[The Abominable Snowman]

I recently had a sit down with my bosses, who wanted to personally let me know that they're in the process of outsourcing a huge percent of our IT staff and tech support staff over to vendors in India and Uruguay. He insisted that it would take at least 6 months for the transition to begin, and wanted to secretly let me know that he can't afford to lose any employees in the meantime by telling everyone and scaring all our employees out. We're already hugely understaffed, and barely meeting our output goals which have raised due to us being so severely understaffed.

Well, I have a blabbermouth, and so do the others the managers told, and basically everyone knows now, so people have been leaving somewhat en masse, quitting this job for stable employment. We lost several of our best workers.

I also began searching for new employment, but being in the tech support/IT industry, it seems like everything is going into contracting for short term employment, 3-12 months, or being farmed out to other vendors in the US or abroad. I called my old company, and they shorted the amount of workforce in the building to 1/4th and are outsourcing, and not hiring.

I still have 4 or so months (End of October) to make a decision on where to go or what to do, but I've never been so upset at this company. I've been here a year and I've never been put in this predicament. It pisses me off at how a company as large as mine in the US could piss away so many jobs to foreigners (His big like was "We'd save over 2 million on our bottom line) and still give my immediate boss a $250K annual bonus for doing literally nothing but maintaining.

All the jobs in my area and field that seem as if they cant be outsourced pay way below what I make now, and it's just really shitty corporations can do this. Why is there no protection for us in the Tech Support industry for our jobs in the mainland? If theres no job in my field that's safe from this, why offer the training here?

[Metroid Hunter]

It this... Microsoft?

[wormstrangler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bam1cBQ2jlQ

[soultron]

See if you can get more certifications? Look into braining up in another area of IT that's less prone to outsourcing?

I don't know what to tell you, to be honest.

[Darkkn]

Look into braining up in another area of IT that's less prone to outsourcing?

Is there such areas in IT?

[BigDug13]

This is what scares me about pursuing a career in IT. Almost all of it can be outsourced. I guess keeping my clearance up and sticking to DOD IT jobs that can be outsourced can work, for now. How long until our DOD can't afford to keep going on its current path?

I speak English really well and have no accent. Maybe I should pursue a career teaching that. No one in China or India can do it, or anywhere else for that matter.

[RJT]

Why are american jobs more important than uruguayans?

[BigDug13]

Is there such areas in IT?

Only in areas of the government that requires security clearances. Won't have to worry about that getting outsourced.

[DataStream]

If you have enough experience, start working as a consultant. It will take time to build your base but you will earn lots of money and be in control of your future. You likely could find a firm that does this as well and get decent pay.

It is going to dramatically shift in the next 10 years and outsourcing will be the norm as things move to the cloud and administration is greatly simplified.

[BigNastyCurve]

You wouldn't believe the cost savings you can achieve by outsourcing. Well, maybe you would.

[Krogan]

You have 4 months notice and your upset...

[Weenerz]

Why are american jobs more important than uruguayans?

American company, American jobs I guess.

[BigDug13]

You have 4 months notice and your upset...

If my entire industry was drying up in my country, I would be upset too.

[demon]

Time to move to India.

[BobLoblaw]

I still have 4 or so months (End of October) to make a decision on where to go or what to do, but I've never been so upset at this company. I've been here a year and I've never been put in this predicament. It pisses me off at how a company as large as mine in the US could piss away so many jobs to foreigners (His big like was "We'd save over 2 million on our bottom line) and still give my immediate boss a $250K annual bonus for doing literally nothing but maintaining.

This is what pisses me off the most. Rather than keeping Americans employed, companies choose to pay lower wages to people in some developing company and what they end up saving usually goes to the executives for coming up with the idea to layoff American workers. Ugh. Capitalism...you really piss me off sometimes.

[SpinningBirdKick]

If you're doing bog standard IT development work you're always going to be at risk from outsourcing.

To be in a special position, you have to do or offer something special.

If you can't do that, get used to being screwed over as you won't be able to compete with Eastern European development prices.

[The Power Of Snap]

I think half the jobs will dissapear in 5 years in IT with all the cloud, apps and other services outsourcing.

Who needs dba's, security guys and exchange admins when all your stuff is on google apps?

I'm working for a software company and i'm the only sys admin. We have everything on amazon and google apps and it's working fine.

I still do the dba stuff and tech support...

[ronito]

I feel for you man. There's droves of guys and gals just like you out there.
For what it's worth I've been doing IT for almost 15 years and I've seen tons of companies try outsourcing. Tons. And of those I can count on one hand the companies that actually saved money on outsourcing. And I'd still have fingers left for counting.

[Suikoguy]

I feel for you man. There's droves of guys and gals just like you out there. For what it's worth I've been doing IT for almost 15 years and I've seen tons of companies try outsourcing. Tons. And of those I can count on one hand the companies that actually saved money on outsourcing. And I'd still have fingers left for counting.

Yeah, there are lots of hidden costs, sure it looks good on paper but...

For my degree I chose Computer Information Systems, as I determined communication and having a basic understanding of business would be a plus to go along with technical knowledge.
Being able to translate what a business wants to something that works AND is what they want is key.

[milanbaros]

This is what pisses me off the most. Rather than keeping Americans employed, companies choose to pay lower wages to people in some developing company and what they end up saving usually goes to the executives for coming up with the idea to layoff American workers. Ugh. Capitalism...you really piss me off sometimes.

Hypothetical situation: A US based company could save $1m and receive exactly the same service. Do they not have a duty to do this on behalf of their owners/shareholders? Why are American jobs any more important than Indian jobs?

This isn't exactly like that because I'm sure the service will be different but that could be accounted for.

[Suikoguy]

Hypothetical situation: A US based company could save $1m and receive exactly the same service. Do they not have a duty to do this on behalf of their owners/shareholders? Why are American jobs any more important than Indian jobs?

Because the money you pay them goes back into the local economy, where you live.

[Mr Swine]

Because the money you pay them goes back into the local economy, where you live.

But companies don't care about that. Where they can save money and get similar job performances are a huge gain for companies like this.

[ronito]

Yeah, there are lots of hidden costs, sure it looks good on paper but... For my degree I chose Computer Information Systems, as I determined communication and having a basic understanding of business would be a plus to go along with technical knowledge. Being able to translate what a business wants to something that works AND is what they want is key.

This man speaks truth!!!

If you don't want to be outsourced learn how businesses run and how to communicate that and technology in ways people can understand. THAT can't be outsourced and is pretty damned rare.

[BigNastyCurve]

I think half the jobs will dissapear in 5 years in IT with all the cloud, apps and other services outsourcing. Who needs dba's, security guys and exchange admins when all your stuff is on google apps? I'm working for a software company and i'm the only sys admin. We have everything on amazon and google apps and it's working fine. I still do the dba stuff and tech support...

Software is only going to grow. Where (geographically) is the question.

[ronito]

Hypothetical situation: A US based company could save $1m and receive exactly the same service. Do they not have a duty to do this on behalf of their owners/shareholders? Why are American jobs any more important than Indian jobs? This isn't exactly like that because I'm sure the service will be different but that could be accounted for.

That depends on how you're estimating the $1m.

EXACT same service? I highly doubt that, in fact I've hardly ever seen it.
Further there's the costs of beefing up the network/Lost time due to timezone/communications/higher turn over.

Everyone always looks at the basic costs and then ignore all the other "collateral costs" that take place.

[Kalnos]

Curious, what exactly did you do? 'IT' is rather broad.

[xbhaskarx]

It pisses me off at how a company as large as mine in the US could piss away so many jobs to foreigners (His big like was "We'd save over 2 million on our bottom line)

Do you think companies should only hire workers in the country they're from?
Do American workers deserve those jobs more than foreign workers, and if so, why?
What if a US company refused to outsource based on some "keep jobs at home" principle, were driven out of business by foreign companies that could do the same thing at a lower cost, and those foreign companies also abide by the same "keep jobs at home" principle?
Would you be just as pissed off if foreign companies hired US workers?

[Karsticles]

Why are american jobs more important than uruguayans?

Because I can't understand what the heck the people these jobs get outsourced to are saying half the time, and not just half, but every time, they don't know what the heck I'm saying. Having non-English speaking tech support is a nightmare unless your problem is "I don't know how to turn my computer on". I have absolutely nothing against the people from those countries. I just want to be able to resolve my tech support problems smoothly and quickly, which requires that the problem is understood.

[gatti-man]

It field has been shrinking for years. I know people that lost their jobs and essentially their lives to outsourcing and are no longer in the industry. This was 5 years ago. My advice is to move into a different field or specialize.

[ronito]

Do you think companies should only hire workers in the country they're from? Do American workers deserve those jobs more than foreign workers, and if so, why? What if a US company refused to outsource based on some "keep jobs at home" principle, were driven out of business by foreign companies that could do the same thing at a lower cost, and those foreign companies also abide by the same "keep jobs at home" principle? Would you be just as pissed off if foreign companies hired US workers?

But if you just go off of money globalization is a race to the bottom.
I mean it's not a theory it's happening now.

First India was hot. Now that brought up salaries in India.
Then India started getting to expensive so now Singapore/China's the rage.
But now there costs are starting to grow.
So now companies are scouting the Fillipines.

The question should really be about what you want as a company out of a position. Just someone to answer the damn phone? Sure, play the globalization race. You should, it'll save you money.

Are you looking for leaders for your departments and more dedication? Longer term vision? Outsourcing isn't great for that.

[milanbaros]

That depends on how you're estimating the $1m. EXACT same service? I highly doubt that, in fact I've hardly ever seen it. Further there's the costs of beefing up the network/Lost time due to timezone/communications/higher turn over. Everyone always looks at the basic costs and then ignore all the other "collateral costs" that take place.

Its just a story but e.g. $50m employee salary savings, $50m savings on rent, benefits etc, $99m lost through costs of beefing up the network/Lost time due to timezone/communications/higher turn over.

[xbhaskarx]

^ How do you respond to someone who replies to a "hypothetical situation" with "I highly doubt that"....

But if you just go off of money globalization is a race to the bottom. I mean it's not a theory it's happening now. First India was hot. Now that brought up salaries in India. Then India started getting to expensive so now Singapore/China's the rage. But now there costs are starting to grow. So now companies are scouting the Fillipines.

So workers in developing countries are earning far more now than they did prior to globalization and outsourcing. How is that a "race to the bottom"? It's not like rising salaries have killed off economic growth in places like India and China, they still have some of the highest GDP growth rates in the world (2011: 7.8% in India, 9.2% in China)... Singapore's GDP per capita is $59,900 which is 5th highest in the world, with 5% growth in 2011.

[oneils]

I thought you were going to tell us that you outsourced other peoples' jobs for a living.

Sucks to hear that it is happening to you. Good luck.

[ronito]

So workers in developing countries are earning far more now than they did prior to globalization and outsourcing. How is that a "race to the bottom"? It's not like rising salaries have killed off economic growth in places like India and China, they still have some of the highest GDP growth rates in the world...

That's nice.
Account for the growth but not the shrinkage after the jobs leave for a cheaper place.

[EricM85]

I don't know if you'd be interested in going back to school at all, but look into getting a MAcc and qualifying for a CPA. There's a lot of demand for people with a technology and accounting background (willing to work 55+ hour weeks).

[Imbarkus]

Unless you are raising a family who cannot do without your benefits, you may do well to entertain the idea of embracing the contract worker economy. I've known quite a few guys in various areas of I.T. and development who can command an outrageous rate for what they do.

Certainly you give up some security about knowing where your next buck is coming from, but you know as well as anyone right now, that security is an illusion anyway. Make the right contacts and you can literally be your own boss and name your own hours, clients, and jobs.

Form a LLC, put yourself on your own salary, and screw the man. If I only had myself to cover for health insurance, I'd do it. I loved negotiating rates, working remotely from home, travelling, having my time based on projects instead of wasted on...maintenance.

Something to think about.

[The Technomancer]

Don't worry, as soon as they lower taxes on your employers that will encourage them to start hiring inside the country again.

I still have never heard a good explanation for the mechanism by which this is supposed to happen

[The Abominable Snowman]

Do you think companies should only hire workers in the country they're from?

Not 100% of the time, but when a HUGE US COMPANY is literally shaving off their entire IT arm, ignoring the fact that all of their operations are done via computing and terminal work, and shifting these jobs overseas while the CEOs, "Managers", and "director"s sit over here collecting bonuses with the money they saved shipping overseas there is definitely a problem. Moreso because when he was detailing his worst case scenario, which is having to hire 2-3XMORE overseas workers because they arent as fast or efficient as US workers, the plan would actually LOSE much more money than the plan is worth, but it's worth the risk in his opinion, because at least temporarily the cuts to budget would be massive.

Do American workers deserve those jobs more than foreign workers, and if so, why?

Because when you have Americans dealing with Americans on multiple levels, things go a bit smoother. Having a tech team divvied up between California, My location (east Coast) India, Uruguay, Sacajawea and Mulan, as it is now, leads to the most extreme headache you can imagine, with the meeting of people who dont understand each other functionally, reporting whats broken on the website to have it be misunderstood and something else "Fixed", time scheduling being delayed or cancelled leading to more shitty circumstances for both us American employees and ESPECIALLY the customers. They're going to efface the East Coast team, and soon enough the West Coast team. A lot of our time is spent translating the babel-english, correcting misunderstandings and rescheduling because a team lead, Patel, didnt wake up on time or misunderstood the time. Imagine the outcome, if you will.

What if a US company refused to outsource based on some "keep jobs at home" principle, were driven out of business by foreign companies that could do the same thing at a lower cost, and those foreign companies also abide by the same "keep jobs at home" principle?

Well, if it's a consumer driven experience, I don't quite see that happening, IMO

Would you be just as pissed off if foreign companies hired US workers?

They Don't.

[epmode]

Outsource-GAF is a creepy place.

[xbhaskarx]

Would you be just as pissed off if foreign companies hired US workers? They Don't.

Really? So to pick a handful of foreign companies from various countries as an example... Sony, Samsung, SAP, Toyota, Nestle, and GlaxoSmithKline all have ZERO employees in the United States?

U.S. subsidiaries of global companies employ 5.6 million Americans, support an annual payroll of $408.5 billion, invest heavily in the American manufacturing sector and account for more than 18% of all U.S. exports, or $232.4 billion. ... EADS North America: The U.S. operations of Netherlands-based global aerospace and defense giant EADS supports more than 200,000 American jobs coast to coast. Sodexo, Inc.: French-based food workers and facilities management company employs 110,000 American workers. BAE Systems: British defense and aerospace company employs over 45,000 workers across the country. Nestle USA: Switzerland-based Nestlé operates 82 U.S. factories and employs over 42,000 American workers. T-Mobile USA: German wireless services provider, owned by Deutsche Telekom, employs 41,000 Americans. Thomson Reuters: Information company, 53% Canadian-owned, employs 26,000 Americans. Sony Corporation of America: Japanese electronics firm has 15,000 American employees. BASF Corporation: The largest chemical company in the world is headquartered in Germany and has 15,000 American workers. Volvo Group North America: Swedish car company has over 10,000 American workers.

[SyNapSe]

but it's worth the risk in his opinion, because at least temporarily the cuts to budget would be massive.

and he'll update his resume with said incredible improvement and be out the door to a higher position before reality sets in.

[The Abominable Snowman]

Really? So to pick a handful of foreign companies from various countries as an example... Sony, Samsung, SAP, Nestle, and GlaxoSmithKline have zero employees in the United States?

They all have American arms, not outsourcing as it is in my case.

The home base of my company will remain in the US, they also have a European base and a Canadian base of operations. However, they are contracted with a bunch of contracting firms outside of our company, who hire from their areas. Say if Sony stayed itself in Japan and contacted a vendor named "Johnson's Jobs" in the US to hire marketing and IT staff to work on Sony products and support out of a shared or rented building. That's what I'm dealing with.

[FieryBalrog]

Hypothetical situation: A US based company could save $1m and receive exactly the same service. Do they not have a duty to do this on behalf of their owners/shareholders? Why are American jobs any more important than Indian jobs? This isn't exactly like that because I'm sure the service will be different but that could be accounted for.

expect some racist answers about quality of Indian/Uruguayan workers

They all have American arms, not outsourcing as it is in my case.

and the difference is...

[Fusebox]

Your company is outsourcing. Your job is being outsourced.

[FStop7]

Is there such areas in IT?

Yes. You can find them at companies that are pulling their IT departments back in house after realizing what a mistake they made in attempting to outsource. That's where I've found a lot of great work.

Hypothetical situation: A US based company could save $1m and receive exactly the same service. Do they not have a duty to do this on behalf of their owners/shareholders? Why are American jobs any more important than Indian jobs? This isn't exactly like that because I'm sure the service will be different but that could be accounted for.

The "receive exactly the same service" part happens so rarely. And it has zero to do with geography or whether the outsourced jobs go to India or whatever. I've seen outsourcing nightmares in which the jobs were outsourced to entirely North American based teams. It has to do with knowledge of the company, commitment, understanding of who's who, and a myriad of other things that you can't duplicate without having people who are on site, in the mix day in and day out. People who knows the personalities, details, etc. I've seriously been through this like 5 times now, where a company has outsourced its IT department to EDS, or IBM, or HP, or Unisys, or Cap Gemini, and then after 2 years of frustration they bring it all back in.

[darthbob]

Outsource-GAF is a creepy place.

Hells yeah it is.

Been working for an outsourcer for over a year now. Glad to be in the U.S. though.

[Dreams-Visions]

Best of luck, OP.

[mescalineeyes]

Some mod please change the title to more accurately reflect the OPs job, which is not to outsource.

Coming in here I thought I was going to read the confessions of a cold-hearted manager outsourcing branches and raising profits and shit; when in reality :((((((((

[ronito]

expect some racist answers about quality of Indian/Uruguayan workers

You can never say anything about the quality of work from any worker in a different country ever.

[xbhaskarx]

They all have American arms, not outsourcing as it is in my case.

and the difference is...

?