :D)

[Emitan]

Which is not a problem, since they look good in a tomboyish way. One point for us, we can wear male clothes and look great but the same doesn't happen in reverse. /swag

;~;

[Inanna]

I'd never be caught dead wearing men clothes! Except in bed, I love sleeping in guy clothes. I don't like how boy clothes look on me otherwise. I love skirts, summer dresses and maxis especially in summer, in winter jeans, coates/bazers/jackets and colourful tops. :D

[Kazerei]

Heh, I'm such a tomboy, about half my wardrobe is men's clothing. Probably because I prefer slightly loose-fitting clothes to form-fitting ones.

And is it just me, or does it seem like the material for women's t-shirts is thinner than for men's t-shirts? I hate that. Makes me feel like I'm buying something cheap.

[shanshan310]

It's probably because it is cheaper and not meant to last as long. -_-

I remember seeing a lot of petite stuff out there, but I also remember it being mostly stuff designed for middle aged ladies. Is that true? :o Fortunately my height has been one thing that's never caused me any issues (except in Japan. Move to Japan? :D)

Lol, this is actually a really good solution for shorter girls. Japan was like heaven for me. I think almost half of my wardrobe is Japanese/ Korean. You can find them fairly cheap online too.

Haha well, pants are kind of the same. I need short people pants haha. Which there aren't too many of, that I've seen, so I get normal pants and they drag and the cuffs die almost immediately haha. Women's clothes in general suck. Haha. But yeah...maybe skirts someday, but my thighs are too jiggly right now haha. I also just look awkward in general. But I think I always look awkward so...Oop.

;.; If I buy jeans I have to sew the bottoms up... though I suppose it's better than having to buy pants with a really wide waist in order to fit your long legs. If you wear even slightly healed shoes it can make your legs look longer.

Boy clothes are easy! You just won't look that great in them I guess. They're just blah.

There are some guy looks I'd love to be able to pull off. A tie with a button up shirt, for example.

[Emitan]

There are some guy looks I'd love to be able to pull off. A tie with a button up shirt, for example.

I'd rather have girls looks ;)

[shanshan310]

I'd rather have girls looks ;)

Me too :p I'm sure you can buy clothing for tall girls pretty easily. I mean, most models are around 6 feet.
but still, ties are pretty great. I miss wearing my high school uniform..

[Emitan]

One of my homecoming dates wore a tie for me. I love girls in ties!

And Australian accents. Oh no, shan.

[shanshan310]

One of my homecoming dates wore a tie for me. I love girls in ties! And Australian accents. Oh no, shan.

You can have my accent If you like :p every time I open my mouth it sounds like someone stood on a cat.