[Masoria]

Never tried them. Likely never will. I avoid medication unless absolutely necessary.

When I was a teenager, I couldn't sleep at night because my mind was going a mile a minute. But since having kids, I'm too tired for that. Ha.

[icarus-daedelus]

How does GirlGAF feel about sleeping pills?

How does BoyGAF feel about sleeping pills?

[Devolution]

How does BoyGAF feel about sleeping pills?

Seriously what an odd question.

[Platy]

How does GirlGAF feel about sleeping pills?

If you force then on people it is ilegal and usualy means you are a rapist

[Devolution]

I was thinking of making a thread but how do you guys feel about the messages sent to young kids, girls especially from fairy tales and disney movies and the like? I personally am not a fan.
I feel like they setbad expectations at an early age. I'd rather kids be taught more lessons about self-respect and common decency than "finding the one" or "and they lived happily ever after." I'm not saying children have to be subjected to grim reality right away, since fairy tales are supposed to be uplifting, but I find the overall messages repeated ad nauseam to just set the ground work for disappointment and an inability to deal with the reality of relationships and life.

I think stuff like this is way better heh but I was a twisted child

[Emitan]

I don't really remember anything about that book but I know I loved it. And some book about a baby bat.

[Lissar]

Fairy tales are the least uplifting thing. I can understand your point about the Disney versions, but fairy tales in general? No.

*reads her non-existant child the story of Bluebeard*

[Femmeworth]

I was thinking of making a thread but how do you guys feel about the messages sent to young kids, girls especially from fairy tales and disney movies and the like? I personally am not a fan. I feel like they setbad expectations at an early age. I'd rather kids be taught more lessons about self-respect and common decency than "finding the one" or "and they lived happily ever after." I'm not saying children have to be subjected to grim reality right away, since fairy tales are supposed to be uplifting, but I find the overall messages repeated ad nauseam to just set the ground work for disappointment and an inability to deal with the reality of relationships and life. I think stuff like this is way better heh but I was a twisted child [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/BBPpk.jpg[/IMG

I felt like doing the same thing after watching Brave. From what I understand, the original versions of a lot of the popular fairy tales are much, much better than the ones propagated by the Brothers Grimm and Disney. I loathe the Disney princesses.

[Kazerei]

I think Disney has done a good job in recent years of creating strong female characters. There's still plenty of stereotyping, but at least the Disney "princesses" aren't completely useless.

[Devolution]

I felt like doing the same thing after watching Brave. From what I understand, the original versions of a lot of the popular fairy tales are much, much better than the ones propagated by the Brothers Grimm and Disney. I loathe the Disney princesses.

Stuff like Beauty and the Beast was a tale to make French pre-pubescent girls in the 1700s bourgeoisie feel better about marrying old ass farts when they hit 14/15/16.

[Platy]

I was thinking of making a thread but how do you guys feel about the messages sent to young kids, girls especially from fairy tales and disney movies and the like? I personally am not a fan. I feel like they setbad expectations at an early age. I'd rather kids be taught more lessons about self-respect and common decency than "finding the one" or "and they lived happily ever after." I'm not saying children have to be subjected to grim reality right away, since fairy tales are supposed to be uplifting, but I find the overall messages repeated ad nauseam to just set the ground work for disappointment and an inability to deal with the reality of relationships and life.

Didn't saw the book ... don't think there is a version on portuguese.

I think most could be worst, but yes, the message that you only be happy if you find a perfect man is very twisted.

Bu you have to remember that disney has movies like Robin Hood where the princess Kick Ass, Mulan where the main goal of the princess is kicking ass in the name of china and Fairy tales have .. well .. non princess fairy tales =P

But yeah, Little Mermaid and Sleeping Beauty are the worst ofenders, i guess

[Femmeworth]

I think Disney has done a good job in recent years of creating strong female characters. There's still plenty of stereotyping, but at least the Disney "princesses" aren't completely useless.

They are better, sure, but there is still a ways to go. Pixar is much better.

Stuff like Beauty and the Beast was a tale to make French pre-pubescent girls in the 1700s bourgeoisie feel better about marrying old ass farts when they hit 14/15/16.

Well, maybe not that particular one.

[Kazerei]

But yeah, Little Mermaid and Sleeping Beauty are the worst ofenders, i guess

Cinderella and Snow White, too. All of them are useless and need to be saved by a prince.

[Mully]

How does BoyGAF feel about sleeping pills?

They're good. I had to take one last night and was feeling pretty mellow.

Seriously what an odd question.

If you force then on people it is ilegal and usualy means you are a rapist

I was not implying that I was going to use them on women....

[Masoria]

I tried reading the Stinky Cheese Man to my kids, but they're still a bit young for it.

The thing is, if the kids have good role models and discussions about the movies, there really shouldn't be too much harm. It's fantasy, and fairly similar to the videogame/violence thing. Normal, healthy kids won't have negative reactions. They know the difference between fantasy and reality and can work it out.

I do like the Barbie movies for the most part, though, and talk with my girls about why. They have strong female leads who don't always end up with a guy at the end.

[Devolution]

They're good. I had to take one last night and was feeling pretty mellow. I was not implying that I was going to use them on women....

I didn't think that, just found the question out of the blue. Like "how do you feel about Tums" or something.

[Professor Beef]

I didn't think that, just found the question out of the blue. Like "how do you feel about Tums" or something.

Ugh, Tums are awful.

[fireside]

I was thinking a couple days ago how poor the Disney princesses are as role models. The motivations for most is ‘gotta get me a man’, which is a pretty crappy message to send.

This is a nice (old) article about the Disney Princesses. It doesn’t really come to any conclusions and it doesn’t really provide any answers, but I found it interesting nevertheless.

[Devolution]

I was thinking a couple days ago how poor the Disney princesses are as role models. The motivations for most is ‘gotta get me a man’, which is a pretty crappy message to send. This is a nice (old) article about the Disney Princesses. It doesn’t really come to any conclusions and it doesn’t really provide any answers, but I found it interesting nevertheless.

Cue the incessant whining I hear from certain people about how "women act like princesses." Well what message are they sent as girls?

[Femmeworth]

I was thinking a couple days ago how poor the Disney princesses are as role models. The motivations for most is ‘gotta get me a man’, which is a pretty crappy message to send. This is a nice (old) article about the Disney Princesses. It doesn’t really come to any conclusions and it doesn’t really provide any answers, but I found it interesting nevertheless.

I read that article the other day, very interesting particularly the origins of the Princess brand.

Cue the incessant whining I hear from certain people about how "women act like princesses." Well what message are they sent as girls?

I hate that so much. :|

If I have children, I will probably push them more towards Ghibli and Pixar rather than Disney.

[FyreWulff]

I think if I have a daughter, I'll be sure to have them read the books by Mari Sandoz. Strong female in a book and it's non-fiction. Her dad was a total asshole.

In one of the years as she grew up, her dad just dropped her and brother off on one of their other farm plots and basically said "see you in a few months". At like, 12.

[icarus-daedelus]

Ooh, ooh, I dig fairy tales. Straightforward, subversive, allegorical, modernized, whatever.

Bu you have to remember that disney has movies like Robin Hood where the princess Kick Ass, Mulan where the main goal of the princess is kicking ass in the name of china and Fairy tales have .. well .. non princess fairy tales =P

Mulan is not a princess no matter how hard Disney tries to shove her into that marketing line. There's a really funny/sad & telling excerpt from that NYT article on this:

It is also worth noting that not all of the ladies are of royal extraction. Part of the genius of “Princess” is that its meaning is so broadly constructed that it actually has no meaning...Likewise, Mulan and Pocahontas, arguably the most resourceful of the bunch, are rarely depicted on Princess merchandise, though for a different reason. Their rustic garb has less bling potential than that of old-school heroines like Sleeping Beauty. (When Mulan does appear, she is typically in the kimonolike hanfu, which makes her miserable in the movie, rather than her liberated warrior’s gear.)

So basically in order to make her a marketable character, they ignore that the whole point of the movie is that she's rebelling against constrictive gender roles in her society. e_e

They are better, sure, but there is still a ways to go. Pixar is much better.

Pixar does them one better by barely featuring any female characters at all, sure, outside of Brave, which seemed like a concerted effort to combat the complaint that they barely feature female characters in their films. (TBF, I haven't actually seen it.) Though, I guess that's better than stuffing them with airhead eye candy types.

I felt like doing the same thing after watching Brave. From what I understand, the original versions of a lot of the popular fairy tales are much, much better than the ones propagated by the Brothers Grimm and Disney. I loathe the Disney princesses.

I have a collection of Italian fairy tales in which Sleeping Beauty is out-and-out raped in her sleep by her future beau, with whom she has a couple of children. "The Disney version" is usually significantly tamed down, for better or worse.

I've never heard of fairy tales that were particularly pleasant. Like other types of myths and legends they're usually pretty gruesome in telling. Do you mean that pre-Renaissance European legends had better treatment of female characters? Because I highly, highly doubt that.

Cue the incessant whining I hear from certain people about how "women act like princesses." Well what message are they sent as girls?

That girls must either be princesses or witches, of course...

[Femmeworth]

Pixar does them one better by barely featuring any female characters at all, sure, outside of Brave, which seemed like a concerted effort to combat the complaint that they barely feature female characters in their films. (TBF, I haven't actually seen it.) Though, I guess that's better than stuffing them with airhead eye candy types.

You are forgetting The Incredibles. :<

I've never heard of fairy tales that were particularly pleasant. Like other types of myths and legends they're usually pretty gruesome in telling. Do you mean that pre-Renaissance European legends had better treatment of female characters? Because I highly, highly doubt that.

I'm trying to find this blog article I read.

[Emitan]

You are forgetting The Incredibles. :<

It's my favorite movie!

[Masoria]

The women in the Incredibles were strong/brave, but they weren't the main characters and they still depended on the men, though. I mean, Violet was able to use her powers to be confident enough to talk to the boy she likes

[Femmeworth]

The women in the Incredibles were strong/brave, but they weren't the main characters and they still depended on the men, though. I mean, Violet was able to use her powers to be confident enough to talk to the boy she likes

When you phrase it like that it of course it doesn't sound good. >_> Okay it's not perfect, but I thought Elastigirl/Mrs. Incredible was great.

[Emitan]

The women in the Incredibles were strong/brave, but they weren't the main characters and they still depended on the men, though. I mean, Violet was able to use her powers to be confident enough to talk to the boy she likes

If I remember right she gains self confidence because of her adventure and then the guy nervously approaches her.

[Masoria]

I was being sarcastic heh. Pretty much anything can have a bad spin when you look at it in the "right" light.

[Femmeworth]

Pixar isn't incredibly feminist or progressive in general, but I consider them to generally be a huge improvement over Disney and their competitors. Brave, while being another step in the right direction, showed they (and the rest of the industry) still have a ways to go.

[Platy]

The women in the Incredibles were strong/brave, but they weren't the main characters and they still depended on the men, though. I mean, Violet was able to use her powers to be confident enough to talk to the boy she likes

EVA > Incredibles girls

Mulan is not a princess no matter how hard Disney tries to shove her into that marketing line. There's a really funny/sad & telling excerpt from that NYT article on this: So basically in order to make her a marketable character, they ignore that the whole point of the movie is that she's rebelling against constrictive gender roles in her society. e_e

That is kinda awesome in the wrong way, since it makes people love the character throgh the marketing and THEN see the movie and like an awesome character

[Femmeworth]

EVA > Incredibles girls

EVA?

[Emitan]

Evangelion?

[Platy]

EVA?

Evangelion?

Damn you translated names ><

[Emitan]

Damn you translated names ><

I haven't seen a Pixar film in years.

[Femmeworth]

Damn you translated names ><

I just watched Wall-E the other day. Can't say I'm too fond of the way gender was handled in that. Then again, I can't say I'm fond of how anything in that film was handled, beside the music and visuals. Andrew Stanton is less progressive/competent than Brad Bird, to say the least.

[Devolution]

It's ridiculous how much alcohol I can down while it's that time of the month. I don't get hangovers neither. Just the normal shitty period feel. It's like my body is all "no time for hangover too busy cramping up!"

[The Anti-Monitor]

So another comment for Shan's hot dudes.

I like Pixar movies and a lot of Disney, suck it.

And Devo seems that's the period (lol geddit) that you have the most fun.

[Devolution]

So another comment for Shan's hot dudes. I like Pixar movies and a lot of Disney, suck it. And Devo seems that's the period (lol geddit) that you have the most fun.

God I was so drunk last night no idea why I posted that.

[Femmeworth]

God I was so drunk last night no idea why I posted that.

Devo, I think we need to have a talk about your drinking problem.

[The Anti-Monitor]

Devo, I think we need to have a talk about your drinking problem.

"Problem"?

[Professor Beef]

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/ibmGF9NV3Xadx4.png[/IG] Devo, I think we need to have a talk about your drinking problem.

The only problem is that there wasn't enough to drink, mirite?

[Femmeworth]

So many interventions to do, so little time. *sigh*

[Fiction]

Hey, I found GirlGaf. I'm sorta new here, but I figured I'd drop by and say howdy.

[spacerumsfield]

If I have a girl I will excitedly await the day it is appropriate to introduce her to Ellen Ripley.

[shanshan310]

So another comment for Shan's hot dudes. I like Pixar movies and a lot of Disney, suck it.

heheheh, I still haven't seen any spanish guys >.>

I am also a disney fan, though I never saw some of the princess movies (Cinderella/ sleeping beauty). I guess I found the romantic aspects of the films kinda boring, even though I was a huge fan of snow white for example.

[The Anti-Monitor]

heheheh, I still haven't seen any spanish guys >.> I am also a disney fan, though I never saw some of the princess movies (Cinderella/ sleeping beauty). I guess I found the romantic aspects of the films kinda boring, even though I was a huge fan of snow white for example.

The Disney movies I didn't watch when younger I watched them recently because my friends do like them. Sleeping Beauty was cool. Dragons and shit.


And finding pics of the football team dressing up like a swimming team is proving to be harder than I wanted.

[suzu]

I liked most of the Disney princess movies I watched as a kid. lol. I was also a huge tomboy...

Hey, I found GirlGaf. I'm sorta new here, but I figured I'd drop by and say howdy.

Heya :)

[CleverGirl]

I don't think Disney can be blamed for making fragile princess movies in the early days. They were adapting fairy tales, which put women in fragile, subservient roles. When Disney started there hadn't been a culture shift pushing for strong heroines. What they can be blamed for is waiting so long to reformat their movies to include strong heroines. They are stubbornly sticking to an ultra girly formula, at least when it comes to merchandising.

I still maintain that the Sex and the City movies are more damaging than every Disney movie. We know that Disney movies are princessy but Sex and the City is supposed to be empowering.

[Brian Griffin]

Were any of you read Dr. Seuss books when you were little? My wife and I are having a girl at the end of September and I fully intend on reading all of them to her as much as I can, but there aren't many (any?) of them with girls as major characters that I remember. The messages of the books are great so I'm hoping this won't dissuade her from enjoying them as she gets older.

On the topic of Disney movies, my wife has been saying she wants to start building a collection of all the classics, princesses and all. :/

[Satch]

Hey, I found GirlGaf. I'm sorta new here, but I figured I'd drop by and say howdy.

welcome