[EmCeeGramr]

"Evolutionary equals" is a downright meaningless concept by someone whose most up to date knowledge of evolution is the image depicting the ascent of man from ape. It's the same flawed thinking as that awful line that Harbinger could spout in ME2 where he calls turians "too primitive."

[Tony Redgrave]

create AI to protect them from ai (make a bomb to stop a bomb)

Reapers are not A.I.'s they're hybrids, and more importantly they are bound to the cycle, assuring they will not do anything but fulfill their role.

conflict never stops, it'll end up wiping out all organics

Organic evolution is slow and limited, synthetic evolution is infinite and fast, eventually a powerful enough A.I. would wipe all organic life.

to prevent life from being destroyed, they reaperized (essentially killed any sense of individuality) their creators (and possibly the rest advanced species), destroyed all ai and hung around in case any other races wanted to make ai.

It's not like that exactly, they set up a trap so they would know when spacefaring civilzations (advanced enough to build A.I.) would arise, and then they cut it short before the chaos even starts, it's crude but effective.

ends up bypassing their original instructions because they call it "preserving" even though being melted down into goo is pretty much murder, not evolution.

It's that or completely wiping them out, it tells you they tried synthesis before to no avail, so the cycle was it's only remaining solution.

[Bisnic]

You did. There's one scene right before MS. It's a really weird scene.

Weird? The only weird part is Harbinger ignoring the Normandy, other than that it's a really emotional one if you bring your LI with you.

[Captain Ganz]

Looks like many of you don't understand synthesis? Synthetics don't get more circuits. They gain understanding, which was the one thing they were lacking. As for the others, diversity still exists. They're still all different races with different traits to them, but they are all evolutionary equal now.

Considering that synthesis forces these change upon them based on nothing more than your opinion that an assimilated Borg collective life would end all war, I'd say you were a crazy person that just commited the single most disgusting war crime in the history of the universe.

[Tess3ract]

It's that or completely wiping them out, it tells you they tried synthesis before to no avail, so the cycle was it's only remaining solution.

Huh?

No they said they wanted to try it, but were unable to so they just went with the cycle

[GuitarAtomik]

I feel dumb because I don't get the Marauder Shields reference everyone is always bringing up.

[Tony Redgrave]

Huh? No they said they wanted to try it, but were unable to so they just went with the cycle

They say they tried it but they couldn't do it because it can't be forced, organics must be "prepared" and they weren't in the past. it's still pretty vague.

[Tess3ract]

I feel dumb because I don't get the Marauder Shields reference everyone is always bringing up.

[Patryn]

I feel dumb because I don't get the Marauder Shields reference everyone is always bringing up.

He's the final boss of the game.

[Gui_PT]

Considering that synthesis forces these change upon them based on nothing more than your opinion that an assimilated Borg collective life would end all war, I'd say you were a crazy person that just commited the single most disgusting war crime in the history of the universe.

But I didn't mention war or conflict so that post doesn't really say anything about me

Edit: This has nothing to do with Borg assimilation so I guess you don't understand what happens

[heliosRAzi]

Reapers are not A.I.'s they're hybrids, and more importantly they are bound to the cycle, assuring they will not do anything but fulfill their role.

They are AI, not hybrids. And they are not bound to the cycle: the Leviathan of Dis proved that.

Otganic evolution is slow and limited, synthetic evolution is infinite and fast, eventually a powerful enough A.I. would wipe all organic life.

There is absolutely no evidence that synthetics will wipe out all organic life. We have the geth who just want to be left alone. We have EDI who likes being part of the crew. What evidence does the Catalyst have? Nothing. If BW had shown instead of told that synthetics would wipe out all organic life and didn't even bring up the problem in the last few moments of the final game, we probably wouldn't have much of a problem. As it stands, there's no reason to believe that claim when we have cooperating synthetics by our sides.


Besides, the galaxy is a pretty huge place: it'll be tough to wipe out every single organism in the galaxy.

[Sajuuk]

i choose destroy
if the writers wanted to to show how flawed the catalyst logic is it would have nice to have EDI/legion shoot the damm tube instead of you.

[R_thanatos]

I disagree. It had to start somewhere, and the species are explicitly in the Reapers themselves. From what it said to me, it indicates that it was just a badly designed AI that saw destroying its creators as the best way to preserve life. In fact, it's a pretty cliche concept in sci-fi. As for adapting, it says it can't. It needs you to pick, and it's been doing this cycle forever, never once really analyzing whether there's a better way. You forgot: 5. Allow those "preserved" species to be the frontline fighters in the elimination of later species, thus opening them up to be destroyed, thus allowing a species to finally and totally go extinct! That's what I call preserving. It's totally a wacked-out AI.

I'm talking about the "star child" not the reapers ..Star child , the way i see it is a collective of minds of each civilisation that compose the reapers, similar to how legion is multiples minds in one body.

He can adapt .. that's why he gave you choices. He finally found someone ( you ) that give him more options ..it didn't happen before.. You can't tell me that he never realised that there is another way by himself when he reached those possible conclusions first before asking you to make the "final" choice

Didn't Shepard manage to make peace between the geth and quarians? Well, at least my Shepard did. Shepard >> Starchild! Starchild, IMO, was a rogue AI no more plausible than any other crazy AI.

At least as broken as you think he is ..he was smart enough to see that someone ( your shepard ) could do things differently and gave you means to do so .

[Tess3ract]

WOULD BUY

[GuitarAtomik]

[IMG][/IMG]

lol ok. I was avoiding the shit out of any ME3 discussions/references until I beat the game so I'm not surprised I missed that.

[Patryn]

I'm talking about the "star child" not the reapers ..Star child , the way i see it is a collective of minds of each civilisation that compose the reapers, similar to how legion is multiples minds in one body. He can adapt .. that's why he gave you choices. He finally found someone ( you ) that give him more options ..it didn't happen before.. You can't tell me that he never realised that there is another way by himself when he reached those possible conclusions first before asking you to make the "final" choice

The Star Child predates the Reapers. He says he was created by a species. This is BEFORE the Reapers mind you. Then he reaperized his creators, against their will.

So... if he's the collective minds of the Reapers, how did he make that first Reaper, against a species' will?

[heliosRAzi]

The Star Child predates the Reapers. He says he was created by a species. This is BEFORE the Reapers mind you. Then he reaperized his creators, against their will. So... if he's the collective minds of the Reapers, how did he make that first Reaper, against a species' will?

Copious amounts of conjecture

[NoRéN]

wow, that's stupid.

[Gui_PT]

The Star Child predates the Reapers. He says he was created by a species. This is BEFORE the Reapers mind you. Then he reaperized his creators, against their will. So... if he's the collective minds of the Reapers, how did he make that first Reaper, against a species' will?

Oh wow :lol

Just thinking about that

[shagg_187]

So... what did extended cut "fixed"? I don't mind getting spoiled via black bars with a before/after scenario.

[Mister Wilhelm]

Watched all the endings.

They clarify things. They fix nothing.

It's all still a horribly illogical mess that destroys most of the main themes of the series.

I was actually shocked at how little additional content it all adds up to for 2 gigs. The endings are still very similar and the whole package felt rushed as hell for how much it was hyped.

[heliosRAzi]

So... what did extended cut "fixed"? I don't mind getting spoiled via black bars with a before/after scenario.

Why Joker left. Why some of your crew appeared on the Normandy even though you took them to the conduit. That the relays did not get destroyed by not showing them getting blown up. That the Normandy isn't stuck on the jungle planet.

[Tony Redgrave]

They are AI, not hybrids. And they are not bound to the cycle: the Leviathan of Dis proved that.

They are hybrids, they are synthetic organics hybrids, and their gestalt mind is composed of the minds of all processed members of it's origin species, as Legion tells you "they are more your future than ours", basically they are not synthetics nor organics but something in between. And please don't use unreleased DLC as evidence, since we still know next to nothing about it, the Leviathan might very well be the exception that confirms the rule.

There is absolutely no evidence that synthetics will wipe out all organic life. We have the geth who just want to be left alone. We have EDI who likes being part of the crew. What evidence does the Catalyst have? Nothing. If BW had shown instead of told that synthetics would wipe out all organic life and didn't even bring up the problem in the last few moments of the final game, we probably wouldn't have much of a problem. As it stands, there's no reason to believe that claim when we have cooperating synthetics by our sides. Besides, the galaxy is a pretty huge place: it'll be tough to wipe out every single organism in the galaxy.

It's only logical, EDI and the Geth are still infants in A.I. evolutionary terms, the Geth were already in their way to achieve technological singularity, synthetic life evolves fast and can become very dangerous, it's not a certainty but if a single A.I reaches the conclusion that organics must be destroyed and amasses enough power through time, the Reapers would look like Teddy Bears in comparison.

And there are (hypothetical) ways to purge the whole Galaxy, specially in the ME verse with FTL and Mass Relays, you just saw the Crucible affecting the whole Galaxy, imagine the Crucible wave had been pure destructive energy and scorched every planet of every system, or a Grey Goo scenario with the nanomachines moving freely through the Mass Relay network...there are many possible scenarios, it wares caution.

[Bisnic]

Why Joker left. Why some of your crew appeared on the Normandy even though you took them to the conduit. That the relays did not get destroyed by not showing them getting blown up. That the Normandy isn't stuck on the jungle planet.

Also more details for each endings and the StarChild also have more stuff to say to explain things.

[R_thanatos]

The Star Child predates the Reapers. He says he was created by a species. This is BEFORE the Reapers mind you. Then he reaperized his creators, against their will. So... if he's the collective minds of the Reapers, how did he make that first Reaper, against a species' will?

For every new thing there must be a start somewhere ..
it's the same thing when you ask : "is the egg or the chicken first ?"

The first reaper and the cycle design was his decision ...but as showed , if you manage enough ...if you have A SHEPARD it's enough for him to adapt and look for other means ... let's give the control to someone else...or maybe we're not needed anymore or let's make everyone understand each other even if they don't want to.

You can't tell me he can't adapt or is broken when he has changed his mind and gave you a choice.

[Patryn]

For every new thing there must be a start somewhere .. it's the same thing when you ask : "is the egg or the chicken first ?" The first reaper and the cycle design was his decision ...but as showed , if you manage enough ...if you have A SHEPARD it's enough for him to adapt and look for other means ... let's give the control to someone else...or maybe we're not needed anymore or let's make everyone understand each other even if they don't want to. You can't tell me he can't adapt or is broken when he has changed his mind and gave you a choice.

You dodged the point of you saying he's the collective minds of the species. He's an AI. A busted-ass AI forced to allow you to choose because of actions outside his control.

Hell, he indicates that he would have stopped the Crucible if he had realized it was so far developed.

[heliosRAzi]

They are hybrids, they are synthetic organics hybrids, and their gestalt mind is composed of the minds of all processed members of it's origin species, as Legion tells you "they are more your future than ours", basically they are not synthetics nor organics but something in between. And please don't use unreleased DLC as evidence, since we still know next to nothing about it, the Leviathan might very well be the exception that confirms the rule.

The Reapers are machines made from organic paste. It does not make them hybrids. They are synthetic.

It's only logical, EDI and the Geth are still infants in A.I. evolutionary terms, the Geth were already in their way to achieve technological singularity, synthetic life evolves fast and can become very dangerous, it's not a certainty but if a single A.I reaches the conclusion that organics must be destroyed and amasses enough power through time, the Reapers would look like Teddy Bears in comparison.

So because something can happen, we must wipe out all synthetics? That's some xenophobic reasoning there. It also goes against a theme in the games: second chances. We gave the krogan a second chance by curing the genophage. They could come around and destroy all sentient life in the galaxy. Will they? Don't know. But they should be given a fair chance.

And there are (hypothetical) ways to purge the whole Galaxy, specially in the ME verse with FTL and Mass Relays, you just saw the Crucible affecting the whole Galaxy, imagine the Crucible wave had been pure destructive energy and scorched every planet of every system, or a Grey Goo scenario with the nanomachines moving freely through the Mass Relay network...there are many possible scenarios, it wares caution.

It wares caution, but it doesn't mean we should commit genocide.

For every new thing there must be a start somewhere .. it's the same thing when you ask : "is the egg or the chicken first ?"

I thought it was proven that the egg came first.

[Tony Redgrave]

You dodged the point of you saying he's the collective minds of the species. He's an AI. A busted-ass AI forced to allow you to choose because of actions outside his control.

It is an A.I. construct that eventually integrated each Reapers' conscuiosness onto itself, it's not that hard to figure.

Hell, he indicates that he would have stopped the Crucible if he had realized it was so far developed.

Of course, it didn't know what it would do more that Hackett did, the variables changed only when it docked in the Citadel.

[Patryn]

It is an A.I. construct that eventually integrated each Reapers' conscuiosness onto itself, it's not that hard to figure.

Or it's just a busted-ass AI.

[Tony Redgrave]

The Reapers are machines made from organic paste. It does not make them hybrids. They are synthetic.

You either missed ME2 (which I doubt) or you are denying fact, they are a combination of organic and synthetic, EDI tells you so when you find the Human-Reaper larva, a superstructure emitting both organic and nor-organic energy signatures
, not only that but Legion tells you that all the minds of the processed people are in the Reaper, they compose it's mind. They looks more synthetic than organic but they are hybrids.

So because something can happen, we must wipe out all synthetics? That's some xenophobic reasoning there. It also goes against a theme in the games: second chances. We gave the krogan a second chance by curing the genophage. They could come around and destroy all sentient life in the galaxy. Will they? Don't know. But they should be given a fair chance.

I don't condone it, but I see the rational logic behind it, the Krogan cannot wipe all life in the Galaxy, and these are some big stakes here, specially having account (and I can't stress it enough) that the Reapers and the Catalyst are not bound by human morality, they don't operate in or ethic framework, xenophobia and genocide might not have the same meaning for them, if they even contemplate the concepts as relevant to begin with.

It wares caution, but it doesn't mean we should commit genocide.

Agreed.

Or it's just a busted-ass AI.

Define "busted".

[heliosRAzi]

The Evitable Conflict

In this respect, the Mass Effect series fails. Synthetic intelligences clearly pose a danger, but they are an ordinary hazard, a race like any other, that can be defeated or even made into an ally, or a lover. The player reaches the endgame without any sense that synthetics other than the Reapers themselves pose an insuperable threat, and so the explanation given for the Reapers’ behavior comes as an inexplicable and deflating surprise. Having drawn the idea that AI poses a threat to organic life from more compelling science fiction universes, Mass Effect undercuts that conceit by adopting an outlook that, if not exactly Asimovian in its optimism, supposes that AI and humans can at least coexist in peace and fruitful collaboration. The B-movie concept of killer robots can’t survive nuanced or mature examination, and its collapse makes this key theme one of Mass Effect’s weakest.

[JustinBB7]

In the original ending, all the relays were destroyed right? And they were not able to be repaired right? Because nobody (in the universe) knows how they were made and by who?

And in the new ending they suddenly can be repaired? Or am I mistaken somewhere.

[Darkmakaimura]

You either missed ME2 (which I doubt) or you are denying fact, they are a combination of organic and synthetic, EDI tells you so when you find the Human-Reaper larva, a superstructure emitting both organic and nor-organic energy signatures , not only that but Legion tells you that all the minds of the processed people are in the Reaper, they compose it's mind. They looks more synthetic than organic but they are hybrids.

Well, the "paste" could emit organic signatures perhaps but nothing looks organic about the Human Reaper when you see it. It does, in fact, appear to be human paste being turned into metallic materials.

As for Legion's dialogue, he says "Transcended flesh. Billions of organic minds uploaded and conjoined within immortal machine bodies. Each a nation."

He does not directly state that these are human minds and could be the minds of its creators. I believe it was implied in cut content, however.

Personally, I do believe that they are uploading human consciousness within the machines. It does make sense and makes the Reapers even more horrifying. The idea that they "eat your soul" so to speak.

BTW, has anyone seen the old concept art for the Human Reaper? It was so much better! It didn't look like a Terminator at all but some gooey pillar with pipes hanging from it. I wish they would have gone with that design instead.



That looks like an organic/machine hybrid!

Y U no go with this, Bioware!?

[heliosRAzi]

You either missed ME2 (which I doubt) or you are denying fact, they are a combination of organic and synthetic, EDI tells you so when you find the Human-Reaper larva, a superstructure emitting both organic and nor-organic energy signatures , not only that but Legion tells you that all the minds of the processed people are in the Reaper, they compose it's mind. They looks more synthetic than organic but they are hybrids.

The organic signatures is coming from the human paste. Like EDI said, they are a hybrid of organic and inorganic materials. The Big Dog robot mule that DARPA is developing is technically a hybrid of organic and inorganic materials. Doesn't make it a cyborg.

They are still AIs created by another AI.

[Tony Redgrave]

The Evitable Conflict

I agree, it was a poorly implemented idea, specially having account the game encourages organic-synthetic coexistence, but, being poor doesn't make it less relevant.

In the original ending, all the relays were destroyed right? And they were not able to be repaired right? Because nobody (in the universe) knows how they were made and by who? And in the new ending they suddenly can be repaired? Or am I mistaken somewhere.

Control and Synthesis now keep the Reapers around, controlled by Shepard and friendly respectively, so they can Repair them, control even shows Super-Shepard using the Reapers to repair a Relay, regarding Destroy it will presumably take longer to repair.

The organic signatures is coming from the human paste. Like EDI said, they are a hybrid of organic and inorganic materials. The Big Dog robot mule that DARPA is developing is technically a hybrid of organic and inorganic materials. Doesn't make it a cyborg. They are still AIs created by another AI.

You understand that the material the Reaper is made of is a mix of organic and inorganic right? it's not metal. I get it, maybe your image of an hybrid spaceship is more like Moya from Farscape, ok, but the Reapers, even if they look synthetic are still hybrids.

My point is that the games say one thing while the endings says the opposite without acknowledging the sudden change. It is worsened by the fact that you can't bring up EDI's and the geth's cooperation as counterpoints to its logic and that we do not see any evidence of synthetic life threatening to wipe out all life.

Yeah, I know, it's pretty bad. It works for me, but I'm a pretty avid sci-fi reader so I've got my fill of super A.I.'s trying to destroy (and save) the Galaxy, I can see it happening, but going just by the story as presented to us through the games, it's pretty much nosense.

[heliosRAzi]

I agree, it was a poorly implemented idea, specially having account the game encourages organic-synthetic coexistence, but, being poor doesn't make it less relevant.

My point is that the games say one thing while the endings says the opposite without acknowledging the sudden change. It is worsened by the fact that you can't bring up EDI's and the geth's cooperation as counterpoints to its logic and that we do not see any evidence of synthetic life threatening to wipe out all life.

[hateradio]

My point is that the games say one thing while the endings says the opposite without acknowledging the sudden change. It is worsened by the fact that you can't bring up EDI's and the geth's cooperation as counterpoints to its logic and that we do not see any evidence of synthetic life threatening to wipe out all life.

YOU DON"T NEED TO BELIEVE

[MisterAnderson]

My point is that the games say one thing while the endings says the opposite without acknowledging the sudden change. It is worsened by the fact that you can't bring up EDI's and the geth's cooperation as counterpoints to its logic and that we do not see any evidence of synthetic life threatening to wipe out all life.

While I agree it would have been nice to at least bring up that fact, it's pretty clear to me that the catalyst is talking in long term (millions - billions of years). Inevitably speaking, conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable despite whatever peace Shepard has brought upon the Quarians and Geth.

[heliosRAzi]

While I agree it would have been nice to at least bring up that fact, it's pretty clear to me that the catalyst is talking in long term (millions - billions of years). Inevitably speaking, conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable despite whatever peace Shepard has brought upon the Quarians and Geth.

I know that you agree, but there is nothing in the real world or in the ME universe that suggests this besides the ramblings of a busted-ass AI.

[Fudgepuppy]

I gotta say, that I sort of understand why they left some of the details out from the start, as the ending didn't flow as well now with all the added scenes and monologues.

Also, I kind of like the explanation now to the reapers. An ai creating a purpose and destroying its makers because that's how it interpreted their code.

It makes sense now when the whole stupid concept of "Synthetics-will-always-rebel" is a sort of "human error" that an ai simply carried out because that's what it was programmed to do.

Really nice of Bioware to do this for the fans, but still felt somewhat cheap. The images in the end showing the world rebuilding, would've been nice if they were in-game cinematics done without the monologue.

And also, what's the deal with them writing "Commander Shepard" on the memorial? How hard could it have been to have your chosen name? Would've given me shivers if I saw Miranda crying over losing me while putting up a plaque saying "Spencer Shepard".

Though, I'm still generally satisfied.

[Sajuuk]

why worry about ai rebeling and threating the galaxy ever again? now the galaxy have the a new solution "the crucible solution" if a ai goes out of control just fire the crucible again. way better than the reaper solution thats for sure.

[APZonerunner]

Now that the DLC has addressed *some* of of the complaints of the original (examples: same ending different colors, all negative, no option to reject all choices, some unexplained events like party members in space), what is the giant mess that makes no sense in ME3's ending? I'm genuinely curious. To Recap the ending of ME3: So we have this space baby that comes out of nowhere. Only he doesn't. He is a construct (catalyst) of the citadel that is overseeing the reaper invasion. His physical manifestation has adapted from someone in Shepard's memory to seem familiar and non threatening. He appears to Shepard in order to explain that the he was designed by an original alien race to orchestrate peace beteween mechas and orgas. It never worked so the catalyst developed a system of balance to preserve advanced civilizations, organic & synthetic, from their annihilation. It does this by absorbing a representative quantity into the collective, wiping out the rest, waiting for the next advance civilizations to evolve, rinse & repeat. So he appears to Shepard because with the crucible, and the modifications made to it, no other civilization has ever come so close to stopping this reaper system until now. With this the catalyst decides that its solution is no longer effective. He offers the player a choice: Synthesis, Destruction, Control. The forth option rejects the catalyst, the cycle continues and lets the next civilizations try again. So I ask this because I don't remember the first two games well enough, how does this conflict with the original themes and reaper ideas? What is the illogical mess? You could argue that the catalyst is stupid and illogical but that doesn't make the story illogical, only that you were, in the end, fighting a rogue AI (which even the original race lost to).

In ME1 the Reapers are merely threatening. Sovereign spouts stuff like "You exist because we allow it" and "We are your salvation" and really ultimately explains nothing other than that they're coming to kill everything. It's also revealed that they've done it several times before. Indoctrinated Saren argues that by surrendering to the Reapers they may spare some people as slaves, which is why he does what he does (other than indoctrination.)

In ME2 it's revealed that the Reapers were big on experimenting with the dominant race of each cycle in particular with the Protheans/Collectors. Given the context of the stuff the Catalyst says plus the Human Reaper, it's pretty clear the reason they were doing this was to create a Reaper from each race. It's never really said if they succeeded in creating a Prothean Reaper, just that the numbers they experimented on ended up becoming the Collectors over time. Presumably, like the keepers, a section of each race was kept aside to be turned into slaves to wait it out until the next cycle and aid in creating the next Reaper. Bioware have said the insect-like Reaper look is an outer armor/shell, and that inside they presumably look like the species they're made from.

I think all this fits with the logic presented by the Catalyst at the end of ME3 fine.

The thing people take issue with is the idea that Organics and Synthetics clashing is inevitable. The game makes the argument with a very flippant hand wave, which is a shame.

One of the greatest arguments for this theory is in DLC - as Javik (The Prothean) joins the Normandy throughout the game he reviews your files. Through conversations with Tali, Liara and others, it's revealed that his cycle was almost exactly like yours; there was a Saren figure who was indoctrinated and led a coup which let the Reapers in through the Citadel.

There was a race, the Zha'til, who were the equivalent of the Geth, killed their creators etc etc. Javik in general makes a compelling argument - based on experience - for the death of Synthetics.

Javik on the Geth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfF3PalT89g
Javik on EDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZnWyCVWyCk

Shame this was DLC. All of Javik's opinions really color ME3's story and cast them in an interesting light.

[exYle]

And also, what's the deal with them writing "Commander Shepard" on the memorial? How hard could it have been to have your chosen name? Would've given me shivers if I saw Miranda crying over losing me while putting up a plaque saying "Spencer Shepard".

Probably to avoid having to render "Tittyfuck Shepard"

[Khold]

Hey guys.

Just downloaded the Extended Cut. During my first run of the game I made sure to have my EMS above 4000 to see the full "Destroy" ending. However I haven't played in awhile so now it's down to 3589. Will I want to increase it again before beating it again or is the bonus 5 seconds still the only thing for 4000+?

[Rufus]

While I agree it would have been nice to at least bring up that fact, it's pretty clear to me that the catalyst is talking in long term (millions - billions of years). Inevitably speaking, conflict between organics and synthetics is inevitable despite whatever peace Shepard has brought upon the Quarians and Geth.

All it needed to say was that it was statistically insignificant. Still doesn't make his solution any less idiotic, seeing as how he could have set up an emergency system, instead of creating giant monstrosities to 'harvest' advanced civilizations, complete with honey trap (the Citadel) and everything. Why not deal with the synthetics instead? Another question one might think to bring up when confronted with Star Kid's shit reasoning.

The whole synthetics vs organics crap is Bioware wrangling with the fact that they (thought they) needed a reason for the Reapers' existence. Shame they didn't go all the way to make the one they came up with watertight, especially in light of the fact that it is a jarring departure. They try their damnedest, in the very same game, to humanize both EDI and the Geth, the latter of which they make appear about as harmless and non-aggressive as they can (just defending themselves, exiled themselves to the edge of the Galaxy after their uprising, they tended to Rannoch in the Quarian's absence, the ones that followed Sovereign were 'heretics' or manipulated) only to then turn around and say that conflict is inevitable, yadda yadda.

I need to stay away from these threads. The cycle continues.

[Pie Lord]

Hey guys. Just downloaded the Extended Cut. During my first run of the game I made sure to have my EMS above 4000 to see the full "Destroy" ending. However I haven't played in awhile so now it's down to 3589. Will I want to increase it again before beating it again or is the bonus 5 seconds still the only thing for 4000+?

The EMS required for the best ending has been lowered from 4000 to 3100.

[Khold]

The EMS required for the best ending has been lowered from 4000 to 3100.

Cool, thanks. I like the multiplayer but not XBL Gold right now so that would suck

Sweet.

[heliosRAzi]

One of the greatest arguments for this theory is in DLC - as Javik (The Prothean) joins the Normandy throughout the game he reviews your files. Through conversations with Tali, Liara and others, it's revealed that his cycle was almost exactly like yours; there was a Saren figure who was indoctrinated and led a coup which let the Reapers in through the Citadel. There was a race, the Zha'til, who were the equivalent of the Geth, killed their creators etc etc. Javik in general makes a compelling argument - based on experience - for the death of Synthetics. Javik on the Geth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfF3PalT89g Javik on EDI: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZnWyCVWyCk Shame this was DLC. All of Javik's opinions really color ME3's story and cast them in an interesting light.

The Protheans were a race of imperial assholes. It's easy to argue that the Protheans tried to dominate the Zha'til and they said fuck you and thus began the Prothean-Zha'til war

[SilentProtagonist]

All it needed to say was that it was statistically insignificant. Still doesn't make his solution any less idiotic, seeing as how he could have set up an emergency system, instead of creating giant monstrosities to 'harvest' advanced civilizations, complete with honey trap (the Citadel) and everything. Why not deal with the synthetics instead? Another question one might think to bring up when confronted with Star Kid's shit reasoning. The whole synthetics vs organics crap is Bioware wrangling with the fact that they (thought they) needed a reason for the Reapers' existence. Shame they didn't go all the way to make the one they came up with watertight, especially in light of the fact that it is a jarring departure. They try their damnedest, in the very same game, to humanize both EDI and the Geth, the latter of which they make appear about as harmless and non-aggressive as they can (just defending themselves, exiled themselves to the edge of the Galaxy after their uprising, they tended to Rannoch in the Quarian's absence, the ones that followed Sovereign were 'heretics' or manipulated) only to then turn around and say that conflict is inevitable, yadda yadda. I need to stay away from these threads. The cycle continues.

If you keep posting in Mass Effect threads, the cycle will continue.
But there are options.

You can get yourself banned from Neogaf, thus ending your desire to enter Mass Effect threads.

You can become a Mod, and rule over the forum, deleting threads as you wish.

There is one more option...
You combine your thoughts and opinions with others on the forum thus creating a 'conversation' that can be shared by all.

[APZonerunner]

The Protheans were a race of imperial assholes. It's easy to argue that the Protheans tried to dominate the Zha'til and they said fuck you and thus began the Prothean-Zha'til war

The Zha'til weren't the Prothean's creation. It was another race. He names them, but I forget what they were called. Their world was dying, and they started putting AI-controlled implants inside themselves in order to survive. Almost like the Quarian envirosuits but AI powered. The AIs started taking control of the physical form via the implants until there was nothing organic left to speak of, and those without implants fought them to the death.

The Protheans were just mopping up the remains.